The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

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Ronald Nolette

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This is not a term I’ve heard before but it seems this is not the term thought translations use. Certainly, you use it as a pejorative.

No it is a legitimate term used to describe most of the modern English translations of Scripture.

What is dynamic equivalence in Bible translation ...
Apr 26, 2021 · Dynamic equivalence is a method of Bible translation that seeks to reproduce the original text of Scripture using modern language and expression to communicate the message of the Bible. In translating a verse, dynamic equivalent translation is less concerned with providing an exact English word for each word of the original text as it is with communicating the basic message of that verse.


The biigest problem is not usaing a more modern term for say denarii ( a days wage) but the thought concepts without due diligence to how words and phrases were used in the bible times. Nor the nuances found in the endings and construct in the Greek that is not found anywhere near as much in English.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Wow! Frankly, you seem blind to what is involved in translation, focusing exclusively on the FROM aspect.

What it translates TO is more what I rely on translations for. Otherwise, I would not rely on any translation but read in the original languages myself.

If they are faithful in translating the from to the to I agree! But many Bible editors fail in this. If one cannot faithfully transcribe thoughts and intenets accurately, it matters not how prosaic their work is- it is a faulty translation.
 

Ronald Nolette

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We disagree on what is the authority of ‘original intent’ as it pertains TO the language we speak today.

And that is sad. God inspired the original writers, not the editors! With this philosophy, how can you say the New World Translation is a terrible bible that should not be used?
 

Wrangler

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No it is a legitimate term used to describe most of the modern English translations of Scripture.

Again, wow! In our age of self-identity, it is considered in bad form and not too humble to use language to identify people in terms other than the ones who so self-identify.

It is name calling what you are doing, plain and simple.

Calling name calling ‘legitimate’ is doubling down.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Again, wow! In our age of self-identity, it is considered in bad form and not too humble to use language to identify people in terms other than the ones who so self-identify.

It is name calling what you are doing, plain and simple.

Calling name calling ‘legitimate’ is doubling down.


How so? by simply using the term that others coined to describe what they do? It is not name calling, it is simply repeating what form of "scholarship" in translating is done. Even dynamic equivalent bibles call themselves that! So if I say what they themselves say, about themselves I am name calling? My turn to say WOW!

BTW dynamic equicalen ttranslators so self identify. And Self identify has become a morass of false things in this godless society.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Wow! Stunning arrogance. Who are you to say others are unfaithful?



Anyone who studies. If yu wish I can list all my "credentials". But anyone with internet access, can study an English bible and by using the toold freely available can tell if the English translationw as faithful to the originals or not! It is not hard. It just takes diligence and study.
 

Ronald Nolette

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What makes you say I say this? What post of mine leads you to conclude this is my opinion of this translation?

Well then let me ask. Do you believe the New world Translation of the Scriptures written and edited by the Watchtower bible and Tract Society, is a faithful English translation of the original Greek and Hebrew? Yes or no is all that is needed.
 

Wrangler

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Well then let me ask. Do you believe the New world Translation of the Scriptures written and edited by the Watchtower bible and Tract Society, is a faithful English translation of the original Greek and Hebrew? Yes or no is all that is needed.
There are many translations I’ve never read and have no opinion on. This is one.

it is revealing that you focus on putting some down rather than lifting others up.
 

Kermos

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@Wrangler and @Pearl,

This post shows one among the many scriptural points that prove Lord Jesus says "you" to all His disciples in all time during the supper recorded in John chapters 13 to 17, including when He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Lord Jesus Prophesies And Declares The Holy Spirit Indwelling Believers In Jesus Thus "You" In John 14-17 Includes All Believers In Jesus In All Time

In John chapter 14, John chapter 15, and John chapter 16 Jesus explicitly promises the Holy Spirit. For example, He said "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17).

When the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples of Jesus at Pentecost, there were about 120 persons present according to the next two sets of passages:

"Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James. These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers. At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said" (Acts 1:12-15)

"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance." (Acts 2:1-4)​

One hundred twenty people is more than eleven Apostles; therefore, the Lord Jesus was talking to all His disciples of all time when Jesus said "you" with reference to the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17) and He said "you" with reference to God's exclusive ability to choose men and men's inability to choose God (John 15:16) as recorded by the Apostle John.

CRUCIAL POINT: The Holy Spirit, The Apostle Peter, The Gentiles Cornelius And All His Household, And Lord Jesus Saying "You"

Cornelius is of crucial import to this topic for among the places that we find fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is when Gentiles at Cornelius' place were filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:44).

At a time after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter recounted to the apostles and brethren about the Gentiles Cornelius with his relatives and his close friends, and the account Peter shared of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit with being saved illuminated that not just Jews would be saved but also Gentiles would be saved (Acts 11:1-18).

At that time, Peter said to the apostles and brethren "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit'" (Acts 11:16).

Prior to the time of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Lord Jesus said "John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5) to the apostles whom Jesus gathered togather (Acts 1:4) which included Peter, and Jesus says "you" right here - with the apostles present right there, Jesus says "you".

Later after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4), Peter remembered Lord Jesus saying "you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit" and there is the word "you" (Acts 11:16) which Peter tied to the Gentiles Cornelius with all his household (Acts 11:14); furthermore, Peter tied when Lord Jesus says "you" to all believers in all time (Acts 11:17)!

Thus, the fulfillment of the Word of God's promise of the Holy Spirit is more than the 11 Apostles, and includes not just the Jews but also the Gentiles because of Cornelius, and our Lord Jesus saying "you" to the disciples includes all disciples in all time.

Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) to all His own disciples (John 10:27-29) in all time

Related post 1: more disciples present at supper

Related post 2: Free-willian's Claim To Superiority Over The Apostles

Related post 3: The Friend Of Jesus (John 15:15) Is Exclusively Chosen By Jesus (John 15:16)

Related post 4: Lord Jesus says "what I say to you I say to all" believers in Jesus Mark 13:37)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Exactly right! Pro-Life is the term of the proponents. Anti-Choice is the term of the opponents. Same with the term you use.

Wrong it is the term used by the very people who use dynamic equivalent. Proponents coined the term. You should take the time to learn.

QUOTE="Wrangler, post: 1171394, member: 9929"]There are many translations I’ve never read and have no opinion on. This is one.

it is revealing that you focus on putting some down rather than lifting others up.[/QUOTE]

but I have read and studied through many and yet you feel free to judge me for making comment.
 

Wrangler

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Wrong it is the term used by the very people who use dynamic equivalent. Proponents coined the term. You should take the time to learn.

I’ll type this slowly so you can read it easier. The thought expression translations I’ve read do not use the pejorative term you do.

The idolatry of translations by people like you keep people from God. I know because I was a victim. For decades KJVism-only kept me from reading Scripture.

I have no desire to become literate in such obsolete, archaic, supposedly literal translations that you exempt from your contempt.
 

Wrangler

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I have read and studied through many and yet you feel free to judge me for making comment.

Absolutely, I judge you for your foolish ways. Knowledgeable, you assert but lacks wisdom.

There are millions of people like me. To paraphrase Jefferson, “If we had to go to God only through literal translations, we wouldn’t go.”
 

Ronald Nolette

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I’ll type this slowly so you can read it easier. The thought expression translations I’ve read do not use the pejorative term you do.

The idolatry of translations by people like you keep people from God. I know because I was a victim. For decades KJVism-only kept me from reading Scripture.

I have no desire to become literate in such obsolete, archaic, supposedly literal translations that you exempt from your contempt.

We are through then. You persist in your lies about me so I decide to end this.

Interesting as jefferson was not a believer and rejected the words of Christ in the gospels!

I hope you never call a bible as faulty then, for you will prove yourself the hyporcrite you accuse me of being.

dynamic eqwuivalent is not a perjorative term, if you would bother to stop being lazy and look it up!

We are done have th elast post if you wish.
 

Wrangler

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I hope you never call a bible as faulty then, for you will prove yourself the hyporcrite you accuse me of being.

There ya go! Setting me up to abide by your false standards. Just because a Bible embraces ‘dynamic equivalence’ does not make it faulty.

Not only do I reject your premise, I reject your pejorative use of terms.
 

Kermos

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It certainly does and Jesus affirms this in the very next verse; those who are not against us are for us. One cannot be FOR Jesus and not choose him.

Regarding *Luke 9:49-50,..

"in whose name" determines "to whose glory"


John said someone was casting out demons "in Jesus' name", specifically "in Your name"; in effect, John said the someone attributes the casting out of demons "to Jesus' glory".

You said that @Pearl chooses Jesus "in her autonomous free will", that is "in her name"; in effect, you said @Pearl attributes her choosing of Jesus "to @Pearl's glory".

"to whose glory" determines "who is for you"


Since John conveyed that the someone acted "to Jesus' glory", then Jesus replies this applies, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:49-50).

Since you conveyed that @Pearl acted "to @Pearl's glory", then Jesus replies not this applies, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you" (Luke 9:49-50).

* full text of Luke 9:49-50:

49 John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.”
50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”
(Luke 9:49-50)

Notice that Jesus did not say whether the someone was already/is/will become a disciple of Christ.

Since the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19), then Christ died ONLY for the disciples of Christ.
 

brightfame52

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In Jn 10:11,15 who does it specifically sate that Christ laid down His Life for ?

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.