But by prayer and fasting

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Nancy

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After Jesus cast the evil spirit out of the deaf and mute boy, He asked the father of the boy how long he was like this and his father said from youth. The Apostles could not drive this spirit out by only their faith but by prayer and fasting.

Has anyone ever wondered why this "kind" goes out ONLY with prayer and fasting?
Could it be that the longer a person is being controlled by an evil spirit the harder it is to cast them out?

Makes me wonder about folks coming to The Lord late in life with all those decades of living in the world and by the worlds dictates, there must be SOME residue left as, I've seen nobody in the church's "casting out devils". Newbies are basically left on their own, unless they are fortunate enough to find a Spirit filled bible believing Church with caring Christians - and that is NOT the norm, by far.
So, I guess what I'm getting at is there must be a whole lot of professing Christians who are still walking around with the "spirit of fear', the spirit of anger, lust, gossip,....on and on if they themselves never got prayed over by someone who has become prayed up and is fasting. Has this EVER happened to anyone?

Bottom line, DON'T WASTE TIME because TODAY is the day of salvation! The longer one holds off submitting to Him, the harder it will become when/if one actually does seek Him.

Hope this makes some kind of sense.
 

TLHKAJ

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Hi @Nancy, here is the word "kind" in the Greek.

Greek: γένος
Transliteration: genos
Pronunciation: ghen'-os
Definition: From G1096; kin (abstractly or concretely literally or figuratively individually or collectively): - born country (-man) diversity generation kind (-red) nation offspring stock.
KJV Usage: kind (5x), kindred (3x), offspring (3x), nation (2x), stock (2x), born (2x), diversity (1x), misc. (3x).
Occurs: 21
In verses: 21

I think this is in reference to their origin (stock), that these came from especially wicked fallen angel stock.
 
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bbyrd009

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So, I guess what I'm getting at is there must be a whole lot of professing Christians who are still walking around with the "spirit of fear', the spirit of anger, lust, gossip,....on and on if they themselves never got prayed over by someone who has become prayed up and is fasting
might it be the kid/professors who need to be in prayer and fasting? The passage seems ambiguous enough for that
 
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amadeus

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After Jesus cast the evil spirit out of the deaf and mute boy, He asked the father of the boy how long he was like this and his father said from youth. The Apostles could not drive this spirit out by only their faith but by prayer and fasting.

Has anyone ever wondered why this "kind" goes out ONLY with prayer and fasting?
Could it be that the longer a person is being controlled by an evil spirit the harder it is to cast them out?

Makes me wonder about folks coming to The Lord late in life with all those decades of living in the world and by the worlds dictates, there must be SOME residue left as, I've seen nobody in the church's "casting out devils". Newbies are basically left on their own, unless they are fortunate enough to find a Spirit filled bible believing Church with caring Christians - and that is NOT the norm, by far.
So, I guess what I'm getting at is there must be a whole lot of professing Christians who are still walking around with the "spirit of fear', the spirit of anger, lust, gossip,....on and on if they themselves never got prayed over by someone who has become prayed up and is fasting. Has this EVER happened to anyone?

Bottom line, DON'T WASTE TIME because TODAY is the day of salvation! The longer one holds off submitting to Him, the harder it will become when/if one actually does seek Him.

Hope this makes some kind of sense.
How great is our faith? How great is our unbelief?

"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Mark 9:23-24

"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you." Luke 17:5-6

Jesus did not really tell them how to increase their faith in that moment. Rather he told them how much faith was needed to perform even an impossible miracle. If we believe that God can do it AND we are in His will is anything impossible for us?

My old pastor's father, a full-blooded Chippewa from London, Ontario, Canada, was called the 'Indian healer' because he believed God but he only prayed for people's healing when he was in touch with God. Is there much teaching or preaching these days about real faith in God? This verse explains to us what faith is:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

How does one increase his faith? Consider the strength of a three-fold cord:

"Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?
And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." Ecc 4:9-12

See then the three things Jesus describes in Matthew 6 which I believe answer the question of how to increase one's faith:

1) Alms, 2) Prayer and 3) Fasting

1) Alms:
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly." Matt 6:1-4

2) Prayer:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." Matt 6:5-13

3) Fasting:
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly." Matt 6:16-18

...And then from Isaiah:

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?" Isaiah 58:6-7
 

Mayflower

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After Jesus cast the evil spirit out of the deaf and mute boy, He asked the father of the boy how long he was like this and his father said from youth. The Apostles could not drive this spirit out by only their faith but by prayer and fasting.

Has anyone ever wondered why this "kind" goes out ONLY with prayer and fasting?
Could it be that the longer a person is being controlled by an evil spirit the harder it is to cast them out?

Makes me wonder about folks coming to The Lord late in life with all those decades of living in the world and by the worlds dictates, there must be SOME residue left as, I've seen nobody in the church's "casting out devils". Newbies are basically left on their own, unless they are fortunate enough to find a Spirit filled bible believing Church with caring Christians - and that is NOT the norm, by far.
So, I guess what I'm getting at is there must be a whole lot of professing Christians who are still walking around with the "spirit of fear', the spirit of anger, lust, gossip,....on and on if they themselves never got prayed over by someone who has become prayed up and is fasting. Has this EVER happened to anyone?

Bottom line, DON'T WASTE TIME because TODAY is the day of salvation! The longer one holds off submitting to Him, the harder it will become when/if one actually does seek Him.

Hope this makes some kind of sense.

It does make sense. We all need Jesus, but a lot of us also need a Moses and to be a Moses in someone's life
 
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Mayflower

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"And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you." Luke 17:5-6

Jesus did not really tell them how to increase their faith in that moment. Rather he told them how much faith was needed to perform even an impossible miracle. If we believe that God can do it AND we are in His will is anything impossible for us?

And we just need a mustard seed of activated faith, because each of us are given a measure.

Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
 

TLHKAJ

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Hi @Nancy, here is the word "kind" in the Greek.

Greek: γένος
Transliteration: genos
Pronunciation: ghen'-os
Definition: From G1096; kin (abstractly or concretely literally or figuratively individually or collectively): - born country (-man) diversity generation kind (-red) nation offspring stock.
KJV Usage: kind (5x), kindred (3x), offspring (3x), nation (2x), stock (2x), born (2x), diversity (1x), misc. (3x).
Occurs: 21
In verses: 21

I think this is in reference to their origin (stock), that these came from especially wicked fallen angel stock.

@Nancy , what do you think about this? I strongly feel we have a clue here with the word "kind." It seems to indicate a spiritual stronghold based on types of demon (their origin, parentage, even). I believe this is related to hierarchy.
 
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David H.

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Newbies are basically left on their own, unless they are fortunate enough to find a Spirit filled bible believing Church with caring Christians - and that is NOT the norm, by far.

Newbies are not "left on their own", But are given the Holy Ghost, the comforter who gives them unction to overcome the evil in them and their surroundings. Although we all have residual baggage from our days of the flesh we are overcoming them daily By the guidance and working of the Holy Spirit in us.

As For demons being cast out, I have seen this at work in this world, and it is very real. Some go easily others require prayer and fasting. Wht this is a reference to is the Hold that demon has on the individual. That demon becomes a crutch to the one who has been possessed by them long term, to the point where the individual possessed is dependent on that demon.

One sure way to spot a false exorcist is to see by whom they are casting out demons. If they say things like "i Rebuke you" they are acting as the Sons of Sceva even if they are invoking the name of Jesus. The true exorcist knows it is Jesus in them that is doing the exorcizing and seek not their own glory as demon chasers. So for you to say you are not seeing this often is a good thing in the church, as a true saint who casts out demons will not draw attention to themselves for they know it is not themselves that casts out demons but the Spirit in us that empowers us.

Read 1 John 2:18-29
 
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TLHKAJ

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Acts 16:16-18
[16]And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
[17]The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
[18]And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
 
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Nancy

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@Nancy , what do you think about this? I strongly feel we have a clue here with the word "kind." It seems to indicate a spiritual stronghold based on types of demon (their origin, parentage, even). I believe this is related to hierarchy.
Me too sister. They are greater or lesser in strength I believe...?
And the longer it takes up residence, so to speak...the harder to evict certain ones, or at least thoroughly evict every iota?
I haven't watched the video yet, I'm sure it is a good one. xo
 
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Nancy

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"David H., post: 1171677, member: 9104"]Newbies are not "left on their own", But are given the Holy Ghost, the comforter who gives them unction to overcome the evil in them and their surroundings. Although we all have residual baggage from our days of the flesh we are overcoming them daily By the guidance and working of the Holy Spirit in us.

As For demons being cast out, I have seen this at work in this world, and it is very real. Some go easily others require prayer and fasting. Wht this is a reference to is the Hold that demon has on the individual. That demon becomes a crutch to the one who has been possessed by them long term, to the point where the individual possessed is dependent on that demon.

One sure way to spot a false exorcist is to see by whom they are casting out demons. If they say things like "i Rebuke you" they are acting as the Sons of Sceva even if they are invoking the name of Jesus. The true exorcist knows it is Jesus in them that is doing the exorcizing and seek not their own glory as demon chasers. So for you to say you are not seeing this often is a good thing in the church, as a true saint who casts out demons will not draw attention to themselves for they know it is not themselves that casts out demons but the Spirit in us that empowers us.

Read 1 John 2:18-29[/QUOTE]

Hello David,
Yes, maybe there are still church's around like that but it is still a truth that many people fall through the cracks. Especially with the larger places.

"That demon becomes a crutch to the one who has been possessed by them long term, to the point where the individual possessed is dependent on that demon."

This is more to what I was talking about. like, the longer someone has been entertaining certain spirits could make them stronger. Perhaps?
Thank you for the reply :)


 

Nancy

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The other day I thought I had something but I realized I was being oppressed from the outside and really focusing on who God is cleaned it up.

But I'm glad you brought this up, because I'm dealing with a person with intense anger and a feeling of unworthiness and I believe they are oppressed.

And I have done everything in my power to help from talking to prayer to worship. It gets worse.

It was so tormenting, I actually had to just leave and walk around town in the dark tonight, which probably was not safe where I live, but I was praying about this exact thing.

And I have noticed the closer I draw to God, the more that thing wants to destroy me.

Maybe fasting is the answer.

"The other day I thought I had something but I realized I was being oppressed from the outside and really focusing on who God is cleaned it up.

Yes, amen. "Look Up Child"! (u know the song...?) Once we can see the whole essence of a God so big, which I don't think we can, fully anyhow, it does help to put everything in perspective.

"But I'm glad you brought this up, because I'm dealing with a person with intense anger and a feeling of unworthiness and I believe they are oppressed.
And I have done everything in my power to help from talking to prayer to worship. It gets worse.
It was so tormenting, I actually had to just leave and walk around town in the dark tonight, which probably was not safe where I live, but I was praying about this exact thing."
It sounds like you did all you could for this person. Does this person act in anger toward you ever? Or is is more of a self hatred kind of thing?

And I have noticed the closer I draw to God, the more that thing wants to destroy me.

Oh I do agree with you Fluffy, the closer you draw to God, the angrier Satan becomes but then, the closer you draw unto Him, He too is drawing closer to you! :)

Maybe fasting is the answer.

Perhaps. I've not ever practiced this but would like to.
xo
 
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quietthinker

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So, I guess what I'm getting at is there must be a whole lot of professing Christians who are still walking around with the "spirit of fear', the spirit of anger, lust, gossip,....on and on
there were ten virgins.....and as you know, five were foolish
 

Rita

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I have often pondered this passage……it’s one of those experiences where I try and understand the context. Jesus had gone with a few of the disciples, leaving the others. Then those who have remained are challenged to do something…..but failed.
In the KJV it only says prayer , not fasting, as a means of healing the boy. We know that Jesus communicated with God and never just acting on his own ( prayer ) The disciples, I believe, did not include God but we’re trying to heal in their own strength. We know they didn’t have the Holy Spirit, and when they were sent out by Jesus he anointed them for that task, but it’s clear that there was so much they didn’t know or understand.
Jesus doesn’t fast , he heals the boy instantly.
Also in Luke it states that the boys father kneeled before the Lord and asks for mercy, but we don’t know how he approached the disciples earlier…….the father acknowledges, I believe, that only Jesus can help his son.

The actual boy couldn’t speak or hear, no communication abilities, he could not surrender for himself….in this case it was the father that had to surrender for him.

Also the religious leaders and the disciples were arguing ………so the whole atmosphere was negative, until Jesus returned ( was part of the equation again ) the crowd change its mood. ( have no idea if that is relevant but Jesus is quite indignant to some )

Also this clearly states that an evil spirit is the root of the problem, in so many cases we do not know that to be the case. Jesus speaks directly to the root cause, he knows the source of the problem.
I know from experience that it takes time to understand the real source of anger within, it always has a root.
So, we can pray for people but how do we truly know what they actually need in order to deal with the root cause, also I know from experience that prayer and healing are not always instant, so we need to have faith that even if we do not see results it doesn’t mean that nothing is happening. We doubt and question …….
Sorry waffling abut and not sure any of that is really relaying anything helpful !!!!!! Lol
Rita
 
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farouk

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And we just need a mustard seed of activated faith, because each of us are given a measure.

Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
@Mayflower Faith, also, is the key to the encouragement from many OT examples in Hebrews 11.....
 

amadeus

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@David H.
...
"That demon becomes a crutch to the one who has been possessed by them long term, to the point where the individual possessed is dependent on that demon."

This is more to what I was talking about. like, the longer someone has been entertaining certain spirits could make them stronger. Perhaps?
Thank you for the reply :)
Words which would might describe the situation well would be, embedded or entrenched! Like sinking into quicksand! The longer you are in it and the more you struggle, the worse your situation becomes. Fortunately, for us nothing is too difficult for God.
 
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MatthewG

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After reading some of the comment here.

From Mark 9 of this account you see that a person brings forth the crowd of people in which James, Peter, John and Jesus had returned from the transfiguration on the mount and when coming down they come back to the disciples, with a large crowd around them and some scribes arguing with them. Then they realized who was coming and were amazed and running up to greet Jesus.

A person from the crowd, told Jesus - I brought you my son, who is possessed with a spirit which makes him mute; and whenever it seizes him it dashes him to the ground and he foams at the mouth, and grinds his teeth. I asked your disciples to asked it our but they could not.

(Back then of course Demons could possess bodies ( because Satan and his Demons had not been taken out of just yet in the lake of fire) - I do not believe this happens now today - sorry but I do not.) I do however believe that the darkness of the soul still exist. And the reality that our flesh does dark things as well. Lie, steal, murder, manipulate, jealous, envy.

Notice that what was in the son of the man, made the body of the boy thrash around, on the ground, foaming at the mouth, with grinding of his teeth, and the boy was mute.

A picture of Aggitation, Aggervation, never opening up to talk about their inner problems and it brings them to the point of this brokeness.

Jesus goes on to say - O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to me.

- So this boy was unbelieving - in the domain of darkness with no help, except the Light - that came from Jesus.

And they brought the boy to him, and when the boy seen Jesus. The spirit in the boy threw him into a convulsion. - So say you are brining up the solution and desiring to share Jesus with this troubled person and all they do is rive like that of in pain because of the light that burns so badly but however is the only cure for the heart itself.

The boy fell to the ground and began rolling about and foaming at the mouth.

Now realize that the Son of the Man. The Man is brining forth the boy to Jesus. Do not forget this.

Jesus asked how long as this been happening to him, From childhood that man said.

So there was a problem that began since childhood and the boy is still having trouble and problems yet the man knew the solution was Jesus, because of all the great miracles he had performed.

Often the spirit throws the boy into the fire and water trying to kill him, and take him out. (The anguish of the soul) -(heart/mind/will/emotion) -

The man says : But if you (Jesus) can do anything take pity on us and help us. - Notice again Jesus being the solution.

Jesus said to the man " 'if you can!' All things are possible to him who believes.

Notice that word - Possible to him who believe - the boy is unbelieving has ben in anguish since childhood.
The solution ultimately is Jesus here.

The man said to Jesus I do believe help my unbelief. The enquiring of help of his own unbelief - This man was a Father who did not believe in God perhaps so their was not established to the boy when he was young. Perhaps 16 now or so?

Jesus commanded that spirit to come out of the boy and it did so throwing the boy back down on the ground.

After seeing this the crowd considered the boy to now be dead. But Jesus took him by the hand and raised him and he got up.

Then the disciples began why could we not cast it out, the boy in anguish can only be helped by fasting in prayer of whatever is making the boy be in the position that he is in. (unbelief being the problem to begin with obtaining no rest.)

Do not stop sharing Jesus as the solution with the person though, offer prayer and check on them, and maybe share this story with them. I do not know.

Hope this helps whoever is curious to know more about this story in an overall sense.

God bless,
Matthew G.
 
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