Understanding The Great Trib

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Taken

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Ever read Hal Lindsay's books, like The Late Great Planet Earth? What about Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series?

One of the main features in those works is about the "great tribulation" time that Lord Jesus foretold His Church about. Famines, earthquakes, wars, etc., are stressed as a sign that the tribulation has arrived! Problem is though, that's not really what God's Word teaches how the great tribulation will be like.

So all those books by Hal Lindsay and LaHaye about death and destruction during great tribulation are all for nought. Those things have already been happening today, and will be at their height just prior to the start of the great trib. But those things are NOT what the great trib are actually about.

:rolleyes:

Context!
Tribulation ~
adversity, grief, misery, affliction, oppression, persecution, suffering.

Tribulations affect every generation.
End “TIMES” reveal a “graduated” increase of “Global” Tribulations, marked by Gods Power: Specific “TIME” Line.. 7 Years
7 SEALS, “notification”:
... Sorrows...the Door for Reconciliation WITH God, shall soon close
7 TRUMPS, “signals”:
... Woes...the Door for Reconciliation WITH God, IS closing.
7 Vials, “revealing”:
... Door for Reconciliation WITH God, IS CLOSED.
GREAT Tribulation, Massive Death, Massive Destruction, Massive Division Accomplished.

Millennial Reign OF Christ ON Earth.
Those IN Christ, WITH Christ and a small number of Living Mortals, VOID of Evil spirits, occupy the Earth. (1,000 years).
Millennial Reign concludes with ANOTHER division of Mortals, “WITH” or “WITHOUT” Christ.
* Grand Finality...Judgement, Sentencing, Eternal Separation...OF:
Evil spirits Against God and Wicked men Against God...
ACCESS TO Heavens and
ACCESS TO Earths Surface and
ACCESS TO the Lord God Almighty and
ACCESS TO men risen in Glory;
...BANNED, BARRED, OVERCOME, KAPUT!
 
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Timtofly

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And the bit about 1948.... that was 73 years ago! Longer than any generation I'm aware of in bible language. So again, your interpretation of "that generation" is not holding up to scripture even in the loosest of terms.
Of course the generation that sees all things will see all things. Is that not obvious?

The cursing of the fig tree was the cursing of Israel. The blooming of the fig tree is the blooming of Israel. No one can add any more to that. Jesus said all He needed to say.

Once again it is not about x amount of time. People live longer than 70 years. Some people die before 20. Not every dies at 20, forcing a new generation every 20 years, but yet somehow we have a new generation every 15 to 20 years, because of babies being born. Birth defines a new generation. Death defines when that generation passes away. 70 has never defined a generation. 40 has never defined a generation. God declares humans are blessed with 1000 years, or 500 years, or 120 years, or 70 years. Those times do not define what a generation is. Those times describe God's mercy on the longevity of life.

The example was made in the Gospels about Simeon and Anna. The only two humans left alive of the generation promised not to pass away before the birth of Jesus.

Contrary to the popular practice of placing Daniel's 483 weeks to a specific hour and day was never the purpose of Daniel 9. Daniel's 483 weeks had been up for decades, and it seems that Anna and Simeon could now pass away, because they saw Jesus with their own eyes. But of course no one agrees on the starting point and ending point of Daniel's 70 weeks, just like no one agrees on being alive at the Second Coming.
 

NewMusic

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Timtofly,

You're not providing proof from the bible. You and the others keeping going beyond what is written and I am calling you out for it. You guys keep inserting additional words into Jesus' mouth, where no such words exist, and then also making up an interpretation on Jesus' words in Matthew 24:32-34 that goes way beyond what Jesus said. Jesus Himself told us what interpretation is to be drawn from his words regarding a fig tree and it has absolutely nothing to do with Israel.

You have not in any way given a bible verse that supports your assertion.

I, on the other hand, can actually supply from the bible words that completely contradict your assertion, but the onus is on you.

Matt 24:32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Matt 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Matt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

= = = = = =
Questioner: "What lesson are we to learn from the fig tree, Jesus?"

Jesus:
"As soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near, right?"

Questioner: "Yes."

Jesus:
"Okay then, so when you see all these things I just explained to you in the sentences before [Matthew 24:4-28], you will then know that I am at the very gate. And truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Questioner: "But Lord! Davy and Timtofly and others have said that the words you just spoke about the fig tree mean something different. They say that your words really mean that Israel has become a nation again. Isn't that what You truly mean?"

Jesus: [shaking his head at the stupidity]
"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." John 12:48

= = = = = =

So people, who are you going to follow? Who is your God? Davy and Timtofly? Because they keep making up bible sentences that are not written, and perverting the words that are written.

Again, and again. Paul tells you not to go beyond what is written. But you guys are not trained in righteousness. And I keep giving you every opportunity to supply scripture to support your ideas (that are not written in the passage), and you cannot. We see the words in the bible, and you completely make up a bogus interpretation to what is written.

 

Davy

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Timtofly,

You're not providing proof from the bible. You and the others keeping going beyond what is written and I am calling you out for it. You guys keep inserting additional words into Jesus' mouth, where no such words exist, and then also making up an interpretation on Jesus' words in Matthew 24:32-34 that goes way beyond what Jesus said. Jesus Himself told us what interpretation is to be drawn from his words regarding a fig tree and it has absolutely nothing to do with Israel.

You have not in any way given a bible verse that supports your assertion.

I, on the other hand, can actually supply from the bible words that completely contradict your assertion, but the onus is on you.

Matt 24:32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Matt 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Matt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

= = = = = =
Questioner: "What lesson are we to learn from the fig tree, Jesus?"

Jesus:
"As soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near, right?"

Questioner: "Yes."

Jesus:
"Okay then, so when you see all these things I just explained to you in the sentences before [Matthew 24:4-28], you will then know that I am at the very gate. And truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Questioner: "But Lord! Davy and Timtofly and others have said that the words you just spoke about the fig tree mean something different. They say that your words really mean that Israel has become a nation again. Isn't that what You truly mean?"

Jesus: [shaking his head at the stupidity]
"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." John 12:48

= = = = = =

So people, who are you going to follow? Who is your God? Davy and Timtofly? Because they keep making up bible sentences that are not written, and perverting the words that are written.

Again, and again. Paul tells you not to go beyond what is written. But you guys are not trained in righteousness. And I keep giving you every opportunity to supply scripture to support your ideas (that are not written in the passage), and you cannot. We see the words in the bible, and you completely make up a bogus interpretation to what is written.

You only show your Biblical illiteracy while trying to get others to assume you know The Bible.

The fig tree parable does not just involve a simple mention... of a tree sprouting its leaves to represent Jesus' future coming. The fig tree parable includes what God showed Jeremiah about the 2 baskets of figs in Jeremiah 24.

But you just choose to LEAVE OUT what God showed with the fig basket analogy in Jeremiah 24, revealing you actually don't know much of how God used the fig tree to represent Israel.
 

Timtofly

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Timtofly,

You're not providing proof from the bible. You and the others keeping going beyond what is written and I am calling you out for it. You guys keep inserting additional words into Jesus' mouth, where no such words exist, and then also making up an interpretation on Jesus' words in Matthew 24:32-34 that goes way beyond what Jesus said. Jesus Himself told us what interpretation is to be drawn from his words regarding a fig tree and it has absolutely nothing to do with Israel.

You have not in any way given a bible verse that supports your assertion.

I, on the other hand, can actually supply from the bible words that completely contradict your assertion, but the onus is on you.

Matt 24:32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Matt 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Matt 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

= = = = = =
Questioner: "What lesson are we to learn from the fig tree, Jesus?"

Jesus:
"As soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near, right?"

Questioner: "Yes."

Jesus:
"Okay then, so when you see all these things I just explained to you in the sentences before [Matthew 24:4-28], you will then know that I am at the very gate. And truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Questioner: "But Lord! Davy and Timtofly and others have said that the words you just spoke about the fig tree mean something different. They say that your words really mean that Israel has become a nation again. Isn't that what You truly mean?"

Jesus: [shaking his head at the stupidity]
"The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day." John 12:48

= = = = = =

So people, who are you going to follow? Who is your God? Davy and Timtofly? Because they keep making up bible sentences that are not written, and perverting the words that are written.

Again, and again. Paul tells you not to go beyond what is written. But you guys are not trained in righteousness. And I keep giving you every opportunity to supply scripture to support your ideas (that are not written in the passage), and you cannot. We see the words in the bible, and you completely make up a bogus interpretation to what is written.
The point is not a lesson on fig trees.

The point is application to reality.

If you have no application, you have no faith in what is not stated.

There is OT prophecy about the restoration of Israel. No one yet has proved 70AD was the restoration of Israel, with Scripture.
 
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Davy

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:rolleyes:

Context!
Tribulation ~
adversity, grief, misery, affliction, oppression, persecution, suffering.

Tribulations affect every generation.
End “TIMES” reveal a “graduated” increase of “Global” Tribulations, marked by Gods Power: Specific “TIME” Line.. 7 Years
7 SEALS, “notification”:
... Sorrows...the Door for Reconciliation WITH God, shall soon close
7 TRUMPS, “signals”:
... Woes...the Door for Reconciliation WITH God, IS closing.
7 Vials, “revealing”:
... Door for Reconciliation WITH God, IS CLOSED.
GREAT Tribulation, Massive Death, Massive Destruction, Massive Division Accomplished.

Millennial Reign OF Christ ON Earth.
Those IN Christ, WITH Christ and a small number of Living Mortals, VOID of Evil spirits, occupy the Earth. (1,000 years).
Millennial Reign concludes with ANOTHER division of Mortals, “WITH” or “WITHOUT” Christ.
* Grand Finality...Judgement, Sentencing, Eternal Separation...OF:
Evil spirits Against God and Wicked men Against God...
ACCESS TO Heavens and
ACCESS TO Earths Surface and
ACCESS TO the Lord God Almighty and
ACCESS TO men risen in Glory;
...BANNED, BARRED, OVERCOME, KAPUT!

I remember you heed men's doctrines about a false pre-trib rapture, and pre-trib wrongly uses the great tribulation for shock value, to scare brethren to want fly away prior to it, which is nowhere written. Instead, God's Word reveals the trib will be a time of world peace with the majority deceived by the coming false messiah. Tribulation will be upon only those in Christ that make a stand for Jesus in that time, and can't do that if we're gone.

So like I said before, the pre-trib rapture authors are just stealing people's money with all their Left-Behind books and movies.
 

Taken

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I remember you heed men's doctrines about a false pre-trib rapture, and pre-trib wrongly uses the great tribulation for shock value, to scare brethren to want fly away prior to it, which is nowhere written. Instead, God's Word reveals the trib will be a time of world peace with the majority deceived by the coming false messiah. Tribulation will be upon only those in Christ that make a stand for Jesus in that time, and can't do that if we're gone.

So like I said before, the pre-trib rapture authors are just stealing people's money with all their Left-Behind books and movies.

IF you desire to have a conversation about RAPTURE, you should FIRST know WHAT that word Means, and WHAT that word APPLIES TO, and WHO that word APPLIES TO, and WHY.

Since you are AGAINST, do tell, Exactly your understanding, of WHAT you ARE Against...
....ACCORDING TO YOU...
WHAT does the word RAPTURE mean to you?
WHAT does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
WHO does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
WHY does the word RAPTURE apply TO, the WHAT and the WHO?
 

nenagana

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Understanding The Great Trib - Facts about Matthew 24

1. Angels are not mentioned (mankind is expected to perform some of the work)
2. Women are not mentioned (fornication/controversy, is not necessary for god to begin an action in his timetable)
3. (the most important fact) Written before Revelation, and appears to provide detail about Daniel's Prophecy

***Disaster comes to Jerusalem (maybe mankind does it and not god)
(matthew 24 very first passage, no funny tricks)


***Abomination of Desolation Appears Suddenly! (matt 24:15)
(according to daniel, the crucifixion of jesus takes center stage again, maybe its a new take on what happened perviously, like some special event)


***The Function of Society is Permanently Disrupted! (Great Tribulation, Matt 24:21) HAS NOT HAPPENED!

(the "great tribulation" just has not happened, its possible it has, but we need to know more about the issue of the coronavirus...............)
 
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Davy

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IF you desire to have a conversation about RAPTURE, you should FIRST know WHAT that word Means, and WHAT that word APPLIES TO, and WHO that word APPLIES TO, and WHY.

Since you are AGAINST, do tell, Exactly your understanding, of WHAT you ARE Against...
....ACCORDING TO YOU...
WHAT does the word RAPTURE mean to you?
WHAT does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
WHO does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
WHY does the word RAPTURE apply TO, the WHAT and the WHO?

Don't give all that bullhooey, the word rapture is not even in God's Word, it's a Latin term they used for Greek harpazo ("caught up").

Apostle Paul described the saints still alive on earth being "caught up" to Jesus RETURNING in the clouds. Paul did not say where He would be going to in 1 Thess. 4, because the 'where' was already written in Zechariah 14, which you probably never read.
 

Davy

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Understanding The Great Trib - Facts about Matthew 24

1. Angels are not mentioned (mankind is expected to perform some of the work)
2. Women are not mentioned (fornication/controversy, is not necessary for god to begin an action in his timetable)
3. (the most important fact) Written before Revelation, and appears to provide detail about Daniel's Prophecy

***Disaster comes to Jerusalem (maybe mankind does it and not god)
(matthew 24 very first passage, no funny tricks)


***Abomination of Desolation Appears Suddenly! (matt 24:15)
(according to daniel, the crucifixion of jesus takes center stage again, maybe its a new take on what happened perviously, like some special event)


***The Function of Society is Permanently Disrupted! (Great Tribulation, Matt 24:21) HAS NOT HAPPENED!

(the "great tribulation" just has not happened, its possible it has, but we need to know more about the issue of the coronavirus...............)

It's like I showed, the time of earthquakes in diverse places, and famines, and pestilences, strife, etc., is just PRIOR to the trib. That time just prior to the great trib Jesus called 'the begnning of sorrows;

Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

KJV

Those above events are NOT of the great trib time. The great trib comes after those things, when the abomination of desolation is setup in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15-28).


It's very important to understand that the time of great tribulation is going to be a SPIRITUAL TRIBULATION OF DECEPTION TO FALSE IDOL WORSHIP TO A FALSE MESSIAH. That can't happen in a time when wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes are going on!

The coming false messiah is coming to play Jesus Christ, God on earth, and he is going to have power to work great signs and wonders and miracles on earth to DECEIVE the whole world. The Revelation 13:4-8 scripture also reveals that false one will deceive the whole world, except those whose names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world. Those are the ones he will hate and make war against. All the others, the deceived, he will have in his hand. Chicken in every pot for the deceived.

And when he sets up the abomination of desolation idol in false worship, which is what the Rev.13 "image of the beast" is about, that is when tribulaiton will be upon those of us who refuse to bow to it.
 
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Taken

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Don't give all that bullhooey, the word rapture is not even in God's Word, it's a Latin term they used for Greek harpazo ("caught up").

You can continue your dodge, And continue your accusations.
It simply reveals dodging and accusing is your intent, rather than understanding.

Rapture is a single word English Term, adopted from a single word Latin term, adopted from a single word Greek Term, adopted from TWO Aramaic words..
...All terms, regardless of the Language, have the same meaning, of being an individual QUICKLY “CAUGHT UP” and the “BLISSFUL JOY” the one being “CAUGHT UP” experiences.

Since the ONE WORD terms...Rapture, Raptur, Harpazo...ARE NOT IN THE ENGLISH Bible, IS it your understanding, those ONE WORD TERMS, have a different MEANING.....than...”CAUGHT UP”?

Is your “bullhooey” claim, one must IGNORE the one word terms...
Rapture, Raptur, Harpazo, BECAUSE ONLY “Caught Up”, appears IN the English Written Scripture ?
 

Taken

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@Davy

Since you could not answer the questions I posed to you ABOUT the word “RAPTURE”... I will answer the questions.

WHAT does the word RAPTURE mean to you?
...Rapture is an English one word term that means TO:
QUICKLY BE “caught up”...and the for the being being “caught up, it is A blissful experience”.


WHAT does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
...The “CATCHING UP” (ie Rapture) Applies TO: the Rising UP (from the Earth to the clouds):
a PHYSICAL LIVING body, (crucified with Christ),
that body’s saved soul,
that body’s born again spirit
...The “CATCHING UP” (ie Rapture) ALSO Applies TO: the Rising UP (from the Earth to the clouds): a PHYSICALLY DEAD body, (crucified with Christ).

WHO does the word RAPTURE apply TO?
...EVERY individual WHO has Become Converted “IN” Christ.
(Also known As, members of Jesus’ Church.)

WHY does the word RAPTURE apply TO, the WHAT and the WHO?
...The WHAT application, IS the ACT of “catching up” off the Earth to the clouds.
...The WHY application to the WHAT, IS EXPRESSLY revealing A SAFE HARBOR PLACE, ie(CLOUDS), God Himself Established, EXPRESSLY FOR “individuals” “WITH” God, TO BE SAFELY PROTECTED “FROM WRATH” (ie ALL WRATH), that SHALL COME UPON THE EARTH.

...The WHO application, IS every individual (physically alive, physically dead), Crucified “WITH” Christ, whose soul IS Saved, whose spirit IS Born Again.
(Also known As, CONVERTED IN Christ), ARE the Express WHO, WHO shall be “caught up” From the Earth, to the Clouds, SAFE FROM HARM OF “WRATH”, which SHALL Occur, AFTER the “Catching up”.
...The WHY application to the WHO, IS Expressly, BECAUSE the WHO, ARE NOT APPOINTED to, Subject to WRATH.

EVERY PERSON “not caught up”, IS REMAINING ON EARTH, AND Shall suffer WRATH.
“IF” you study Scripture, You should Learn...
WHO IS caught up, WHEN and WHY.
WHO IS remaining ON Earth, and WHY.
WHO suffers Wrath and WHY.
That the WRATH “increases” in increments.
WHO STOPS suffering WRATH, WHEN and WHY.
WHO CONTINUES suffering WRATH, (as it increases), unto WHEN and WHY.

Ignoring the precise Order and Way, (Of WHO, WHAT, WHY) before jumping to a discussion ON Pre-mid-post Tribulation, is simply dodging the facts, to understand....Pre-mid-post Tribulation EACH has a precise application TO SPECIFIC people. IF you do not KNOW WHO those specific people are or WHY (pre-mid-post) applies to them .... your dodging the basics of who and why, simply makes your jumping into “pre-mid-trib” irrelevant.

IF you had NOT noticed...
The END of Days as we know them, MUST have an application to EVERY Person.
Every Person does not believe IN God.
Every Person does not believe IN Jesus.
Every Person does not believe IN Christ.
Every Person does not believe IN Jesus IS the Christ.
Some Persons not ONLY do not believe, BUT make it their mission to EXPRESSLY try to convince others to NOT Believe.
Some Persons who DO NOT believe, Make it their mission to Persecute those that DO believe.

Yes WRATH is APPOINTED to a WHOLE host of people, Wrath shall be greater
To some persons more so than others.
Before the Wrath begins UPON the Earth, The ONLY living persons NOT appointed to WRATH...ARE THE CONVERTED.
Every other Living person upon the Earth SHALL SUFFER some degree of Wrath.

Comparatively....(as Scripture does), The Last Tribulation is compared to the First Tribulation.
The First Tribulation, EVERYTHING that remained ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, suffered WRATH.
The First Tribulation, EVERYTHING that was RISEN UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, TO THE CLOUDS, WAS SAVED and safe harbored OFF the Earth, KEPT from the Tribulation & Wrath ON the Earth.
The Last Tribulation, THE SAME shall occur. THE SAVED shall be RISEN UP ABOVE THE FACE OF THE EARTH, TO THE CLOUDS, safely harbored OFF the Earth, while Tribulation & Wrath IS ON the Earth.

You can READ the TRUTH in Scripture.
Believe it or NOT, your Freewill option.
However Teaching what is NOT the TRUTH, stands Against Gods Truth.
 

Davy

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You can continue your dodge, And continue your accusations.
It simply reveals dodging and accusing is your intent, rather than understanding.

That's some more of your bullhooey.

I have several times offered you direct Bible scripture to show how those you listen to have left God's Word to form their own ideas about the day of Jesus' return and His gathering of His saints, AFTER... the tribulation like Jesus said. You rejected what Lord Jesus said, and began to bear false witness against me personally, like you did here above.

I will continue to reveal the false Pre-trib Rapture theory that John Darby preached in 1830s Great Britain.
 

Taken

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That's some more of your bullhooey.

That is a TYPICAL ACCUSATION response from you, AND Precisely why it is always unworthy to have a conversation with you.

It is obvious you believe Living men, who HAVE received Salvation are going to be ON Earth when the Tribulation Begins.
Yet you NEVER speak to A PURPOSE for your presence ON Earth, during that time....LOL
Then as the Lamb of God IS IN Heaven OPENING the 7 Seals...
At the 7th Seals Opening .... the WRATH OF THE LAMB OF GOD rains down ON the Earth and it’s inhabitants....
(Rev 6:16)
LOL....and you are going to be ON EARTH, suffering the LAMBS WRATH...??
Why? Because ... you are LIKE all the men on Earth...WHO REJECTED the Lamb of God....and are NOW suffering HIS wrath for Rejection of the Lamb?
LOL...You think that IS Gods Promise to men....BE SAVED...by the Lamb of God and then...ENJOY the Wrath of the Lamb.....LOL

I will continue to reveal the false Pre-trib Rapture theory....

You can continue to reveal YOUR teaching, preaching, understanding which is in complete opposition to God Word....it will ONLY Effect YOU.
 

Timtofly

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That's some more of your bullhooey.

I have several times offered you direct Bible scripture to show how those you listen to have left God's Word to form their own ideas about the day of Jesus' return and His gathering of His saints, AFTER... the tribulation like Jesus said. You rejected what Lord Jesus said, and began to bear false witness against me personally, like you did here above.

I will continue to reveal the false Pre-trib Rapture theory that John Darby preached in 1830s Great Britain.
If you hate the word "rapture", why not start using the "pre-trib caught up" people are wrong?
 

Davy

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If you hate the word "rapture", why not start using the "pre-trib caught up" people are wrong?

Where did I say I hate that word rapture? Just because I said it is not written anywhere in God's Word, you think I hate it?

But I will... tell you what I hate about that word; I hate how men's traditions like the false... Pre-trib Rapture Theory abuses that word! And you well know... they use it to the hilt to push their theories! To them, it's almost as if that word 'rapture' sounds better to them than the word 'Salvation', they are so spiritually drunken with it!

And I do... use the "caught up" phrase, and prefer it just because of how men's doctrines abuse the word 'rapture', FYI.

But I do NOT... use "caught up" to show a FALSE Pre-trib gathering like those on the Pre-trib theory.