Divinity of Jesus Christ!

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post

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But again, those who assert that He was simply a mere man, begotten by Joseph, remaining in the bondage of the old disobedience, are in a state of death having been not as yet joined to the Word of God the Father, nor receiving liberty through the Son, as He does Himself declare: If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36 But, being ignorant of Him who from the Virgin is Emmanuel, they are deprived of His gift, which is eternal life; Romans 6:23 and not receiving the incorruptible Word, they remain in mortal flesh, and are debtors to death, not obtaining the antidote of life. To whom the Word says, mentioning His own gift of grace: I said, You are all the sons of the Highest, and gods; but you shall die like men. He speaks undoubtedly these words to those who have not received the gift of adoption, but who despise the incarnation of the pure generation of the Word of God, defraud human nature of promotion into God, and prove themselves ungrateful to the Word of God, who became flesh for them. For it was for this end that the Word of God was made man, and He who was the Son of God became the Son of man, that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving the adoption, might become the son of God. For by no other means could we have attained to incorruptibility and immortality, unless we had been united to incorruptibility and immortality. But how could we be joined to incorruptibility and immortality, unless, first, incorruptibility and immortality had become that which we also are, so that the corruptible might be swallowed up by incorruptibility, and the mortal by immortality, that we might receive the adoption of sons?

For this reason [it is, said], Who shall declare His generation? Isaiah 53:8 since He is a man, and who shall recognise Him? Jeremiah 17:9 But he to whom the Father which is in heaven has revealed Him, Matthew 16:16 knows Him, so that he understands that He who was not born either by the will of the flesh, or by the will of man, John 1:13 is the Son of man, this is Christ, the Son of the living God. For I have shown from the Scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the Scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man. But that He had, beyond all others, in Himself that pre-eminent birth which is from the Most High Father, and also experienced that pre-eminent generation which is from the Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 the divine Scriptures do in both respects testify of Him: also, that He was a man without comeliness, and liable to suffering; Isaiah 53:2 that He sat upon the foal of an ass; Zechariah 9:9 that He received for drink, vinegar and gall; that He was despised among the people, and humbled Himself even to death and that He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counsellor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, Isaiah 9:6 coming on the clouds as the Judge of all men; Daniel 7:13 — all these things did the Scriptures prophesy of Him.

- Iranaeus, 'Against Heresies' book III ch. 19​
 
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APAK

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@post, you communicate with elusive and non-specific citations and flowery words that might give one the impression you actually know scripture. To me this is a sure sign you do not. I would like to know what you actually know of scripture!

Take John 1:14 for example and not just John 1:14a. Can you explain what it actually means? And then in context with its preceding and following scripture?

If you can do that, then I will lift my ear/hearing to listen....
 
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post

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@APAK i am well aware that your little cult has a little pamphlet 'should you believe the trinity'

it reads:

“Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the pre-human Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the ‘One true and only God,’ who is ‘supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.'”

this is a boldfaced lie. have you read Iranaeus?

Therefore, by remitting sins, He did indeed heal man, while He also manifested Himself who He was. For if no one can forgive sins but God alone, while the Lord remitted them and healed men, it is plain that He was Himself the Word of God made the Son of man, receiving from the Father the power of remission of sins; since He was man, and since He was God, in order that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us, and forgive us our debts, in which we were made debtors to God our Creator.
- Iranaeus, 'Against Heresies' book V ch. 17​

what Iranaeus actually says & affirms is that there are many proofs, all over the scripture from Moses through the prophets and the record of Christ's own words and the writings of all the apostles, that Christ is 100% exactly God and 100% man and that the Spirit also is God: all three distinct, and all three equally indistinguishably the one true & only God.
here i've put for you part of his dialogue, demonstrating that the forgiveness of sins is a proof that Christ is God. not 'a god' but THE GOD AMEN.


at least the pharisees understood that what they were doing was rejecting Him and His own claims & demonstrations of who He is.
you lot simply exchange the truth for a lie, and proudly look down your nose at anyone who doesn't join you in it!
 

post

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@post, you communicate with elusive and non-specific citations and flowery words that might give one the impression you actually know scripture. To me this is a sure sign you do not. I would like to know what you actually know of scripture!

Take John 1:14 for example and not just John 1:14a. Can you explain what it actually means? And then in context with its preceding and following scripture?

If you can do that, then I will lift my hear to listen....

I the LORD, that My name;
and My glory I will not give to another

(Isaiah 42:8)​

we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father
(John 1:14)​

the glory that I had with You in the beginning
(John 17:5)​

the LORD shares His glory with no one
Christ has exactly the same glory as the LORD
Christ is I AM

by two witnesses, Q.E.D.
 

APAK

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@APAK i am well aware that your little cult has a little pamphlet 'should you believe the trinity'

it reads:

“Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the pre-human Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the ‘One true and only God,’ who is ‘supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.'”

this is a boldfaced lie. have you read Iranaeus?

Therefore, by remitting sins, He did indeed heal man, while He also manifested Himself who He was. For if no one can forgive sins but God alone, while the Lord remitted them and healed men, it is plain that He was Himself the Word of God made the Son of man, receiving from the Father the power of remission of sins; since He was man, and since He was God, in order that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us, and forgive us our debts, in which we were made debtors to God our Creator.
- Iranaeus, 'Against Heresies' book V ch. 17​

what Iranaeus actually says & affirms is that there are many proofs, all over the scripture from Moses through the prophets and the record of Christ's own words and the writings of all the apostles, that Christ is 100% exactly God and 100% man and that the Spirit also is God: all three distinct, and all three equally indistinguishably the one true & only God.
here i've put for you part of his dialogue, demonstrating that the forgiveness of sins is a proof that Christ is God. not 'a god' but THE GOD AMEN.


at least the pharisees understood that what they were doing was rejecting Him and His own claims & demonstrations of who He is.
you lot simply exchange the truth for a lie, and proudly look down your nose at anyone who doesn't join you in it!
What do you know of me post? Nothing!
 

post

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non-specific citations

lol compare what your little cult's little pamphlet says about Iranaeus, with what i gave you.
i gave explicit citations from his own words.
your earthly masters gave you unsubstantiated, blasphemous assertions

yet you accuse me of what they did to you.
wow

here i will give you even more:
CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies (St. Irenaeus)

follow the link you can read all of 'Against Heresies' for yourself.
 

Robert Gwin

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Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Christ is speaking as God!

What does the Bible say Faith?
(Jeremiah 10:10) . . .Jehovah is truly God. He is the living God and the eternal King.. . .
(Matthew 16:13-17) . . .Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·liʹjah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

May I ask you who is the God of Jesus?:
(John 20:17) . . .Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. . .

Could it be the one Jesus proclaimed he worshipped at Mat 4:10:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

I would say that one can not go wrong to accept what the Bible really teaches, correct?
 

post

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Could it be the one Jesus proclaimed he worshipped at Mat 4:10:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”


But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
Let all the angels of God worship Him.
(Hebrews 1:6)​

→ Christ is God
 

post

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But to the Son He says:
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.

And:
You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
"
(Hebrews 1:8-10)​

God calls Christ the Son, "God"
God calls Christ the Son, "Lord"
God calls Christ the Son the Creator of heaven and earth

→ Christ is God


the author of the epistle to the Hebrews lays all this out in chapter 1 as though it is common knowledge and the universally accepted belief of all Christians. as compared with the lengths he goes to later in the letter concerning priesthood in detail, the relatively terse way in which he mentions the incontrovertible deity of Christ is in itself amazing, and absolutely destroys the heretical dogmas of the watchtower cult.
 

Robert Gwin

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But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
Let all the angels of God worship Him.
(Hebrews 1:6)​

→ Christ is God

God is not anointed Post, in fact He is the one who anointed Jesus.
 

post

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Who anointed God? Nope it was the other way around, it was God who anointed Jesus

Christ is God.

by 10,000 incontrovertible proofs, Christ is God.

your assertions of the deity of the Father only make you a trinitarian; they do not and indeed cannot refute the deity of Christ
 

post

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He is the living God and the eternal King

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS
- Jesus​

I AM
- Jesus​

THE LIFE
- Jesus​

I LIVE FOREVERMORE
- Jesus

ETERNAL FATHER
- Jesus

ALMIGHTY GOD
- Jesus

THE AMEN
- Jesus

THE ALEPH AND THE TAV
- Jesus

THE TRUTH
- Jesus

AUTHOR OF SALVATION
- Jesus


→ Christ is God
 

post

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every

knee

shall

bow
 

theefaith

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That is exactly right. Jesus of Nazareth was and is GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH.
God who became Man in order to die for our sins. Anyone who denies this is treading on thin ice.

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are Christian doctrine, would you say those who deny them are not Christians?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 pet 2:2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 

theefaith

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Only God can grant men peace

Jn 14:1 let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

my peace!
Gods peace!
 

theefaith

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What does the Bible say Faith?
(Jeremiah 10:10) . . .Jehovah is truly God. He is the living God and the eternal King.. . .
(Matthew 16:13-17) . . .Jesus asked his disciples: “Who are men saying the Son of man is?” 14 They said: “Some say John the Baptist, others E·liʹjah, and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

May I ask you who is the God of Jesus?:
(John 20:17) . . .Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God. . .

Could it be the one Jesus proclaimed he worshipped at Mat 4:10:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

I would say that one can not go wrong to accept what the Bible really teaches, correct?

Jesus Christ has two natures in one person

Fully God and fully man
 

David in NJ

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But again, those who assert that He was simply a mere man, begotten by Joseph, remaining in the bondage of the old disobedience, are in a state of death having been not as yet joined to the Word of God the Father, nor receiving liberty through the Son, as He does Himself declare: If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. John 8:36 But, being ignorant of Him who from the Virgin is Emmanuel, they are deprived of His gift, which is eternal life; Romans 6:23 and not receiving the incorruptible Word, they remain in mortal flesh, and are debtors to death, not obtaining the antidote of life. To whom the Word says, mentioning His own gift of grace: I said, You are all the sons of the Highest, and gods; but you shall die like men. He speaks undoubtedly these words to those who have not received the gift of adoption, but who despise the incarnation of the pure generation of the Word of God, defraud human nature of promotion into God, and prove themselves ungrateful to the Word of God, who became flesh for them. For it was for this end that the Word of God was made man, and He who was the Son of God became the Son of man, that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving the adoption, might become the son of God. For by no other means could we have attained to incorruptibility and immortality, unless we had been united to incorruptibility and immortality. But how could we be joined to incorruptibility and immortality, unless, first, incorruptibility and immortality had become that which we also are, so that the corruptible might be swallowed up by incorruptibility, and the mortal by immortality, that we might receive the adoption of sons?

For this reason [it is, said], Who shall declare His generation? Isaiah 53:8 since He is a man, and who shall recognise Him? Jeremiah 17:9 But he to whom the Father which is in heaven has revealed Him, Matthew 16:16 knows Him, so that he understands that He who was not born either by the will of the flesh, or by the will of man, John 1:13 is the Son of man, this is Christ, the Son of the living God. For I have shown from the Scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the Scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man. But that He had, beyond all others, in Himself that pre-eminent birth which is from the Most High Father, and also experienced that pre-eminent generation which is from the Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 the divine Scriptures do in both respects testify of Him: also, that He was a man without comeliness, and liable to suffering; Isaiah 53:2 that He sat upon the foal of an ass; Zechariah 9:9 that He received for drink, vinegar and gall; that He was despised among the people, and humbled Himself even to death and that He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counsellor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God, Isaiah 9:6 coming on the clouds as the Judge of all men; Daniel 7:13 — all these things did the Scriptures prophesy of Him.

- Iranaeus, 'Against Heresies' book III ch. 19​

YES Brother = What God has joined together let no man separate - Mark 10:9
 

Webers_Home

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The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically
refers to spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs
thoughts.

That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;

"All things were made by God's voice; and without His voice was not any
thing made that was made."

For example Genesis 1:6 where we can observe the power of God's voice in
action; making things.

"And God said: Let there be an expanse . . . .

So then; I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:14 like this;

"God's voice became flesh, and by His voice God made His dwelling among
us."

There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no
sense to me whatsoever: God's voice is one of them. I can easily understand
how a person can be a sentient being, but I cannot at all understand how
someone's voice can be a sentient being when to me a person's voice is just
sounds and syllables; but Jesus said that God's voice is active.

John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
_
 

APAK

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The Greek noun translated "Word" in John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 basically
refers to spoken words in contrast to unspoken words, i.e. speech vs
thoughts.

That being the case, then I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:3 like this;

"All things were made by God's voice; and without His voice was not any
thing made that was made."

For example Genesis 1:6 where we can observe the power of God's voice in
action; making things.

"And God said: Let there be an expanse . . . .

So then; I can legitimately paraphrase John 1:14 like this;

"God's voice became flesh, and by His voice God made His dwelling among
us."

There are elements of Christianity that defy reason and logic and make no
sense to me whatsoever: God's voice is one of them. I can easily understand
how a person can be a sentient being, but I cannot at all understand how
someone's voice can be a sentient being when to me a person's voice is just
sounds and syllables; but Jesus said that God's voice is active.

John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
_
Fantastic....the (W)word was and is the spirit expression, the thoughts and plans of God Almighty. He once kept them to himself...until,
he gave this intrinsic spirit Word of himself into his Son for our benefit. His Word in spirit became present in the man Jesus (1:14) from his birth and especially evident after his baptism and anointing. He spoke his Father's Word(s). Yahshua read his Father's Word(s) and spoke them as his own voice.....
 
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