Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
John wrote his Gospel thru the Anointing of Holy Spirit revelation.
Thus the Apostle John understood Who the Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness in fact ARE.
ALL THREE were present from the Beginning - Father Son Holy Spirit
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. - Genesis 1:1-3
How can you draw that conclusion from that passage? There is no mention at all of the "Spirit". Jesus says that God was his father and the Jews erroneously thought that meant that he was claiming to be equal to God (Jesus has never claimed equality with God). If you were to claim that God is your Father, that does not mean that you are claiming to be equal to God or that you are God. The same applies to Jesus.
Jesus says that God has committed all judgement of mankind (and the angels) to His Son, Jesus, and therefore everyone should honour His Son just as they honour God. God and His Son are obviously in agreement and harmony, but there is absolutely no indication whatsoever from this passage that Jesus is God, or that they are somehow joined (not separate beings).
Paul said that Christians (sharing in Jesus' kingdom rule) will judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:3). Does that mean all Christians are also God and not separate from God?!
What translation is that? The only one that I can find that translates it that way is the Good News Bible, which I don't think is a good translation (it's certainly not accurate in translating this verse!). All other translations that I've checked say "I am" or "I am he". The meaning is like the NLT translates it:
That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.”
Some context - John 8 (WEB):
(12) Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”
(13) The Pharisees therefore said to him, “You testify about yourself. Your testimony is not valid.”
(17) It’s also written in your law that the testimony of two people is valid.
(18) I am one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.”
(13) The Pharisees therefore said to him, “You testify about yourself. Your testimony is not valid.”
(17) It’s also written in your law that the testimony of two people is valid.
(18) I am one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.”
In verses 12 and 18 ego eimi is translated as "I am", likewise there is no reason why ego eimi in verse 24 should be translated differently. "I am that I am" is not a valid translation, even if you make it all capitals. You can't use this verse to try to prove that Jesus was claiming to be God.
God does not have a god. Yet Jesus says:
John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Revelation 3:12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.
Why have you taken three words out of a verse only. This seems like deliberate sophistry.
What did Thomas believe? John 20 (WEB):
(25) The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails, put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
(27) Then he said to Thomas, “Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don’t be unbelieving, but believing.”
(29) Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.”
(27) Then he said to Thomas, “Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don’t be unbelieving, but believing.”
(29) Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.”
Thomas refused to believe that Jesus was alive again, that he had been resurrected. After he saw the risen Jesus for himself, and the wounds in Jesus' hands and side, then he believed that Jesus was alive again. You have picked out a few words to blind us to the truth of the Scripture and to try and make it look as though Thomas believed that Jesus was God, whereas it's clear that the passage is talking about believing that Jesus had been resurrected.
Thomas calls Him God.
Jesus does not rebuke him, rather, Jesus says of him that he believes.
This either makes Jesus evil, or proves Jesus is God.
QED
I think we both know which of the 2 logical options you believe.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
OH YES my Friend the SPIRIT is there - have you forgotten???
Then John testified, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove and resting on Him. 33I myself did not know Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
34 I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”
ALL THREE - Father Son Holy Spirit were 100% established in John chapter 1.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Just as all THREE are in Genesis, from the Beginning.
Once God establishes His Foundation, HE does not need to repeat it in every sentence.
Jesus said, after his resurrection, "All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth" (Matthew 28:18), which would definitely make him a god (a mighty being), so there was no reason to correct Thomas. It does not make Jesus to be the only true almighty God though. As Jesus said, in prayer to God, his Father, "This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ" (John 17:3).
That is very true, so do you believe who he is Post? We differ in our beliefs in who he is, therefore one of us by that very passage is going to die in our sins. Keep in mind you have to know God and obey the gospel to survive the return of Jesus 2 Thes 1:6-9
Investigate it further, and look for the alteration in the translation. Once you realize your version deliberately manipulated the passages, that may open your mind.
Immanuel does not mean God came to be with us here, as a matter of fact He spoke from heaven at His son's baptism, rather it means He was with humans by providing the means for our redemption as Jn 3:16 which I am sure you can quote states.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Anyone who says Jesus is 'a god' is unlearned in the Scripture or has not been Born-Again by the SPIRIT or has been taught false doctrine.
SEE Post #227
As I wrote, there is no mention at all of the "Spirit" in the passage you quoted, so it is NOT "there".
So why don't you believe what you quote? It declares that Jesus is the Son of God, not that he is God.
At Pentecost, after Jesus' resurrection, we're told, Acts 2:3-4 (WEB):
(3) Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them.
(4) They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak.
(4) They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak.
So do you interpret that to mean that all those early Christians were all God (for God's Holy Spirit filled all of them)?
Psalms 82:1,6-8 (WEB):
(1) A Psalm by Asaph. God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
(6) I said, “You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.
(7) Nevertheless you shall die like men, and fall like one of the rulers.”
(8) Arise, God, judge the earth, for you inherit all of the nations.
(6) I said, “You are gods, all of you are sons of the Most High.
(7) Nevertheless you shall die like men, and fall like one of the rulers.”
(8) Arise, God, judge the earth, for you inherit all of the nations.
Who "inherits" the nations? I'd say that was God's Son, Jesus - he inherits the nations from God.
John 10:33-36 (WEB):
(33) The Jews answered him, “We don’t stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
(34) Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’
(35) If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can’t be broken),
(36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’
(34) Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’
(35) If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can’t be broken),
(36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’
You're like those Jews, not believing Jesus' claim to be the Son of God, but instead thinking that he was claiming to be God - for which they wanted to stone him. Don't be like them - believe Jesus instead!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You are blind to your Post friend =
(1) A Psalm by Asaph. God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods
(8) Arise, God, judge the earth, for you inherit all of the nations.
“Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
Why does the LORD say the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's and YET HE says if you do not keep His words you do not love Him?
You confuse yourself over the LORD before His Coming.
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Everything the LORD is in the Prophets - the SON IS.
God rules with a Rod of Iron = the SON Rules with a Rod of Iron
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Exactly why can’t people understand this? Jesus never claimed to be God but the Sin of God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
People, no one, can understand what God tells us to believe thru Faith.
Read Exodus ch3
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Whenever a person says "Scripture does not mean what it says...." this is a Red Flag/High Alert that something NOT from God is coming.
We SEE this in Genesis, in the Garden, "did God really say?"
Wow what are you a Mormon?
Talk about polytheism!
There is only one God!
He is manifest in the flesh, in Jesus Christ!
Wow man.
What was the charge made against Jesus when He let them crucified Him?
Why were the pharisees always trying to stone Him to death?
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