A SPIN-OFF from "JESUS IS GOD PART 2"

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Heart2Soul

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Because of that thread I discovered a hidden treasure (hidden to me anyway)...
So here is what caught my attention:...

I find it very interesting that in Mark 14 Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of man...Mark 14 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁰ And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
²¹ The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.


⁴¹ And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
⁴² Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.


⁶¹ But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
⁶² And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
⁶³ Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
⁶⁴ Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Jesus never spoke from His lips He was the Son of God...but there are several scriptures where it is implied...

Ex:Matthew 26 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶³ But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
⁶⁴ Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Now check this out...
Here is what I believe it is showing us...Jesus never called Himself "Son of God" because He is God....but always referred to Himself as "Son of man" because He is God made flesh....
But everytime someone else referred to Him as the "Son of God" He did not deny it but to Peter He said:
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
¹⁶ And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?
 

Mayflower

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Good find. I was looking for those studies, but can't find them now. I was reading them. Seems interesting.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:1-14
Proof enough for me. Praise to my Lord and my God, the Son of man.
 

Mayflower

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Philippians 2:5-11

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God

something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself

and became obedient to death—

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

----------

Praise be to God the Son, the Son of man.
 

dev553344

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Now check this out...
Here is what I believe it is showing us...Jesus never called Himself "Son of God" because He is God....but always referred to Himself as "Son of man" because He is God made flesh....
But everytime someone else referred to Him as the "Son of God" He did not deny it but to Peter He said:
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
¹⁶ And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?
I never understood that Jesus was God. I had to be told by the Holy Spirit which was done some 10 years ago. So I can't refute that idea.
 

Mayflower

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Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.”

John 9:35-38 – “Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered and said, “And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.”

Heb. 1:6 – “And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him.'”

Even the angels worship Christ. Seeing the ten commandments have thou shalt not have any other god's before me, it would seem like a strange thing for God to allow if Jesus was not indeed God in flesh. Anyways I got to go. Bless y'all.

I was praying for understanding this morning, so was on my heart to share.
 

Cooper

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Now check this out...
Here is what I believe it is showing us...Jesus never called Himself "Son of God" because He is God....but always referred to Himself as "Son of man" because He is God made flesh....
But everytime someone else referred to Him as the "Son of God" He did not deny it but to Peter He said:
Matthew 16 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
¹⁶ And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
¹⁷ And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?

About Matthew 16:15-17, Jesus said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

When Simon Peter said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” he was confirming what the Father had revealed to him, which was that Jesus was Israel’s Messiah and God.

Jesus Christ himself is the chief cornerstone, Ephesians 2:20, and it is upon this confession of Simon Peter, revealed to him by the Father, on which the church stands.

Jesus is a Rock in 1 Corinthians 10:4 and “rock” is never a man. So here at Caesarea Philippi, it is not upon Peter, a man, on which the Church has its foundation, but upon the Rock, which is always the symbol of Deity. God’s church is Jesus Himself.

Peter never spoke of himself as the foundation of the church. Twice he referred to Christ as a Stone (Act_4:11-12; 1Pe_2:4-8), but there he speaks of Christ as the head of the corner, not the foundation.

Conclusion. Jesus is not only the chief cornerstone on which the church is built, but is the Head of the church that is built on Him.

(Summarised from the Believer's Bible.)
 
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Eternally Grateful

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I also wonder.

In daniel the son of man or son of God is spoke of twice

One, when the three were cast into the fiery furnace.

25 “Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”

And the second is in Dan 7, where we are told the son of man will come in the clouds

Whihc we are told will be Jesus himself at the end, when he crushes the final gentile kingdom.

I think there are mre in the OT I am not sure. Love this thread though. You brought to my attention things I have not considered before thank you!!

Now I want to find Part 1!!
 

Robert Gwin

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Because of that thread I discovered a hidden treasure (hidden to me anyway)...
So here is what caught my attention:...

I find it very interesting that in Mark 14 Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of man...Mark 14 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁰ And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
²¹ The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.


⁴¹ And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
⁴² Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.


⁶¹ But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
⁶² And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
⁶³ Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
⁶⁴ Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Jesus never spoke from His lips He was the Son of God...but there are several scriptures where it is implied...

Ex:Matthew 26 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶³ But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
⁶⁴ Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

The title son of man actually has meaning maam. In the Gospel accounts the expression is found nearly 80 times, applying in every case to Jesus Christ, being used by him to refer to himself. (Mt 8:20; 9:6; 10:23) The occurrences outside the Gospel accounts are at Acts 7:56; Hebrews 2:6; and Revelation 1:13; 14:14.

Jesus’ application of this expression to himself clearly showed that God’s Son was now indeed a human, having ‘become flesh’ (Joh 1:14), having ‘come to be out of a woman’ through his conception and birth to the Jewish virgin Mary. (Ga 4:4; Lu 1:34-36) Hence he had not simply materialized a human body as angels had previously done; he was not an incarnation but was actually a ‘son of mankind’ through his human mother.—Compare 1Jo 4:2, 3; 2Jo 7
 

Kermos

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Because of that thread I discovered a hidden treasure (hidden to me anyway)...
So here is what caught my attention:...

I find it very interesting that in Mark 14 Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of man...Mark 14 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁰ And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
²¹ The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.


⁴¹ And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
⁴² Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.


⁶¹ But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
⁶² And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
⁶³ Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
⁶⁴ Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Jesus never spoke from His lips He was the Son of God...but there are several scriptures where it is implied...

Ex:Matthew 26 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁶³ But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
⁶⁴ Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Truly, Lord Jesus speaks from His lips that He is the Son of God for the Word of God says "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (John 10:36).

King Jesus is truly man and truly God.
 

David H.

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So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?

Amen! The divinity of Christ can be taught as a doctrine, but until the truth of this is revealed by the Holy Spirit there is always a modicum of doubt there. Not only do we know about the divinity of Christ we come to know Christ as God. We come to faith having not seen, but when the Holy Spirit gives us unction, we see with Spiritual eyes the truth of the Word of God. It is the same with many of the truths of scripture. For example you can know about the Love of God for us, or you can experience his love for us and a big part of that is knowing that God came in the flesh to die for us. Like a man dying to save a sinful worm in the ground.

It is this experience that the saints of old have sung and written of for years for example Isaac Watts who penned the following hymn:

  1. Alas! and did my Savior bleed
    And did my Sov’reign die?
    Would He devote that sacred head
    For such a worm as I?
  2. Was it for crimes that I had done
    He groaned upon the tree?
    Amazing pity! grace unknown!
    And love beyond degree!
  3. Well might the sun in darkness hide
    And shut his glories in,
    When Christ, the mighty Maker died,
    For man the creature’s sin.
  4. Thus might I hide my blushing face
    While His dear cross appears,
    Dissolve my heart in thankfulness,
    And melt my eyes to tears.
  5. But drops of grief can ne’er repay
    The debt of love I owe:
    Here, Lord, I give myself away,
    ’Tis all that I can do.
    • Refrain (Hudson):
      At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light,
      And the burden of my heart rolled away,
      It was there by faith I received my sight,
      And now I am happy all the day!
Alas! and Did My Savior Bleed > Lyrics | Isaac Watts (timelesstruths.org)
 

Heart2Soul

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Truly, Lord Jesus speaks from His lips that He is the Son of God for the Word of God says "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (John 10:36).

King Jesus is truly man and truly God.
Yes He is...
 

Heart2Soul

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Amen! The divinity of Christ can be taught as a doctrine, but until the truth of this is revealed by the Holy Spirit there is always a modicum of doubt there. Not only do we know about the divinity of Christ we come to know Christ as God. We come to faith having not seen, but when the Holy Spirit gives us unction, we see with Spiritual eyes the truth of the Word of God. It is the same with many of the truths of scripture. For example you can know about the Love of God for us, or you can experience his love for us and a big part of that is knowing that God came in the flesh to die for us. Like a man dying to save a sinful worm in the ground.

It is this experience that the saints of old have sung and written of for years for example Isaac Watts who penned the following hymn:

  1. Alas! and did my Savior bleed
    And did my Sov’reign die?
    Would He devote that sacred head
    For such a worm as I?
  2. Was it for crimes that I had done
    He groaned upon the tree?
    Amazing pity! grace unknown!
    And love beyond degree!
  3. Well might the sun in darkness hide
    And shut his glories in,
    When Christ, the mighty Maker died,
    For man the creature’s sin.
  4. Thus might I hide my blushing face
    While His dear cross appears,
    Dissolve my heart in thankfulness,
    And melt my eyes to tears.
  5. But drops of grief can ne’er repay
    The debt of love I owe:
    Here, Lord, I give myself away,
    ’Tis all that I can do.
    • Refrain (Hudson):
      At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light,
      And the burden of my heart rolled away,
      It was there by faith I received my sight,
      And now I am happy all the day!
Alas! and Did My Savior Bleed > Lyrics | Isaac Watts (timelesstruths.org)
Beautiful lyrics, I would love to hear the melody!
 

Hidden In Him

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So I am curious about this and have meditated on it and concluded that it had to be revealed to man by the Father, and then later after His crucifixion it is revealed by the Holy Spirit....so Jesus true nature has to be revealed....amen?


Yes. It has to be revealed, and it still has to be revealed. As I was stating elsewhere, when Thomas declared to Jesus "My Lord and my God," Jesus did not correct Him.

I believe the reason it has to be revealed is because all men would have bowed down if He had first come in power, even though they did not truly love Him. They would have bowed down only because they recognized superior power.

This is stated in 1 Corinthians 2:

6 We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit.

The rulers of this age, including Pilate and the Emperor himself, would have never crucified Jesus if they knew He had far more power than they did, and could call on a legion of angels if He wanted to. Rulers are into preserving their positions of power, not dooming them to destruction, so why make someone like that your enemy? Thus, had they known, they would have laughed the Pharisees out of the building who wanted Him crucified, or worse. They made have had them killed instead, to show fealty to the Lord Jesus Christ.

But that's just it. God didn't choose the powerful of this world, He choose the lowly and the despised. When it says "We speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing," Paul was actually speaking of Daniel 7, where it was promised long ago that the saints of God would suffer persecution at the hands of the Antichrist, but that in the end the kingdoms of this world would be handed over to them for being faithful to God, and the meek would thus inherit the earth. This is what he meant by, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." He meant their rewards when all was said and done would outweigh their sufferings, and be far better than they could have ever dreamed. It's why Paul also said, "Our light afflictions build for us a far more exceeding weight of glory."

So for the saints of God it has always been about discerning who Jesus really is, and believing it, so that when the time comes for us to be rewarded, it will be because we made Him Lord over our lives when we did not have to out of fear, but because we wanted to out of love. And this is the wisdom of God which was "hidden in a mystery."
 

Hidden In Him

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Amen! The divinity of Christ can be taught as a doctrine, but until the truth of this is revealed by the Holy Spirit there is always a modicum of doubt there. Not only do we know about the divinity of Christ we come to know Christ as God. We come to faith having not seen, but when the Holy Spirit gives us unction, we see with Spiritual eyes the truth of the Word of God.


Exactly. This accounts for why Jesus consistently referred to Himself as "son of man," and yet the apostles consistently referred to Him as "Son of God." But then, the Father called Jesus "My Son" on several occasions and they heard this audibly, and thus it was after seeing Him alive from the dead that this revelation finally sank in that He was far more than just a man.

As stated in the previous post, it has only been revealed to us now. When He comes in all power and His glory lights up the sky from East to West, then all mankind will know He is God. But they will come to realize this only when it is too late, having already made Him their enemy to their own doom, for not receiving Him out of love when they had the chance.
 

farouk

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Matt. 28:9 – “And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.”

John 9:35-38 – “Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36He answered and said, “And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.”

Heb. 1:6 – “And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, ‘And let all the angels of God worship Him.'”

Even the angels worship Christ. Seeing the ten commandments have thou shalt not have any other god's before me, it would seem like a strange thing for God to allow if Jesus was not indeed God in flesh. Anyways I got to go. Bless y'all.

I was praying for understanding this morning, so was on my heart to share.
@Mayflower Hebrews 1 is a great chapter indeed...The Biblical evidence for the Lord Jesus' deity is overwhelming...