Why was there a reformation?

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Marymog

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LUther was Inspired by the Holy SPirit to teach ONE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE - i.e. Eph 2:8,9. We are saved NOT by "works"/religious activity, but BY FAITH which is gifted by God. HE had a PILE of other stuff wrong (we was, after all, an educated Roman Catholic priest / Augustinain Monk. BUt Salvation by FAITH and not by "religious activity" was his primary message.

By visible church membership, I've been Assembly of God for most of the last 58 years. "Lutherans" have way too much Bells, Smells, and religious pageantry for my taste.
Hi Bob,

Hmmm….so Luther was inspired by the Holy Spirit on doctrine you agree with but he got a “pile of other stuff wrong” which are the things you disagree with. Soooooo, according to your theory, Luther was only inspired on the things YOU say he was inspired on…..Why did the Holy Spirit stop inspiring Luther up to the point he started to got things wrong? How do we know when the Spirit stopped inspiring him? Do the men of the Assembly of God get anything wrong?

Curious Mary
 
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theefaith

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LUther was Inspired by the Holy SPirit to teach ONE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE - i.e. Eph 2:8,9. We are saved NOT by "works"/religious activity, but BY FAITH which is gifted by God. HE had a PILE of other stuff wrong (we was, after all, an educated Roman Catholic priest / Augustinain Monk. BUt Salvation by FAITH and not by "religious activity" was his primary message.

By visible church membership, I've been Assembly of God for most of the last 58 years. "Lutherans" have way too much Bells, Smells, and religious pageantry for my taste.

the Holy Spirit inspiring heresy in heretics is heretical, even blasphemy

eph 2 He quicken us, brought us to life in grace refers to both the redemption by Christ and baptism

never faith alone!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38


Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Matter: pure water
Form: the words

Born again! Born from above!


'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)


Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!
 

theefaith

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The new covenant unity:
Union with Christ the mediator and communion with God and the saints is based on “unity of faith”

“Thee faith” of the new covenant that all must believe without any error, false or strange doctrines foreign to “thee faith” of the new covenant!

“Thee faith” is found 31 times in the New Testament!

Obedience of faith: rom 16:26

Ephesians 4
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. ...

Romans 12:16
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Peter 3:8
Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

One church founded by Jesus Christ!

there is only one!
One God!
One Lord!
One savior!
One faith!
One new covenant!
One kingdom!
One household of faith!
One vineyard!
One church! (Not thousands of sects All teaching different doctrines all on the Bible alone, by the tradition of men)
Only Christ has authority to found the new covenant church! Matt 16:18-19
One shepherd one fold Jn 10:16
1 Tim 3:15 pillar and ground of truth
All men must be taught by the church!

Truth is revealed by God, fully by Christ, and must be proposed for our belief by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 one faith

Unity of faith!

Four Marks of the True Church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
 

theefaith

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One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church!

The church is One:

Isaiah 9:7
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Isa 22:21-22

21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. (Matt 16:18-19)

Dan 2:44
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, (acts 2:17 began at Pentecost) that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32-33 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


Mt 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

John 17:17-23
that they may be one as we are one.

Romans 12:5
so we, who are many, are one body in Christ.

Rom 15:6

1 Corinthians 1:10
I appeal to you... that there be no dissensions among you, but that
you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body.

1 Corinthians 12:20
But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 3:15
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were
called in the one body.

Philippians 1:27
Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Philippians 2:2
be of same the mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of
one mind.


The church is Holy:


The church is Holy because Her founder is God, and Holy is His name.

She is the spotless bride of Christ.

1 Timothy 3:15
know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Colossians 1:18
And he [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church.

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people
belonging to God... Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.


The church is Catholic: (universal)

Jn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Matt 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Matt 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jn 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Jn 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Jn 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Jn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Jn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jn 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world...

Jn 12:47

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world

Jn 16:12-13
I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them
now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

2 cor 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us (the whole world) to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

World = Universal = Catholic
 

Bob Carabbio

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so Luther was inspired by the Holy Spirit on doctrine you agree with but he got a “pile of other stuff wrong” which are the things you disagree with. Soooooo, according to your theory, Luther was only inspired on the things YOU say he was inspired on.

When Luther taught those things which were Biblical he was preaching the TRUTH.

But Luther WAS an educated Roman Catholic Priest/Theologian. What God RESTORED through his ministry was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that Roman Catholicism had forgotten/ignored/discarded. Eph 2:8,9 - i.e. Salvation / being Born Again of the Holy Spirit IS BY FAITH, and that FAITH is Gifted by God.

..Why did the Holy Spirit stop inspiring Luther up to the point he started to got things wrong?

Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness has been addressed in subsequent years by others, now that the TRUE foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ: (Salvation by FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS) has been established.

God is STILL restoring his visible church, line upon line, precept upon precept, and will continue the growth until the end of the age. The "Charismatic Outpouring" which deeply affected the Roman Catholic Churches, was the last major worldwide move of God by the Holy Spirit. It set a LOT of Roman Catholics free of their religious bondage.

How do we know when the Spirit stopped inspiring him?

Easy - when he continued to teach NON-BIBLICAL FOOLISHNESS that continues to be part of Roman Catholic "tradition".

Do the men of the Assembly of God get anything wrong?

Of course!! they're nothing but human "theologians" just like the "Magisterium" with their ignorances, funnny hats, and religious politics. I bet they're sorry that they elected Bergoglio to be their representative. He's quite the "Universalist" these days.

The HOLY SPIRIT is the One (the ONLY ONE) that leads into TRUTH.
 
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theefaith

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Why does it need be in the Bible?
Where does the Bible say all divinely revealed truth are in the Bible?
Where does the Bible say the word of God is limited to the Bible alone?
What is the source of truth for Christians?
What is the rule of faith for Christians?
What is the pillar and ground of truth?
Thanks
 

theefaith

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Faith alone! That means faith alone! Period!
No sacramentse ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21
No obedience of faith rom 16:26
No repentance Lk 3:3
No suffering Mk 8:34 Mk 10:21 Phil 1:29
No hope rom 8:24
No charity 1 cor 13:2 1 cor 13:13
No love of God duet. 6:5
Prayer matt 7:7
No grace Jn 1:16-17
No patience Heb 10:36
No nothing but faith alone!
Alone means alone!

Rom 8: 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13

And never “faith alone”!

Rev. 2 I know thy works! I thought faith alone is all that mattered?

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

How can salvation be by faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone?

Faith alone?

1 cor 13:2 and 13:13, Phil 1:29, James 2:24 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 oppose faith alone!

1 cor 13:2 “all faith” without charity avails nothing, nada!

“Faith alone” is heresy!
Hersey is treason against God!
 

Marymog

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When Luther taught those things which were Biblical he was preaching the TRUTH.

But Luther WAS an educated Roman Catholic Priest/Theologian. What God RESTORED through his ministry was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that Roman Catholicism had forgotten/ignored/discarded. Eph 2:8,9 - i.e. Salvation / being Born Again of the Holy Spirit IS BY FAITH, and that FAITH is Gifted by God.



Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness has been addressed in subsequent years by others, now that the TRUE foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ: (Salvation by FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS) has been established.

God is STILL restoring his visible church, line upon line, precept upon precept, and will continue the growth until the end of the age. The "Charismatic Outpouring" which deeply affected the Roman Catholic Churches, was the last major worldwide move of God by the Holy Spirit. It set a LOT of Roman Catholics free of their religious bondage.



Easy - when he continued to teach NON-BIBLICAL FOOLISHNESS that continues to be part of Roman Catholic "tradition".



Of course!! they're nothing but human "theologians" just like the "Magisterium" with their ignorances, funnny hats, and religious politics. I bet they're sorry that they elected Bergoglio to be their representative. He's quite the "Universalist" these days.

The HOLY SPIRIT is the One (the ONLY ONE) that leads into TRUTH.
Soooo let me see if I understand you correctly: Luther was guided by the Holy Spirit into the TRUTH in SOME things but when it came to “Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness” the Holy Spirit STOP guiding Luther???? FASCINATING….

But then, years later, the Holy Spirit randomly started guiding other men into the truth and little by little He is revealing the truth to Christianity. He hasn’t revealed all the truth to the leadership at the Assembly of God denomination but they have part of the truth. That is a fascinating theory.

Sooooooo, when are you going to reveal THE truth to the rest of us? Obviously since you KNOW that Luther and the men of your denomination don’t have the full truth you must know what the truth is.

Curious Mary
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Soooo let me see if I understand you correctly: Luther was guided by the Holy Spirit into the TRUTH in SOME things but when it came to “Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness” the Holy Spirit STOP guiding Luther???? FASCINATING….

But then, years later, the Holy Spirit randomly started guiding other men into the truth and little by little He is revealing the truth to Christianity. He hasn’t revealed all the truth to the leadership at the Assembly of God denomination but they have part of the truth. That is a fascinating theory.

Sooooooo, when are you going to reveal THE truth to the rest of us? Obviously since you KNOW that Luther and the men of your denomination don’t have the full truth you must know what the truth is.

Curious Mary

Chuckle!!!! WIthout the TRUTH of EPh 2:8,9 you've got NOTHING. it took the Roman Church 1000 years or more to take spiritual Christianity down into spiritual death under Papal corruptuin and political chicanery. Salvation BY FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS (religious or otherwise) is the absolute FOUNDATION of the Christian Faith. So where would you expect God to start????

You have a perfectly good Bible at your disposal - READ IT!!!!
 
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Marymog

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Chuckle!!!! WIthout the TRUTH of EPh 2:8,9 you've got NOTHING. it took the Roman Church 1000 years or more to take spiritual Christianity down into spiritual death under Papal corruptuin and political chicanery. Salvation BY FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS (religious or otherwise) is the absolute FOUNDATION of the Christian Faith. So where would you expect God to start????

You have a perfectly good Bible at your disposal - READ IT!!!!
Bob, your killing me here.

Faith without works is dead…..READ IT.

Sooooo do you believe that the Reformers brought Christianity out of “spiritual death”? Let’s not forget the Reformers had their own “corruption and policy also chicanery” so be carful how you answer that question.

Speaking of answering questions. Are you going to at least TRY and answer my questions: WAS Luther guided by the Holy Spirit into the TRUTH in SOME things but when it came to “Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness” did the Holy Spirit STOP guiding Luther???? When are you going to reveal THE truth to the rest of us?
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Bob, your killing me here.

Faith without works is dead…..READ IT.

This is the common "Works Salvation" rationalization. James is a "litmus test". the REAL MESSAGE is: "If what you CALL faith produces NOTHING in terms of "Good works" as a result of it's intrinsic nature, then what you CALL Faith, isn't "Biblical FAITH" at all (Dead faith).

Roman Catholics (as they did in Luther's day, and still do) put the cart before the horse, trying to do "Good Works" to "Prove"/"Demonstrate" that they have "Faith".

Biblical CHristians, on the other hand follow the EPh 2:8,9 truth, and after repenting, and crying out to God in the FAITH THAT HE GIFTS, are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, and Born again. THEN - as a result of the indwelling Holy SPirit, their life CHanges, and Good works simply "Flow out of them", because that's the nature of Biblical Faith.

Sooooo do you believe that the Reformers brought Christianity out of “spiritual death”?

Absolutely!! under Roman Catholic mis-management and corruption, Biblical ignorance, and political motivations (after they became the FIRST PROTESTANTS by throwing the Orthodox Christian Church under the bus), "Biblical Christianity" was pretty much DEAD within the Roman system.

Let’s not forget the Reformers had their own “corruption and policy also chicanery” so be carful how you answer that question.

Psst!!!! - HUMANS WERE INVOLVED. And Humans (including "Magisteriums") never create anything but confusion. You can see that from Genesis to Revelation if you bother to read your Bible (without your Catholic glasses on).

The Jews had God's Law, The Prophets, and look at the absolute MESS they made (and are still making) of everything, leading to the MURDER of God's own Son because He didn't fit their "Theology".

Speaking of answering questions. Are you going to at least TRY and answer my questions: WAS Luther guided by the Holy Spirit into the TRUTH in SOME things but when it came to “Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness” did the Holy Spirit STOP guiding Luther????

PAY ATTENTION!!!
WHat Luther brought forward was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that Roman Catholicism had ELIMINATED - Eph 2:8,9. Salvation BY FAITH (Gifted by GOD), and not by works. If you're going to start fixing something that's BROKEN, you start with the MOST IMPORTANT THING, right??

When are you going to reveal THE truth to the rest of us?

(Chuckle) - I'm NOT, silly. The Holy SPirit is continuing to do it in His own time, and according to His own schedule. He brought a world-wide cross denominational refreshing in the Church back in the '70s that was embraced by MANY Catholics (including many in the Management in Rome), and folks in other denominations all over the world. It was called it "the Charismatic Outpouring", and many in the Catholic Priesthood, and Convents were deeply involved, many becoming Christians for the first time. There have been times of refreshing many times in the last 500 years.
 
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Marymog

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Roman Catholics (as they did in Luther's day, and still do) put the cart before the horse, trying to do "Good Works" to "Prove"/"Demonstrate" that they have "Faith".........
Absolutly false Bob.....The main point in James is that our works “complete” our faith and keep it alive. And inasmuch as our works are necessary for a living faith, they are necessary for keeping us in a saving relationship with God. This is why James can write, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” A Catholic, therefore, is justified in his appeal to James 2:24 in support of his belief that works are necessary for salvation!
 

Marymog

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Absolutely!! under Roman Catholic mis-management and corruption, Biblical ignorance, and political motivations (after they became the FIRST PROTESTANTS by throwing the Orthodox Christian Church under the bus), "Biblical Christianity" was pretty much DEAD within the Roman system.....
Hold on....HOLD ON Bob....

Protestantism has MULTIPLE different interpretations of the same passage from Scripture. Sooooooo which one of those Protestant denominations are NOT biblically ignorant? Which Protestant denomination doesn't have mis-management, political motivations and corruption? The denomination YOU belong to?
 
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Marymog

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Psst!!!! - HUMANS WERE INVOLVED. And Humans (including "Magisteriums") never create anything but confusion. You can see that from Genesis to Revelation if you bother to read your Bible (without your Catholic glasses on)......
Well, I presume you are a human and you are involved in your interpreation of Scripture sooooo are you creating "confusion"??? What glasses are you wearing Bob? you are the pot calling the kettle black....
 
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Marymog

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PAY ATTENTION!!!
WHat Luther brought forward was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING that Roman Catholicism had ELIMINATED - Eph 2:8,9. Salvation BY FAITH (Gifted by GOD), and not by works. If you're going to start fixing something that's BROKEN, you start with the MOST IMPORTANT THING, right??....
Ok.....soooo according to your theory Luther was guided by the Holy Spirit to once and for all debunk the Catholic Church teaching that faith without works is dead. After the Spirit guided Luther into that 'truth' the Spirit stop guiding Luther since he still held onto Unimportant "Religious" stuff like Sacraments, Blessed Virgins, Purgatorial fantasies, pagentry, bells, smells, canned prayers to Saints, and a host of other procedural foolishness”!

That is a fascinating theory....
 
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Marymog

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(Chuckle) - I'm NOT, silly. The Holy SPirit is continuing to do it in His own time, and according to His own schedule. He brought a world-wide cross denominational refreshing in the Church back in the '70s that was embraced by MANY Catholics (including many in the Management in Rome), and folks in other denominations all over the world. It was called it "the Charismatic Outpouring", and many in the Catholic Priesthood, and Convents were deeply involved, many becoming Christians for the first time. There have been times of refreshing many times in the last 500 years.
Wow...that is a fascinating theory. Who taught you that?
 

Bob Carabbio

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Absolutly false Bob.....The main point in James is that our works “complete” our faith and keep it alive. And inasmuch as our works are necessary for a living faith, they are necessary for keeping us in a saving relationship with God. This is why James can write, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” A Catholic, therefore, is justified in his appeal to James 2:24 in support of his belief that works are necessary for salvation!

WHich is contrary to the teaching of the Bible, which is that WORKS are the RESULT of Salvation (being Born again of the Holy SPirit). Typical Catholic "Cart before the horse" thinking.