@Heart2Soul, I am curious, do you now agree that Jesus was talking about Himself when He says words, "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36)?
A SPIN-OFF from "JESUS IS GOD PART 2"
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And check this out. It is so cool. John the Baptist had sent his disciples to ask Jesus if He was the Messiah. This is what Jesus said:
Luke 7:18-23
18Then John’s disciples informed him about all these things. 19So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, “Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?”
20When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to ask, ‘Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?’ ”
21At that very hour Jesus healed many people of their diseases, afflictions, and evil spirits, and He gave sight to many who were blind. 22So He replied, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepersb are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. 23Blessed is the one who does not fall away on account of Me.c”
So even here Jesus pointed to His actions rather then just going out and saying it. If He did directly first in person those words, it was seldom. People still prolly wouldn't believe it. It is the actions that prove who Jesus is and all that He could do.
Luke 7:18-23
18Then John’s disciples informed him about all these things. 19So John called two of his disciples and sent them to ask the Lord, “Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?”
20When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to ask, ‘Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?’ ”
21At that very hour Jesus healed many people of their diseases, afflictions, and evil spirits, and He gave sight to many who were blind. 22So He replied, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepersb are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor. 23Blessed is the one who does not fall away on account of Me.c”
So even here Jesus pointed to His actions rather then just going out and saying it. If He did directly first in person those words, it was seldom. People still prolly wouldn't believe it. It is the actions that prove who Jesus is and all that He could do.
@Mayflower I didn't know either of the tunes but they are both really good, I think...This is beautiful. Not the melody I know for the song, but I think this fits the words more.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Yes.
The argument He was making was that His actions proved He was His Son, i.e. He behaved the way His Father does as proof of it. I think this passage was Him dealing with the question even though He hadn't stated it outright. The Pharisees were perceptive enough to know what some of His statements implied, so they were calling Him on it, but not in faith like Peter and Thomas did but rather in accusation and disbelief. So this was Him fielding the question through scripture, as always, and challenging them to prove Him wrong based on His works, which they couldn't do.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Prolly not, LoL. And that was the problem. Only if they saw it by faith would they accept it anyway, because He was not coming in power at that time. This means He would be absolutely and without question proving it to no one yet. It would be perceivable only to those who, as He said in His analogy, were "His sheep," and thus could hear His voice.
And I agree His actions and words are both important. The scriptures you shared are still Jesus indirectly saying He is the Son of God though. Ask why He only quoted Himself saying that He was "the Son of God". What He originally said to the pharisees was "I and the Father are One." Why didn't He just say "I am God's Son" directly the first time?
Maybe this is an important point. Find a direct first person, non implying passage where Jesus says "I am the Son of God". He says He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the Word, everything that defines He is the Son of God, even saying "I and the Father are One" equals this... And He definitely is the Son of God. AMEN!!!!!
But the pharisees would have had him condemned at the beginning if he had directly said that. And they still wouldn't have believed.
@Mayflower The Deity of Christ is so strongly present in Scripture.....
@Mayflower It's indeed something that is gloriously and overwhelmingly present, when one reads...Amen I definitely agree.
I just realized how evident this shows the Trinity too. This is why it is so important to understand these two lines mean the same here. Wow.
God in Three Persons: Matthew 28.19; John's Gospel, esp. chapters 13 thru 17; Romans 8; John's First Epistle......
Yes.
Now, look at Lord Jesus Christ's words "but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father" (John 10:38).
The Lord provides a fall back position, not a primary position. Belief/faith in Jesus is the primary position (see "though you do not believe me"). The works of Jesus are the fall back position for the passage (see "believe the works").
In other words, believing the Word, Jesus, is the primary position of the John 10 passage.
The Apostle John wrote "there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written" (John 21:25).
Therefore, since Lord Jesus Christ says "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36), then the greatness of God says "I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36)!
"I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36) is a direct quote of the Son of the Living God for the Word of God says that He said it.
Is the Word of God enough for you, @Mayflower?
Oh I definitely agree the Word of God says it. Where we disagree is about the English language. What I am saying, and I guess a couple others here also, is Jesus said this indirectly by quoting Himself to the pharisees rather then all out saying this. And I already told you my thoughts on this that the two quotes Jesus said mean the same thing here. If the pharisees lived with Jesus and they were all the same ones following him around, maybe He said it elsewhere. I don't believe so.
Now check out Heart2Soul's passages and how clearly direct Jesus calls Himself "Son of Man" and you will see the point she is trying to make. Otherwise, we need to agree to disagree here. I believe we are on the same wave length concerning Jesus does say He is the Son of God, but there are reasons He spoke how He did.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think he did the same thing when he told a man his sins were forgiven.
Only God can forgive sins. Which is another reason the jewish religious system persecuted and wanted to kill him.
Same as when he told them, Before Abraham was, I am (in the greek, it literally says I am and have always existed)
Amen. Only God can forgive sins.
Matthew 9:4-6
4And Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, said, “Why are you thinking evil in your hearts? 5For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—then He *said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, pick up your stretcher and go home.”
In the original post by @Heart2Soul, Jesus does not say I am the Son of Man in a single passage - not in any of the passages in this thread, but Jesus does refer to Himself as the Son of Man.
Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God, and here are passages where Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God.
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live" (John 5:25).
"This sickness is not to end in death, but for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified by it" (John 11:4).
Note a difference in how Lord Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of Man, such as "the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands"
(Matthew 17:12) for God cannot die.
Behold, a HUGE difference between Jesus referring to himself as Son of Man in some instances and Son of God in some instances with:
"I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36).
The HUGE difference here is that Jesus says that He says "I am the Son of God"!
Lord Jesus did not say "I said, 'I and the Father are one'" as recorded in John 10:36 - which I am using to hearken back to your earlier writing.
Truly, He says "I said, ‘I am the Son of God’" (John 10:36).
Now, see where your claim leads.
When Jesus says "I said" as recorded in John 10:36, then you claim "maybe He said it elsewhere. I don't believe so"; therefore, in effect, you wrote that you do not believe that which Jesus says is Truth and Life - His words (John 14:6, John 6:63).
Indirect is all I am saying. Unless anyone else wants to comment, I am done repeating this. Jesus is the Son of God and He proves that. I don't need to prove anything to you. But I agree with Heart2 Soul and Hidden now. I hadn't even noticed before. Thank you @Heart2Soul it is pretty cool.
Perhaps it hasn't been "revealed" to him yet. Pray that the Holy Spirit will open their eyes so they might see.Indirect is all I am saying. Unless anyone else wants to comment, I am done repeating this. Jesus is the Son of God and He proves that. I don't need to prove anything to you. But I agree with Heart2 Soul and Hidden now. I hadn't even noticed before. Thank you @Heart2Soul it is pretty cool.
Kermos, you are a person who likes to interject your opinion of what others are implying....I have not "in effect " said I do not believe that Jesus is the Truth and Life...
You are deceived by your interpretation of what this OP is about...
Let me try one more time...
The Son of Man is a title that was used exclusively by Jesus - His disciples never addressed Him as such. Jesus used it to emphasize His humanity. The title goes back to the Book of Daniel where the Son of Man would inherit the everlasting kingdom of God. It is a designation of the Messiah. At His trial Jesus acknowledged that He indeed was the Son of Man - the one who would bring in God's everlasting kingdom. When the religious leaders heard this they accused Him of blasphemy - making Himself equal with God. The purpose of the title seems to be Jesus' own emphasis on His humanity.
What I am sharing is that He is the Son of God, and He is the Son of Man....
I have read all the scriptures you have supplied and still conclude the same as I did in the OP.
Now stop accusing me of denying Jesus....
This is a study...not a debate...contribute what you believe...but don't attack what others are sharing....
As I said this is a hidden wisdom which I have just discovered myself through study, prayer, and meditation.
Either join the group and contribute your beliefs without falsely accusing others or leave the thread.
Your accusation is very offensive and is not welcome.
Thanks.
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