The Rapture Of The Church

Just my two cents. I think the rapture is in the scriptures I hope I did not tread over any other post that have the same understanding as I. Just as the word Trinity is not in the Bible the concept of the oneness of the Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit are. Just like the word Cross is not written in the Old Testament, but it is if one looks for the hidden truth. For the Tabernacle that God gave plans for Moses to build, and having the tribes encamped around them in the way God wanted, showed the pattern of the cross viewed from up above. Even if the Israelites could see this pattern they still would not understand it. For the cross was not yet invented for a tool of punishment. God would not reveal this truth untile the proper time. This oneness of God to was later revealed in its proper time thriough Jesus. Also the same as the rock that Moses was to strike and water would come out for the People to drink, then from that point Moses was to speak to the rock and then water would come forth for the people. This rock was a type of Jesus the Christ, who would be strucked and die on the cross, but then on out. One who hung their sins on Jesus would only have to ONLY speak to Jesus for the watering of the Holy Spirit. This concept that the Christians will be Raptured is what I beleive is one of those Hidden truths. For Paul in (1Thess.5: 9) "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. We know as Christians we suffer and have suffered wrath for our beleiving in the salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. So what wrath is Paul talking of? It is the wrath from God, that Paul is talking of, not the wrath of man. For the true beleiver is a part of the body of Jesus through the Holy Spirit, doing his little part in the spreading of the good news of salvation through the gifts from the Holy Spirit. Now, the Thessalonians believed they had missed out on the Coming of the Lord and the gathering unto Him. (2Thess. 2: 1-3) This Coming of the Lord is not the same as the Second Coming as in (Rev. 19:11-21) The reason I beleive this, is that the Thessalonians new of what Paul had told them before he had to write this letter to them. (1Thess. 5: 9) However, because of some false letters claiming to be from Paul and some false prophets claiming to them that they missed the Coming of the Lord Jesus. They had the need for Paul to straighten it out for them. Paul therefore, lets them know in (2Thess. 2: 7) that lawlessness is always working and that is why they suffer in their faith. However, the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until He is taken out of the way, and then the Lawless one will be revealed whom Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming. Now , the one who holds back lawlessness is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit works through the beleiver in the atonment of Jesus the Christ. So Paul eases their troubled minds, by letting them know that if they remain in the truth / Holy Spirit, that when it is taken out of the way, they to will be taken out of the way. For we know that in Revelation the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, and the Seven Bowls of wrath or from God. In (Rev. 3:10) "Since you have kept my Comand to endure patiently, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. The test is the wrath from God to all people who live on the earth through out the world. If we are there on the earth we will suffer. Again note the words THE WHOLE WORLD / THOSE WHO LIVE ON THE EARTH. Now John in (Rev. 4:1) is a type or symbolizes the full body of Christians who live and died and those who are living. "After this I looked and there before me was a door standing open in heaven, and the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." Note the words, (after this) God is now going to reveal the things after the Age of Grace / the Church age / the fulfillment of the Gentiles (Rom. 11: 25) Now God is going to Redeem Israel as he told it in (Dan. 9: 24- 27) This is the Seveneth week. Sixty nine have been fulfulled. I believe that the Rapture is revealed in the scriptures just as the Trinity though the words are not used. I can also side with those who beleive in the mid trib. Theroy. I can see God having mercy on those who may have missed the first taking away. Therefore, taking them away before the last 3 1/2 comes about, Which is the start of Gods wrath upon the whole world and those who LIVE on the earth. However, I do not beleive in the post trib. theroy. due to the Fact we who are in the body of Christ Jesus cannot, will not suffer the wrath that will come from God. I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. Nevertheless, how ever God choses to keep us from this hour of TESTING (Wrath) One should NOT lose sight over the mission we all have been given by Jesus, as we are living here on this earth. Love each other as Jesus loved us. Thus the fruit of the Holy Spirit will manifest itself through us. God bless us all in our mission.

(excepttruth;64860)
Just my two cents. I think the rapture is in the scriptures I hope I did not tread over any other post that have the same understanding as I. Just as the word Trinity is not in the Bible the concept of the oneness of the Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit are. Just like the word Cross is not written in the Old Testament, but it is if one looks for the hidden truth. For the Tabernacle that God gave plans for Moses to build, and having the tribes encamped around them in the way God wanted, showed the pattern of the cross viewed from up above. Even if the Israelites could see this pattern they still would not understand it. For the cross was not yet invented for a tool of punishment. God would not reveal this truth untile the proper time. This oneness of God to was later revealed in its proper time thriough Jesus. Also the same as the rock that Moses was to strike and water would come out for the People to drink, then from that point Moses was to speak to the rock and then water would come forth for the people. This rock was a type of Jesus the Christ, who would be strucked and die on the cross, but then on out. One who hung their sins on Jesus would only have to ONLY speak to Jesus for the watering of the Holy Spirit. This concept that the Christians will be Raptured is what I beleive is one of those Hidden truths. For Paul in (1Thess.5: 9) "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. We know as Christians we suffer and have suffered wrath for our beleiving in the salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. So what wrath is Paul talking of? It is the wrath from God, that Paul is talking of, not the wrath of man. For the true beleiver is a part of the body of Jesus through the Holy Spirit, doing his little part in the spreading of the good news of salvation through the gifts from the Holy Spirit. Now, the Thessalonians believed they had missed out on the Coming of the Lord and the gathering unto Him. (2Thess. 2: 1-3) This Coming of the Lord is not the same as the Second Coming as in (Rev. 19:11-21) The reason I beleive this, is that the Thessalonians new of what Paul had told them before he had to write this letter to them. (1Thess. 5: 9) However, because of some false letters claiming to be from Paul and some false prophets claiming to them that they missed the Coming of the Lord Jesus. They had the need for Paul to straighten it out for them. Paul therefore, lets them know in (2Thess. 2: 7) that lawlessness is always working and that is why they suffer in their faith. However, the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until He is taken out of the way, and then the Lawless one will be revealed whom Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming. Now , the one who holds back lawlessness is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit works through the beleiver in the atonment of Jesus the Christ. So Paul eases their troubled minds, by letting them know that if they remain in the truth / Holy Spirit, that when it is taken out of the way, they to will be taken out of the way. For we know that in Revelation the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, and the Seven Bowls of wrath or from God. In (Rev. 3:10) "Since you have kept my Comand to endure patiently, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. The test is the wrath from God to all people who live on the earth through out the world. If we are there on the earth we will suffer. Again note the words THE WHOLE WORLD / THOSE WHO LIVE ON THE EARTH. Now John in (Rev. 4:1) is a type or symbolizes the full body of Christians who live and died and those who are living. "After this I looked and there before me was a door standing open in heaven, and the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." Note the words, (after this) God is now going to reveal the things after the Age of Grace / the Church age / the fulfillment of the Gentiles (Rom. 11: 25) Now God is going to Redeem Israel as he told it in (Dan. 9: 24- 27) This is the Seveneth week. Sixty nine have been fulfulled. I believe that the Rapture is revealed in the scriptures just as the Trinity though the words are not used. I can also side with those who beleive in the mid trib. Theroy. I can see God having mercy on those who may have missed the first taking away. Therefore, taking them away before the last 3 1/2 comes about, Which is the start of Gods wrath upon the whole world and those who LIVE on the earth. However, I do not beleive in the post trib. theroy. due to the Fact we who are in the body of Christ Jesus cannot, will not suffer the wrath that will come from God. I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. Nevertheless, how ever God choses to keep us from this hour of TESTING (Wrath) One should NOT lose sight over the mission we all have been given by Jesus, as we are living here on this earth. Love each other as Jesus loved us. Thus the fruit of the Holy Spirit will manifest itself through us. God bless us all in our mission.
Lloydnook:I concur with this view.

(excepttruth;64860)
Just my two cents. I think the rapture is in the scriptures I hope I did not tread over any other post that have the same understanding as I. Just as the word Trinity is not in the Bible the concept of the oneness of the Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit are. Just like the word Cross is not written in the Old Testament, but it is if one looks for the hidden truth. For the Tabernacle that God gave plans for Moses to build, and having the tribes encamped around them in the way God wanted, showed the pattern of the cross viewed from up above. Even if the Israelites could see this pattern they still would not understand it. For the cross was not yet invented for a tool of punishment. God would not reveal this truth untile the proper time. This oneness of God to was later revealed in its proper time thriough Jesus. Also the same as the rock that Moses was to strike and water would come out for the People to drink, then from that point Moses was to speak to the rock and then water would come forth for the people. This rock was a type of Jesus the Christ, who would be strucked and die on the cross, but then on out. One who hung their sins on Jesus would only have to ONLY speak to Jesus for the watering of the Holy Spirit. This concept that the Christians will be Raptured is what I beleive is one of those Hidden truths. For Paul in (1Thess.5: 9) "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. We know as Christians we suffer and have suffered wrath for our beleiving in the salvation through our Lord Jesus the Christ. So what wrath is Paul talking of? It is the wrath from God, that Paul is talking of, not the wrath of man. For the true beleiver is a part of the body of Jesus through the Holy Spirit, doing his little part in the spreading of the good news of salvation through the gifts from the Holy Spirit. Now, the Thessalonians believed they had missed out on the Coming of the Lord and the gathering unto Him. (2Thess. 2: 1-3) This Coming of the Lord is not the same as the Second Coming as in (Rev. 19:11-21) The reason I beleive this, is that the Thessalonians new of what Paul had told them before he had to write this letter to them. (1Thess. 5: 9) However, because of some false letters claiming to be from Paul and some false prophets claiming to them that they missed the Coming of the Lord Jesus. They had the need for Paul to straighten it out for them. Paul therefore, lets them know in (2Thess. 2: 7) that lawlessness is always working and that is why they suffer in their faith. However, the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until He is taken out of the way, and then the Lawless one will be revealed whom Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming. Now , the one who holds back lawlessness is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit works through the beleiver in the atonment of Jesus the Christ. So Paul eases their troubled minds, by letting them know that if they remain in the truth / Holy Spirit, that when it is taken out of the way, they to will be taken out of the way. For we know that in Revelation the Seven Seals, Seven Trumpets, and the Seven Bowls of wrath or from God. In (Rev. 3:10) "Since you have kept my Comand to endure patiently, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. The test is the wrath from God to all people who live on the earth through out the world. If we are there on the earth we will suffer. Again note the words THE WHOLE WORLD / THOSE WHO LIVE ON THE EARTH. Now John in (Rev. 4:1) is a type or symbolizes the full body of Christians who live and died and those who are living. "After this I looked and there before me was a door standing open in heaven, and the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this." Note the words, (after this) God is now going to reveal the things after the Age of Grace / the Church age / the fulfillment of the Gentiles (Rom. 11: 25) Now God is going to Redeem Israel as he told it in (Dan. 9: 24- 27) This is the Seveneth week. Sixty nine have been fulfulled. I believe that the Rapture is revealed in the scriptures just as the Trinity though the words are not used. I can also side with those who beleive in the mid trib. Theroy. I can see God having mercy on those who may have missed the first taking away. Therefore, taking them away before the last 3 1/2 comes about, Which is the start of Gods wrath upon the whole world and those who LIVE on the earth. However, I do not beleive in the post trib. theroy. due to the Fact we who are in the body of Christ Jesus cannot, will not suffer the wrath that will come from God. I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to TEST those who LIVE on the earth. Nevertheless, how ever God choses to keep us from this hour of TESTING (Wrath) One should NOT lose sight over the mission we all have been given by Jesus, as we are living here on this earth. Love each other as Jesus loved us. Thus the fruit of the Holy Spirit will manifest itself through us. God bless us all in our mission.
Hah, but the word cross is in the NT. And the word Rapture does not exist anywhere in the OT and the NT. Rapture is a false doctrine made by men and God hates flying-away doctrine to be preached to His children. (Ezekiel 13:20) Thessalonica has misunderstood Paul and they kick him out, because they did not wish to communicate with Paul. (Philippians 4:15-16) If they really understood Paul, Paul would not have the need to write this... II Thessalonians 1-5. However II Thessalonians 2 is very important, It is concerning and saying that Satan will come back before Christ does.Again God hates Rapture. Period!I rather agree with God's Words over the word of men anyday. Period!

Sorry excepttruthThe rapture doctrine is TRASH, and it will lead you to worship the false christ. You may believe it if you wish, the ChristianityBoard does NOT. We do not even argue it.If you haven't seen this yet, you need to read it: http://www.christianityboard.com/?page=rapture

(Jordan;64880)
Hah, but the word cross is in the NT. And the word Rapture does not exist anywhere in the OT and the NT. Rapture is a false doctrine made by men and God hates flying-away doctrine to be preached to His children. (Ezekiel 13:20) Thessalonica has misunderstood Paul and they kick him out, because they did not wish to communicate with Paul. (Philippians 4:15-16) If they really understood Paul, Paul would not have the need to write this... II Thessalonians 1-5. However II Thessalonians 2 is very important, It is concerning and saying that Satan will come back before Christ does.Again God hates Rapture. Period!I rather agree with God's Words over the word of men anyday. Period!
Again God hates Rapture. Period!I rather agree with God's Words over the word of men anyday. Period! __________________"It is better to be stuck in a RELATIONSHIP with God than a RELATIONSHIP with a religion of men."excepttruth: I have a relationship with MY God Jesus were did I say I had a relationship with a religion of men. "In life, there is only confusions for what men thinks of women, as well as women thinks of men. All is just a fantasy, as nobody truly understands anyone as life becomes more foolishness each day and keeps going to be worse." exceptruth: This statement is foolish. If we cannot try to understand each other, whether it be of different gender or not, what hope is there to bring out the love of God towards those we do not understand fully? what hope do we have understanding God in His scripture. The foolishness is not trying to understand, not only each other, but most of all our Lord Jesus the Christ. Freedom of Choice? "What good is Freedom of Choice if I have to deny my God to have it." EXCEPTRUTH: Who says to have freedom of choice is to deny God? For it was God who gave freedom of choice so that we could express our love towards God willingly. Not preprogramed like a robot. "The main responsibility is taking care of thy soul. If you can't take care of it, how can you take care of yourself?" excepttruth: Your soul is yourself. If one is in Christ Jesus ones soul is taken care of. Do you believe in the Trinity doctrine? If so, show me the word Trinity. This Doctrine was made by men also. Nevertheless, I will not judge ones faith in the Lord Jesus just because I disagree with the doctrine. I happen to beleive in the Trinity and the scriptures that give undrstanding to show the oneness of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, if I use the logic you are using concerning the rapture theory to the Doctrine of the Trinity. I would have to say the Trinity is false. However, I am not God and will not post statements that inject judgement on those who my disagree with me on a subject of any doctrine. Also, I do not understand how bringing out the view of the raptue will keep people from reading the Bible. This is like saying not to bring up the subject of hell, for it might turn people off, because it brings out the wrath of God on ones sinful characture. I did not start this thread I only responeded. May God have mercy on all of our near sightedness, in understanding what is truth and what is not truth. Thank you Lord for your loving kindness (Grace) as we grow towards a clear understanding of our relationship we have with you.

not to intrupt all this but you are replying to Jordans signature its on all his posts it was not in reply to you or anyone thats why there is a line there thats where his post to you stops "I rather agree with God's Words over the word of men anyday. Period!" thats the end of his post to you the rest is on all his posts its his signature we all have one thats his. Now about Rapture its a devils doctrine a lie of men there is no comparison to Rapture trinity is taught in scripture its just not called that Word. Rapture doctrine is not taught anywhere and in fact contradicts Gods Word he returns once at the End the 7th trump and no where does he ever say different please read the link Tom gave you above its our site statement on Rapture..... this is a non rapture site

(Christina;64936)
not to intrupt all this but you are replying to Jordans signature its on all his posts it was not in reply to you or anyone thats why there is a line there thats where his post to you stops "I rather agree with God's Words over the word of men anyday. Period!" thats the end of his post to you the rest is on all his posts its his signature we all have one thats his. Now about Rapture its a devils doctrine a lie of men there is no comparison to Rapture trinity is taught in scripture its just not called that Word. Rapture doctrine is not taught anywhere and in fact contradicts Gods Word he returns once at the End the 7th trump and no where does he ever say different please read the link Tom gave you above its our site statement on Rapture..... this is a non rapture site
So why is this thread on the board? I have read the link that Tom gave. I just disagree. Thats all. I have no problem with this site not believing i the Pre-Trib. or the Mid-Trib. Thats ok to. I can also make the claim that the word Rapture though not used in the scripture is taught in the scripture as I have posted. Nevertheless, I have no problem not discussing this topic. However, the board being as it is on this topic. Should not allow this thread if it does not wish to discuss or debate the issue if it truly feels that it is of the Devil. I simply stated my view point on the subject. I do not believe it is of the devil nor do I imply that if someone else disagrees, that they are spreading a lie of the Devils because they believe that we will be taken up at the end of the Great Tribulation. This accusation could be applied on each other for just not agreeing on any topic. Nevertheless, I will submit and appolagize If I have step over a boundry that may cause division among the saints of God. God bless us and have mercy on us, even in our dogminted views of how you may work in the gathering of your saints.

(excepttruth;64937)
So why is this thread on the board? I have read the link that Tom gave. I just disagree. Thats all. I have no problem with this site not believing i the Pre-Trib. or the Mid-Trib. Thats ok to. I can also make the claim that the word Rapture though not used in the scripture is taught in the scripture as I have posted. Nevertheless, I have no problem not discussing this topic. However, the board being as it is on this topic. Should not allow this thread if it does not wish to discuss or debate the issue if it truly feels that it is of the Devil. I simply stated my view point on the subject. I do not believe it is of the devil nor do I imply that if someone else disagrees, that they are spreading a lie of the Devils because they believe that we will be taken up at the end of the Great Tribulation. This accusation could be applied on each other for just not agreeing on any topic. Nevertheless, I will submit and appolagize If I have step over a boundry that may cause division among the saints of God. God bless us and have mercy on us, even in our dogminted views of how you may work in the gathering of your saints.
Lloydnook:I have to agree with this comment. Please state if there are forbidden (verboten) subjects related to God's Word!I have now seen two harsh comments re The Rapture, and also the "Board Statement" above.As far as I am concerned, as a Christ-One, the only subject I will not discuss is any aspersion on the Deity of Christ, and His Saving Sacrifice at Calvary!Would the Board Supervisors please advise.Lloydnook.

excepttruth,First, you might notice that this post started 05-21-2007, and has been resurrected several times since then. We do not always delete old posts because there can be some value in them. Two, part of the reason the administrator posted the "http://www.christianityboard.com/?page=rapture" thread was to give our view of the rapture. There was a time when we had to re-hash this topic continuously and it was taking all of staffs time. Now we just point to the board rapture thread and ask members to read it. Three, I don't see anything I said as harsh, it's just reality. These are important times we are living in and many good Christian people are going to be deceived. It's like watching your child getting ready to run into the street. You yell, "Stop!" You don't say it in a soft gentle voice.

(tomwebster;64956)
excepttruth,First, you might notice that this post started 05-21-2007, and has been resurrected several times since then. We do not always delete old posts because there can be some value in them. Two, part of the reason the administrator posted the "http://www.christianityboard.com/?page=rapture" thread was to give our view of the rapture. There was a time when we had to re-hash this topic continuously and it was taking all of staffs time. Now we just point to the board rapture thread and ask members to read it. Three, I don't see anything I said as harsh, it's just reality. These are important times we are living in and many good Christian people are going to be deceived. It's like watching your child getting ready to run into the street. You yell, "Stop!" You don't say it in a soft gentle voice.
Lloydnook:Tom; are you saying that your view of "the Rapture" is taboo; and that it is not to be debated?

I did notice when this thread was started. However I did not know as a new be,that the thread was a dead issue for us who just started. Even though I had read the decree concerning the Rapture from this board. I will leave this subject alone from now on out. Again Thank you for your time.

(Swamp Fox;65021)
I'll go ahead and make the official statement here, as those decisions ultimately end up on my desk. As you can see from our Rapture Statement, we're strongly opposed to the so-called "Pretribulational Rapture" which some have hijacked the term to mean "pre-trib" when they say Rapture. This is admittedly a part of the selection criteria for staff here, as it is a board statement that we all agree on.Obviously, folks are free to believe as they like. We tried simply banning this topic, but it was frankly uncomfortable for myself, the staff, and our members. It's an unfortunate thing, but sometimes we have to make the call as to whether a post is so far out there that it doesn't line up Biblically. We've maintained members that believe in the Rapture. You'll note that I myself even sometimes cite a scholar that believed in the Pre-trib Rapture.I do believe it's the devil's doctrine, and I won't hash out the Scriptures here because I've done a Bible Study and statement on the issue. However, I do also believe that if you truly know the Scriptures - and don't write them off like many people would have you do when it comes to Revelation and Daniel - that you have the tools you need and will know when the time comes. That's why we don't fully ban the topic. However, we've had issues in the past with repeated posts of people rehasing the same discussion over and over and posting pages of content and threads to basically force their views.That's why we walk this line.
Lloydnook:Thanks your comments here Swamp. I am going to study your comments re Scripture before any further work.

(lloydnook;65054)
Lloydnook:Thanks your comments here Swamp. I am going to study your comments re Scripture before any further work.
i have watch them prepare for 10 years [this bio and chem plan believe me it has been planned for many years]they are set up and ready .they need to rebuild the system into the world order so then they can bring in the mark..the vatican is part of this plan,so many things i need a typest to type for me..the thing is the trib is comming and you all can debate it till it overcomes you and you will not be prepared.faith is fine faith means if you die and suffer you will be ok for you know when you dei you will be in heaven..or with god..but we are warned.just like noaa was warned.i bet you alot of them people believed in god but did not believe noaa..why do you work today ..so you can buy food tommorow so you can pay your rent..why not have faith and go till people about god all day...cause you need to do something...may your flight be not in the winter or the sabbath...the winter is comming

bullfighter's
i have watch them prepare for 10 years [this bio and chem plan believe me it has been planned for many years]they are set up and ready .they need to rebuild the system into the world order so then they can bring in the mark..
Can you prove it (a world order) using scriptures? As for the mark, when was Ezekiel's vision of Israel's sealing, past or present? Why would the mark of the beast not be in the world today but is to come? In 68ad the time of John's revelation is when the warning was issued. Why issue a warning 1,900 yrs before it's time? Has there ever been a 2,000 yr prophecy in the bible? I think not.bullfighter's
the vatican is part of this plan,so many things i need a typest to type for me..the thing is the trib is comming and you all can debate it till it overcomes you and you will not be prepared.
You're misinterpreting the bible. Everything about the rapture/tribulation happens in heaven. Christ left the earth to prepare a heavenly place for us. That's why we need glorified bodies.bullfighter's
faith is fine faith means if you die and suffer you will be ok for you know when you dei you will be in heaven..or with god..but we are warned.just like noaa was warned.i bet you alot of them people believed in god but did not believe noaa..why do you work today ..so you can buy food tommorow so you can pay your rent..why not have faith and go till people about god all day...cause you need to do something...may your flight be not in the winter or the sabbath...the winter is comming
Do you think it's possible to enforce the "mark of the beast" in today's world? Can someone be stopped from buying and selling today? "My people perish for the lack of knowledge".

...... ,i do not think the world order is the beast but used by the beast.it is a man made want to be system,they have meeting once in awhile that is on public news..like the world economy system that is quite abit in the news latly..the world order or new world order they call it will not create the mark but will inforce it.[my mistake before for not been clear]the system will bring about laws to make it legal to punish those that do not take the mark..(precepts;65464)
bullfighter's Can you prove it (a world order)nor can i prove canada. using scriptures?.....no.... As for the mark, when was Ezekiel's vision of Israel's sealing, past or present? Why would the mark of the beast not be in the world today but is to come?..................i do believe the mark is here in baby form if you will call it that.and will become more involved in law and excepted blindly and willinly.kinda like the chip is not the mark but can be used to see who is bying selling and not keeping the mark..... In 68ad the time of John's revelation is when the warning was issued. Why issue a warning 1,900 yrs before it's time? Has there ever been a 2,000 yr prophecy in the bible? I think not.........not have any truth on thisbullfighter's You're misinterpreting the bible.....some times this has been true.... Everything about the rapture/tribulation happens in heaven.....not sure what you mean here..there is great dismay opon us soon... Christ left the earth to prepare a heavenly place for us. That's why we need glorified bodies......amen to that....bullfighter's Do you think it's possible to enforce the "mark of the beast" in today's world? Can someone be stopped from buying and selling today? "My people perish for the lack of knowledge".
...inforce may not be in the way we think inforce.this mark will be very misinterpited and will have very much consequinces on either side of it

bull's
...... ,i do not think the world order is the beast but used by the beast.it is a man made want to be system,they have meeting once in awhile that is on public news..like the world economy system that is quite abit in the news latly..the world order or new world order they call it will not create the mark but will inforce it.[my mistake before for not been clear]the system will bring about laws to make it legal to punish those that do not take the mark..
Where in the bible do you get these facts, or is it opinions?
bullfighter'sCan you prove it (a world order)nor can i prove canada. using scriptures?.....no....
So you're assuming this, I suppose.bull's
i do believe the mark is here in baby form if you will call it that.and will become more involved in law and excepted blindly and willinly.kinda like the chip is not the mark but can be used to see who is bying selling and not keeping the mark.....
Wow, you really do believe, that's the problem! Everything about the rapture/tribulation happens in heaven
.....not sure what you mean here..
What is there not to understand?bullfighter's
...inforce may not be in the way we think inforce.this mark will be very misinterpited and will have very much consequinces on either side of it
Again, how can one man stop the entire world from buying and selling? What about people living in the bushes, people that make their own income? How can he stop them unless he control the mind of the masses? Two will be grinding and one will be taken!

Question??There is always a great amount of discussion concerning the 'RAPTURE'. However, it seems that when someone uses the term Rapture, it is automatically assumed that they are referring to a pre-tribulation rapture. I, personally, believe in a post-tribulation rapture, and that the Rapture is synonymous with the Second Coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, and that the pre-tribulation doctrine is one of error, and even lends itself to Satan's attempt at deceiving people into becoming complacent. However, I still many times refer to the event of being 'caught up' to be with the Lord in the air, as the Rapture because the word rapture means 'caught up'. Is there some reason why someone using the word 'Rapture' is automatically pounced on as if they were Satan's emissaries? Am I missing something, or is the word 'Rapture' a sworn enemy? Is it possible or not possible to use the word Rapture without aligning with 'pre-trib' error?

(smitharbie;65904)
Question??There is always a great amount of discussion concerning the 'RAPTURE'. However, it seems that when someone uses the term Rapture, it is automatically assumed that they are referring to a pre-tribulation rapture. I, personally, believe in a post-tribulation rapture, and that the Rapture is synonymous with the Second Coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, and that the pre-tribulation doctrine is one of error, and even lends itself to Satan's attempt at deceiving people into becoming complacent. However, I still many times refer to the event of being 'caught up' to be with the Lord in the air, as the Rapture because the word rapture means 'caught up'. Is there some reason why someone using the word 'Rapture' is automatically pounced on as if they were Satan's emissaries? Am I missing something, or is the word 'Rapture' a sworn enemy? Is it possible or not possible to use the word Rapture without aligning with 'pre-trib' error?
Yes, the word Rapture is most associated these days with "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture and is a major error like you said.The word caught up in I Thessalonians 4:17 for the Greek means harpazō. Greek #7261) to seize, carry off by force2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly3) to snatch out or awayPre-Tribulation Rapture believers thinks they will fly away. In which the Greek word #4072 petomai comes in.1) to flyAnd God hates that doctrine of men!Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.Nobody on Earth will fly out of here. Christ is coming down to Earth. Why do I want to fly away when I know Christ is coming down to Earth?BTW I Thessalonians 4:16-17 speaks in a symbolic languages of I Corinthians 15:44 and I Corinthians 15:52-54 which speaks the same in a plain language. Hope that helps.

(Jordan;65906)
Yes, the word Rapture is most associated these days with "Pre-Tribulation" Rapture and is a major error like you said.The word caught up in I Thessalonians 4:17 for the Greek means harpazō. Greek #7261) to seize, carry off by force2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly3) to snatch out or awayPre-Tribulation Rapture believers thinks they will fly away. In which the Greek word #4072 petomai comes in.1) to flyAnd God hates that doctrine of men!Ezekiel 13:20 - Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.Nobody on Earth will fly out of here. Christ is coming down to Earth. Why do I want to fly away when I know Christ is coming down to Earth?BTW I Thessalonians 4:16-17 speaks in a symbolic languages of I Corinthians 15:44 and I Corinthians 15:52-54 which speaks the same in a plain language. Hope that helps.
Um, no, I don't think this actually answers my question. But thanks anyway.