CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Yes, I do maintain that Jeremiah is talking about two covenants. How does replacement theology follow from that? I don't think it does.
New Covenant only for Jews?
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So show the provisions of the new covenant for gentiles and what was the old covenant for gentiles? New means there was an old. I only know of ONE new covenant in the bible:
Jeremiah 31:31-36
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
When did the church, made up of believers of all nations, break the covenant in the desert.
but then again, I do not have the kerasz translation of the bible.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Taking words at their normal usage. Just like you read a newspaper, book, magazine. You don't allegorize these reading materials, why do you feel the need to allegorize what God said?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So are you saying there are now two new covenants? The one written specifically and explicitly in Jer. 31 and some other new covenant? where is that written?
I have shown you why you are wrong but you do not respond to it. I cannot write an objective rebuttal to a totally subjective hypothesis other than what I already have done. what you need to do is prove that Jeremiah, in mid statement speaks of two separate time periods and by impication is speaking of two separate people- Israel and then the church.
Other than saying this is so, you haven't done anything to empirically defend this. either historically, prophetically, grammatically, lingiustically and most important biblically.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
By twisting the normative use of days are coming and after those days and make them refer to two separate time periods. You have not even defined what days took place for "after those days" to happen! Jeremiah is referring ot all Jews and yet you make it apply to gentiles . That is allegorizing teh word. You take it out of context to make a totally new thought.
Stumpmaster
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Keraz
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Many times the Israelites in the desert were referred to as the 'congregation'. They had many 'aliens', who had joined and who became Israelites by their faith in God. The true people of God were never confined to an ethnic group.
They separated into 2 Houses after Solomon's time. Then they both broke the old Covenant and were exiled for their sins. Judah has returned, but in apostasy and will again be judged and exiled. Jeremiah 12:14
Then the faithful Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language, will go to live in all of the holy Land, where God will cut a New Covenant with us. Hebrews 8:8-13
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
You have not even defined . . .
This is a valid objection of my view and I see your point. Many people, including myself, misunderstood Jeremiah to say that vs. 33 and 34 define the New Covenant, filling in some of the details. But a few of us in our group have been studying the OT prophecies in light of New Testament teaching. One of us noticed that the New Testament defines the New Covenant without making any reference to the ideas and concepts found in Jeremiah 31:33-34. Those concepts aren't in the New Testament. More significantly, both Paul and Jesus define the New Covenant, not in terms of a universal enlightenment, or a universal salvation; but in terms of a new more substantial means to find justification in God.
I would suggest that Jeremiah 31:33-34 is the basis for the argument between Paul and the other Pharisees. The other Pharisees object to Paul's gospel because he claims to be a minister of the New Covenant, but seems to have apparently left out an essential aspect, i.e. universal salvation of all those in Israel. "Paul, you claim to be a minister of the New Covenant, so why hasn't Israel experienced the promises of Jeremiah 31:33-34?" Answer: This aspect of Jeremiahs prophecy comes later . . . after those days.
My answer to your objection is this: You raise a valid point. But since Jesus and Paul define the New Covenant differently than what is indicated in Jeremiah 31:33-34, we can only conclude that Jeremiah didn't define it. The Lord simply says, "I will make a new Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah", and all we know about that Covenant is that it won't be like the Mt. Sinai covenant. It will be different in some way.
Jeremiah is referring to all Jews . . .
Technically, Jeremiah 31:31 speaks about two houses: the house of Judah and the house of Israel. And here again, after an extensive study of Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews, I had to correct myself. I formerly believed, as you do, that Jeremiah was speaking about all Jews, and I formerly defend the idea that the New Covenant was not in effect yet. I think I am in a better position now, to realize that Jeremiah intended to focus on the houses of Judah and Israel, taken as the leadership and kingly line, rather than the individual people. In other words, the covenant is with Jesus himself, the leader of both houses. John 1:49, John 12:13
you make it apply to gentiles.
This idea is not original to me. If I am right, both Jesus and Paul understood that the New Covenant, salvation in the blood of Jesus, was inaugurated for the benefit of "the Jew first but also the Gentiles." Acts 26:23, Romans 1:16, Romans 2:9-10
That is allegorizing the word.
I have a different understanding of "allegorizing", which is to take something symbolically that the author intended as literal. Is that what I did? I don't think so. From Jeremiah's point of view, the entire passage is yet to be fulfilled and remains in his future. He speaks about days that are coming, after the exile, when Israel will be settled back in the land of promise. At that time the Lord will make a new covenant with Israel -- literally "cut" a covenant with Israel. (The Hebrew word for "covenant" actually comes from the word "to cut." Refer to Genesis 15 where we see Abraham cut animals in half.) In this case, rather than cutting a covenant with an animal; the Lord cut a covenant with his only begotten son. Thus Jesus says, "this is the covenant in my blood." As I say, Jesus and Paul were the ones who defined the New Covenant as salvation in the blood of Jesus.
After THOSE days, after the days during which Jesus established the New Covenant in his blood, then the Lord will perform a wonderous thing in the hearts of his people. And here, in Jeremiah 31:33-34 is where Jeremiah deals with the people on an individual basis. Whereas the New Covenant was made with the houses of Judah and Israel; Jeremiah 31:33-34 is made with the people of Israel. (notice that the Lord dropped the distinction between Judah and Israel in those two verses.)
In order to illustrate the difference between "days are coming" and "after those days" I want to use them in a sentence coming from everyday life, and not using allegorical language.
*start*
A new father has just witnessed his son being born. Filled with joy and delight, he speaks a prophetic word to his son. "Behold, days are coming when you will suffer the trials and difficulties of growing up, but after those days you will be a man of great character, leading others in righteousness and with dignity."
In the sentence above, I used the two phrases according to their "usual" definition and connotation.
A. Behold days are coming
a. there will be a time of maturity, training, challenges and difficulties for the boy.
B. After those days
a. the result of training and experience will be evident once the boy is fully grown into a man.
I respect your questions and take them seriously. My hope is to continue the dialogue as we continue to learn from Jesus and the apostles.
I'm having a hard time understanding why this is an issue, myself, I've always read it before the way you do, and thought of this all as the same thing. But I've never understood how it was that we are saved in the New Covenant, but not in accord with it's terms, if it's all one "New Covenant".
The New Covenant is prophesied to write God's Laws, His statutes and commandements - the Law and the Prophets, I think if you were to ask the original reader - on His people's hearts, and that this means they will in fact keep every last one of them. And I don't see that today.
People propose that "some" of the Law is written on our hearts, and we go on these endless debates over what parts, and does it really work, and what it means when we aren't keeping the Law, and on and on it goes.
But the days are coming in which I'll receive new learning, new concepts, and new ideas, from Scripture. And after those days, I'll be able to better teach these things I've come to understand.
This to me reads just like, the days are coming when I'll make a new covenant with Israel and Judah, and after those days, I'll write my laws on Israel's heart.
I've got two items here that appear to indicate something that would be a good answer to my question, a difference in timing, (coming days, and after those days) and a difference in address (Israel and Judah, Israel alone).
The days are coming in which God will make a new covenant, through which we can all be saved.
And after those days, God will write His Laws on Israel's hearts, particularly, when Jesus comes, as I compare this to other prophecies.
I'm still considering this, but it makes a lot of sense to me at the moment.
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You may believe anything you wish, that is all our privilege, but it doesn't make it biblical. The entire context in Jeremiah is the New Covenant for teh Jews, not gentiles. Saying it implies gentiles means nothing if there is no biblical evidence.
And the Gentiles, we all do not know HIm from teh least tot eh greatest. Maybe the church - but then again, we are still in need of teaching!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
We believe it because in my NSHO we receive the word as an innocent child and take it as written. We do not have these mysterious magical mindsets that read between the lines.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So you have a new covenant in Jeremiah and a new covenant in the New Testament? 2 new covenants? amazing. I didn't know we church saints had an old covenant that was broken!
And you reject the normal way of reading to understand after those days. If Jeremiah di dnot say "days are coming" then you would have at least a valid point to launch a serious look ini Scripture to find what after those days means.
But when Jeremiah wrote after those days, the natural question is "what days?. God gave Jeremiah the answer in the same thought! Normal people when seeing after those days, would look to see if the writer had mentioned any specific days. And lo and behold Jeremiah did! The days that God makes a new covenant with all jews! then after the days He makes that new Covenant with the Jews, He shows that "after those days" these are the effects of the covenant! That is how normal people read passages like this. And I am sure if you saw this passage in a book you were reading, you would conclude the author in saying after those days was referring to the days that were coming, and not hunt elsewhere of another definition. That is normal grammar and vocabulary in all languages!!!!!! It really is that si9mple.
Jeremiah is speaking of only Jews, and all Jews. But only all the Jews of a specific time period! And there are numerous passages in Scripture that tell us when that time period is and the fact that all living Jews in that time will be saved! God said it, that settles it. And you are worng because you do not know how words are used. You cannot take verse 31 and isolate it for verses 32-36. First, Jesus isn't a plural. Second Ezekiel showed Israel and Judah wouldbe united again,. third you would need to show that Jesus would think of the divided people as two and not one. Fourth and finally, you have Jehovah making a covenant with jehovah!
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Verses 31_33 show it is for the people of Israel. 31- both houses
32 not in the sam as the old covenant which THEY broke (referring back to the houses of Israel and Judah_ Jesus never broke a covenant) And God was never a husband to Jesus!
Verse 33 "BUT" can also be written, instead of- referring back to verses 31-33 the new covenant will be (all teh things now to be listed!!!)
So I ask you- Is the covenant the first old covenanmt which teh Jews broke?
or is it the new covenant. Does Jesus need to have the laws of God written in His heart? Does Jesus need to have God become His God? When did jesus sin.??????????????????????????????????????????????
Well you allegorize because now the covenant is not with Jews but Jesus.
You allegorize because now you have 2 new covenants
You allegorize because you have verse 31 and verse 33part B "after those days" seperated by a much larger time frame than the context allows.
And you have no evidence of thius. You assume a covenant was made, but Scripture and even the apocryphal books show not a scintilla of evidence of a covenant made after Israel returned from Babylon.
yes the base word is from "cut". But you need to look deeper than strong's concordance for it doesn't mean what you imply. It is a solemn pledge that was formalized (or made official) when the parties cut an animal in two, drained the blood and then th eparties walked between the cut animal. The word is bereeth and means far more than just cutting like cutting a deal or cutting a contract.
And no the blood of Jesus is not teh covenant. It is the blood that sealed the covenant. Read Hebrews again. Blood was needed for remission of sins according ot the Covenant, but the blood was not and is not the covenant.
Sorry, I admire your studying, and with others, but you are going astray from what is written into things that are not even implied in teh simplye Jeremiah passage. You are going very very allegorical.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yeah yeah yeah, but the old and teh new are made to the houses of Israel and Jdah alone!
Your replacement theology is horrific. The new covenant is for the houses of Israel and Judah and Jeremiah under the inspiration of God wrote, not according to Kerasz who is not writing under the holy spirit and feels he can allegorize or rewrite the word of god!
Hebrews 8:8-13
King James Version
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Here is the verse you use to prove the new covenant is for Christians. Yet anyone who knows how to read words on a page sees that this is reffering to Israel and Judah (which Ezekiel said would be rejoined in the latter days).
YOU re write Scripture to say that Israel and Judah mean Jewish and gentile Christians. YOu violate every ordinance God established for understanding how people speak and write, so you can alter the Word of God! This is a grievous issue you are guilty of.
Keraz
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I shall set My Laws in your hearts…. Hebrews 8:10
This verse from the New Testament, is a quote from the O.T. –
Jeremiah 31:31-34…The days are coming when I shall set My Laws within them, writing them on their hearts…
Church teaching says we Christians are now under the New Covenant, the Old is obsolete: Hebrews 8:10-13. However, it is fairly obvious that this prophecy of how God’s Laws will be set into our hearts has not yet been fulfilled. The great prophecies in Ezekiel chapters 20, 36 and 37 tell us when, how and why this will happen:
Ezekiel 20:39-44 Now, you Israelites, [Scattered among the nations as at present, but now identified as every true Christian person. Romans 9:8] go and serve your idols. But in days to come, I shall punish you for your disobedience to Me and no more will you desecrate My holy Name with your idolatries. But after I have gathered you into the Land of Israel, you will serve Me and the nations will witness it. You will know that I am the Lord, [BEFORE the Return of Jesus, Ezekiel 34:30] when I bring you back to the Land that I swore to give to your forebears and you will despise your old evil ways and follow only My Commandments. You will know that the Lord has done this for you, not for your sake, but for the honor of His holy Name.
Ezekiel 36:1-7…the enemy boasts: The ancient heights of Israel are ours. [the current situation] Therefore the Lord says: The mountains of Israel, now occupied by other peoples and plundered and despoiled by them, so I will act in the heat of My anger against those Edomite peoples who have seized My Land as spoil. [Edom: the descendants of Esau, now identified as the Islamic peoples.] Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, an event extensively prophesied throughout the Bible – a literal Day of fire from the sun, earthquakes, tsunamis and powerful storms. All of the world will be affected, but the full force of this disaster will hit the Middle East, virtually depopulating the entire area.
These are the great promises of our redemption and the great gathering:
Ezekiel 37:11-14 The Lord said: These bones are the whole people of Israel, [every Christian person] They say: Our bones are dry, [spiritually bereft] our hope is gone [Acts 26:6-7] and we are cut off. [separated from the holy Land] Prophesy, therefore, the Lord God has said: My people, I shall bring you out of your graves, [your dead spiritual condition] I shall put My spirit into you, redeem and purify you, then I shall settle you into your heritage. Ezekiel 30:11-31, Ezekiel 20:34-38
Ezekiel 36:24-28 The Lord says: I am going to take the Israelites [now Christians] from where they are among the nations, I shall assemble them from every location and bring them to their homeland. I shall purify them from everything that defiles them, give them a new heart and put a new spirit within them. I shall place My spirit in My people, they will conform to My statutes and observe My Laws faithfully. THEN they will live in the holy Land that I gave to their forebears, they will be My people and I will be their God.
Isaiah 51:1-2…We Christians belong to the Seed from Abraham. Galatians 3:26-29
So, the sequence of events is: first, the great Day of the Lord’s wrath, next His people are gathered and purified, then they are settled into all of the holy Land. Some years later, Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign.
This verse from the New Testament, is a quote from the O.T. –
Jeremiah 31:31-34…The days are coming when I shall set My Laws within them, writing them on their hearts…
Church teaching says we Christians are now under the New Covenant, the Old is obsolete: Hebrews 8:10-13. However, it is fairly obvious that this prophecy of how God’s Laws will be set into our hearts has not yet been fulfilled. The great prophecies in Ezekiel chapters 20, 36 and 37 tell us when, how and why this will happen:
Ezekiel 20:39-44 Now, you Israelites, [Scattered among the nations as at present, but now identified as every true Christian person. Romans 9:8] go and serve your idols. But in days to come, I shall punish you for your disobedience to Me and no more will you desecrate My holy Name with your idolatries. But after I have gathered you into the Land of Israel, you will serve Me and the nations will witness it. You will know that I am the Lord, [BEFORE the Return of Jesus, Ezekiel 34:30] when I bring you back to the Land that I swore to give to your forebears and you will despise your old evil ways and follow only My Commandments. You will know that the Lord has done this for you, not for your sake, but for the honor of His holy Name.
Ezekiel 36:1-7…the enemy boasts: The ancient heights of Israel are ours. [the current situation] Therefore the Lord says: The mountains of Israel, now occupied by other peoples and plundered and despoiled by them, so I will act in the heat of My anger against those Edomite peoples who have seized My Land as spoil. [Edom: the descendants of Esau, now identified as the Islamic peoples.] Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5
This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, an event extensively prophesied throughout the Bible – a literal Day of fire from the sun, earthquakes, tsunamis and powerful storms. All of the world will be affected, but the full force of this disaster will hit the Middle East, virtually depopulating the entire area.
These are the great promises of our redemption and the great gathering:
Ezekiel 37:11-14 The Lord said: These bones are the whole people of Israel, [every Christian person] They say: Our bones are dry, [spiritually bereft] our hope is gone [Acts 26:6-7] and we are cut off. [separated from the holy Land] Prophesy, therefore, the Lord God has said: My people, I shall bring you out of your graves, [your dead spiritual condition] I shall put My spirit into you, redeem and purify you, then I shall settle you into your heritage. Ezekiel 30:11-31, Ezekiel 20:34-38
Ezekiel 36:24-28 The Lord says: I am going to take the Israelites [now Christians] from where they are among the nations, I shall assemble them from every location and bring them to their homeland. I shall purify them from everything that defiles them, give them a new heart and put a new spirit within them. I shall place My spirit in My people, they will conform to My statutes and observe My Laws faithfully. THEN they will live in the holy Land that I gave to their forebears, they will be My people and I will be their God.
Isaiah 51:1-2…We Christians belong to the Seed from Abraham. Galatians 3:26-29
So, the sequence of events is: first, the great Day of the Lord’s wrath, next His people are gathered and purified, then they are settled into all of the holy Land. Some years later, Jesus will Return for His Millennium reign.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Wrong- the Jeremiah passage doesn't say christians, that is you reinterpreting the prophecies- to your own destruction quoteth Peter.
Hebrews was written to hebrews not gentiles! And you would think if these writers were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit they would know to write the body of Christ/Christians/church. Why do you feel compelled to edit the Holy Spirit?
Not according to gods Word as He said it and Ezekiel wrote it! that is you rewriting Gods Word to make it say something God never intended! shame on you!
Davy
Well-Known Member
But apparently you don't understand the OT prophecies about God scattering the ten tribes among the Gentiles, and giving them a new covenant.
And don't just say the below Scripture involves just the ten tribe house of Israel, because Apostle Paul quoted from Hosea to Gentile believers on Christ in Romans 9.
Hos 2:14-23
14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call Me Ishi; and shalt call Me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, 'Thou art My people'; and they shall say, 'Thou art my God.'
KJV
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Again, let's be fair with each other. You are attempting to charge me with an "absurd" argument without actually taking the time to properly formulate the reducio ad absurdum argument. That is, without showing how my statements actually lead to an absurd conclusion, you simply make one up and assert it as if I said it. Why not address my arguments directly?
We both agree on this one point: Jeremiah invites the reader to ask "what days?" So let's break this down logically.
A. vs 31: Behold, days are coming . . .
___________^^^________________
B. vs 33: after those days . . .
B points back to A. First God makes a covenant with two houses during the "A" days. Then, after the "A" days comes the "B" days during which God makes a covenant with the people.
In my view, "the days" of verse 31 indicate the post-exilic period after the people return from Babylon, during which time Jesus dies on the cross, rises from the dead, and ascends to the Father. This, according to both Jesus and Paul, is the New Covenant.
Of course, I maintain that this event is described in verses 33 and 34. But in verses 31 and 32, God is speaking of two houses, not individual Jews.
First, I divided the passage between verses 32 and 33 because Jeremiah does, in my view.
I don't see these four issues as being valid critiques of my view. I didn't say or imply that Jesus was a plural. I said that God is making the New Covenant with the Houses, rather than the people as individuals. As the king of Israel, Jesus represents both houses.
Since I maintain that Jeremiah 31:33-34 pertains to the future condition when God pours out his spirit on the Jews, then your second objection isn't valid since my view is completely compatible with a united Israel. The same goes for your third objection. Even during the time of Jesus, both of the houses were already united, which is why the New Testament doesn't mention the house of Judah as a separate entity.
You raise a good point. Jeremiah actually talks about three covenants in that passage: 1)Mt. Sinai covenant (which they broke) 2)New Covenant (which both Jesus and Paul teach as fulfilled in the cross of Christ) and 3) the covenant to follow.
Did the ministry of Jesus take place after the return of Babylon? I think so. Matthew 1:17
Jesus says "this is the new covenant in my blood." Luke 22:20 and Paul repeats this idea in 1 Corinthians 11:25. He also admits to being a minister of the New Covenant. 2 Corinthians 3:6
Keraz
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As the ancient Israelite nation is no longer here and the modern State of Israel is not a godly people, then the only answer to the question of who are the Israelites of God, is the faithful Christians. From every tribe, race nation and language. WE are the Chosen people of God, John 15:14-19, His true Israelites; Galatians 6:14-16
But we understand why you must wrongly attribute the Jews as God's chosen people; so you can float off to heaven, while the Jews go thru tribulation. An extremely pretentious and fanciful idea which is never prophesied to happen.
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Keraz
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Church teaching is that we are now in the New Covenant.
This belief mainly comes from Luke 22:20 In the same way, He took the cup and said: This cup, poured out for you, is the new Covenant, sealed by My Blood.
But Luke 22:20 is a later addition to scripture and is not found in the early manuscripts. It is deleted by the Revised English Bible and others.
Can we Christians today really say we experience all the results of the New Covenant, as listed in Hebrews 8:10-12?
1/ I shall set My Laws in their hearts.
2/ I shall be their God and they will be My people.
3/ They will not teach each other, for all will know the Lord.
4/ I shall pardon their sins and remember their wickedness no more.
Not one of these things are fully in effect now, or have been since Jesus was on earth. They are all yet to happen in the future.
The Old Covenant was made between the Lord and the ancient ethnic Israelite peoples:
Exodus 24:3-8, where all the Israelites heard the Laws in the Book of the Covenant and promised to obey them. It will be the same again, in the end times, when all of the Lord’s faithful people will be living in the holy Land.
Proved by how it is only then that the sins of the people will be forgiven. Isaiah 33:24
The big sticking point with this scenario for most is all the Christians going to live in the holy Land. They have been taught that the Jews remain there while they avoid the Lord’s wrath by being raptured to heaven, plus the idea of migrating to the Middle East is totally unheard of and isn’t at all desirable as it is now.
Many prophesies say how the Lord will regenerate the Land and it will become like the garden of Eden. Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 33:12-13
We Christians are the Lord’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 We have His Commission to proclaim the Gospel until Jesus comes again. Matthew 28:19-20
Many prophesies tell us that the current Jewish State of Israel will be gone after the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18, and only a remnant will remain. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27
They will be joined by their Christian brethren, Jeremiah 50:4-6: His lost sheep, Ezekiel 34:11-16, all the vast multitude in Jerusalem seen by John. Revelation 7:9
There: Jesus will make the New Covenant with us, for our peace and prosperity. He will demonstrate His power to protect us: by the destruction of the Gog/Magog army.
That the Lord’s holy people are present in the holy Land before Jesus Returns, is proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, when the ‘beast’ conquers them. Zechariah 14:1-2 However, some of the Christians will violate the New Covenant and agree to a peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, Isaiah 28:11-12, as described in Daniel 11:32, which will commence the Great Tribulation for the final 3½ years before Jesus Returns.
This belief mainly comes from Luke 22:20 In the same way, He took the cup and said: This cup, poured out for you, is the new Covenant, sealed by My Blood.
But Luke 22:20 is a later addition to scripture and is not found in the early manuscripts. It is deleted by the Revised English Bible and others.
Can we Christians today really say we experience all the results of the New Covenant, as listed in Hebrews 8:10-12?
1/ I shall set My Laws in their hearts.
2/ I shall be their God and they will be My people.
3/ They will not teach each other, for all will know the Lord.
4/ I shall pardon their sins and remember their wickedness no more.
Not one of these things are fully in effect now, or have been since Jesus was on earth. They are all yet to happen in the future.
The Old Covenant was made between the Lord and the ancient ethnic Israelite peoples:
Exodus 24:3-8, where all the Israelites heard the Laws in the Book of the Covenant and promised to obey them. It will be the same again, in the end times, when all of the Lord’s faithful people will be living in the holy Land.
Proved by how it is only then that the sins of the people will be forgiven. Isaiah 33:24
The big sticking point with this scenario for most is all the Christians going to live in the holy Land. They have been taught that the Jews remain there while they avoid the Lord’s wrath by being raptured to heaven, plus the idea of migrating to the Middle East is totally unheard of and isn’t at all desirable as it is now.
Many prophesies say how the Lord will regenerate the Land and it will become like the garden of Eden. Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 33:12-13
We Christians are the Lord’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 We have His Commission to proclaim the Gospel until Jesus comes again. Matthew 28:19-20
Many prophesies tell us that the current Jewish State of Israel will be gone after the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath. Jeremiah 12:14, Zephaniah 1:1-18, and only a remnant will remain. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27
They will be joined by their Christian brethren, Jeremiah 50:4-6: His lost sheep, Ezekiel 34:11-16, all the vast multitude in Jerusalem seen by John. Revelation 7:9
There: Jesus will make the New Covenant with us, for our peace and prosperity. He will demonstrate His power to protect us: by the destruction of the Gog/Magog army.
That the Lord’s holy people are present in the holy Land before Jesus Returns, is proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, when the ‘beast’ conquers them. Zechariah 14:1-2 However, some of the Christians will violate the New Covenant and agree to a peace treaty with the leader of the World Govt, Isaiah 28:11-12, as described in Daniel 11:32, which will commence the Great Tribulation for the final 3½ years before Jesus Returns.
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