When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

Earburner said:

Luke 11:13 and Romans 8:8-9 says otherwise.

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So you were born a perfect robot without sin?

Is that your point?

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Earburner said:

^ I am meaning: no one of Adam's offspring is physically born with the Holy Spirit already.

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Then how do you get to the point God starts working, if not in the womb? Since no Scripture gives a certain age, conception is the best choice. It worked for John the Baptist.

Davy said:

You're starting to sound like the orthodox Jew with their 'dead in the ground' theory which believes the resurrection is about a flesh physical body.

The word 'physical' doesn't really define the resurrection body. The phrase "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught for it does. Paul also used the idea of "the image of the heavenly" to further define the resurrection type body. He also made it even more clear when he said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption (1 Corinthians 15).

Sorry then, the word 'physical' just doesn't get er' done.

Towards the end of 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul gave 4 separate Greek words about 2 separate changes required to have eternal life through Christ Jesus. You might want to look that up, because the resurrection for the wicked, called the "resurrection of damnation", is a resurrection to a "spiritual body" also with one difference, their mortal souls will still be in a liable to perish in the lake of fire kind of condition during Christ's future thousand years reign (called the "second death"). Those of the 1st resurrection will not be subject to that, but will have put on immortality through Christ Jesus.

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Prior to the Cross, there were no physical bodies walking around in sheol. Have the Greeks influenced you?

I already pointed out somewhere, David called it sleep, and did not talk about a body, but a soul. So not sure why you are accusing me of being an orthodox Jew corrupted by Greek mythology.

Some claim, even the author of Samuel that the soul has form, and may look like a ghost. There is a distinction between ghost and spirit. Even though spirit is normally just the air or wind, it has no form to speak of, unless involving water. The Holy Spirit is a person not just air or breath. When it came to Adam's soul, there was not one until God breathed life into the shell. Does the soul give the body it's shape, or does the soul aquire the same shape, and forever stuck with it. Or is the soul just a mind with no shape at all? Was that first breath even air, or actually God as the Holy Spirit? That only explains the soul and body. That is not including what our spirit was.

If God is also light, then our spirit is more than just air or breath, how is it not also light? What is the point of Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration as a bright and shining light, if not to demonstrate what our spirit is all about?

You are the one stuck in a dual physical/spiritual body dynamic, and no explanation for the third aspect of the image of God, the spirit. You are still stuck in Greek, thinking it is only air. Then you stamp Greek mythology onto Scripture and call humans immortals with an immortal body, whatever the Greek that is. Is that a god?

Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration showed us what the image of God is as a son of God, which we are, as redeemed out of Adam's corruptible image. Nothing about Adam's image which we have inherited as copies of Adam, is like God's image. Adam gave us a soul, and a dead body. What part of God has a soul, or is a soul?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

It is the soul that is eternal and like God, not the body. The body is just dust, and obviously physical. But we are not God via our soul. It only means the soul will be everlasting like God. Unless God decides the soul should no longer exist. It was the soul that was given a dead corruptible body. It was the soul that was given a sin nature, but the body demands we sin. Until the Cross, and then the soul and it's thoughts were held accountable. So David claims the soul walks through the valley of the shadow of death, called sleep. After the Cross, the soul no longer should die, should not walk through this valley of the shadow of death, nor should sleep. Jesus as the Resurrection and the Life changed all of that. Yet Christiandom is still saddled with Greek ideology.

Marty fox said:

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

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This is still future. stan is still god of this world and has his governors and mayors and senators etc.

Jesus is still in His role of High Priest, now in heaven. As is written,

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Seeiing as jesus is God the son, if He was reigning as king- do you really think the world would be as evil as it is?? Remember SCripture also says this:

Revelation 2:27
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He will rule, but He has not started yet.

Timtofly said:

Prior to the Cross, there were no physical bodies walking around in sheol. Have the Greeks influenced you?

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The New Testament uses the old Greek idea of Hades put for the abode of the wicked in the heavenly. Why don't you? Sheol is a word for it used from the Old Testament.

I already pointed out somewhere, David called it sleep, and did not talk about a body, but a soul. So not sure why you are accusing me of being an orthodox Jew corrupted by Greek mythology.

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I never pointed to any Greek mythology, that's your vanity rave. The Jews are who believed the 'sleep in the ground' theory, which was an Old Testament era belief of the Jews. But The New Testament revealed more detail of what happens to us when we die, even though the one (Paul) gave the most detail about it in 2 Corinthians 5 also used the idea of "asleep" in 1 Thessalonians 4. Why would Paul do that, because if what you believe about it were true, then it would mean Paul contradicted himself?

Timtofly said:

Then how do you get to the point God starts working, if not in the womb? Since no Scripture gives a certain age, conception is the best choice. It worked for John the Baptist.

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John the Baptist was the last of the OC prophets, who had the Holy Spirit upon him in the moment of his birth, and not any time earlier.
Luke 1[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Strongs-G1537:
ἐκ
a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds, from, out of place, time, or cause);
KJV usage: after.

John the Baptist was not concieved by the Holy Spirit, as was Jesus, but rather was given the Holy Spirit, at the time during his birth.

Aunty Jane said:

The Jews believed in resurrection, (not a continuation of life, but a restoration of it) therefore Jesus believed this too, and he not only taught it, he demonstrated it three times when he raised the dead back to life. There was no mention of them being brought back from somewhere else.

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There is a difference between resurrection and resuscitation.
Lazarus was resuscitated into his mortal old life again, but Jesus was resurrrected into His immortal New Life.

Note: man, Adam became a living soul. He didn't get a living soul.
The "breath of life" is Oxygenated air.
Genesis 2:7, 7:22

Timtofly said:

Revelation 20:4 is not the Second Coming resurrection of Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15. Paul's resurrection is in the opening of the 5th and 6th Seal years before Armageddon and the resurrection of Revelation 20:4. Paul never mentions people being beheaded, and for a reason. Paul was not talking about their resurrection.

The soul is who you are, not your body nor spirit. So the soul can never die. Before the Cross, the soul was in Abraham's bosom. Guess what? Jesus told us Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom, not heaven, so Lazarus' soul was not dragged out of Paradise away from heaven. God allowed his soul to leave Abraham's bosom and enter a restored incorruptible physical body, that would never die again. A few weeks later, all of Abraham's bosom were set free and given incorruptible permanent physical bodies. They are now in Paradise, as well as Lazarus and John the Baptist.

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"Abraham's bosom" is a Jewish story, and is not scriptural. However, the scriptural likeness to it, is described in Malachi 3:16 and Revelation 6:9-11.
As for the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus itself, it is a fictitious story, delivering the singular truth about Jesus Himself. Luke 16:30

Marty fox said:

Daniel 7:13-14
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10


5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come the salvation and the power
and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Messiah.
For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.

Notice that in both sets of verses that Jesus receives His authority and power that shows that they happened at the same time.

Hebrews 10:12-13 confirms the timing of this when Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father when He presented Himself to the Father as our one time sacrificial Lamb.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

And when did Jesus say that He would sit at the right hand of the Father?

Matthew 26:63-64
63 But Jesus remained silent.

The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Yes after His death and resurrection

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Daniel 7:v.7 to 14

>>>7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.<<<

As you and all know, the prophecy is revealing about the fourth Empire - the dreadful and terrible, and strong Roman Empire - diverse from the Greek, Persian and Babylonian kingdoms that were before it. As you and all know, the Roman Empire was specifically and genuinely a Gentile Empire, but there was also a completely alien being or nation in the Gentile Roman Empire: It was Israel. For this reason the prophecy reveals this appendix linked to the Roman Empire as 10 other independent powers, descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, prophetically represented by 10 horns. (Judah is another Kingdom separated from the nation or kingdom of Israel, and is not accounted in this prophecy). By the way, in Daniel 2, Israel(the clay-Isaiah 64:v.8) is represented by 10 toes of clay of the feet in the Nebuchadnezzar's estatue.


>>>8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.<<<

The prophecy now is focusing the ten horns. We know by prophecy that they represent Israel, descendants from Abraham, among the Gentile nations ruled by the Roman Empire, but from the midst of the 10 horns will rise up another very peculiar and little individual horn, but very powerful with his eyes (satanic vision) and a mouth speaking great things (blasphemy). I'm not sure how the little horn(the eleventh horn) will pluck up 3 horns from the first 10 horns by the roots, it seems he will erase them, maybe will be the tribe of Levy, Judah and Benjamin, staying only 7 tribes: Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nephthalin, Simeon, Issachar and Dan that is not accounted in Revelation 7, replaced by Joseph; By the way, the little horn may be of the tribe of Dan, as prophesied Jacob:Genesis 49:v.16-17 - Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

The little horn is the Man Beast like a lamb having two horns (a false lamb, course), actually a false messiah, an esoteric, kabbalistic and spiritist messiah (John 5:v.43 to 47 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2: 4and9-12), and he speaks as Dragon-Revelation 13:v.11-18. He will be enthroned in Jerusalém the holy city, called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, and he will rule Israel in the last week Daniel 9:v.27, and also will be main guide of the esoteric, kabbalistic and SPIRITIST Judaism.


>>>9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him: thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him: the Judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.<<<

We are still analyzing and speaking of the prophecy within of the environment of Roman Empire from 146 B.C. until the current time. Two thousand years ago the Word was made flesh and JESUS was born, it was the fourth Day-Genesis 1v.16 combined with John 5:v.17- and a new Era started by the preaching of the Gospel of GOD's kingdom by/through JESUS, and after by His apostles and disciples until today.

Now see,"our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself" - Ph.3:20-21, but the red Dragon, Satan, our Enemy, he also is in heaven,I mean he is in the same spiritual environment we are-Revelation 12:v.3-4- he was already Judged by our LORD and now will be Judged his world as a whole, he will be cast down from this celestial environment to the earth, but it by fight, by a War. For the Judgment of the Devil's world already there are Thrones according the Word of GOD, and one specific and special Throne for the Ancient of days like the fiery flame. The red Dragon - Satan - will be furious, John heard the voice of the great words which the horn - the false messiah of the Jews- spake -verse 11 above:

Now, even now, from now on, the Judgment of all nations will be established according is written in the books, from Genesis to Revelation. Do you know what will be the consequences?

- the devilish nations will be angry, they will be furious because the wrath of GOD that will fall upon them all - Revelation 11:v.18

- GOD will destroy them which destroy the earth - Revelation 11:v.18

- one of the 7 heads of the main partnership of the red Dragon, whose partner has 7 heads, and 10 horns, and upon his 7 heads a name of blasphemy -Revelation 13:v.1-, yeah, one of the 7 heads will be wounded to death, in fact a mortal wound. Then the esoteric and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah, the Man Beast like a lamb-Revelation 13:v.11- will give to his main partnership his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority, and the wounded head of the FIRST Beast will be healed.

- the court which is without the temple...it will be given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months-Revelation 11:v.2.

- and the false messiah will exercise all the power of the FIRST Man Beast before him, and will cause the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the FIRST Man Beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (by the false messiah, course) - Rev. 13:v.12

- and the false messiah will do great wonders, so that he will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men-Rev.13:v.13.

- and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the FIRST Beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the Man Beast, which had the wound by a Sword-the Word of GOD-and did live - Rev. 13:v.14.

In LITERAL fulfillment of the verses above many many indescribable things will happen in whole earth from now on, course, it because the Ancient days is already seated on His throne, and the Judgment is now given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints will possess the kingdom according Revelation 11:v.15 to 18.

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continuation of post above

>>>13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven(CLOUDS?Psalm 97:v.2and 1), and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.<<<

The one like the Son of man is Michael, who was seen by Daniel moving towards the person of JESUS, and the Judgment shall sit, and the saints of the Most High shall take away the dominio of Satan here in the Earth, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Revelation 11:v. 15 - will fulfill LITERALLY from now on. The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD (the satanic world of Devil) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. JESUS will return after the victory of Michael against Satan and his angels - Revelation 12: v.7 to 17

JESUS - the Ancient of days - said: All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

>>>14 And (by JESUS) will be given to Michael dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.<<<

DANIEL PROPHESIED:
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time-Matthew 24:v.15: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Daniel 12:v.1-3 THERE WILL BE AN INDESCRIBABLE RESURRECTION IN THE DAYS TO COME

1 Thessalonians 4:v.13 to 16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. Hallelujah!!!
15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord -the Word is GOD-, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice(message) of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:- literal fulfillment of Daniel 12:v.2
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds(CLOUDS? Psalm 97:v.2and 1), to meet the Lord in the air(AIR? air is heaven: here the 3rd heaven - God's Kingdom-) and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Timtofly said:

So you were born a perfect robot without sin?

Is that your point?

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

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Your questions reflect that you don't comprehend what Luke 11:13 and Romans 8:8-9 are saying.

Earburner said:

There is a difference between resurrection and resuscitation.
Lazarus was resuscitated into his mortal old life again, but Jesus was resurrrected into His immortal New Life.

Note: man, Adam became a living soul. He didn't get a living soul.
The "breath of life" is Oxygenated air.
Genesis 2:7, 7:22

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That is not what his sister said.....she assumed that by four days he was starting to smell.....so a decomposing body was not resuscitated.....Lazarus was resurrected.

John 11:20-24....
"When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him; but Mary kept sitting at home. 21 Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
32-35...."When Mary arrived where Jesus was and caught sight of him, she fell at his feet and said to him: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping, he groaned within himself and became troubled. 34 He said: “Where have you laid him?” They said to him: “Lord, come and see.” 35 Jesus gave way to tears.”

38 Then Jesus, after groaning again within himself, came to the tomb. It was, in fact, a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39 Jesus said: “Take the stone away.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: “Lord, by now he must smell, for it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”

Sorry, not buying that one......

Marty fox said:

Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus [ascension] and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10

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This is total nonsense. That passage speaks of the Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" and that is quite some time in the future. It is only after His Second Coming that He established His real, visible, tangible, physical (and spiritual) Kingdom on earth.

Just ask yourself one SIMPLE question: "If that prophecy has already been fulfilled, then how come evildoers like Joe Biden, Vladimir Putin, and Xi Jinping are still running around freely?"

Aunty Jane said:

That is not what his sister said.....she assumed that by four days he was starting to smell.....so a decomposing body was not resuscitated.....Lazarus was resurrected.


John 11:20-24....
"When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went to meet him; but Mary kept sitting at home. 21 Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
32-35...."When Mary arrived where Jesus was and caught sight of him, she fell at his feet and said to him: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping, he groaned within himself and became troubled. 34 He said: “Where have you laid him?” They said to him: “Lord, come and see.” 35 Jesus gave way to tears.”

38 Then Jesus, after groaning again within himself, came to the tomb. It was, in fact, a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39 Jesus said: “Take the stone away.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: “Lord, by now he must smell, for it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”

Sorry, not buying that one......

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Sorry to disagree with your unfortunate method of belief, but ONLY Jesus IS the FIRSTBORN from the dead.

Lazurus was a MIRACLE of resuscitation and restoration back to his original condition of his "flesh and blood" existence.
Do not succumb to your natural way of understanding, nor church-ianity's religious persuasion about it. It's impossible to have Lazarus resurrected into NEW Life before Jesus Himself.
Lazarus was only restored back to his old mortal life that he had.

If you refuse to give up on your current belief about Lazarus, then you are saying that Lazarus is the Firstborn from the dead, and not Jesus.
You must think this through with God's perspective of understanding.

Enoch111 said:

This is total nonsense. That passage speaks of the Second Coming of Christ "with power and great glory" and that is quite some time in the future. It is only after His Second Coming that He established His real, visible, tangible, physical (and spiritual) Kingdom on earth.

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This may be a shock to your current form of belief, because "church-ianity" has corrupted the Glorious and physical appearing of our Lord and Savior, in flaming fire from Heaven, as being His Second Coming, when in reality, it will be His Third and FINAL Coming.

1. Jesus' first coming was in the likeness of our flesh, and was to the Jews first.

2. Jesus' second coming is to all the world through the Holy Spirit, beginning on the Day of Pentecost and is still ongoing.
John 14:18

3. Jesus' third and final coming will be His physical and audible appearance, in flaming fire from Heaven, for our Redemption, being all who live and have lived in faith of God through Him. It shall be a simultaneous event in the SAME Day of redeeming His people and the destruction of ALL who do not have God's Holy Spirit. Luke 17:29 and Romans 8:8-9 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

Earburner said:

This may be a shock to your current form of belief, because "church-ianity" has corrupted the Glorious and physical appearing of our Lord and Savior, in flaming fire from Heaven, as being His Second Coming, when in reality, it will be His Third and FINAL Coming.

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You can add as many comings as you want, but why did you ignore the Resurrection/Rapture which is the Blessed Hope of Christians?

The entrance of Christ with the Holy Spirit to indwell believers is not regarding as a "coming", because it happens only on an individual basis.

Enoch111 said:

1. You can add as many comings as you want, but why did you ignore the Resurrection/Rapture which is the Blessed Hope of Christians?

2. The entrance of Christ with the Holy Spirit to indwell believers is not regarding as a "coming", because it happens only on an individual basis.

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And the popularity of church-ianity's false doctrines have you tightly wrapped, so that you cannot percieve that the Holy Spirit does come to us ("all people"), as Jesus promised.

1. So that you may see that you are not thinking deep enough, I shall ask you a few questions
A. Who is the first resurrection?
B. How shall you have part in it?
C. Are you having part in it now?
D. If you are having part in it now, does Ephesians 4:30 apply to you?
E. Is the consequence of Romans 8:9 the results of not having part in the first resurrection?

Again, from item A: who is the firstborn from the dead?
Are you now having part in His resurrection?
Ref. John 3:3-8 and Philippians 4:10 and Ephesians 2:4-6

2. Ever since Pentecost, The Holy Spirit comes "knocking" to every person.
Either we open the door and ASK/invite Him in, or we don't. Luke 11:13 and Revelation 3:20.

Concerning Rev. 3:20 and the parable of "The Door and the sheepfold", did you know that YOU, I and all are that "porter" (KJV)? John 10:1-6
We are "door openers", when the Holy Spirit comes to us knocking".

For those that don't open the door to Him, they also will have ignored their own "day of visitation". The results- Romans 8:9.
Again, ref. Revelation 3:20

Your religious word "rapture", is the third and sudden coming of Jesus Christ in all His Glory, "in flaming fire", to redeem His Saints, and at the SAME time, destroy all those who "are none of His".

There is no secret event of a so called "rapture".

^ Correction: my reference to Philippians 4:10 is an error. It should be Philippians 310] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Earburner said:

Sorry to disagree with your unfortunate method of belief, but ONLY Jesus IS the FIRSTBORN from the dead.

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Jesus is “firstborn from the dead” because he was the first to die as a human and be resurrected as a spirit....so you are correct. But do you understand that the Bible speaks of two resurrections? The “first resurrection” is for Jesus’ elect...those who will rule with him in heaven as “kings and priests”. (Revelation 20:6) And there is another resurrection later where Jesus will call all the dead (who are not of the elect), out of their graves to restored life on earth, where God intended for us to live all along. (John 5:28-29) This is the general resurrection where all the dead “both righteous and unrighteous” are brought back to life as Lazarus was. (Acts 24:15) God’s purpose did not go away just because some rebels cause a derailment.....it will all return to what God first intended. (Isaiah 55:11)

No one went to heaven before Jesus, (John 3:13) so if Lazarus and his sisters were part of the elect, then Jesus actually changed Lazarus’ destiny. His death after Christ opened the way to heaven for his elect to follow, would then be a death and resurrection like Jesus himself experienced. (1 Peter 3:18)
But those “dead in Christ” members of his body would have to wait in their graves until Christ’s return, according to the apostle Paul. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

Lazurus was a MIRACLE of resuscitation and restoration back to his original condition of his "flesh and blood" existence.
Do not succumb to your natural way of understanding, nor church-ianity's religious persuasion about it. It's impossible to have Lazarus resurrected into NEW Life before Jesus Himself.
Lazarus was only restored back to his old mortal life that he had.

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I do not subscribe to “churchianity’s” view of anything, having come out of that disunited rabble many years ago. I subscribe to only what the Bible says....and it says that Lazarus was resurrected, not resuscitated. You cannot resuscitate someone who is brain dead. You can however, if you have God’s holy spirit, restore a person to life, which is what resurrection is. For some who are chosen by God, it will be a spiritual resurrection to heaven, and for others who are also faithful Christians, it will be a resurrection in the flesh, with restored bodies, restored relationships with lost loved ones, and a restoration of the planet itself because the rule of Satan has taken away what God first gave us. Jesus Christ came to give it all back. That is what the rule of God’s kingdom is for.....to reconcile us back with our Creator...to eliminate the barrier that separates us from him.....sin. Jesus’ death redeems us out of the debt that Adam left for his children.

If you refuse to give up on your current belief about Lazarus, then you are saying that Lazarus is the Firstborn from the dead, and not Jesus.
You must think this through with God's perspective of understanding.

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No one can tell us what to believe...we all believe what we want to for our own reasons. What we are doing by holding our beliefs, keeping in mind where we got them, is telling God what is in our hearts because if we are shown what the Bible says and we still cling to that which is not Bible truth, then we cannot expect Jesus to count us in when the judgment comes......everyone will be caught in the act of being who God sees, not who they see themselves to be. It will be a shock for the “many”. (Matthew 7:21-23)
“Few” Jesus said, are on the road to life....it’s a hard road to travel, with many stumbling blocks and dangers along the way. It’s “cramped”, meaning that there is little room for deviation, and the gate that is the entry way is “narrow” meaning that it’s not easy to even find the way in, unless you slow down and observe things very carefully.

I believe time is running out for this world and soon God will hold it to account....where we stand will determine our future.

Aunty Jane said:

Jesus is “firstborn from the dead” because he was the first to die as a human and be (1) resurrected as a spirit....so you are correct. But do you understand that the Bible speaks of two resurrections? (2)The “first resurrection” is for Jesus’ elect...those who will rule with him in heaven as “kings and priests”. (Revelation 20:6) And there is another resurrection later where Jesus will call all the dead (who are not of the elect), out of their graves to restored life on earth, where God intended for us to live all along. (John 5:28-29) This is (3) the general resurrection where all the dead “both righteous and unrighteous” are brought back to life as Lazarus was. (Acts 24:15) God’s purpose did not go away just because some rebels cause a derailment.....it will all return to what God first intended. (Isaiah 55:11)

No one went to heaven before Jesus, (John 3:13) so if Lazarus and his sisters were part of the elect, then Jesus actually changed Lazarus’ destiny. His death after Christ opened the way to heaven for his elect to follow, would then be a death and resurrection like Jesus himself experienced. (1 Peter 3:18)
But those “dead in Christ” members of his body would have to wait in their graves until Christ’s return, according to the apostle Paul. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)


I do not subscribe to (4) “churchianity’s” view of anything, having come out of that disunited rabble many years ago. I subscribe to only what the Bible says....and it says that (5) Lazarus was resurrected, not resuscitated. You cannot resuscitate someone who is brain dead. You can however, if you have God’s holy spirit, restore a person to life, which is what resurrection is. For some (6) who are chosen by God, it will be a spiritual resurrection to heaven, (7) and for others who are also faithful Christians, it will be a resurrection in the flesh, with restored bodies, restored relationships with lost loved ones, and a restoration of the planet itself because the rule of Satan has taken away what God first gave us. Jesus Christ came to give it all back. That is what the rule of God’s kingdom is for.....to reconcile us back with our Creator...to eliminate the barrier that separates us from him.....sin. Jesus’ death redeems us out of the debt that Adam left for his children.


No one can tell us what to believe...we all believe what we want to for our own reasons. What we are doing by holding our beliefs, keeping in mind where we got them, is telling God what is in our hearts because if we are shown what the Bible says and we still cling to that which is not Bible truth, then we cannot expect Jesus to count us in when the judgment comes......everyone will be caught in the act of being who God sees, not who they see themselves to be. It will be a shock for the “many”. (Matthew 7:21-23)
“Few” Jesus said, are on the road to life....it’s a hard road to travel, with many stumbling blocks and dangers along the way. It’s “cramped”, meaning that there is little room for deviation, and the gate that is the entry way is “narrow” meaning that it’s not easy to even find the way in, unless you slow down and observe things very carefully.

I believe time is running out for this world and soon God will hold it to account....where we stand will determine our future.

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I cannot say that I agree with much of what you have said. It is apparent to me that you are NOT reading from the KJV, but rather from one of the many corrupted modern day bibles, that are translated from the "Wescott & Hort Greek Text".
If that be so, then we are very much at an impass for agreement on the issues you have stated.

I have hi-lited your words in bold text, to show what I disagree with you on. Actually, there is so much there that I can't agree with, that I don't have the time to cover it for my arguments.
However, if you would would read what i have said to others on this forum, you will get a gist of how I believe the KJV Bible, and how.