2 Chron 11:14-17 and the lost tribes

veteran · May 30, 2011

So what did BELIEVING Judah and Israel retain?

The people of Israel and Judah which DID believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, Messiah... have retained ALL of God's Promises to Israel.

Those promises include a great multitude of seed (which is often applied to Gentiles in Christ's Body!)

It includes the control of the gates its enemies

It includes the blessing of corn and wine, i.e., great land resources with agricultural blessings and much natural resources.

It includes dwelling in lands of safety without the need of walls.

It includes Ephraim as God's firstborn (Jeremiah 31:9)

It includes Judah still upon the throne of David, on earth.

It includes great military power upon the earth.

It includes believing Judah's portion upon the throne of David

It includes believing Judah's portion of maintainer of God's laws among His Israel of both believing Jews and Gentiles.

It includes the "multitude of nations" that Ephraim was to become

Oh, it of course also includes the care and the going forth of The Faith (The Gospel of Jesus Christ) to ALL nations.

It includes The True House of God among them, with peoples from all nations that believe spiritually joined with them, with their final redemption by Christ bring them ALL together when He returns to Jerusalem.

avoice · May 30, 2011

This is the way I understand this in my own words you can take it or leave it as you please suit yourself

There will be no sanctified by God Temple until Christ returns ...

Now there will be a temple or perhaps a tabernacle of sorts built that is what the 7 year covenant of A.C. ( Dan 9:27 ) is all about ...its not just about sacrifice of animals its about reinstatement of the law...

Antichrist has one goal to teach another doctrine besides Christ ..to do away with Christ (his first coming) completely He must reinstate the sacrifice ...What does the sacrifice do ? It covers sin ..
the very thing Christ came to die to fulfill .....Its his(A.C.'s) attempt to make Christ null and void

Judah will fall for this as its written they sign on to covenant.

Its at mid week The Abomination that Judah wakes from their stupor..Not Only does AC break the covenant but he now stands in holy of hollies and declares himself to be god...Its at this point most of Judah realizes who A.C. is and comes to understand Christ and join with Christians. .... remember Judah knows the Old testament well they know what written in Dan. and will know the abomination when they see it.

Judah and Israel have different destinies up to the point of the abomination.
In fact one could loosely say the entire 1st half of the 7 years is about Judah more so than Israel at its core.... The second half of the 7 years 42 months (shortened) is about the world

So the fact Jews want to rebuild a Temple plays right into Gods plan to bring them under Christ with us ..They will get a temple but it will be through Antichrist.

tomwebster · May 30, 2011

veteran said:
So what did BELIEVING Judah and Israel retain?

The people of Israel and Judah which DID believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ, Messiah... have retained ALL of God's Promises to Israel.

Those promises include a great multitude of seed (which is often applied to Gentiles in Christ's Body!)

It includes the control of the gates its enemies

It includes the blessing of corn and wine, i.e., great land resources with agricultural blessings and much natural resources.

It includes dwelling in lands of safety without the need of walls.

It includes Ephraim as God's firstborn (Jeremiah 31:9)

It includes Judah still upon the throne of David, on earth.

It includes great military power upon the earth.

It includes believing Judah's portion upon the throne of David

It includes believing Judah's portion of maintainer of God's laws among His Israel of both believing Jews and Gentiles.

It includes the "multitude of nations" that Ephraim was to become

Oh, it of course also includes the care and the going forth of The Faith (The Gospel of Jesus Christ) to ALL nations.

It includes The True House of God among them, with peoples from all nations that believe spiritually joined with them, with their final redemption by Christ bring them ALL together when He returns to Jerusalem.

Most of those do not sound like the nation of Israel, they sound more like the land in which much of Israel currently live, the USA.

"--- It includes the blessing of corn and wine, i.e., great land resources with agricultural blessings and much natural resources.

--- It includes dwelling in lands of safety without the need of walls.

--- It includes great military power upon the earth."

veteran · May 30, 2011

So just WHO are the actual ones TRYING TO STEAL GOD'S BIRTHRIGHT that was transferred to only believers of Christ's Church?

Why it's the orthodox unbelieving Jews!

That's why their temple they plan to build will NEVER measure up to Christ's future Milennium temple per the pattern in Ezekiel 40-47 given to the House of Israel to be established in Jerusalem when Jesus Christ returns.

The whole gist of that fake temple the orthodox unbelieving Jews are trying to build in Jerusalem today is COMPLETELY BASED on their REFUSAL to accept Jesus The Christ as the prophesied Messiah.

Why are those Jews in such a state of confusion about this? It indeed is about God blinding most of them until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in like Paul taught. But that is not the ONLY reason. It's also because, and MAINLY because of the "tares" that have crept in unawares among the unbelieving Jews. Those "tares" are not of the seed of Judah at all, but only claim to be Jews. Those "tares" are the "synagogue of Satan" which Jesus Christ taught about, those that lie and say they are Jews, but are not.

It's those "tares" hidden among Judah today that are driving the seed of unbelieving Judah into confusion, and in the attempt to build another temple to TRY and GO AROUND God's appointed Saviour Jesus Christ.

Those "tares" want the temple; it's because they are preparing it NOT for Messiah, but for 'their' "king of the world", and their god, the Devil himself.

That's why God is going to send them the "strong delusion" Paul taught in 2 Thess.2. That's what that "lie" that they will believe is MEANT especially for them. It will... get Judah's attention when Christ Jesus does return, and they understand how they had bowed in worship to a fake Messiah by the prodding of those "tares" among them.

This is why the doctrines of socialist collectivism and Communism was started by unbelieving Jews. It is why there exists today so many Jews that support Communist ideology. The United Nations and globalist one world government movement is from those "tares", not from the part of Judah that truly loves our Heavenly Father but is deceived by them.

tomwebster said:
Most of those do not sound like the nation of Israel, they sound more like the land in which much of Israel currently live, the USA.

"--- It includes the blessing of corn and wine, i.e., great land resources with agricultural blessings and much natural resources.

--- It includes dwelling in lands of safety without the need of walls.

--- It includes great military power upon the earth."

I think you might be starting to get the idea.

tomwebster · May 30, 2011

veteran said:
...
I think you might be starting to get the idea.

"Might be"

I have known the whereabouts of the Israel for years. Israel is where Israel lives!

veteran · May 30, 2011

avoice said:
This is the way I understand this in my own words you can take it or leave it as you please suit yourself

avoice said:
There will be no sanctified by God Temple until Christ returns ...

Now there will be a temple or perhaps a tabernacle of sorts built that is what the 7 year covenant of A.C. ( Dan 9:27 ) is all about ...its not just about sacrifice of animals its about reinstatement of the law...

Antichrist has one goal to teach another doctrine besides Christ ..to do away with Christ (his first coming) completely He must reinstate the sacrifice ...What does the sacrifice do ? It covers sin ..
the very thing Christ came to die to fulfill .....Its his(A.C.'s) attempt to make Christ null and void

Judah will fall for this as its written they sign on to covenant.

Its at mid week The Abomination that Judah wakes from their stupor..Not Only does AC break the covenant but he now stands in holy of hollies and declares himself to be god...Its at this point most of Judah realizes who A.C. is and comes to understand Christ and join with Christians. .... remember Judah knows the Old testament well they know what written in Dan. and will know the abomination when they see it.

The "tares" among unbelieving Judah are going to be leading them all the way. Let's not forget that. Lot of those "tares" among them are of the very religious leaders that misled them at Christ's FIRST coming. So why should the setting up of the "image of the beast" prevent them from falling away to worship it? I expect only a small minority of them will wake up at that time when the sacrifice is ended and the abomination is set in its place instead.

Judah and Israel have different destinies up to the point of the abomination.
In fact one could loosely say the entire 1st half of the 7 years is about Judah more so than Israel at its core.... The second half of the 7 years 42 months (shortened) is about the world

So the fact Jews want to rebuild a Temple plays right into Gods plan to bring them under Christ with us ..They will get a temple but it will be through Antichrist.

I don't think that many of them will wake up during those events, but will have to experience the shock of Christ's coming to wake them up. By then it'll be too late. They will not be discarded because of their being God's election, but they won't be gathered among Christ's Church to serve Him at His table. Even many Messianic Jews are being fooled by the "tares" plan to rebuild their own temple in Jerusalem today.

Ezekiel 44 reveals a group of Levite priests that will be in charge of all the menial tasks involving Christ's temple. They won't be allowed to come near Christ. They, along with deceived Christian brethren that fall away to the Antichrist will be in the same sad condition.

avoice · May 30, 2011

I agree with you that the tares will lead the way
Its absoulty against Judism to worship any idol as it is Christains this will cause many to wake up ...Do not forget other things are happening also the two wittness the Elect being delivered up ect.
how many will awake ..we shall see .
.but God can not join the two sticks till all come under Christ ..And one can not be of the first resurrected at all unless they accept Christ before he returns even if its 1 second before.

Joshua David · May 30, 2011

So just WHO are the actual ones TRYING TO STEAL GOD'S BIRTHRIGHT that was transferred to only believers of Christ's Church?

Why it's the orthodox unbelieving Jews!

And the actual reason for this "lost" ten tribes comes out. Anti-Semetism at it's finest. I am just really surprised that it took you this long to admit it.

I'm sorry veteran. I can never accept this.

Rom 11:29 [sup]29[/sup]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Joshua David

Episkopos · May 30, 2011

Joshua David said:
Yes, but there were certain promises and gifts that God gave just to the Israelites. The difference being for instance, the land in Israel. God gave that land specifically to Israel. Now salvation is a gift that is given to all men, whosoever will. But when you claim to be a member of the 'lost' ten tribes of Israel, then what you are doing is in fact, stealing the birthright of the True Israelites that God promised those things.

That is all that I am saying.

Joshua David

Is this about real estate or the kingdom of God? Israel according to the Spirit goes further than temporal land rights!

avoice · May 30, 2011

Joshua David said:
And the actual reason for this "lost" ten tribes comes out. Anti-Semetism at it's finest. I am just really surprised that it took you this long to admit it.

I'm sorry veteran. I can never accept this.

Rom 11:29 [sup]29[/sup]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Joshua David

I agree with you JD I missed that quote by veteran ...there is only one trying to
steal anything and that is Satan himself who wants to be god.
The battle of tribulation is about the battle of Satan vs God for the souls of men not birth rights

veteran · May 30, 2011

Joshua David said:
And the actual reason for this "lost" ten tribes comes out. Anti-Semetism at it's finest. I am just really surprised that it took you this long to admit it.

I'm sorry veteran. I can never accept this.

Rom 11:29 [sup]29[/sup]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Joshua David

Then you didn't really mean what you said about there being no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ's Church and God's Kingdom per Apostle Paul in the rapture thread.

If the inheritance is to Abraham by Promise, and all those under Christ of the Gentiles have become heirs through Abraham, like Paul said in Galatian 3, then that is about God's promises to Israel. I'm amazed that you reject that, when Apostle Paul did not, and Paul was a Jew!

What I'm surprised that took so long to come out is how you're apparently affiliated with those unbelieving orthodox Jews who refuse Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ. Your speech actually is in support of them and their plans for Jerusalem.

By that you have made it clear that you do not believe ANY of this...

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(KJV)

Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(KJV)

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(KJV)

Rom 4:13-14
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
(KJV)

Rom 4:16-17
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before Him Whom he believed, even God, Who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
(KJV)

Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
(KJV)

Rom 8:17
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.
(KJV)

Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(KJV)

Ezek 47:21-23
21 So shall ye divide this land unto you according to the tribes of Israel.
22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.
(KJV)

Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
(KJV)

tomwebster · May 30, 2011

Joshua David said:
[/size][/font]
And the actual reason for this "lost" ten tribes comes out. Anti-Semetism at it's finest. I am just really surprised that it took you this long to admit it.
...

Absolutely nothing anti-Semitic about it, true Judah is our brother. And you’re accepting it nor not doesn't make a difference.

veteran · May 30, 2011

avoice said:
I agree with you JD I missed that quote by veteran ...there is only one trying to
steal anything and that is Satan himself who wants to be god.
The battle of tribulation is about the battle of Satan vs God for the souls of men not birth rights

I wouldn't be too quick to choose sides with Joshua, just because of his false accusations and assumptions of what I said.

Unbelieving Israel is cut off today, still, for refusing Christ Jesus The Messiah. If you don't understand what their attempt to build another temple in Jerusalem and start up the Old Covenant worship again is about, then you it would mean you don't understand that difference from The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

The coming tribulation is NOT just going to be over souls. It is also about the LAND which God promised first to... Israel? No. First to Abraham!

The Salvation Promise by FAITH first given through Abraham IS... the promise Apostle Paul was speaking about under Christ Jesus to ALL believers on Him (per Gal.3 and Rom.4), not just to believing Israel only, but to believing Gentiles also! And that promise first given to Abraham INCLUDED all the original Birthright promises within it, which is what Christ's inheritance is about. That's is what the 'heir' message in Gal.3 is about, and WHY all those in Christ are called "children of Abraham" by Apostle Paul.

The struggle for Jerusalem today, and for the tribulation is especially about Satan's attempt to claim it as his own, when God has already claimed it for Himself, for ever. If you don't understand that, then you couldn't really understand what the coming tribulation is really about, Satan coming to play God on earth.

Don't let Joshua confuse you about that, for obviously he is against what Paul said about that concerning Gentiles becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

And YES, the orthodox unbelieving Jews in Paul's day also thought he was anti-Israel for preaching that idea about believing Gentiles becoming joint-heirs with Christ Jesus. The unbelieving Jews also caught this idea when Christ Himself preached it, and was another reason why those Jews treated our Lord Jesus as a seditionist, come to overthrow the nation of Israel.

veteran · May 30, 2011

Joshua David: "Yes, but there were certain promises and gifts that God gave just to the Israelites. The difference being for instance, the land in Israel. God gave that land specifically to Israel. Now salvation is a gift that is given to all men, whosoever will."

God gave promises specifically to the seed of Israel first, but... those of unbelieving Israel rejected them when they refused The Saviour He sent, Jesus Christ.

What you're trying to do is infer that the seed of Israel is going to be saved regardless of what they believe and who they follow, when Apostle Paul never inferred any such idea as that...

Rom 11:19-20
19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(KJV)

Rom 11:23
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
(KJV)

That right there refutes the idea that all the seed of Israel in the absolute sense is going to be saved through Christ Jesus.

But when you claim to be a member of the 'lost' ten tribes of Israel, then what you are doing is in fact, stealing the birthright of the True Israelites that God promised those things.

The Biblical facts are that God scattered the whole House of Israel (which means the ten tribe kingdom that was first under Jeroboam), AND, they never returned to the holy land as a group.

Nor did the majority of the ten tribes as a group mix among Judah like you try to say, for even Jewish rabbi through history admit they have not, and that they are still lost to the world, even today.

When you reject this Biblical Truth from God's Word and start up false claims of it being an anti-Semitic teaching, you're actually doing that as a theft away from God's promises specifically to that "house of Israel" ten tribe group that was separated from Judah a long time ago. It means you're the one actually throwing away God's promises He gave about the ten tribes of Israel as a separate body among the Gentiles apart from Judah.

The "tares" among the Jews really hate the ten lost tribes prophecies from God's Word, for they want only themselves to be recognized as God's true Israel today, and to mean only Jews are the seed of Israel. They got real problems with that when God's people stay in His Word for themselves, for God's Word even shows how some foreign peoples took that title of Jew. (the scribes that dwelt at Jabez per 1 Chron.2:55 were Kenites, a people that came from the nations of Canaan; in Esther 8, many of the people 'became Jews', for fear of the true seed of Jews; many of Esau once the nation of Edom was destroyed by God then became Jews among the Judah in Judea; per the Jewish historian, the Herods were of Idumean birth from Esau; and, some of the chief priests among the Jews were from Esau per Josephus' histories).

But God did an amazing thing, and it may tick off unbelieving Jews, but that's just how it is. God moved His vineyard of Israel among the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, and sent His Salvation to the Gentiles after the Jews had rejected it. The ten lost tribes of Israel just so happened to be scattered amongst those Gentiles when The Gospel was preached to them both, together, at the same time. And many of them both believed, and both together became the inheritors of Christ's future Kingdom, Christ's Church.

Apostle Paul tried one last time to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ out of the Books of Moses and the prophets to the chiefs of the Jews in Rome. Some accepted it, while there was disagreement between them as a whole, which is why Paul then said this to them by The Holy Spirit...

Acts 28:25-28
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, "Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
(KJV)

avoice · May 30, 2011

veteran said:
I wouldn't be too quick to choose sides with Joshua, just because of his false accusations and assumptions of what I said.

Unbelieving Israel is cut off today, still, for refusing Christ Jesus The Messiah. If you don't understand what their attempt to build another temple in Jerusalem and start up the Old Covenant worship again is about, then you it would mean you don't understand that difference from The New Covenant Jesus Christ.

The coming tribulation is NOT just going to be over souls. It is also about the LAND which God promised first to... Israel? No. First to Abraham!

The Salvation Promise by FAITH first given through Abraham IS... the promise Apostle Paul was speaking about under Christ Jesus to ALL believers on Him (per Gal.3 and Rom.4), not just to believing Israel only, but to believing Gentiles also! And that promise first given to Abraham INCLUDED all the original Birthright promises within it, which is what Christ's inheritance is about. That's is what the 'heir' message in Gal.3 is about, and WHY all those in Christ are called "children of Abraham" by Apostle Paul.

The struggle for Jerusalem today, and for the tribulation is especially about Satan's attempt to claim it as his own, when God has already claimed it for Himself, for ever. If you don't understand that, then you couldn't really understand what the coming tribulation is really about, Satan coming to play God on earth.

Don't let Joshua confuse you about that, for obviously he is against what Paul said about that concerning Gentiles becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

And YES, the orthodox unbelieving Jews in Paul's day also thought he was anti-Israel for preaching that idea about believing Gentiles becoming joint-heirs with Christ Jesus. The unbelieving Jews also caught this idea when Christ Himself preached it, and was another reason why those Jews treated our Lord Jesus as a seditionist, come to overthrow the nation of Israel.

LOL thanks but I agree with no one just because they something that sounds good.
I know my understanding of the word that God has given me just fine, very secure in it as a matter of fact ...
He truly happens to be right on that fact IMHO........

Joshua David · May 30, 2011

Veteran,

This has been the argument that has fueled every anti-semitic argument all through history. All through the crusades, and even the Holocaust. But hear me when I say this.

Rom 11:28 [sup]28[/sup]As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

This is the reason that I like the Jews. I realize that concerning the gospel, they might not yet accept Jesus as their messiah, but you know what.. Jesus loved the Jews when they rejected him the first time.

Luke 13:34-35 [sup]34[/sup] “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. [sup]35[/sup] Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

Jesus still loved the Jews, even though they rejected him, he still longed to gather them as a hen lovingly gathers her chicks. And even though they, for the most part, still reject him, he still loves them. And Jesus said that he is not done with them, for he said you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, which means to me that one day, they will say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." and on that day, they will see him and recognize him for who he is.

But his love does not start at that point, the truth is his love never stopped, and no matter what argument you try to make, I will say that I love the Jews. I am glad that Jesus is the kind of person that loves us, even while we were sinners, even though up to the point in our life before we accept Jesus Christ ourselves, Jesus still LOVED us.

Satan may have blinded you with his hate for the Jewish people, but I say that I bless the Jews, and I bless all of Israel.

Joshua David

avoice · May 30, 2011

Joshua David said:
Veteran,

This has been the argument that has fueled every anti-semitic argument all through history. All through the crusades, and even the Holocaust. But hear me when I say this.

Rom 11:28 [sup]28[/sup]As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

This is the reason that I like the Jews. I realize that concerning the gospel, they might not yet accept Jesus as their messiah, but you know what.. Jesus loved the Jews when they rejected him the first time.

Luke 13:34-35 [sup]34[/sup] “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. [sup]35[/sup] Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

Jesus still loved the Jews, even though they rejected him, he still longed to gather them as a hen lovingly gathers her chicks. And even though they, for the most part, still reject him, he still loves them. And Jesus said that he is not done with them, for he said you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, which means to me that one day, they will say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." and on that day, they will see him and recognize him for who he is.

But his love does not start at that point, the truth is his love never stopped, and no matter what argument you try to make, I will say that I love the Jews. I am glad that Jesus is the kind of person that loves us, even while we were sinners, even though up to the point in our life before we accept Jesus Christ ourselves, Jesus still LOVED us.

Satan may have blinded you with his hate for the Jewish people, but I say that I bless the Jews, and I bless all of Israel.

Joshua David

Amen
Joshua David we may not see eye to eye on all the details but I am 100% with you here
best post in this thread and when they see whats soon will occur we will be standing on the right side

veteran · May 31, 2011

Joshua David said:
Veteran,
This has been the argument that has fueled every anti-semitic argument all through history. All through the crusades, and even the Holocaust. But hear me when I say this.

What has? that God scattered the ten tribes apart from the "house of Judah", and sent The Gospel among the Gentiles because the unbelieving of Judah wouldn't accept it?

You really ought to believe God's Word on that, but it's clear you don't, but instead believe other things not from His Word. And now you infer that people like Apostle Paul in Acts 28 and God's prophets who taught that message is responsible for the holocaust? What a deceiver and bearer of false witness you are.

Rom 11:28

[sup]28[/sup]As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

This is the reason that I like the Jews. I realize that concerning the gospel, they might not yet accept Jesus as their messiah, but you know what.. Jesus loved the Jews when they rejected him the first time.

Are you trying to say I hate Jews now? What a deceiver you are.

The word 'Jew' comes from the sole tribe of Judah. It was the name that a small remnant of Judah began using when they returned to Jerusalem after the Babylon captivity. The REST and MAJORITY of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi stayed in Babylon after the 70 years, and they were further scattered through the nations. Lots of them wound up among the ten tribes of the house of Israel, and lots of them were in those lands of Asia Minor and Europe where Christ's Apostles took The Gospel to the Gentiles. Lot of even Judah among the Gentiles believed on Jesus Christ. The Crusades to the holy land had nothing to do with those. But I can see how unbelieving Jews could have stirred up Christians to go take Jerusalem back during the Crusades, and it failed, because God was not behind it.

The unbelieving Jews still refuse Christ Jesus, and have been trying to re-create Israel of their 'own' designs to bring back the Old Covenant ways, which is what their idea of building another temple in Jerusalem today is about. But obviously, you appear to believe Christ Jesus is going to agree with them on that, and come and sit in that temple, instead of it being destroyed like He foretold for at His return. Your own words betray you on that point. Maybe you even send money to that Temple Mount Faithful group working that today?

Luke 13:34-35 [sup]34[/sup] “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. [sup]35[/sup] Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

Jesus still loved the Jews, even though they rejected him, he still longed to gather them as a hen lovingly gathers her chicks. And even though they, for the most part, still reject him, he still loves them. And Jesus said that he is not done with them, for he said you will not see me again until you say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, which means to me that one day, they will say, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." and on that day, they will see him and recognize him for who he is.

You're leaving a whole lot of Bible Scripture out, for Christ also said when He returns lot of the children of the kingdom, meaning unbelieving Israel, will be cast out when they see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(KJV)

For those of them that refuse Him, it will be too late, and they will have to go through Christ's thousand years reign while outside the gates of the Holy City.

But his love does not start at that point, the truth is his love never stopped, and no matter what argument you try to make, I will say that I love the Jews. I am glad that Jesus is the kind of person that loves us, even while we were sinners, even though up to the point in our life before we accept Jesus Christ ourselves, Jesus still LOVED us.

Satan may have blinded you with his hate for the Jewish people, but I say that I bless the Jews, and I bless all of Israel. Joshua David

You're starting to sound like a Universalist now, which is the basic attempt to annul God's judgments. It is my hope, like it was Apostle Paul's hope, that the unbelieving Jews will turn to Christ Jesus. But I know not all of them will, just as not all Gentiles will either. So do you love only Jews that still refuse Christ, and not Gentiles that are still in darkness too without Christ? It would appear so, with all the hype you're trying to make.

avoice said:
Amen
Joshua David we may not see eye to eye on all the details but I am 100% with you here
best post in this thread and when they see whats soon will occur we will be standing on the right side

Then tell us what you think is going to happen? Just what is it that you and Joshua know about that "soon will occur" that will mean you're standing on the right side?

I hope you don't mean the temple the orthodox unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem plan to build prior to Christ's return is what you're talking about, for if it is, you won't be part of the gathering to Christ Jesus when He comes if you take part in that false working. Do you not know why that is?

It will be because of taking part in false worship, putting trust in the Old Covenant which God ended when His Son died on the cross. It's the same thing as denying Christ Jesus as the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time.

TheWarIs1 · Jul 24, 2011

I agree with Vet.

Joshua David sounds like a common Jewish name.
Not that I mind that. Just saying it's easy to see how he may be confused on scriptures if he is used to Jewish talk.

the shaming language he used is extremely common amongst Jews.
It comes up in most every conversation about non-Jews.
It's pure manipulation techniques admitted to by Jews in the know.

The shaming won't work here.

To bless or curse Israel and be blessed or cursed is to bless the real Israelites in the nations they live not the impostors that stole land from Palestinians,.
The real Israelites (Lost tribes but known to a few) have been the builders and the wealthiest most productive, Gospel spreading peoples on earth. .

If a nation curses them they would do without any blessings
to bless them or Befriend them would bring a nation blessings

2 Chron 11:14-17 and the lost tribes

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