!!!! Warning !!!!....What Many "Minsters" Don't Tell You!

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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Arena...are you going to quote the same scriptures over and over to support what you think. Water Baptism itself does NOT save anybody. And water baptism isn't the only doctrine of God's words...which Lord Jesus has spoken. It is essential to be baptized for the Lord Jesus Christ because it gives us a good conscience towards God. But only if we love Him with all of our heart, soul and mind. It doesn't give us a good conscience towards God if we only trust that doctrine and ignore the rest of God's Words to save us.I Peter 3:18-22 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.Lord Jesus did indeed command Christians to be baptized.Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.But if you think that Water Baptism itself saves people. You are dead wrong. This is not the only God's words in the bible. Can I remind you of 2 verses?John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Luke 4:4 - And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

arenamistica

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I don't ever remember saying that "water baptism" was the ONLY thing that God required! If I did, please quote me.... I distinctly remember saying that believing in one's heart/confessing with ones lips is not enough .Salvation goes far beyond "lip service" if you will. As one of the Apostle's said...faith without works is dead! I directly stated that "water baptism" in Jesus Name is necessary..and is part of a process (as stated in my last reply). This was stated because there are a whole lot of people who are going around thinking/saying that they are saved and well...according to the Bible many are not. PLEASE see Acts 2:38.God's Word says that His people perish because of the lack of "knowledge."So, I am informing them, with God as My Helper, so that they will be "without excuse" when they go before God's Throne of Judgement.If you have questions about this (even if you don't) then see my previous posts[B]..."What one Must do to be Saved" [/B]and "God Gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven" which talk a little bit more "indepth" about the Salvation "process." Better(Best) yet, go to God/God's Word (with a humble heart and a mind to really want to understand/know about what He requires) and He'll clear up any misunderstandings!
 

Jordan

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And you saying that our hearts are hardened. And do you realized that you are posting this over and over. You had created 4 threads (topics) of the same thing over and over. Kriss, Betchevy, Denver, B, and I (at least) aren't playing lip service. Lip services are people who thinks they know Jesus and think that OSAS...I say unto ye, we need to grow spiritually. Again, I agree with the water baptism.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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(arenamistica;11044)
The thief on the cross was another situation. Jesus(God in the flesh) was on the cross but he had not died yet (therefore the law was still in effect...). This man's history is also unknown to us, he could have been a circumcised Jew who fell astray.... So, technically, the New Covenant didn't apply to him (he was still under the law). Remember Abraham...the Holy Bible says that his faith in God and the promise that God made to him/his seed was counted/applied to him as/for "righteousness". Abraham was under the law, which was continued on until Christ died on the cross and etc...***I hope this helps some..
Talk about reading what you want into scripture."If" he was a circumcised Jew under the law he would have had to follow Jewish law going to the temple to offer a sacrifice ext. to be cleansed. So your logic makes no sense. He believed upon Christ period, and that's why he was forgiven his sins.And if you want to talk guessing what if Christ died first,before the thief, the thief would not have been under the old law either way your scenario is wrong.Christ is our ONLY way to salvation baptism is a wonderful symbol of cleansing ourselves outwardly of our sins and devoting our lives to Christ But it is NOT REQUIRED for salvation. You can keep repeating your scripture ignoring what the original language (see Betchevy's post)says and its still WRONG you are misleading people saying that anyone who has died or will die without being water baptized wasn't/isn't saved you are not only wrong you diminish the word of God and POWER of Christ with this false teaching.Be very careful here false teachers/preachers are among the first Judged. I will repeat Christ alone is our saviour !!!!!! and what did he say we should do? belive upon him,repent or ASK. He did Not say be baptized.Jhn 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Jhn 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do [it]. Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. And then there are those that were choosen predestined no where does it say you will become choosen if you get baptized first. Whether they decided to be baptized or not they were still choosen to do Gods will and are still among the saved. Why? Because they belived and were choosen period. Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.Revelation 2:10 (NKJV) Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Notice it DOES NOT say to get baptized and be faithful
 

arenamistica

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Again, I ask you....please stop twisting my words (which is actually "lying"). The gravity here comes in when people "lie on God" and say that His Word does not say something that it "most clearly" says....and/or saying that it says something that it clearly did not say or "twisting it" to fit man's philosphies (which may I add is DUNG in comparison to God's Wisdom and Knowledge). So, please try/examine your "spirit" (make SURE that it REALLY IS of GOD). The Almighty God that I know IS THE SPIRIT of TRUTH!I did not say that Jesus Died 1st....nor did I say that the thief on the cross that was crucified alongside Christ WAS MOST DEFINITELY a circumcised Jew...and as I recall...ONLY priests were allowed to offer sacrifices to God on the people's behalf...I said that "he could have been" a circumcised Jew and that his history (life before the cross) is relatively "unknown to us"... (other than the fact that he was on the cross because he was thief).I did not say specifically say/name anyone as just displaying "lip service"...BUT I guess as the saying goes...:" if the shoe fits (if there was no guilt on your part then you should not have been offended by this comment). "Bottom line, Salvation is the Bible Way, which ultimately is God's Way....take it or leave it (I thank God for the "gift" of choice/free-will)! Put away foolish pride/humble yourselves to God and live! Matthew 10:14 - And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Mark 6:11 - And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Luke 9:5 - And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.(KJV)TheSJ, Thank God that He has allowed you to accept/know what you already do about the significance of "water baptism" in Jesus Name. Be encouraged (which was what I was "trying to do to you in post/reply at 2:53 pm yesterday...encourage you not to "waver" on what God's Word says...well anyway to GOD Be ALL the Glory) and just continue to seek God for all Truth. Make sure that you have the Holy Ghost (not saying that you don't already.....) as the Bible specifies...evidenced by speaking with other tongues as God's Spirit gives utterance. Remember fasting (for real...no food or drink) is required and is part of Holy Living (God' Word tells us how to do this as well). Evidence of Having the Gift of the Holy Ghost:Acts 2:1-4(KJV)1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.Fasting Notes:Matthew 6:16-18(KJV)16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 17 But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face; 18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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This is the time that Christ got baptized by water.
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Matthew 3:13-17 - Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.The thief died...he didn't get baptized and yet Christ said he would be with Him in paradise/heaven.Luke 23:42-43 - And he (the thief) said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.Only evidence of that I can understand is...Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Christ (at the time after He rose from the dead) (Died in Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, John 19) still said to be baptized. He say that whosoever believeth and IS baptized shall be saved. but also notice in the same verse of Mark 16:16, he said that whosoever didn't believeth in Him shall be damned. He didn't say whosoever didn't believeth in Him and IS NOT baptized shall be damned.Although Peter repeats the same thing that the Lord says in Matthew 28:19.Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.On the below Scripture...it says that in Noah's Flood time 8 souls saved by water. Now the baptizing...it saves us, if we do it for Christ's sake...cause it gives us a good conscience towards God. Noah's Flood time and baptizing are figure like. I Peter 3:18-22 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------John 3:1-7 - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.I say unto ye, Christ was no where near talking about water baptism here...in those seven verse. We are already born in our mother's womb...but to be born again, we must have the Spirit that gives us understanding. (not the unclean spirit) Again, that "water" was talking about flesh, sac of the water...
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Greek word for the word baptize(d) in those verses mention everywhere on this topic... is #907 - baptizo bap-tid'-zo from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Greek word for the word water is #5204 - hudor hoo'-dore, and genitive case, hudatos hoo'-dat-os, etc. from the base of 5205; water (as if rainy) literally or figuratively:--water.Same Greek word for "water" for flesh, and "water" baptizing.P.S. God likes it when people thinks. I love to think.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

arenamistica

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Be encouraged to pray to God/read His Word and ask him (sincerely) to open up your eyes/understanding/heart to what His Word truly says. In one instance You say that you believe baptism is required as supported by God's Word.... and yet you twist God's Word to support the opposite. Either you believe in what God's Word says or you don't (my mistake for assuming that you were sure of the matter). God's Word does not contradict itself...it cannot!The thief was still under the OT law..JESUS WAS ON THE CROSS BUT HE HAD NOT DIED YET.....the same OT Law by which God counted/applied Abrahams "faith" in God/God's Promise as "righteousness" (remember God's Word said that a testament doesn't take affect until the death of the testator).Be careful not to think to hard, which can be a negative when it comes to the things pertain to God! Some things He just wants us to accept because He said it, not because we have analyzed...and analyzed..and analyzed something "to death" (figuratively speaking). Remember when Jesus asked people on more than one occasion...why did they reason within themselves .....which is "doubt" more or less. God's Word IS Perfect and True! One Lord, One faith, One baptism...
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(arenamistica)
Be encouraged to pray to God/read His Word and ask him (sincerely) to open up your eyes/understanding/heart to what His Word truly says. You are very confused and God is not the author of confusion.In one instance You say that you believe baptism is required as supported by God's Word.... and yet you twist God's Word to support the opposite. Either you believe in what God's Word says or you don't (my mistake for assuming that you were sure of the matter). God's Word does not contradict itself...it cannot!God's Word IS Perfect and True! God's Way or No Way at All.One Lord, One faith, One baptism...
You think I am confused arena? You think I am contradicting myself? If you think that thief (who did not get baptized)...Christ said he would. I just think the Lord's words has confound the wise. (I Corinthians 1:25, I Corinthians 1:27) You are right that God is not the author of confusion. (I Corinthians 14:33) If you think that Christ said this...(Look below)(Made Up addition of Mark 16:16 Bible Verse)He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned.Then what happen to the thief at the cross, Is he damned too? Then I say unto ye, Christ will have easily contradict Himself, and he shouldn't be God...but since He is God, he can't contradict Himself. One of us is obviously is mistaken...I'm not the one here. Being baptized with water is a very good thing because Christ was showing us the way...Lovest ye in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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(arenamistica;11065)
Again, I ask you....please stop twisting my words (which is actually "lying"). The gravity here comes in when people "lie on God" and say that His Word does not say something that it "most clearly" says....and/or saying that it says something that it clearly did not say or "twisting it" to fit man's philosphies (which may I add is DUNG in comparison to God's Wisdom and Knowledge). So, please try/examine your "spirit" (make SURE that it REALLY IS of GOD). The Almighty God that I know IS THE SPIRIT of TRUTH!I did not say that Jesus Died 1st....nor did I say that the thief on the cross that was crucified alongside Christ WAS MOST DEFINITELY a circumcised Jew...and as I recall...ONLY priests were allowed to offer sacrifices to God on the people's behalf...I said that "he could have been" a circumcised Jew and that his history (life before the cross) is relatively "unknown to us"... (other than the fact that he was on the cross because he was thief).I did not say specifically say/name anyone as just displaying "lip service"...BUT I guess as the saying goes...:" if the shoe fits (if there was no guilt on your part then you should not have been offended by this comment). "
You go on this big speech of me twsting your words . This just goes to show it is not me who cant read straight and is twisting I never said, "you said" Christ died first. I said if you want to play guessing games what if Christ died first? It was a question. and as far as your "lip service complaint show me anywhere I said anything about "lip service".So your speech is based on nothing.To nit pick whether a priest had to offer the sacrifice is an attempt to mislead it is obvious that under the old law as you said the thief may be under he would have had to gone to the temple to and follow Jewish laws to be cleansed. You know thats true so you nit pik an unimportant tecnecal type-o detail to mislead. It was perfectley clear what I was saying and you know its right. That fact remains this verse (and many others) completely contradict your water baptism theory so you must try to make others sound as if they are attacking you rather than face the truth that you are wrong. So who is being prideful?You are right we know very little about this person except he was a thief. Why do you think that is? Because we Know all we need to know. The message is right there he Believed upon Christ as son of God. Therefore he was saved THE END. No water baptism just Belief.I am not the one twisting words to make them fit my false doctrine. I suggest you you reread all your warnings and take them to heart.I repeat there is no water baptism requirement.And what does the Holy spirt in Acts have to do with water baptisim? unless you are saying the only way they could recieve the Holy spirit was to be water Baptized. Is this what you are saying? If so prove it.
 

Christina

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Mark 16:16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemnedActs 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.Both of these verse say baptism true but what is the baptism for?Matthew 3:11"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.After the death on the cross how do we get repentance? Is it by water orby belief ?
 

Christina

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The Baptisim that is in effect is Baptisim of the heart. Hebrews 10:22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.Draw near to God with what? A sincere Heart and faith(believing)causing our hearts to be sprinkled(baptized)Baptism of the HeartWhy should we wash our bodies?As an outward sign our heart has been baptized this is pleasing to God and even desired by God but NOT REQUIRED by God. Water baptism in its self saves no one. 1 Peter 1:22Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heartPurified yourselves how? By obeying the truth. Not by getting baptized1 John 5:10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.Who has his testimony in thier heart? Anyone who belivesNot anyone who was baptized and belives.
 

arenamistica

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Yes, you are confused and God is not the author of it (satan is). So, ask God to clarify things for you.(arenamistica;11065)
Again, I ask you....please stop twisting my words (which is actually "lying"). The gravity here comes in when people "lie on God" and say that His Word does not say something that it "most clearly" says....and/or saying that it says something that it clearly did not say or "twisting it" to fit man's philosphies (which may I add is DUNG in comparison to God's Wisdom and Knowledge). So, please try/examine your "spirit" (make SURE that it REALLY IS of GOD). The Almighty God that I know IS THE SPIRIT of TRUTH!Bottom line, Salvation is the Bible Way, which ultimately is God's Way....take it or leave it (I thank God for the "gift" of choice/free-will)! Put away foolish pride/humble yourselves to God and live! Matthew 10:14 - And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Mark 6:11 - And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Luke 9:5 - And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.(KJV) [/B]
May God have Mercy on you that do not yet believe. Those who really want God's Wisdom continue to seek him (whole-heartedly) so that he may reveal unto you the hidden mysteries and true holiness (100%). With This I close, knowing that God's got my back! He also backs up His Word! To God Be All the Glory!!!
 

Jordan

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Yet I think you are so confounded, that you can't seem to comprehend on what I said, bud...and thou think that I am confused...yet you have not shown me proof that I was confused...This is one of the example that I'll requote for you.(Jordan)
Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Christ (at the time after He rose from the dead) (Died in Matthew 27, Mark 15, Luke 23, John 19) still said to be baptized. He say that whosoever believeth and IS baptized shall be saved. but also notice in the same verse of Mark 16:16, he said that whosoever didn't believeth in Him shall be damned. He didn't say whosoever didn't believeth in Him and IS NOT baptized shall be damned.
(Jordan)
If you think that Christ said this...(Look below)(Made Up addition of Mark 16:16 Bible Verse)He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned.Then what happen to the thief at the cross, Is he damned too? Then I say unto ye, Christ will have easily contradict Himself, and he shouldn't be God...but since He is God, he can't contradict Himself. One of us is obviously is mistaken...I'm not the one here. Being baptized with water is a very good thing because Christ was showing us the way...
The verse for the thief is(Scripture)
Luke 23:42-43 - And he (the thief) said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Tell me, is the thief damned for not being water baptized? or is he saved? I can say these words with confidently.P.S. I got nothing to hide.Lovest ye in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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(arenamistica;11074)
Yes, you are confused and God is not the author of it (satan is). So, ask God to clarify things for you.May God have Mercy on you that do not yet believe. Those who really want God's Wisdom continue to seek him (whole-heartedly) so that he may reveal unto you the hidden mysteries and true holiness (100%). With This I close, knowing that God's got my back! He also backs up His Word! To God Be All the Glory!!!
My words back to you It is not I/we that are confused.you can not dispute us with scripture so you run and keep spreading your false doctrine to others. On top of that you make judgements that because I/we have a different understanding it is not from God. and we do not seek whole hardedly. How arrogant is that? To claim God has shown you this thing,(not backed by the scripture)? No one judges our hearts but God.You are right about God not being the author of confusion the only one here trying to confuse things is you. scripture is very clear: Believe upon the Lord with all thine heart and repent from your sins and you shall recieve salvation. Now I ask you who is confusing the word of God with a water baptism requirement thrown in the mix?
 

Jordan

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Kriss, I think we used all the scriptures, that the water baptism doctrine...does not save anyone itself. It is a meaningful way to follow Christ though.
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Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahushua) our Lord and Saviour.P.S. I really have nothing to hide.
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2nd P.S. I think his/her post is more towards me.
 

Jordan

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Amen! and Amen! It's great to try to help members get off false doctrines as rapture, OSAS, water baptism saves and ignore all the other words, etc...but if they want to have their doctrines that is not from God...it's their choice. But...I Corinthians 14:38 - But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
 

jodycour

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I've been Baptised in Jesus name only!That is the true way to be Baptised! Jesus is the only name under Heaven in which we must be saved!Baptism is not what saves us! Only the Blood of Jesus is what saves us!We get baptised because of the salvation, not for salvation!
 

Jordan

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Very nice put jodycour. I am in full of agreement.
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Lovest thou in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour.
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