I'm a non-Christian, where can I post?

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
We believe the human purpose is to become Christ.

We become like Christ.
We are only Christ in the sense we are connected to his body by the Spirit of God.
In fact, it is because we have the same Spirit inside of us as is in Christ that we are like him.
And we believe that being like Christ is the very purpose of our existence.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
We believe the human spirit is like a seed of Christ.

We believe the seed of Christ is his Word.
The human spirit is the womb where the seed of Christ grows to birth the image of Christ in us.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
even if we are Ferris Christ or Edward Christ, that doesn't mean we are Jesus Christ.

Whew! That's good, because that's a huge red flag to us.

"4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." Matthew 24:4-5

In Christianity, anyone claiming to actually be the Christ is instantly rejected with no consideration whatsoever given that it might be Him.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
And just because we are completely Christ, that doesn't mean Christ is just us. We become the substance of Christ.

Fundamentally, I have no problem with the phrase "we are completely Christ", though we may differ on what that actually means. And it looks like you recognize and maintain the centrality and headship of Jesus himself. And we believe we are the substance of Christ in that we behave like him. Our character is the substance of Christ. In this life, besides literally having the Holy Spirit within us, Christ-like character is the extent to which we are the substance of Christ.

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Truther said:
What is a Veridican?

Is that a non Christian, Christian?

Please elaborate, thanks.

Fine, and if I get kicked out of the forum for doing so, then so be it. Veridicans follow ONLY Jesus Christ, so we reject most of the Holy Bible, except for the Gospels and Revelation. We prepare for the end times, which have been happening since Jesus left, but now, like birth pains, are getting exponentially closer. We practice spiritual gifts like prophecy and astral projection. We believe that we become what Christ was--we become Christ. And this is accomplished through our ritual of the Eucharist. We are astrologers, and we examine the stars and planets to determine the forces God has placed upon the earth. In other words, we look for His signs in the stars, just like the Magi did.

We are the elect. We are the chosen. We are the one sheep the shepherd leaves the rest of the flock to find. We are the 144,000. We are one with Christ, and as such, we are one with God. He is our Father, and we are His Son.

This church, while dormant for a long time, began in 1993 as a response to the Waco tragedy. It has come alive in response to the vaccine tyrany today. The bottom line is, we are facing the end times. Civilization has less than 100 years, and we are the bride of Christ preparing ourselves for the coming Kingdom of God on Earth.

That's Veridicanism in a nutshell.

Taken · Dec 14, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
We become like Christ.

Agree, not Him...rather LIKE Him.

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
Whew! That's good, because that's a huge red flag to us.

"4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." Matthew 24:4-5

In Christianity, anyone claiming to actually be the Christ is instantly rejected with no consideration whatsoever given that it might be Him.

Ferris Bueller said:
Fundamentally, I have no problem with the phrase "we are completely Christ", though we may differ on what that actually means. And it looks like you recognize and maintain the centrality and headship of Jesus himself. And we believe we are the substance of Christ in that we behave like him. Our character is the substance of Christ. In this life, besides literally having the Holy Spirit within us, Christ-like character is the extent to which we are the substance of Christ.

If you want to live forever, you have to be Christ. No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven. The salvation Jesus Christ gives us is that we can become what He is. Jesus did say many would come claiming "I am He." But we don't do that. Jesus is "He." We die to who we are and we become what He is, but He is more than we. We are all Him, but He is not just us. He is God, and we can't understand God except by looking through the filter of Him.

There are two parts to me: There is me and there is Christ. But I am a useless nothing, and I am dying every day more and more. But the me that is Christ, is eternal. It unifies with Christ and that is like a religious ecstasy. I can't wait for this body to die, for then I will be one with Christ and there will be no separation between us. Actually, that is already the case, but I can't see it. Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit tells me it is so. So, I believe it.

It is hard for me to explain heavenly things. It's hard for me to tell you how I died 28 years ago and was reborn as a seed of Christ. Keep this in mind: If you won't become one with Christ. If you won't die and become what He is; how can you ever be His disciple. How can you ever say you actually love him?

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Ironically, I'm working on a short explanation right now for a sermon video that explains the Veridican Eucharist ritual. It's transubstantiation, like the Catholics, but it differs in that we believe our individual faith turns the bread into the body of Christ and the wine into the blood of Christ, not a centralized priest. We have priests and deacons, but in the most important ritual moment, the Eucharist, we all become High Priests.

Protestants believe that we take the benefit of Christ's body and blood into ourselves via the indwelling Holy Spirit. Christ's body nourishes us in the sense that his death is a prepared sacrifice that nourishes us to eternal life, not physical life (at least not yet), through the Holy Spirit. The flesh counts for nothing. It is the Spirit that gives life:

"63The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing." John 6:63

Technically, the communion elements (the blood and body of Jesus) are received, and their benefit applied, when we believe in Jesus Christ as the accepted and approved sacrifice for our sin. At that moment we receive the life those elements provide. Just as if we'd eaten a loaf of bread or some other food to give us physical life. And it only needs to be received once, not repeatedly. And so his body is actual food that way.

Of course, the actual blood and body of Christ was presented to God in heaven on the altar in the heavenly tabernacle when he ascended into heaven. And so we make that sacrifice by faith, by believing in what has already been sacrificed in heaven. The wine and the bread are a commemoration of the sacrifice we have already partaken of by faith, not an actual partaking of the body and the blood of Jesus. That would profit nothing anyway. The flesh can only nourish flesh, not the spirit of a man.

Taken · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Fine, and if I get kicked out of the forum for doing so, then so be it. Veridicans follow ONLY Jesus Christ, so we reject most of the Holy Bible, except for the Gospels and Revelation. We prepare for the end times, which have been happening since Jesus left, but now, like birth pains, are getting exponentially closer. We practice spiritual gifts like prophecy and astral projection. We believe that we become what Christ was--we become Christ. And this is accomplished through our ritual of the Eucharist. We are astrologers, and we examine the stars and planets to determine the forces God has placed upon the earth. In other words, we look for His signs in the stars, just like the Magi did.

We are the elect. We are the chosen. We are the one sheep the shepherd leaves the rest of the flock to find. We are the 144,000. We are one with Christ, and as such, we are one with God. He is our Father, and we are His Son.

This church, while dormant for a long time, began in 1993 as a response to the Waco tragedy. It has come alive in response to the vaccine tyrany today. The bottom line is, we are facing the end times. Civilization has less than 100 years, and we are the bride of Christ preparing ourselves for the coming Kingdom of God on Earth.

That's Veridicanism in a nutshell.

Did you found Veridicanism?
How many people would you estimate practice Veridicanism?

Thanks.

Glory to God,
Taken

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Taken said:
Agree, not Him...rather LIKE Him.

In other words, you still remain you. I mean, it sounds like humility but really it's a kind of hatred of Christ. A kind of arrogance. You would never give up who you are to be what He is. You want your life.

And I'm not judging. I really am not. I totally get what you are saying. But at some point, we have to realize that we are corrupt and dying. We cannot live forever like we are. I am not fully Christ at this time in my life. It's one of my greatest regrets because I've been the founder of this, and I have traveled so many divergent paths trying to find Christ that I have wasted most of my life. But I am sprouting. I am a germinating seed of Christ, and what I don't accomplish here, I believe he will let me accomplish after my physical death. So, I'm not judging you at all. I would bet that I'm a worse sinner than you have ever been. I would bet on that. But here I stand.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Taken said:
And fair warning...you may have an expectation of a cordial exchange of dialogue, but that may not always be the case.

As long as a belief system is understood to be completely outside of the pale of traditional Christian orthodoxy exchanges can remain cordial. It's when something is perceived as invading or undermining Christianity itself, from within, that's when it can get dicey, lol.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
In Veridicanism, only the life and teachings of Jesus Christ are holy, so our canon is very much limited to that.

I'm curious what you do with the Book of Hebrews, since we do not know for sure who the author is, and it is all about Jesus. Sometimes I think God veiled who the author is so it can be a useful tool to sidestep sectarianism. We don't know what sect it belongs to!

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Taken said:
Did you found Veridicanism?
How many people would you estimate practice Veridicanism?

Thanks.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, I am the founder. I started it in 1993 following the Waco incident. In fact, I believe the Waco tragedy happened in order to start Veridicanism in the world. But there are only 6 of us at this time. While Veridicanism started 28 years ago, we have only solidified what it means recently. The "church" and its mission began Nov 4, of this year. That's it. I have amassed a great deal of spiritual wisdom in those 28 years. Now it is time to freely give it to others who love Jesus Christ.

Taken · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
If you want to live forever, you have to be Christ.

I would rather say, Forever life requires a transformation to BE LIKE the Wholeness of God; body, soul, spirit; which is effected by a mans desire and Gods works; which becomes the reward of the whole of a man to Forever Be WITH the whole of God.

No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven.

My perspective is;
Body’s of (earthly) men neither come down from heaven or go up to heaven.
Souls of men and spirits of men, come down from heaven and go up to heaven...IF they have become transformed.

Glory to God,
Taken

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
As long as a belief system is understood to be completely outside of the pale of traditional Christian orthodoxy exchanges can remain cordial. It's when something is perceived as invading or undermining Christianity itself, from within, that's when it can get dicey, lol.

And I get that. I don't really think I'm a Christian. So, I am not a heretic. I am a Christian when the word means "follower of Christ," but we both know it refers to the world Church of Christendom. And Veridicans just are not part of that. I guess I am a Christian if Mormons are considered Christians or if the Branch Davidians were considered Christians.

Ferris Bueller said:
I'm curious what you do with the Book of Hebrews, since we do not know for sure who the author is, and it is all about Jesus. Sometimes I think God veiled who the author is so it can be a useful tool to sidestep sectarianism. We don't know what sect it belongs to!

Our canon is as follows: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Revelation, Thomas, and the Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. So we don't do anything with the book of Hebrews. It's an interesting read. A smart early Christian wrote it, and so I have read it several times for the wisdom it contains, but Veridicans follow ONLY Jesus Christ, so we canonize only those Gospel records of his life and teachings mentioned above.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Classic Christians, on the other hand, believe they remain who they are even after they are saved. They form a kind of partnership with Christ, yes; they make Christ their leader, yes, but they always retain who they are. They never give their soul to Christ the way Veridicans do.

Actually, that isn't the classical Christian view. That is a modern view. Probably most endorsed in what has become known as Hypergrace or Freegrace Theology. It supports the very real idea of the new man, but it's mainly an inner spiritual man change, not necessarily an outer man change. Almost concluding that's just not really possible, or even necessary! That does not represent traditional, historical Christian theology in my opinion.

Edward Gordon · Dec 14, 2021

Taken said:
I would rather say, Forever life requires a transformation to BE LIKE the Wholeness of God; body, soul, spirit; which is effected by a mans desire and Gods works; which becomes the reward of the whole of a man to Forever Be WITH the whole of God.

My perspective is;
Body’s of (earthly) men neither come down from heaven or go up to heaven.
Souls of men and spirits of men, come down from heaven and go up to heaven...IF they have become transformed.

Glory to God,
Taken

I'm curious: What do you think we become when we are born again? What changes? If I was a Homo Sapiens Sapiens when I became saved, what did I become after that?

I'm off to bed now, but I will check this tomorrow. It's been a true blessing to talk with you tonight, Taken.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Finally, there are differences in our spiritual practices: Classic Christians use water baptism

Do you keep Jesus' command to be water baptized?

Taken · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Yes, I am the founder. I started it in 1993 following the Waco incident. In fact, I believe the Waco tragedy happened in order to start Veridicanism in the world. But there are only 6 of us at this time. While Veridicanism started 28 years ago, we have only solidified what it means recently. The "church" and its mission began Nov 4, of this year. That's it. I have amassed a great deal of spiritual wisdom in those 28 years. Now it is time to freely give it to others who love Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your reply.

Interesting you were sparked to start your journey as you mention after the Waco incident.
Post #27 you said; “you have to be Christ”.
Would you say that was a similar teaching of David Koresh, that he applied to himself?
Did you study “Koresh”, his teachings, that inspired your “spiritual walk” ?

Curious.

Ferris Bueller · Dec 14, 2021

Edward Gordon said:
Finally, there are differences in our spiritual practices: ...Christians ... speak in tongues.

Which makes me want to know what you do with the Old Testament scriptures, since that gift is prophesied, or at least alluded to, in the OT. Jesus endorsed the Old Testament canon of scripture as we know and accept them today, fully and totally. Do you?

I'm a non-Christian, where can I post?

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