How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

Duckybill · Jun 9, 2011

[email protected] said:
Where do you get a computer out of this? The word doesn't even appear in the Bible, neither is there the slightest inference of it.
A computer could be used, but something very low tech could also be employed.

I agree with supposition #3 and assert that the 'falling away' or great apostacy as rendered by others is indeed at hand.
Many deny it, but facts and figures show this to be true. Not only are we in the season of the apostacy, but nearly at the end of it. Neck deep would be a good metaphor to use in this instance.
THE NEXT THING that appears is the anti-christ and there is already significant evidence to show that this person will be Muslim. He is called al-Mahdi and his coming is soon.

Your estimate of ten years is interesting. It could be ten, but it could also be much less.

What will cause a man to assume to the role of world leader practically over night? Financial collapse.

Have a look at history. The greatest and most recent example of a dictatorial rise is after the financial collapse of the 1930's.
In point of fact, such a thing cannot happen unless the money is first stripped of its value.

What is happening now?

Is it coincidence that AT THE SAME TIME as the church's apostacy is nearly finished we should be witnessing the possibility of a global collapse of finance?

al-Mahdi, also called the Twelfth Imam, is about to be revealed. Those that look for his coming are called twelvers.
When Mahdi is revealed, the second coming of Christ will be virtually imminent....less than seven years....three point five to be exact.
No man can predict the hour or day of Christ's coming, but many know we are in the season.

Very interesting. The world is sure a mess, but God is in control. His return is certainly very near.

Matthew 24:21 (ESV)
[sup]21 [/sup]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

revturmoil · Jun 12, 2011

THE NEXT THING that appears is the anti-christ and there is already significant evidence to show that this person will be Muslim. He is called al-Mahdi and his coming is soon.

The Mahdi, which many Muslim's believe was bin Laden, may be the biblical false prophet. The evil dajjal (The Muslim 'anti-christ') may be the biblical anti-christ.

One of them will make the world wonder when 'he' returns. And that could be Saddam Hussein whose head was nearly ripped off of his body. Or Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden who was considering if he was the Mahdi and was shot in the head just above his left eye.

Duckybill said:
Very interesting. The world is sure a mess, but God is in control. His return is certainly very near.

Matthew 24:21 (ESV)
[sup]21 [/sup]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

If God were in control the world would not be in a mess and there would be no sin, no death, and no tribulation.

We live on a fallen planet. God isn't in complete control.....yet!

Duckybill said:
[/b]The internet seems to be false prophet heaven.

If you don't own a mirror I suggest you get one.

I don't question peoples salvation and I don't tell people they're going to simmer in hell just because they disagree with me.

YOU DO!

I'll tolerate you for a little while. But you're just as I described...

An undesirable!

veteran · Jun 12, 2011

The deceived won't recognize when the tribulation has begun, which will include those on the Pre-trib secret rapture doctrine of man.

That is the whole point of why Apostle Paul showed that Christ's coming will take the deceived by surprise "as a thief in the night" on the "day of the Lord."

The coming great tribulation won't be upon the deceived, it will only be upon Christ's faithful saints that stay sober and watching.

Our Lord Jesus gave us all kinds of warnings about a pseudo-Christ coming first to work great signs and wonders and miracles to fool the deceived. That pseudo-Christ coming first is what the Pre-trib rapture folks are going to accept in place of the true coming of Christ later to end the tribulation.

That's why the Pre-trib folks are deceived. It's a doctrine developed especially to lead them to the Antichrist, the false one that comes first which they will think, and believe, is our Lord Jesus Christ. They simply don't know how they're being prepared like an early winter fig that ripens during the winter, but falls off in the Spring. They are not heeding Christ's revealing of the true time of harvest, which is summer, at the end of the tribulation.

And because they won't heed the proper time of Christ coming and our gathering to Him, they will literally HATE us who remain faithful and waiting for Christ's true return later at the summer harvest time. During the tribulation, some of those will have us delivered up for refusing the fake Christ that comes first, which is who they will accept in place of Jesus.

The direct meaning of the word "antichrist" in the Greek is from two words, 'anti' and 'Christos'. In Greek, the word 'anti' also means 'instead of' or 'in place of'. They will wrongly accept the 'Instead of Christ', the final Antichrist. That's who their religious leaders are directing them to, most of them in ignorance.

The coming Antichrist knows this, which is why he comes first to deceive the whole world.

Thus the coming tribulation of persecution will not be upon those deceived, for they will believe Jesus has already returned, and that we who refuse that "another Jesus", a fake, have gone astray. They will treat us as the real troublemakers, for WE who will stand in Christ Jesus waiting for His return after that antichrist WILL NOT STOP GIVING CHRIST'S WITNESS TO PREPARE FOR HIS COMING.

Daniel 11 shows the "vile person" (the final antichrist) will destroy using Peace and prosperity (craft will prosper in his hand). It's going to be a 'chicken in every pot' for the deceived who accept him as The Lord. They are going to be in a state of joy in their deception, saying, "Lo, Christ is here!"

This is why Paul taught in 1 Thess.5 that when 'they' shall say, "Peace and safety", that's when the "sudden destruction" shall come upon them. He was pointing to the time when antichrist will reign, proclaiming world peace and prosperity for all, but right after that Christ's true coming will happen, bringing that "sudden destruction" upon them with "the day of the Lord" events.

This is why those will accept the pseudo-Christ that comes first; they won't realize his true identity, and will think he is Christ having come. That pseudo-Christ is to work a show of miracles to prove he is God that will even fool atheists into believing on him.

Because of that deception coming upon them, that's why it's written they will wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them, to hide from the face of The Lamb Jesus Christ when He comes after that working of "strong delusion" upon the deceived. They intended to only worship the True Christ, but instead listened to their false prophets smooth teachings in their ears instead of keeping the patience of God's Word through His Son Jesus Christ.

rjp34652@yahoo.com · Jun 13, 2011

kaoticprofit said:
The Mahdi, which many Muslim's believe was bin Laden, may be the biblical false prophet. The evil dajjal (The Muslim 'anti-christ') may be the biblical anti-christ.

One of them will make the world wonder when 'he' returns. And that could be Saddam Hussein whose head was nearly ripped off of his body. Or Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden who was considering if he was the Mahdi and was shot in the head just above his left eye.

If God were in control the world would not be in a mess and there would be no sin, no death, and no tribulation.

We live on a fallen planet. God isn't in complete control.....yet!

I don't question peoples salvation and I don't tell people they're going to simmer in hell just because they disagree with me.

YOU DO!

I'll tolerate you for a little while. But you're just as I described...

An undesirable!

Muslims do not and did not believe that bin Laden was al-Mahdi.
Bin Laden was a charismatic leader of Muslim jihad (Holy War).
Muslim prophecy predicts jihad in the last days. Laden was one leader among many, but not THE LEADER.
Mahdi will be THE LEADER. No Muslim who ever studied their own prophecy ever believed that bin Laden was the great leader of the last days.

Mahdi will sit upon a white horse and lead an army of the black flags.

Bin Laden never sat on anything except his bed in his mansion. Bin Laden and his cohorts never carried black flags.

Interestingly although Muslim tradition states that Mahdi will sit upon a white horse and carry a bow without arrows (a reference to peace or a prophetic image of a rifle?), the Bible states that anti-Christ or the Beast will also enter history seated upon a white horse. BOTH quote Revelations 6:2

Muslim literature prophecies that Mahdi will make a false peace with the Jews for a period of seven years.
The Bible says that the anti-Christ will make a treaty of seven years - and then break it.
Western chronology groups 'years' into sections of ten per decade. Not so with Hebrew and Muslim calendars. Those group years into periods of seven. The prophet Daniel spoke of groups or weeks of years as a group of seven.
When Mahdi makes peace with Israel, start counting - SEVEN YEARS......then what happens? hmmmm

This treaty will be the starting point for a period of lies, murder, and betrayal caused by Mahdi/anti-Christ (stated in hadith literature as well as the Bible).
This seven year period is generally called The Great Tribulation by Biblical scholars.

IT BEGINS with a peace treaty between Israel and the anti-Christ or al-Mahdi as the case may be.

veteran · Jun 17, 2011

Lest we forget, the orthodox Jews must believe that messiah is their Messiah having come. I don't know just how the false messiah will present himself, but I don't think he will be claiming to represent Islam, but all religions.

HeroOfGod · Jun 20, 2011

The 7 year tribulation is not near, it is HERE!!!

Final 7 years are here - Obama is the Antichrist (part I)

Final 7 years are here - Obama is the Antichrist (part II)

Found in the Book of Revelation - Obama's covenant (part I)

Found in the Book of Revelation - Obama's covenant (part II)

Obama's covenant - word for word

Scriptural interpretation of the confirming of Daniel 9:27 covenant

Summary of evidence for Oct 29, 2008 to be the start of the final 7 years

Great Tribulation starts April 11, 2012 - confirmed in heavens

Odds of Daniel 9:27 covenant not on Oct 29, 2008 are 1 in 21,024,000

Just who is this guy -- Obama?

Blow the trumpet!
More at www.thefinal7yearsareherenow.com

Duckybill · Jun 21, 2011

kaoticprofit said:
We live on a fallen planet. God isn't in complete control.....yet!

Nothing happens without God allowing it. Nothing.

I don't question peoples salvation and I don't tell people they're going to simmer in hell just because they disagree with me.

YOU DO!

For instance?

I'll tolerate you for a little while. But you're just as I described...

An undesirable!

Your opinion of me means nothing to me.

BibleScribe · Jun 23, 2011

Joshua David said:
I was just curious to know what people thought as to how close we were to the seven year tribulation? I just wanted to say, I didn't really want to turn this thread into a does a seven year tribulation exist vs does not exist thread. If you don't believe in it, great, vote you don't believe in it and move on, or start another thread on why you don't believe in it.

Joshua David

Hi Joshua David,

I appreciate your poll, and would like to provide my best answer, but it isn't provided in your list. So if you don't mind, please allow the following response:

1. A "seven year" tribulation is based upon the errant application of the Daniel 9 "seventieth week". (As such please be aware that the destroyer "shall come" after the seventieth week.) Thus the true tribulation duration appears to be better reflected in the Revelation 13:5 "forty-two months".

2. Revelation 20, verses 4 & 5 provide that the only ones who return with Jesus are those who are martyred. Furthermore, verse 13 provides that the "dead" are raised AFTER the 1,000 years. So we can expect that some saints shall be alive and remain on earth AFTER the Millennial Kingdom, and THESE shall be caught up to be forever with the LORD in the air (i.e., the New Jerusalem).

BibleScribe

PS According to the Prophetic Psalms, (Ref. the J.R. Church book "Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms" concept), the evidence points to 70 years after the founding of the nation of Israel.

veteran · Jun 24, 2011

BibleScribe said:
Hi Joshua David,

I appreciate your poll, and would like to provide my best answer, but it isn't provided in your list. So if you don't mind, please allow the following response:

1. A "seven year" tribulation is based upon the errant application of the Daniel 9 "seventieth week". (As such please be aware that the destroyer "shall come" after the seventieth week.) Thus the true tribulation duration appears to be better reflected in the Revelation 13:5 "forty-two months".

2. Revelation 20, verses 4 & 5 provide that the only ones who return with Jesus are those who are martyred. Furthermore, verse 13 provides that the "dead" are raised AFTER the 1,000 years. So we can expect that some saints shall be alive and remain on earth AFTER the Millennial Kingdom, and THESE shall be caught up to be forever with the LORD in the air (i.e., the New Jerusalem).

BibleScribe

BibleScribe said:
PS According to the Prophetic Psalms, (Ref. the J.R. Church book "Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms" concept), the evidence points to 70 years after the founding of the nation of Israel.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

That reveals the wicked are also raised at the time of Christ's coming, unto "the resurrection of damnation." They are called the 'dead' because they will still be subject to the "second death", even though they are resurrected also, like the "rich man" of Luke 16.

Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(KJV)

All that above is to be fulfilled after... 70 weeks has passed. The 'destroyer' shall NOT come after that 70 weeks, but before the end of the final 70th week, which is the following "one week"...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

BibleScribe · Jun 26, 2011

veteran said:
...
Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

Hi Veteran,

Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version (ESV)
[sup]27[/sup]And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

In fact, if one followed the literal Hebrew text, one should discover that the "weeks" are not the concise Feminine, but rather the inconcise Masculine. Thus for analogy, if one were to ride in a "cool car", only an English language novice would reach for his/her hat, coat, and gloves:

Feminine text = 490
Masculine text ≠ 490

So where the prophecies are shut up and sealed until the time of the end, each would be prudent to wait until ~1948 to interpret the seventy durations of time.

BibleScribe

BibleScribe · Jul 7, 2011

To all,

Reading some of the Posts in this Topic and Forum, I'm a little disheartened that Scriptural/Historical foundations are so shallow as to be non-existent. Take for example the 9th Chapter of Daniel which is the basis for the "seven year tribulation":

1. In 9:2, most presume that Daniel simply read the prophecy of Jeremiah, -- which is the word "shama". However, the text uses "biyn", which is Solomon wisdom. Thus Daniel DID NOT simply ready from the book of Jeremiah, but he instead discerned seventy somethings (words, verses, chapters) in another book which agreed with Jeremiah's seventy "years".

2. In 9:2 the duration is "years", but in 9:25 the duration is the inconcise Masculine gender "week", which is NOT seven. If it were seven, he would have used the concise Feminine gender text. (Please note this is anagalous to a "cool" car, which is NOT a depressed thermal gradient.)

3. The 9:25 "Anointed one"/"Messiah"/"Chosen One" is NOT capitalized. It's merely a designation of ANY King or prophet who is anointed with oil.

4. The 9:25 "seven and sixty-two" are NOT one number. If the AUTHOR had intended it to be one number, HE would have said ~sixty-nine~.

5. There is one anointed one after the seven, and a second anointed one after the sixty-two.

6. The anointed one who is cut off "after" the sixty-two, is not cut off "upon" the sixty-two, but rather simply "after" the sixty-two.

7. The seventieth is NOT the tribulation duration. That duration is provided in Revelation 13 as 42 months.

8. The ~destroyer~ does not come at the beginning, the middle, or at the end of the seventieth. He simply comes "after" the seventieth.

In fact, this chapter is so difficult to resolve, that Montgomery call it the "dismal swamp" of the Old Testament . And yet so many are willing to base their scriptural doctrines on the presumption that they absolutely understand Daniel 9.

But because Scripture confirms Scripture, and we are indeed living in the time of the end, we CAN know the interpretation.

BibleScribe

ronmorgen · Jul 11, 2011

Biblescribe said, "Hi Joshua David, I appreciate your poll, and would like to provide my best answer, but it isn't provided in your list. So if you don't mind, please allow the following response:"

I am of the same temperament. I can't vote here because there is no selection for the true interpretation of Daniels week. This question is loaded from the dispensational viewpoint. When you hear the phrase "seven year tribulation" you can know that the person is advocating a pre-tribulation viewpoint, which is dispensational of necessity. The Catholic church and most churches historically have not held the dispensational view nor did they believe there is a literal 1000 year millennium. Dispensationalism began to be popular in the 15th century, and spread like wildfire in the United States and the world through TV evangelists like Hal Lindsey and popular Christian end time movies.. Amillennial is the bible truth. It places us in the millennium waiting for the imminent return of Christ, the resurrection/rapture of the saints, and the judgment of the wicked.

as illustrated below..

Resurrection to life, and to judgment on the "Last Day".

"This is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:39
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day". John 12:48

veteran · Jul 12, 2011

ronmorgen said:
Biblescribe said, "Hi Joshua David, I appreciate your poll, and would like to provide my best answer, but it isn't provided in your list. So if you don't mind, please allow the following response:"

I am of the same temperament. I can't vote here because there is no selection for the true interpretation of Daniels week. This question is loaded from the dispensational viewpoint. When you hear the phrase "seven year tribulation" you can know that the person is advocating a pre-tribulation viewpoint, which is dispensational of necessity. The Catholic church and most churches historically have not held the dispensational view nor did they believe there is a literal 1000 year millennium. Dispensationalism began to be popular in the 15th century, and spread like wildfire in the United States and the world through TV evangelists like Hal Lindsey and popular Christian end time movies.. Amillennial is the bible truth. It places us in the millennium waiting for the imminent return of Christ, the resurrection/rapture of the saints, and the judgment of the wicked.

That's kind of sad that you believe in amillenialism. A lot of your other posts tend to fall in line with premillenialism.

There's no way I could ever accept that the Revelation 20 events are happening now. That chapter is specifically the events of Christ's "thousand years" de facto reign on earth over all nations with His elect priests and kings.

To think those events were history, or happening now, one would definitely have to have blinders on to not see how this world we live in today really is.

veteran · Jul 12, 2011

BibleScribe said:
To all,

Reading some of the Posts in this Topic and Forum, I'm a little disheartened that Scriptural/Historical foundations are so shallow as to be non-existent. Take for example the 9th Chapter of Daniel which is the basis for the "seven year tribulation":

1. In 9:2, most presume that Daniel simply read the prophecy of Jeremiah, -- which is the word "shama". However, the text uses "biyn", which is Solomon wisdom. Thus Daniel DID NOT simply ready from the book of Jeremiah, but he instead discerned seventy somethings (words, verses, chapters) in another book which agreed with Jeremiah's seventy "years".

Dan 9:2
2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
(KJV)

"by books" - Hebrew cepher (letters), and with "Jeremiah the prophet"; that's definitely pointing to Daniel reading the Book of Jeremiah (or Jeremiah's letters); thus Daniel DID simply read from Jeremiah the prophet, and about what? About the years of desolations of Jerusalem God told Jeremiah (which happened to be 70 years, and thus the reason for the KJV translators including it).

2. In 9:2 the duration is "years", but in 9:25 the duration is the inconcise Masculine gender "week", which is NOT seven. If it were seven, he would have used the concise Feminine gender text. (Please note this is anagalous to a "cool" car, which is NOT a depressed thermal gradient.)

Irrelevant, since the whole period is given in 'weeks', 70 sevens.

3. The 9:25 "Anointed one"/"Messiah"/"Chosen One" is NOT capitalized. It's merely a designation of ANY King or prophet who is anointed with oil.

Hebrew mashiyach can refer to a king, high priest, or The Messiah Who is both KING and High Priest. It is most often rendered 'anointed' in the KJV Bible, which is also used of The Messiah.

Dan 9:25
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(KJV)

The first period of seven sevens (49 years) - command to restore and build Jerusalem - 454 B.C. to 405 B.C. with completion of the walls and dedication of the 2nd temple in Jerusalem.

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(KJV)

Second period of sixty-two sevens (434 years), from 405 B.C. to 29 A.D. when Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. That completed 69 weeks total.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

Third period of "one week" (7 years), still yet to be fulfilled.

That's enough to show what the 70 weeks prophecy to Daniel was about, and, to show that ONLY 69 weeks of it have been fulfilled so far. That understanding is not dependent upon any doctrine of men, neither Pre-trib nor Post-trib, etc. It is plain from the proofs of history.

ronmorgen · Jul 12, 2011

veteran said:
That's kind of sad that you believe in amillenialism. A lot of your other posts tend to fall in line with premillenialism.

There's no way I could ever accept that the Revelation 20 events are happening now. That chapter is specifically the events of Christ's "thousand years" de facto reign on earth over all nations with His elect priests and kings.

To think those events were history, or happening now, one would definitely have to have blinders on to not see how this world we live in today really is.

Dear Veteran,

Timing of the Resurrection
The amillennial view holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age. Amillennialism holds that Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, and at the end of the church
age/millennium , Christ will return in final judgment.

First I want to establish that the rapture is a part of the resurrection of the just. The passed saints are raised, then the living saints changed. The result is the same, “when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. ” 1 John 3:2

1 Corinthians 15 NIV51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
The entire chapter is dedicated the doctrine of the resurrection, but this verse inserted on the rapture shows that the rapture is not separate from the resurrection, but part of it. If I can get agreement on this, I will show that this resurrection of the just occurs on the same day as does the resurrection of the unjust, “The Last Day” or “Day of The Lord”.

"This is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:39
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day". John 12:48
Resurrection to life, and to judgment on the "Last Day".

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:2-3 NIV
Resurrection to everlasting life, and to everlasting contempt both on the "Last Day". There is no room here for 7 years, 1000 years or any such gaps.

Isaiah 295 The LORD Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire... second coming 19 Once more the humble will rejoice in the LORD; the needy will rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. resurrection of the righteous The ruthless will vanish, the mockers will disappear, and all who have an eye for evil will be cut down — Second coming, reward of the righteous, and judgment of the wicked on the same day.

Isaiah 26:19 to end - Isaiah 27:1 19 Your dead will live ; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead… 1 In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea.
Pining day of Satan's demise to the coming of Christ. Chapter division is not to indicate any break in the prophecy. Ch. 27’s day of wrath in which Satan is slain is the same day as ch. 26’s resurrection of the saints, and the rapture.

Isaiah 30:18-32 In the day of great slaughter, when the towers fall, streams of water will flow on every high mountain and every lofty hill. The moon will shine like the sun, and the sunlight will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven full days, when the LORD binds up the bruises of his people and heals the wounds he inflicted. See, the Name of the LORD comes from afar, with burning anger and dense clouds of smoke; his lips are full of wrath, and his tongue is a consuming fire. His breath is like a rushing torrent, rising up to the neck. He shakes the nations in the sieve of destruction; he places in the jaws of the peoples a bit that leads them astray. And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. The LORD will cause men to hear his majestic voice and will make them see his arm coming down with raging anger and consuming fire, with cloudburst, thunderstorm and hail. The voice of the LORD will shatter Assyria; with his scepter he will strike them down. Every stroke the LORD lays on them with his punishing rod will be to the music of tambourines and harps, as he fights them in battle with the blows of his arm.
Pining day of final judgment to coming of Christ

Isaiah 35:3Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way; say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy.
Pining day of final judgment to coming of Christ

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.Matthew 12:38-42
Pining day of final judgment to the coming of Christ, and resurrection of the righteous..

Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath (judgment) , but righteousness delivers from death (resurrection) .
Prov 11:4
judgment and resurrection on day of wrath, same day.

2 Peter 3
10 The day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
I thought that "thief" thing was relating to the rapture. No, the rapture is on the same day as the destruction of the world, and he comes as a thief for the unbelieving.

due to the study I did on second coming and judgment being on the same day, the millennium has to be the church age we are in now. I am very sure of that, and it happens to be the traditional view held for 1800 years and the Catholic view to this date.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

BibleScribe · Jul 12, 2011

veteran said:
Dan 9:2
2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
(KJV)

"by books" - Hebrew cepher (letters), and with "Jeremiah the prophet"; that's definitely pointing to Daniel reading the Book of Jeremiah (or Jeremiah's letters); thus Daniel DID simply read from Jeremiah the prophet, and about what? About the years of desolations of Jerusalem God told Jeremiah (which happened to be 70 years, and thus the reason for the KJV translators including it).

As already provided, the word "perceived"/"understood", is not the simple shama, which denotes reading a given text, but the Solomon wisdom biyn, which is a much more complex perception. Thus Daniel did NOT read the book of Jeremiah, but instead read another book which revealed the interpretation of the seventy INCONCISE Masculine text durations.

veteran said:
Irrelevant, since the whole period is given in 'weeks', 70 sevens.

This might only be irrrelevant to those who have no interest in the literal merit of Scripture:

Feminine text, seventy sevens = 490
Masculine text, seventy sevens ≠ 490

According to Young, the text is in the unusual Masculine gender text, which is not found in any other book, and is not even used in the Daniel Chapter 10 passage, but is ONLY used in this 9th Chapter. As such, the analogy of a "cool car" requiring a hat, coat, and gloves, -- a mistake only and English novice might make. Kinda like the naive statements by Jessica Simpson regarding "Buffalo Wings" and "Chicken of the Sea" tuna.

veteran said:
Hebrew mashiyach can refer to a king, high priest, or The Messiah ...

Of the 39 instances of H4899 mashiyach , 37 are uncapitalized and only 2 are capitalized -- which are the two citations in Daniel 9. This decision to capitalize these two instances is commentary by the translators.

veteran said:
That's enough to show what the 70 weeks prophecy to Daniel was about, and, to show that ONLY 69 weeks of it have been fulfilled so far. That understanding is not dependent upon any doctrine of men, neither Pre-trib nor Post-trib, etc. It is plain from the proofs of history.

Once again, the seven is one duration for which there is an anointed one, and of course, after the sixty-two there is a second anointed one as properly translated by the ESV (and a few other versions):

[sup]25[/sup] Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. [sup]26[/sup]And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.

In addition to the failures already cited, Young observed the the "going forth of the word" carries the inference of a dictate by GOD, -- and not of human origin. Virtually every aspect of this simple Chapter defies your explanations.

Maybe the angel was correct when he stated that the word are "shut up and sealed until the time of the end", and if this were TRUE then maybe Daniel 9 is no longer sealed, and the interpretation is available to be evaluated for the edification of the church.

BibleScribe

tgwprophet · Jul 13, 2011

Comm.Arnold said:
I do believe it has already started and that it is much different than people try and interpret from revelation or some of the movies that have been made, it is a good time.

With the Sacrificial Altar in place and was in use; Triblations begins with the setting of the first temple stone. This takes place 30 days after the Peace treaty is authorized and the Daily Sacrifice is stopped. 1,260 days prior to the Abomination of Desolation which occurs within a time frame +/- up to 35 days of being 2,300 days from the time the Daily Sacrifice began. I hope this helps. The first 1/2 of Tribulation is a "good" time the latter half is wquite the oposite though.

rockytopva said:
How... Gentlemen... How are we going to return with Christ to reign with him a 1,000 years if there be not first a resurrection? What is the purpose of Gabriel blowing his horn and we meeting him in the air? It is so we can get ready to return with Jesus to reign with him a 1,000 years! It's like duh! That ought be so obvious!

And... And if a 1,000 years with the Lord is as 1 day those seven years with Christ will seem like less then 5 minutes!

Maybe ask instead " who is who going to reign over? " Hmmmm,

tgwprophet · Jul 13, 2011

Duckybill said:
[/b]The internet seems to be false prophet heaven.

If you don't own a mirror I suggest you get one.

Please read Daniel 12:12 until it is understood completely... this should help shed light on the rapture. The first half of tribulation is a time of bounty - no need for a raprute yet. And it offers a time for Believers to deny acceptance of the Beas's Mak - something they cannot do until it is made available. In the beginning of the second half is the time the mark of the beast is made manditory - now there is need for a rapture... but for whom? Read the last chapters of Revelation and discover those who have denied the Beast's Mark beung beheaded! Expect then the Rapture being for the old the crippled those who cannot deny the mark of the Beast.... those in prison etc... Now the Mark of the Beast surves a purpose and the Rapture servs a purpose. OH, a clue... Daniel 12:12
Is the only wriitten time God blesses those on Earth, meaning those that curse him, Believers left behind and the Jews about to be attacked.... Those taken in the Rapture received their blessing by the Rapture.

kaoticprofit said:
The Mahdi, which many Muslim's believe was bin Laden, may be the biblical false prophet. The evil dajjal (The Muslim 'anti-christ') may be the biblical anti-christ.

One of them will make the world wonder when 'he' returns. And that could be Saddam Hussein whose head was nearly ripped off of his body. Or Osama bin Muhammad bin Laden who was considering if he was the Mahdi and was shot in the head just above his left eye.

If God were in control the world would not be in a mess and there would be no sin, no death, and no tribulation.

We live on a fallen planet. God isn't in complete control.....yet!

I don't question peoples salvation and I don't tell people they're going to simmer in hell just because they disagree with me.

YOU DO!

I'll tolerate you for a little while. But you're just as I described...

An undesirable!

Of course God is in complete control - Satan just deosn't get it - everything he does is for the benefit of God's Glory! God's control for us is currently "GRACE" but though it "seems" as though it is not God's will - if you look closely you understand by giving us "freewill" when we chose God we have glorified God and accepted his Son - Jesus!

veteran said:
That's kind of sad that you believe in amillenialism. A lot of your other posts tend to fall in line with premillenialism.

There's no way I could ever accept that the Revelation 20 events are happening now. That chapter is specifically the events of Christ's "thousand years" de facto reign on earth over all nations with His elect priests and kings.

To think those events were history, or happening now, one would definitely have to have blinders on to not see how this world we live in today really is.

Does anyone really think Jesus is at the helm yet we have gay marriages, abortions and serial killers and rapists? For one to stretch Tribulation to a 1,000 years or even Revelation to a 1,000 years would certainly be a mis-guided path. Read Revelation prophecies throughout the Bilbe in the pretense as though a day is a day a week is a week and so on... While doing that, hold onto the times prophecy tells us a week is a year or a day is 1,000 years... then ponder how these scriptures must fit.

veteran · Jul 13, 2011

terry said:
Please read Daniel 12:12 until it is understood completely... this should help shed light on the rapture. The first half of tribulation is a time of bounty - no need for a raprute yet. And it offers a time for Believers to deny acceptance of the Beas's Mak - something they cannot do until it is made available. In the beginning of the second half is the time the mark of the beast is made manditory - now there is need for a rapture... but for whom? Read the last chapters of Revelation and discover those who have denied the Beast's Mark beung beheaded! Expect then the Rapture being for the old the crippled those who cannot deny the mark of the Beast.... those in prison etc... Now the Mark of the Beast surves a purpose and the Rapture servs a purpose. OH, a clue... Daniel 12:12
Is the only wriitten time God blesses those on Earth, meaning those that curse him, Believers left behind and the Jews about to be attacked.... Those taken in the Rapture received their blessing by the Rapture.

Hi Terry,

The only time of our gathering to Christ Jesus is at His time of coming on the 7th Trumpet. I've been discussing this with others also about the 7th Vial, which is when Christ comes paralleled to the 7th Trumpet. We are all going to be here on earth to that 7th Trumpet and 7th Vial, and afterwards also. Just as the children of Israel were on earth when God put the plagues upon Egypt, we also will be here through those Vials. Christ is bringing Heaven here; we don't have to leave this earth when His comes.

God's OT prophets, our Lord Jesus, and His Apostles, all showed that Christ's coming will end the tribulation upon His saints, and will destroy His enemies and their beast kingdom upon the earth. It will come suddenly, at an instant, within one hour. At that instant with Christ's coming, all still alive upon the earth will changed to the resurrection body, the wicked too. That change to the spiritual body is required for us to be gathered to Christ where He will return (to Jerusalem). That change involves everyone alive on earth at that same moment (John 5:29).

BibleScribe · Jul 13, 2011

terry said:
...
Does anyone really think Jesus is at the helm yet we have gay marriages, abortions and serial killers and rapists? For one to stretch Tribulation to a 1,000 years or even Revelation to a 1,000 years would certainly be a mis-guided path. Read Revelation prophecies throughout the Bilbe in the pretense as though a day is a day a week is a week and so on... While doing that, hold onto the times prophecy tells us a week is a year or a day is 1,000 years... then ponder how these scriptures must fit.

Hi Terry,

For a simple concept, please consider the parallel to the Genesis week (i.e., 7-days):

1. Adam & Eve were created ~4,000 B.C.

2. Man earns his way by the sweat of his brow. Thus the end of the six days are six thousand years, arriving to ~2,000 A.D.

3. The day of rest is the Millennial Kingdom (where Satan is no longer tempting mankind). It starts at ~2,000 A.D., and ends at ~3,000 A.D.

Thus we see GOD's perfect number of seven completed for the affairs of creation on earth. The New Jerusalem shall be eternal.

BibleScribe

How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

How close are we to the seven year tribulation?

The seven year tribulation will happen within the next 10 years.

The seven year Tribulation could happen within the next 50 years but will probably not happen within

The seven year Tribulation has already started

The seven year Tribulation will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the next 50 years.

I don't believe in the seven year tribulation.

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