Do angels have wings ? Or something we painted on them ?

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grumix8

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The bible refers that malakim is the way how Judaism called angels, the word angel comes from the word “Angelos” greek meaning messenger truth be told they are powerful beings and the order how angels were portay by the catholic church are wrong. The catholic portays them as human and child-like they were never that figure. But in biblical times the bible says it prohibits the israelites from depicting things from heaven.

20:4 exodus

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath.

This is case that angels could not be depicted and painted and most the images in the internet and the catholic paintings from the renassaince are wrong. Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.

Ezekiel 10:1-22

That is closest what is described even though angels appear to him, How did this portrayal of angels in a good vs evil appears that angels will destroy each other

in the celestial war ?

Zoroastrianism
Is the influence that Catholic, Judaism, and Modern-Day Christian fall for it, It teaches that good and evil exist in the plane of angels heirarchy and angels all have wings and all are special beings. such as its monotheism, messianism, belief in judgement after death, conception of heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems. Even though Judaism predates it even before the exile of babylon the kingdoms of Judah and Israel worshipped other Gods and accepted influence from other religions. Zoroastrianism influence it all and this concept of angels and demons arouse.

What is the closest we know on how the angels really look like, how the lord is in his throne with them is

hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

It is reference of what power he is made of and the angels around him are made of fire like his because he is so powerful other ranks of angels under Seraphim, Cherubins, and Ophafins ( Thrones ) can be near him.

G-d is not men or women in appearance but fire he can come down here as man but in heaven his body is fire !!!

The angels are made of his fire and can withstand his enormous power

. The question do angels have wings ? some do and some don’t their is heirarchy that exist but for christians Seraphims are the high order the top but for hebrew (Judaism) chayot ha kadesh are the higher caste but here is an example.

Maimonides

he puts heirarchy like this

Rank Angelic Class Notes

1 Chayot Ha Kadesh [21] See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
2 Ophanim See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
3 Erelim See Isaiah 33:7
4 Hashmallim See Ezekiel 1:4
5 Seraphim See Isaiah 6
6 Malakim Messengers, angels
7 ElohimGodly beings
8 Bene ElohimSons of Godly beings
9 Cherubim See Hagigah 13b
10 Ishim “manlike beings”, see Genesis 18:2 Daniel 10:5

then the christian one

1: Seraphims

2:Cherubins

3:Thrones (Ophanims)

4.Dominations

5.Virtues

6.Powers

7.Principalities

8.Archangels

9.Angels

are the order of christians.

But because of the flood, the destruction of the temple of Solomon when babylon attacked, and other times history is destroyed in Israel by this calamities we do not know the way is organized and rabbi’s say that great information was lost in this incidents of history we do not know how the order is ?

Some scholars say Chayot Ha Kodesh are indeed Archangels so the order maybe switched.

So where does it says angels have wings ? one part says it.

When moses made the ark God instructed him to put wings on the cherubs !

1 kings6:27

27And he placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple. Since their wings were spread out, the wing of the first cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the second cherub touched the other wall, and in the middle of the room their wingtips touched.

It shows the ark was made with cherubs and their wings.

Where does it say they don’t have wings ?

The ophanims ( Thrones)

they do not have wings

Ezekiel 1:15-21

As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
No where in this part do they have wings.

There is error that people see angels like child-like babies that have wings and the Catholic church depicted them as cherubs such A way and the bible never said they look like that but powerful creatures with 4 wings of the Lord !!! People the eyes are fooled for what they see and people who saw angels cannot see the whole being for it is A being of fire.

A fire more greater than suns but what does the bible say about Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel aren’t they archangels shouldn’t they be Chayot Ha Kadesh the truth is Raphael and Uriel are not real they are not God’s angel another error of history they were created by the catholic church. They do not appear in the tanak or bible no aprt. The bible only talks of 2 angels and they are Mikael and Gavriel they are the angels G-d sends to talk to his prophets.

Raphael is made up just like the baby cherubs, also Uriel they are not part of the old testament they do not appear only in the apocryphals books.

So Raphael and Uriel are not bible based but made up.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Nice post.:)

Angels are the first of God's intelligent creation, and are spoken about throughout the Bible as messengers mostly, but Cherubs and Seraphs are also seen in visions. Cherubs are the Guardians, as satan once was in the garden of Eden, hence why he was there to entice the woman into disobedience.
The Seraphs are attendants upon Jehovah's throne and they are amazing in appearance by all accounts.

Thinking about the wings....we can understand that humans in Bible times only equated flight with winged creatures, so it stands to reason that they were presented as having wings to help God's people understand their ability to fly. But when the angels materialized and took on human form, (as messengers like Gabriel who appeared as a man to both Daniel and Mary) they did not appear with wings.
 
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Curtis

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Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.
Angels are spirits who appear as men on earth, all the time.

They appeared to Lot in Sodom as men, for one example - and Paul said you never know when you’re talking to angels, unaware.

Angels can be seen, when they want to be.

In fact some of the fallen angels not only appeared in human bodies, they sired ten foot giants with the daughters of men in Genesis 6 - ( besides all the other scriptural evidence for this, there are currently some fallen angels in chains in hell, for committing sexual sins)

Documentation:

Jud 1:6 Remember the angels who did not stay within the limits of their proper authority, but abandoned their own dwelling place: they are bound with eternal chains in the darkness below, where God is keeping them for that great Day on which they will be condemned.

Jud 1:7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the nearby towns, whose people acted as those angels did and indulged in sexual immorality and perversion: they suffer the punishment of eternal fire as a plain warning to all.

Good angels in heaven don’t sin by having sex, Matthew 22:30, but some of the fallen angels did.
 
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Grailhunter

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Nice post.:)

Angels are the first of God's intelligent creation, and are spoken about throughout the Bible as messengers mostly, but Cherubs and Seraphs are also seen in visions. Cherubs are the Guardians, as satan once was in the garden of Eden, hence why he was there to entice the woman into disobedience.
The Seraphs are attendants upon Jehovah's throne and they are amazing in appearance by all accounts.

Thinking about the wings....we can understand that humans in Bible times only equated flight with winged creatures, so it stands to reason that they were presented as having wings to help God's people understand their ability to fly. But when the angels materialized and took on human form, (as messengers like Gabriel who appeared as a man to both Daniel and Mary) they did not appear with wings.

Wings....humor....metaphor?
Zechariah 5:5-10
Then the angel who was speaking to me came forward and said to me, “Look up and see what is appearing.” I asked, “What is it?”
He replied, “It is a basket.” And he added, “This is the iniquity of the people throughout the land.” Then the cover of lead was raised, and there in the basket sat a woman! 8 He said, “This is wickedness,” and he pushed her back into the basket and pushed its lead cover down on it. Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth. “Where are they taking the basket?” I asked the angel who was speaking to me. He replied, “To the country of Babylonia to build a house for it. When the house is ready, the basket will be set there in its place.”

Isaiah 6:2
Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.

God's instructions regarding the Ark of the Covenant.
Exodus 25:10-22
You shall make two cherubim of gold; make them of hammered work at the two ends of the atoning cover. 19 Make one cherub at one end and one cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim of one piece with the atoning cover at its two ends. 20 And the cherubim shall have their wings spread upward, covering the atoning cover with their wings and facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be turned toward the atoning cover.

Revelation 10:1
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. .... ladder? Jet pack? Ezekiel's flying machine?

Revelation 14:6 14:6? 14-8? 14-9?
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— Jet pack? Ezekiel's flying machine? UFO? Can't be a ladder. I am going to go with wings but I cannot prove it for these scriptures.

No wings but.....
Some use ladders???
Genesis 28:12
And he dreamed, and behold, there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it!

UFO's....LOL....Ezekiel's fly machine...
Ezekiel 1:1-28

Angels, Hebrew מלאך mal'ach "messenger
Sometimes they do not come with the label of angel...and most of time the angel are not named. Angels are mentioned 105 times in the OT. Mostly delivering messages...sneaker net? But anything with any detail comes from texts outside the Bible. And Angel art is a mixture of folklore and tradition that comes from the Jews, Christian, Greco-Roman and other assorted Pagan religions and traditions.

In the NT flying angels are mentioned but not wings. The winged creatures of Revelation are evil.
There was a concern regarding angel worship so, is that the reason that wings and detail info is left out....speculation?

The topic itself is interesting. Most are aware that there are a lot of books written on angels....but where are they getting that information? Some of it comes from personal experiences and visions. So is it wings that they use? If not...what? Now that is a topic. If it is not wings....it has to be something? From there the sky is literally the limit on imaginative speculation. That might make for a interesting discussion....if not wings....what?
 
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Stumpmaster

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Do angels have wings ? Or something we painted on them ?
I don't think God would have commanded the gold cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant to be crafted with wings if it wasn't an accurate representation of them.

Exo 25:18-21 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. (19) Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. (20) And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. (21) You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

Likewise with Solomon's Temple:

1Ki 6:21-28 So Solomon overlaid the inside of the temple with pure gold. He stretched gold chains across the front of the inner sanctuary, and overlaid it with gold. (22) The whole temple he overlaid with gold, until he had finished all the temple; also he overlaid with gold the entire altar that was by the inner sanctuary. (23) Inside the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olive wood, each ten cubits high. (24) One wing of the cherub was five cubits, and the other wing of the cherub five cubits: ten cubits from the tip of one wing to the tip of the other. (25) And the other cherub was ten cubits; both cherubim were of the same size and shape. (26) The height of one cherub was ten cubits, and so was the other cherub. (27) Then he set the cherubim inside the inner room; and they stretched out the wings of the cherubim so that the wing of the one touched one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall. And their wings touched each other in the middle of the room. (28) Also he overlaid the cherubim with gold.

And Isaiah's vision of the Seraphim confirm that indeed some angels do have wings:

Isa 6:1-7 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. (2) Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. (3) And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!" (4) And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke. (5) So I said: "Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts." (6) Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. (7) And he touched my mouth with it, and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; Your iniquity is taken away, And your sin purged."
 

Randy Kluth

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Since older Catholicisim was based in a State Church, virtually all, good and bad, were Catholics. It stands to reason that artists of the time were not particularly "spiritual," and depicted religious items in a carnal way.

That being said, I'm glad the whole society was Christian, regardless of how worldly some individual artists were. Criticism of their work in depicting religious symbols is justified, in my opinion.

Painting religious figures like Walt Disney should be criticized. And excessive nudity in religious art should also be criticized. I'm with you in that respect.

That being said, art should be allowed a degree of liberty in expressing itself in a variety of ways. It is the corrupt idea that should be criticized--not the use of symbolism.
 

Davy

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The bible refers that malakim is the way how Judaism called angels, the word angel comes from the word “Angelos” greek meaning messenger truth be told they are powerful beings and the order how angels were portay by the catholic church are wrong. The catholic portays them as human and child-like they were never that figure. But in biblical times the bible says it prohibits the israelites from depicting things from heaven.
....

What a bunch of confusion.

Genesis 18 and 19 reveal that angels have the image of men. The sodomites in Sodom and Gomorrah saw the two angels as 'men'.

Likewise in Hebrews 13:2, we are admonished to be mindful to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels unaware.

More than likely the idea of angels having wings came from taking certain Biblical passages as literal. Now the 'zoon' (Revelation 4:8 with the word 'beast') are beings that guard God's Throne, and they are specially created beings just for that duty, and are not angels. So one shouldn't confuse them with the angels that appeared with the image of man to Abraham and Lot and Christ's Apostles.

Anything more than this is just wild speculation and leads to superstition, because the pagans of history came up with all sorts of wild ideas about angels and heavenly beings.
 

grumix8

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No davy it is how it was in hebrew times but not how we see in modern times. Your young davy you see simple way but how Ezekiel and Isaiah's times were different but were the raw presence of the Lord and angels among them. Were are sinners and fallen from G-d's grace we have no right from anything.

Unless you go thru the rough stuff you wantfind the Gold of what the scripture is find it Davy because you write things like people from our time say things not with love know that love can uncover those secrets the angels have that Moses, Abraham, Ezekiel, and other prophets saw that the Lord shed on them.

Angels can't be seen with the eyes they are not from this world for the lord said this world is not of his or the will fight for my kingdom. Look to learn to read Hebrew and learnt he language and see that they have more meaning.
 

Bob Estey

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The bible refers that malakim is the way how Judaism called angels, the word angel comes from the word “Angelos” greek meaning messenger truth be told they are powerful beings and the order how angels were portay by the catholic church are wrong. The catholic portays them as human and child-like they were never that figure. But in biblical times the bible says it prohibits the israelites from depicting things from heaven.

20:4 exodus

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in the heavens above, on the earth below, or in the waters beneath.

This is case that angels could not be depicted and painted and most the images in the internet and the catholic paintings from the renassaince are wrong. Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.

Ezekiel 10:1-22

That is closest what is described even though angels appear to him, How did this portrayal of angels in a good vs evil appears that angels will destroy each other

in the celestial war ?

Zoroastrianism
Is the influence that Catholic, Judaism, and Modern-Day Christian fall for it, It teaches that good and evil exist in the plane of angels heirarchy and angels all have wings and all are special beings. such as its monotheism, messianism, belief in judgement after death, conception of heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems. Even though Judaism predates it even before the exile of babylon the kingdoms of Judah and Israel worshipped other Gods and accepted influence from other religions. Zoroastrianism influence it all and this concept of angels and demons arouse.

What is the closest we know on how the angels really look like, how the lord is in his throne with them is

hebrews 12:29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

It is reference of what power he is made of and the angels around him are made of fire like his because he is so powerful other ranks of angels under Seraphim, Cherubins, and Ophafins ( Thrones ) can be near him.

G-d is not men or women in appearance but fire he can come down here as man but in heaven his body is fire !!!

The angels are made of his fire and can withstand his enormous power

. The question do angels have wings ? some do and some don’t their is heirarchy that exist but for christians Seraphims are the high order the top but for hebrew (Judaism) chayot ha kadesh are the higher caste but here is an example.

Maimonides

he puts heirarchy like this

Rank Angelic Class Notes

1 Chayot Ha Kadesh [21] See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
2 Ophanim See Ezekiel 1 and Ezekiel 10
3 Erelim See Isaiah 33:7
4 Hashmallim See Ezekiel 1:4
5 Seraphim See Isaiah 6
6 Malakim Messengers, angels
7 ElohimGodly beings
8 Bene ElohimSons of Godly beings
9 Cherubim See Hagigah 13b
10 Ishim “manlike beings”, see Genesis 18:2 Daniel 10:5

then the christian one

1: Seraphims

2:Cherubins

3:Thrones (Ophanims)

4.Dominations

5.Virtues

6.Powers

7.Principalities

8.Archangels

9.Angels

are the order of christians.

But because of the flood, the destruction of the temple of Solomon when babylon attacked, and other times history is destroyed in Israel by this calamities we do not know the way is organized and rabbi’s say that great information was lost in this incidents of history we do not know how the order is ?

Some scholars say Chayot Ha Kodesh are indeed Archangels so the order maybe switched.

So where does it says angels have wings ? one part says it.

When moses made the ark God instructed him to put wings on the cherubs !

1 kings6:27

27And he placed the cherubim inside the innermost room of the temple. Since their wings were spread out, the wing of the first cherub touched one wall, while the wing of the second cherub touched the other wall, and in the middle of the room their wingtips touched.

It shows the ark was made with cherubs and their wings.

Where does it say they don’t have wings ?

The ophanims ( Thrones)

they do not have wings

Ezekiel 1:15-21

As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each creature with its four faces. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like topaz, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creatures faced; the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. Their rims were high and awesome, and all four rims were full of eyes all around.

When the living creatures moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the living creatures rose from the ground, the wheels also rose. Wherever the spirit would go, they would go, and the wheels would rise along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels. When the creatures moved, they also moved; when the creatures stood still, they also stood still; and when the creatures rose from the ground, the wheels rose along with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in the wheels.
No where in this part do they have wings.

There is error that people see angels like child-like babies that have wings and the Catholic church depicted them as cherubs such A way and the bible never said they look like that but powerful creatures with 4 wings of the Lord !!! People the eyes are fooled for what they see and people who saw angels cannot see the whole being for it is A being of fire.

A fire more greater than suns but what does the bible say about Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel aren’t they archangels shouldn’t they be Chayot Ha Kadesh the truth is Raphael and Uriel are not real they are not God’s angel another error of history they were created by the catholic church. They do not appear in the tanak or bible no aprt. The bible only talks of 2 angels and they are Mikael and Gavriel they are the angels G-d sends to talk to his prophets.

Raphael is made up just like the baby cherubs, also Uriel they are not part of the old testament they do not appear only in the apocryphals books.

So Raphael and Uriel are not bible based but made up.
I sometimes wonder if the angels' wings aren't symbolic of their clear consciences, which allow them to "fly away" from trouble.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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This is case that angels could not be depicted and painted and most the images in the internet and the catholic paintings from the renassaince are wrong. Angels are being we cannot see with the naked eye, only the prophet Ezekiel says in A vision A sight of the Lord with his angels.
If you read the next verse which is _within the context _ you will understand the commandment.
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them; for I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me," Exodus 20:5
Even verse for identifies this manmade image as an "idol", something to be worshipped.
You cannot apply this to artwork in a museum or church. If and when someine bows down, worships, prays to an image THEN that is a sin.
Take a look at the paintimg that Akianne Kramarik lai twd of Jesus when she was only years old. She staryed ha ing bisions of hea en and Jesus and angels at the age of 4 and was give. This gift from God to paint them. Her parents at the time were atheists, so she did 't any ideas from them. Still this portrait of Jesus is not given to us for the purpose of idol worship.