Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, veteran.
Let's look again at this passage of Scripture:
Daniel 8:1-27
1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
KJV
An alternate version I like to use is the Complete Jewish Bible:
Daniel 8:1-27
8:1 After that first vision, it was in the third year of the reign of King Belshatzar that another vision appeared to me, Dani’el. 2 I looked into the vision; and as I looked, I found myself in Shushan the capital, in the province of ‘Eilam. I looked into the vision, and I was by the Ulai canal. 3 I looked up; and as I watched, there in front of the stream stood a ram with two horns. The horns were long, but one was longer than the other, and the longer one came up later [than the other]. 4 I saw the ram pushing to the west, north and south; and no animals could stand up against it; nor was there anyone that could rescue from its power. So it did as it pleased and became very strong.
5 I was beginning to understand, when a male goat came from the west, passing over the whole earth without touching the ground. The goat had a prominent horn between its eyes. 6 It approached the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing in front of the river, and charged it with savage force. 7 I watched as it advanced on the ram, filled with rage against it, and struck the ram, breaking its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it. It threw the ram to the ground and trampled it down, and there was no one that could rescue it from the goat’s power. 8 The male goat then became extremely strong; but when it was strong, the big horn was broken; and in its place arose what appeared to be four horns in the directions of the four winds of heaven. 9 Out of one of them came a little horn which grew extremely big in the directions of the south and east, and in the direction of the Glory. 10 It grew so great that it reached the army of heaven; it hurled some of the army and the stars to the ground and trampled on them. 11 Yes, it even considered itself as great as the prince of the army; the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Through sin, the army was put in its power, along with the regular burnt offering. It flung truth on the ground as it acted and prospered.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, “How long will the events of the vision last, this vision concerning the regular offering and the transgression which is so appalling, that allows the sanctuary and the army to be trampled underfoot?” 14 The first said to me, “Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state.”
15 After I, Dani’el, had seen the vision and was trying to understand it, suddenly there stood in front of me someone who appeared to be a man. 16 I heard a human voice calling from between the banks of the Ulai, “Gavri’el, make this man understand the vision!” 17 He came up to where I was standing, and his approach so terrified me that I fell on my face. But he said to me, “Human being! Understand that the vision refers to the time of the end.” 18 As he was speaking with me, I fell into a deep sleep, with my face toward the ground; but he touched me, set me on my feet, 19 and said, “I am going to explain to you what will happen at the end of the period of fury, because [the vision] has to do with the time at the end. 20 You saw a ram with two horns which are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy male goat is the king of Greece, and the prominent horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the horn that broke and the four which rose up in its place, four kingdoms will arise out of this nation, but not with the power the first king had. 23 In the latter part of their reign, when the evildoers have become as evil as possible, there will arise an arrogant king skilled in intrigue. 24 His power will be great, but not with the power the first king had. He will be amazingly destructive, he will succeed in whatever he does, and he will destroy the mighty and the holy ones. 25 He will succeed through craftiness and deceit, become swelled with pride, and destroy many people just when they feel the most secure. He will even challenge the prince of princes; but, without human intervention, he will be broken. 26 The vision of the evenings and mornings which has been told is true; but you are to keep the vision secret, because it is about days in the distant future.”
27 I, Dani’el, grew weak and was ill for some days. Then I got up and took care of the king’s affairs; but I was appalled at the vision and still couldn’t understand it.
CJB
In both versions, it should be clear from both the prophecy and the interpretation of the prophecy that this is about the end of the Persian Empire's rule over Isra'el and the Macedonian-Seleucid Empire's rule over Isra'el. It WAS "distant future" to Dani'el, even though to us, it is "distant past!" The "little horn" is Antiochus IV 'Epiphanes', not some "antichrist" figure that's supposed to be in OUR future!
Be careful with what it SEEMS to say and check into it to be sure you're on the right path!
What we all need to understand is that "at the time of the end" does NOT mean "at the end of time!" As you read, when you come to such a phrase, ask yourself, "What does "at the time of the end" mean?" "At the end OF WHAT?" "What does the CONTEXT say?"veteran said:
Let's look again at this passage of Scripture:
Daniel 8:1-27
1 In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had there seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
KJV
An alternate version I like to use is the Complete Jewish Bible:
Daniel 8:1-27
8:1 After that first vision, it was in the third year of the reign of King Belshatzar that another vision appeared to me, Dani’el. 2 I looked into the vision; and as I looked, I found myself in Shushan the capital, in the province of ‘Eilam. I looked into the vision, and I was by the Ulai canal. 3 I looked up; and as I watched, there in front of the stream stood a ram with two horns. The horns were long, but one was longer than the other, and the longer one came up later [than the other]. 4 I saw the ram pushing to the west, north and south; and no animals could stand up against it; nor was there anyone that could rescue from its power. So it did as it pleased and became very strong.
5 I was beginning to understand, when a male goat came from the west, passing over the whole earth without touching the ground. The goat had a prominent horn between its eyes. 6 It approached the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing in front of the river, and charged it with savage force. 7 I watched as it advanced on the ram, filled with rage against it, and struck the ram, breaking its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it. It threw the ram to the ground and trampled it down, and there was no one that could rescue it from the goat’s power. 8 The male goat then became extremely strong; but when it was strong, the big horn was broken; and in its place arose what appeared to be four horns in the directions of the four winds of heaven. 9 Out of one of them came a little horn which grew extremely big in the directions of the south and east, and in the direction of the Glory. 10 It grew so great that it reached the army of heaven; it hurled some of the army and the stars to the ground and trampled on them. 11 Yes, it even considered itself as great as the prince of the army; the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Through sin, the army was put in its power, along with the regular burnt offering. It flung truth on the ground as it acted and prospered.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, “How long will the events of the vision last, this vision concerning the regular offering and the transgression which is so appalling, that allows the sanctuary and the army to be trampled underfoot?” 14 The first said to me, “Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state.”
15 After I, Dani’el, had seen the vision and was trying to understand it, suddenly there stood in front of me someone who appeared to be a man. 16 I heard a human voice calling from between the banks of the Ulai, “Gavri’el, make this man understand the vision!” 17 He came up to where I was standing, and his approach so terrified me that I fell on my face. But he said to me, “Human being! Understand that the vision refers to the time of the end.” 18 As he was speaking with me, I fell into a deep sleep, with my face toward the ground; but he touched me, set me on my feet, 19 and said, “I am going to explain to you what will happen at the end of the period of fury, because [the vision] has to do with the time at the end. 20 You saw a ram with two horns which are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy male goat is the king of Greece, and the prominent horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the horn that broke and the four which rose up in its place, four kingdoms will arise out of this nation, but not with the power the first king had. 23 In the latter part of their reign, when the evildoers have become as evil as possible, there will arise an arrogant king skilled in intrigue. 24 His power will be great, but not with the power the first king had. He will be amazingly destructive, he will succeed in whatever he does, and he will destroy the mighty and the holy ones. 25 He will succeed through craftiness and deceit, become swelled with pride, and destroy many people just when they feel the most secure. He will even challenge the prince of princes; but, without human intervention, he will be broken. 26 The vision of the evenings and mornings which has been told is true; but you are to keep the vision secret, because it is about days in the distant future.”
27 I, Dani’el, grew weak and was ill for some days. Then I got up and took care of the king’s affairs; but I was appalled at the vision and still couldn’t understand it.
CJB
In both versions, it should be clear from both the prophecy and the interpretation of the prophecy that this is about the end of the Persian Empire's rule over Isra'el and the Macedonian-Seleucid Empire's rule over Isra'el. It WAS "distant future" to Dani'el, even though to us, it is "distant past!" The "little horn" is Antiochus IV 'Epiphanes', not some "antichrist" figure that's supposed to be in OUR future!
Be careful with what it SEEMS to say and check into it to be sure you're on the right path!
