How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

shturt678 · Apr 30, 2014

Floyd said:
My children (4) are all grown and flown.
They make their own decisions; not for you to worry about Jack.
Keep prayerfully studying the word.
Floyd.

Thank you again for your response!

Our children, ie, before they grew up, have been watching us adults go to church for the whole "1" hour on Sunday then in and of the world during the rest of the 167 hours, ie, what a message we have been sending our children resulting in the condition of our nation today.

Grown up children do make good 'decisions,' however the perceived facts those decisions are based upon is where the problem is.

Just ramblin Jack,

Appreciate you and your words sir.

Floyd · Apr 30, 2014

shturt678 said:
Thank you again for your response!

Our children, ie, before they grew up, have been watching us adults go to church for the whole "1" hour on Sunday then in and of the world during the rest of the 167 hours, ie, what a message we have been sending our children resulting in the condition of our nation today.

Grown up children do make good 'decisions,' however the perceived facts those decisions are based upon is where the problem is.

Just ramblin Jack,

Appreciate you and your words sir.

Believe me Jack; there are some things with our children we do not touch. We have; endeavoured to give the right upbringing (according to our standards),
but we are not happy with some of their actions and behaviour.
However, my wife and I only ever wanted to be their friends in later life; and we still prayerfully work on that.
I remember during the raising years thinking that this was a long haul, and very expensive. But now those years seem easy, because we could make decisions for them.
All of them have gone in different directions spiritually; one in particular is a heartache, because of adherence to "the New Age " philosophy.
The major drawback is that they all think they are right, as do we!
Regards, Floyd.

shturt678 · Apr 30, 2014

Floyd said:
Believe me Jack; there are some things with our children we do not touch. We have; endeavoured to give the right upbringing (according to our standards),
but we are not happy with some of their actions and behaviour.
However, my wife and I only ever wanted to be their friends in later life; and we still prayerfully work on that.
I remember during the raising years thinking that this was a long haul, and very expensive. But now those years seem easy, because we could make decisions for them.
All of them have gone in different directions spiritually; one in particular is a heartache, because of adherence to "the New Age " philosophy.
The major drawback is that they all think they are right, as do we!
Regards, Floyd.

Thank you again for your response!

"wanted to be their friends in later life" perfect! I, too, indeed, treasure my relationship with my three daughters that are probably your age group, ie, what happened to all that time?

Old old Jack,

Thank you again!

DaDad · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi Floyd,

If you are familiar with the concept proposed by J.R. Church in his book "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms", you might consider that Psalms 118 (Book 19, Chapter 118 = 1900s + 118 = 2018) is the absolute middle Chapter in the Bible. Furthermore, Psalms 117 is the absolute shortest Chapter in the Bible, and Psalms 119 is the absolute longest Chapter in the Bible.

Coincidence or DESIGN?!?

With Best Regards,
DD

Floyd said:
No, I am not aware of J.R. Church, or his Book.
The points you make I want to look at.
As regards Scripture, all is Design in my opinion!
Thanks, Floyd.

Hi Floyd,

In case you didn't catch the cryptic construction, the premise is fairly simple. The Book of Psalms is the 19th Book of the Bible, and is prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, with the Chapter for the year, such that Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948. In reading the 48th Chapter you should find the international recognition of the Nation of Israel; and Book 19, Chapter 44 = 1944 should reveal the Holocaust as provided in verses 11 & 22; etc.

Secondly, if we follow Psalms 90:10 one generation of 70 years, and add those 70 years to he 1948 Nation of Israel we arrive to 2018 which I anticipate to be the Return of Jesus during a expected Fall feast event which lasts more than 1-day, -- thus no man knows the "day" or the "hour". Then if we back-out the 42 months of the one-world-government, we arrive to the Spring of 2015 for the U.N. to take the world center-stage.

Or so it might seem.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
To All,

I would propose that we are approximately one year from the BEGINNING of the 42 month Tribulation per Rev. 13:5, -- versus the falsely taught "seven years" which is based upon an incorrect rendering of Daniel 9.

With Best Regards,
DD

Click to expand...

Thank you again for your response!

Let's scrutinize Rev.13:5 together as of great import, and thankful your one of a very few on the planet that really cares!

Rev.13:5's passage lies contextually within the whole antichristian power in the world Rev.13:1-10. The beast is given permission to operate for the "42 months," ie, tjhe whole time till the end of time. Now we have to backpeddle to Rev.11:2, "...and the city, the holy one, they shall tread it down for forty-two months."

The symbolism of the latter passage, "the holy city they shall tread down," is taken from the prophecies of Jesus recorded in Lk.21:24: "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled," correct?

Let's shift from Dan.9 to Dan.7:25 & 12:7, "a season and seasons and a half season," bringing in also Rev.12:14 after we construe with Lk.21:24 as follows:
The two statements about those who shall be devoured by the mouth (Greek idiom of course) of the Roman short sword that was used by the Romans legionaries and about those who shall be carried away as captive slaves into all the Gentiles nations of the Roman Empire are striking prophecies that were most literally fulfilled, ie, 70 A.D. unless you have another date? Ends at the future "1" Return of the Lord Jesus.

Old Jack's opinion

btw we are at the very end of Dan.9:27, "one heptad" = season = / = "7 years" This "Destroyer" = "Prince" = "Antichrist"

DaDad · Apr 30, 2014

shturt678 said:
Let's scrutinize Rev.13:5 together ...

Hi shturt678,

Before you apply the "gingerbread" on the eaves, please start with the foundation:

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

Floyd · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi Floyd,

In case you didn't catch the cryptic construction, the premise is fairly simple. The Book of Psalms is the 19th Book of the Bible, and is prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, with the Chapter for the year, such that Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948. In reading the 48th Chapter you should find the international recognition of the Nation of Israel; and Book 19, Chapter 44 = 1944 should reveal the Holocaust as provided in verses 11 & 22; etc.

Secondly, if we follow Psalms 90:10 one generation of 70 years, and add those 70 years to he 1948 Nation of Israel we arrive to 2018 which I anticipate to be the Return of Jesus during a expected Fall feast event which lasts more than 1-day, -- thus no man knows the "day" or the "hour". Then if we back-out the 42 months of the one-world-government, we arrive to the Spring of 2015 for the U.N. to take the world center-stage.

Or so it might seem.

With Best Regards,
DD

Very interesting DD!
Floyd.

shturt678 · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Before you apply the "gingerbread" on the eaves, please start with the foundation:

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

Thank you again for your reponse!

Now we're getting to da Hawaiian steak & lobster, ie, Rev.12:6, "And the woman (wonder who the "woman" is?) fled into the wilderness,....nourish her for "a thousand two hundred sixty day" (I wonder when the "days" began?) Solve the Sphinx of the "42 months" in Rev.11:2j, and you have a valid solution,ie, the "FOUNDATION" for the visions in Revelation chapters 12 & 13.

Old Jack, trying to build a 'foundation' on the sum and substance of the N.T., ie, the God-man Jesus.

DaDad · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
Before you apply the "gingerbread" on the eaves, please start with the foundation:

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

shturt678 said:
Now we're getting to ...

Hi shturt678,

I guess this means you have no foundation for your doctrines?

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · Apr 30, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

I guess this means you have no foundation for your doctrines?

With Best Regards,
DD

Thank you again for your response and caring again.

I really don't consider those today that are measured in Rev.11:1 that get through the trumpets of delusions of Rev.8:7-9:21 a doctrine, however this wiould be an important 'foundation' being a member of the measured Church even during a full blown apostasy, ie, wouldn't you think?

Old hopefully measured Jack looking for his earmuffs again, ie, Trumpets blasting away above 150 db.

DaDad · Apr 30, 2014

shturt678 said:
I really don't consider ...

Hi shturt678,

Perhaps if you started at the beginning of the Scriptural concepts, you could arrive to an accurate context and/or conclusion:

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · May 1, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Perhaps if you started at the beginning of the Scriptural concepts, you could arrive to an accurate context and/or conclusion:

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

Click to expand...

Thank you again for your reponse!

Let's make sure I didn't overlook anydthing?

Rev.12:3, "....dragon....having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his heads 7 diadems." As with the rest of the visions in Revelation, one must not allegorize nor parse out each figure independently as the visions are not only signified, but apocalyptic type parables with judgment with a promse or in this case a promise with judgment thus must be viewed as a compostte, ie, beginning Scriptural concept, Revelation 101.

Rev.12:3: Dragon, red (hell, fire & blood), 7 heads, 10 horns (complete power) & what is said summarized by me, ie, the antithesis of any scholar, and actually of the lowest paygrade; however my compostie drawn from commentaries and sermons from about 1560 to about 1918 thus they get the credit: On 7 heads (dominion) 7 diadems (royalty) signifies - usurps and arrogates to himself God's position in the hearts of men, ie, the dragon is worshipped as God by apostates.

Maybe it would help if I expouinded the first independent clause (A.T. Robertson p.213). "And there was seen another sign in the heaven," After the indepenpendent clause, "and lo," On this sign it's not said, as was said of the other, that it's "great" (v.1) ; instead of this John uses the interjection "lo," because this sign, or part of the signified composite vision that is not to be disected is strikingly horrible. This term "dragon" is wholly symbolical of course. The identity of thsi dragon is beyond doubt "the devil and Satan." The word "dragon" expresses the extreme connotation of horrror for men, correct?

The seven heads, the ten horns, and the seven diadems on the horns are plainly symboical or signified (Rev.1:1, "to show...he signified"). I do not like walling posts thus will take a breather,

Old Jack's view and bringing other's so called older outdated views forward, ie, without their works I have nothing.

DaDad · May 1, 2014

shturt678 said:
Let's make sure I didn't overlook anydthing?

Hi shturt678,

Is this an "Obama" moment, where he says the opposite of what he does? You haven't said "anything", so I guess you actually overlooked EVERYTHING.

The question was and still pertains to any assertion that Scripture is a pick-and-choose buffet, -- where there is NO foundation, NO context, and therefore NO truth. And so I re-post that foundation to arrive to any "truth" premise.

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · May 1, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Is this an "Obama" moment, where he says the opposite of what he does? You haven't said "anything", so I guess you actually overlooked EVERYTHING.

The question was and still pertains to any assertion that Scripture is a pick-and-choose buffet, -- where there is NO foundation, NO context, and therefore NO truth. And so I re-post that foundation to arrive to any "truth" premise.

WHY does Rev. 12 have SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" versus the Rev. 13 having TEN diadems over the "ten horns", and WHY did the locations and quantities change.

With Best Regards,
DD

Click to expand...

Thank you for your response again.

Only I was hoping that you would have been a little more specific where I'm in error regarding the grammar, context, and/or implicatude sir? Exactly, specifically what did I overlook?

Old Jack,

DaDad · May 1, 2014

shturt678 said:
Exactly, specifically what did I overlook?

Hi shturt678,

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

3. WHY did the locations and quantities change.

To All,

I don't mind playing word games with people who can't/won't answer a simple question, but assert complex understanding. We see this in Washington, we see this at work, we see this in the church, -- and it has a name.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · May 1, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

3. WHY did the locations and quantities change.

To All,

I don't mind playing word games with people who can't/won't answer a simple question, but assert complex understanding. We see this in Washington, we see this at work, we see this in the church, -- and it has a name.

With Best Regards,
DD

Click to expand...

Rev.12:3 The 'location' in heaven (I have the 'location' as not really physically in heaven, but only a part of a vision like I stated repeatedly before, ie, a "vision," ie, location in timelessness and spacelessness to expound somewhat.

Rev.13:1 The 'location' earth (I have the 'location' as coming up from the earth) as I stated repeatedly before, ie, a 'vision," ie, location in timelessness and spacelessness to expound somewhat.

The 'locations' of timelessness and spacenessness, ie, a vision, 'location' hasn't changed as I said repeatedly before, ie, these are signified visions as I also stated repeatedly before yet you consider this a word game?

I don't want to bring aboard the 'quantities' have changed at this point, althrough I stated repeatedly stated before why (a power thing) on previous posts as to why, as you may think this is Scrabble which I never was that good at?

Old Jack,learning the rules of the 'game.'

DaDad · May 6, 2014

DaDad said:
1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

3. WHY did the locations and quantities change.

shturt678 said:
Rev.12:3 The 'location' in heaven

Rev.13:1 The 'location' earth

... 'location' hasn't changed ..

Hi shturt678,

Given your assertion, please respond to the following:

Rev. 12 SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

1.a . It is understood that the "location" is the "seven heads".

1.b. Is it the "seven" or the "heads" (or combination) which you suggest = "in heaven"?

1.c. What criteria makes the "seven" and/or "heads" = "in heaven"?

1.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "seven" and "heads", and your criteria.

Rev. 13 TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

2.a. It is understood that the "location" is the "ten horns".

2.b. Is it the "ten" or the "horns" (or combination) which you suggest = "earth"?

2.c. What criteria makes the "ten" and/or "horns" = "earth"?

2.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "ten" and "horns", and your criteria.

shturt678 said:
The... 'location' hasn't changed ..

Scripture and your own doctrine would suggest otherwise:

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" -- (which apparently = "in heaven", per you own premise)

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns" -- (which apparently = "earth", per you own premise)

3. Please resolve your contradiction.

shturt678 said:
I don't want to bring aboard the 'quantities' have changed at this point, ..

I hope you will provide your SEVEN / TEN "diadem" change in quantity, after completing your premise of the transition from the "seven heads" to the "ten horns".

With Best Regards,
DD
To All,

Please allow that prophecy is interwoven, and tangents converge toward the circumstances of the Tribulation, such as:

1. Is there a Tribulation?
2. What is the duration?
3. Who are the international participants?
4. Will the church be removed?
5. Will the church return?

As such, I hope my query as to the foundational aspects of Rev. 13 are constrained within the context of Rev. 12, per the above discussion.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · May 6, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

Given your assertion, please respond to the following:

Rev. 12 SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

1.a . It is understood that the "location" is the "seven heads".

1.b. Is it the "seven" or the "heads" (or combination) which you suggest = "in heaven"?

1.c. What criteria makes the "seven" and/or "heads" = "in heaven"?

1.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "seven" and "heads", and your criteria.

Click to expand...

Not only another "A," but 5 golden stars for caring even though results in agreeing to disagree!

Rev.12:3, "And there was another sign in the "heaven" That this "other sign" was also seen "in the heaven" self explanatory, ie, I'm more of a signified vision viewer of symbolic composites rather than parsing out each figure.

Agreeing to agree, ie, to the symbolic location of the "diadems."

Agreeing to disagree, ie, This dragon, the devil, would be God so that all men might bow before him, ie, "earth dwellers."

Rev. 13 TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

2.a. It is understood that the "location" is the "ten horns".

2.b. Is it the "ten" or the "horns" (or combination) which you suggest = "earth"?

2.c. What criteria makes the "ten" and/or "horns" = "earth"?

2.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "ten" and "horns", and your criteria.

Rev.13:1, "And he stood on the sand of the sea,", ie, signifying the location being the "the whole world."

The sum of his whole power of this "beast" carries the diadems on his 10 horns as though he operates with Christ's royal powers, to which powers, therefore, men should bow as to the superior authority - kind of similar to Rev.12:3.

Scripture and your own doctrine would suggest otherwise:

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads" -- (which apparently = "in heaven", per you own premise)

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns" -- (which apparently = "earth", per you own premise)

3. Please resolve your contradiction.

I hope you will provide your SEVEN / TEN "diadem" change in quantity, after completing your premise of the transition from the "seven heads" to the "ten horns".

With Best Regards,
DD

To All,

Please allow that prophecy is interwoven, and tangents converge toward the circumstances of the Tribulation, such as:

1. Is there a Tribulation?
2. What is the duration?
3. Who are the international participants?
4. Will the church be removed?
5. Will the church return?

As such, I hope my query as to the foundational aspects of Rev. 13 are constrained within the context of Rev. 12, per the above discussion.

With Best Regards,
DD

The increase is like the dragon, this beast arrogates to himself the sacred "7," the number of God's dealing with men.

Old of a lower paygrade Jack

DaDad · May 6, 2014

shturt678 said:
... I'm more of a signified vision viewer of symbolic composites rather than parsing out each figure. ...

Hi shturt678,

I would propose that if someone can't resolve the greater concepts, they can't resolve the specifics.

Rev. 12 SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

1.a . It is understood that the "location" is the "seven heads".

1.b. Is it the "seven" or the "heads" (or combination) which you suggest = "in heaven"?

1.c. What criteria makes the "seven" and/or "heads" = "in heaven"?

1.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "seven" and "heads", and your criteria.

Rev. 13 TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

2.a. It is understood that the "location" is the "ten horns".

2.b. Is it the "ten" or the "horns" (or combination) which you suggest = "earth"?

2.c. What criteria makes the "ten" and/or "horns" = "earth"?

2.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "ten" and "horns", and your criteria.

Secondly, it seems where you haven't answer the "locations", I suppose I shouldn't expect an answer to the quantities:

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

3. WHY did the locations and quantities change.

And finally if there anything which you can explain, please let me know.

With Best Regards,
DD

shturt678 · May 6, 2014

DaDad said:
Hi shturt678,

I would propose that if someone can't resolve the greater concepts, they can't resolve the specifics.

Rev. 12 SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

1.a . It is understood that the "location" is the "seven heads".

1.b. Is it the "seven" or the "heads" (or combination) which you suggest = "in heaven"?

1.c. What criteria makes the "seven" and/or "heads" = "in heaven"?

1.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "seven" and "heads", and your criteria.

Rev. 13 TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

2.a. It is understood that the "location" is the "ten horns".

2.b. Is it the "ten" or the "horns" (or combination) which you suggest = "earth"?

2.c. What criteria makes the "ten" and/or "horns" = "earth"?

2.d. In any case, please explain both the significance of the "ten" and "horns", and your criteria.

Secondly, it seems where you haven't answer the "locations", I suppose I shouldn't expect an answer to the quantities:

1. Rev. 12 has SEVEN diadems over the "seven heads"

2. Rev. 13 has TEN diadems over the "ten horns"

3. WHY did the locations and quantities change.

And finally if there anything which you can explain, please let me know.

With Best Regards,
DD

Click to expand...

Thank you for caring, and going the mile with me, ie, your patience!

I think you expected too much out of me, ie, I'm of a lower payrade. I think your questions are above my paygrade, however sincerely thank you anyway.

Old lower paygrade Jack

How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

How close are we to the seven year tribulation?

The seven year tribulation will happen within the next 10 years.

The seven year Tribulation could happen within the next 50 years but will probably not happen within

The seven year Tribulation has already started

The seven year Tribulation will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the next 50 years.

I don't believe in the seven year tribulation.

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