How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

Floyd · May 28, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Jack.

Sorry, bro', but the Kingdom of Christ, or the Kingdom of the Messiah, since Christ = Messiah, hasn't STARTED, YET! It won't start until the Messiah Himself has returned PHYSICALLY and BODILY!

Acts 1:6-12
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (the sky).
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

He will be reigning from Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) VERY LITERALLY, just as predicted!

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

You need your own paradigm shift! Come back to the truth of God's Word! Think on Yeshua`s parable:

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

Yeshua` will reign until all of His enemies are under His feet and the LAST enemy that is defeated is DEATH!

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Maranatha!
Floyd.

shturt678 · May 28, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Jack.

Sorry, bro', but the Kingdom of Christ, or the Kingdom of the Messiah, since Christ = Messiah, hasn't STARTED, YET! It won't start until the Messiah Himself has returned PHYSICALLY and BODILY!

Acts 1:6-12
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven (the sky) as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven (the sky)? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven (the sky), shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven (the sky).
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

He will be reigning from Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) VERY LITERALLY, just as predicted!

Click to expand...

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Thank you for your response![/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Acts1:6, 7 The fact that the Kingdom is, indeed, to be restored to Israel is taken for granted. The scepter had, indeed, sadly departed from Judah - would it now be restored in Shiloh, in Jesus? There is a difficulty to determine exactly what the apostles had in mind when they asked this question. i have to say that they thought of a glorious earthly rule for Israel, the Jewish people, through Jesus, the Messiah, who would soon return in His Parousia. Jesus answers only regarding the times and the seasons and does not explain about the Kingdom and how Israel (the remnant, Rom.9:27; 11:5) shall have the Kingdom restored. That fact that the apostles still expressed strong earthly conceptions by their question can scarcely be denied. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Acts1:8 This is spiritual power which is communicated directly by the God, the Holy Spirit in the Pentecostal miracles, a complete and an adequate equipment of mind of spirit, for the great future work. In a moment God the Son, Jesus will leave these men, but He leaves them with this great promise; in fact, His leaving is to make good that promise, for the ascension of Jesus was necessary in order to send the God, the Holy Spirit. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]The "Kingdom of Christ" has both an earthly side and heavenly. The earthly belong to contrition and faith, and regeneration, and many things of like nature. It's also where He rules with His grace and Gospel; Christ's heavenly Kingdom is where He rules in heavenly glory, ITim.4:18. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]The bottom line: Christ reigns now on earth with His grace and Gospel where those that have the Word in truth also reign with Him in a very limited way of course. [/SIZE]

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

You need your own paradigm shift! Come back to the truth of God's Word! Think on Yeshua`s parable:

Luke 19:11-28
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
KJV

Yeshua` will reign until all of His enemies are under His feet and the LAST enemy that is defeated is DEATH!

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Old Jack,

"Our Lord cometh" in the forthcoming "1" Parousia, ie, the end without any glorious Jewish Millennium.

Floyd · Jun 1, 2014

There is not a 7 year tribulation; but one of 3.5 years!
After which the Jewish race will be called to the "promised land" from all over the world; to its originally promised borders!
Floyd.

shturt678 · Jun 1, 2014

Floyd said:
There is not a 7 year tribulation; but one of 3.5 years!
After which the Jewish race will be called to the "promised land" from all over the world; to its originally promised borders!
Floyd.

Click to expand...

Thank you for caring!

3.5, that is, we agree to agree! The only thing is that the Jewish race was put on same level with the Gentiles waaay back there even before the destruction of the Jews as a nation in 70 A.D.

The irony is that the 3.5 began in 70 A.D. in light of Lk.21:24 construed with Rev.11:2, 3; 12:6; Dan.7:25; 12:7.

btw ends at the "1" future Parousia (Rev.20:9, 10).

Old Jack's end a little sooner

DaDad · Jun 1, 2014

Floyd said:
There is not a 7 year tribulation; but one of 3.5 years!
After which the Jewish race will be called to the "promised land" from all over the world; to its originally promised borders!
Floyd.

To All,

This is absolutely CORRECT, and where "Floyd" has already observed that 2018 is 70 years after the international recognition of the nation of Israel, one could "back out" the 3.5 years and arrive at a Spring* of 2015 start of the Tribulation.

* Please be aware that most opinions presume a Fall Feast return of Christ.

With Best Regards,
DD

Floyd · Jun 3, 2014

DaDad said:
To All,

This is absolutely CORRECT, and where "Floyd" has already observed that 2018 is 70 years after the international recognition of the nation of Israel, one could "back out" the 3.5 years and arrive at a Spring* of 2015 start of the Tribulation.

* Please be aware that most opinions presume a Fall Feast return of Christ.

With Best Regards,
DD

DD, I believe that coincides with the Jewish feast of Tabernacles.
Floyd.

DaDad · Jun 3, 2014

Hi Floyd,

Floyd said:
DD, I believe that coincides with the Jewish feast of Tabernacles.
Floyd.

I'm hoping you might provide YOUR thoughts, as I HAVEN'T A CLUE. I've never researched, nor am I particularly motivated, because I know the "season" and that's close enough for my purposes.

All I do know, is that whatever Feast is a candidate, it MUST be longer than one-day, otherwise we could know the "day".

With Best Regards,
DD

PS If you were interested in other concepts, please allow me to suggest that it appears Obama will not survive his term of office.

Floyd · Jun 3, 2014

Hi Floyd,

Floyd, on 03 Jun 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Floyd said:
DD, I believe that coincides with the Jewish feast of Tabernacles.
Floyd.

I'm hoping you might provide YOUR thoughts, as I HAVEN'T A CLUE. I've never researched, nor am I particularly motivated, because I know the "season" and that's close enough for my purposes.

According to Dr.Ginsberg/Bullinger; the "Feast of Tabernacles" is the 15th day of October (in our Calendar ); Jewish month 7; called Tisri, or Ethanim. In case it links in the future events, the "Feast of Trumpets", and "Day of Atonement" are on the 1st and 10th days respectively of the same month.

All I do know, is that whatever Feast is a candidate, it MUST be longer than one-day, otherwise we could know the "day".

With Best Regards,
DD

PS If you were interested in other concepts, please allow me to suggest that it appears Obama will not survive his term of office.

I have been puzzled by how he appeared from nowhere, and rose to power so quickly. I had assumed he had powerful "friends", and that they wanted to have a "hand in the glove".
All I have seen so far from him is a quick smile; but not much effect, (unless I'm missing something).
I have to wait for a few days for my copy of John Walvoord's book to arrive.
The write up on him is encouraging; especially as he used Dr. Bullinger's / Dr. Ginsburg's works in his studies.
I have been using them myself for 35 years, and they have changed our understanding from the mess of teaching over here, to better understand God's Word. We are most grateful to them; and especially as they were considered by the "mainstream" as "eccentric" , due to their criticism of the established churches of their day!

Regards,
Floyd.

DaDad · Jun 3, 2014

Hi Floyd,

Floyd said:
PS If you were interested in other concepts, please allow me to suggest that it appears Obama will not survive his term of office.

Click to expand...

I have been puzzled by how he appeared from nowhere, and rose to power so quickly. I had assumed he had powerful "friends", and that they wanted to have a "hand in the glove".
All I have seen so far from him is a quick smile; but not much effect, (unless I'm missing something).

I was attempting to suggest that maybe you could read the 19th Book of the Bible (Psalms, prophetic for the 1900's*), Chapter 109 (Chapter for year) = 2009, -- for Obama's Presidential Inauguration year, where it suggests ~let him be dead~ FIVE different ways; that his children "be cut off"; and that parents sins be remembered before the LORD.

As such, where one might have presumed that the worse personal (and MOST verbose) curse in ALL of Scripture might have been reserved for the a/c, it appears there is another one whom GOD holds in significant disdain.

* J.R. Church, "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms"

With Best Regards,
DD

Retrobyter · Jun 4, 2014

Shalom, gentlemen.

The "Feast of Tabernacles" (a poor choice of word) is called "Sukkot" in Judaism. Technically, "Cuwkowt," in my transliteration scheme, is basically a camping trip that happens in Jerusalem every year. Everyone in Isra'el is required to travel to Yerushalayim (Jerusalem) and set up a booth (sukkah is singular, sukkot is plural) in which they are to live for a week. This year, it will begin on October 8, 2014 at sundown with the sighting of the first three stars, and will last until nightfall on October 15, 2014.

During that time, one invites his friends and relatives over to his sukkah for a nash, a time of fellowship and snacks or a simple meal. It's just a week-long party with God and family and friends at the center!

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship (bend the knee to) the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe (stew their meat) therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 Finally, everyone remaining from all the nations that came to attack Yerushalayim will go up every year to worship the king, ADONAI-Tzva’ot, and to keep the festival of Sukkot. 17 If any of the families of the earth does not go up to Yerushalayim to worship the king, ADONAI-Tzva’ot, no rain will fall on them. 18 If the family of Egypt doesn’t go up, if they refuse to come, they will have no [annual] overflow [from the Nile]; moreover, there will be the plague with which ADONAI will strike the nations that don’t go up to keep the festival of Sukkot. 19 This will be Egypt’s punishment and the punishment of all the nations that don’t go up to keep the festival of Sukkot.

20 When that day comes, this will be written on the bells worn by the horses: “Consecrated to ADONAI”; and the cooking pots in the house of ADONAI will be [as holy] as the sprinkling bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every cooking pot in Yerushalayim and Y’hudah will be consecrated to ADONAI-Tzva’ot. Everyone who offers sacrifices will come, take them and use them to stew the meat. When that day comes, there will no longer be merchants in the house of ADONAI-Tzva’ot.
CJB

This is what will happen throughout the Millennium!

shturt678 · Jun 4, 2014

Thank you folks for caring!

It's important we understand that we're at the very bitter end of the "out of the tribulation, the great one" (Rev.7:14) thus we need "remain in" during this time for sure, ie, forever ramifications. Appears too many attempt to project this of out of touch with reality and us today.

Old Jack that really agapes the Pesach

Floyd · Jun 4, 2014

shturt678 said:
Thank you folks for caring!

It's important we understand that we're at the very bitter end of the "out of the tribulation, the great one" (Rev.7:14) thus we need "remain in" during this time for sure, ie, forever ramifications. Appears too many attempt to project this of out of touch with reality and us today.

Old Jack that really agapes the Pesach

Again Jack; I do not agree with you on this comment.
Floyd.

Retrobyter · Jun 4, 2014

Shalom, Jack.

shturt678 said:
Thank you folks for caring!

It's important we understand that we're at the very bitter end of the "out of the tribulation, the great one" (Rev.7:14) thus we need "remain in" during this time for sure, ie, forever ramifications. Appears too many attempt to project this of out of touch with reality and us today.

Old Jack that really agapes the Pesach

Revelation 7:14 IS about the "great tribulation," and you're right that we're already IN the great tribulation; HOWEVER, we are FAR from the "bitter end!" To the contrary, Yeshua` haMashiach WILL return physically, bodily and TOTALLY in charge! His rescue of His people is GUARANTEED! Unless, of course, if you don't BELIEVE God's promises through His prophecies! And, if you don't, then you are calling Him a LIAR!

Revelation 7:1-8:5
7:1 After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the land, on the sea or on any tree. 2 I saw another angel coming up from the east with a seal from the living God, and he shouted to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea, 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!” 4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:
5 From the tribe of Y’hudah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Re’uven 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naftali 12,000,
from the tribe of M’nasheh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Shim‘on 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Yissakhar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Z’vulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Yosef 12,000,
from the tribe of Binyamin 12,000.
9 After this, I looked; and there before me was a huge crowd, too large for anyone to count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. They were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes and holding palm branches in their hands; 10 and they shouted,
“Victory to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!”
11 All the angels stood around the throne, the elders and the four living beings; they fell face down before the throne and worshipped God, saying,
12 “Amen! (Truth!)
“Praise and glory, wisdom and thanks,
honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and ever!
“Amen!” (Truth!)

13 One of the elders asked me, “These people dressed in white robes — who are they, and where are they from?” 14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who have come out of the Great Persecution. They have washed their robes and made them white with the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before God’s throne.

“Day and night they serve him in his Temple;
and the One who sits on the throne
will put his Sh’khinah (Presence) upon them.
16 “They will never again be hungry,
they will never again be thirsty,
the sun will not beat down on them,
nor will any burning heat. (Isaiah 49:10)
17 “For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will shepherd them, will lead them
to springs of living water, (Isaiah 49:10; Jeremiah 2:13; Ezekiel 34:23; Psalm 23:1-2)
and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.” (Isaiah 25:8)
8:1 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for what seemed like half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven shofars. 3 Another angel came and stood at the altar with a gold incense-bowl, and he was given a large quantity of incense to add to the prayers of all God’s people 4 on the gold altar in front of the throne. The smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of God’s people from the hand of the angel before God. 5 Then the angel took the incense-bowl, filled it with fire from the altar and threw it down onto the earth; and there followed peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
CJB

So, to which tribe of Isra'el do YOU belong?

Now, regarding "agape," that's the noun form. You need a form of "agapao," meaning "I love." It's not that difficult to find a simple Greek grammar book.

And, what does Pesach (Passover) have to do with anything?!

John S · Jun 5, 2014

1. We are NOT in the Tribulation. That has NOT started yet - and won't until the antichrist arrives on the scene.
2. Americans and Canadians belong to one of the Tribes of Joseph.

Floyd · Jun 5, 2014

John S said:
1. We are NOT in the Tribulation. That has NOT started yet - and won't until the antichrist arrives on the scene.
2. Americans and Canadians belong to one of the Tribes of Joseph.

I agree with your 1) above; but 2)?
How do you arrive at that conclusion?
Floyd.

John S · Jun 5, 2014

Floyd said:
I agree with your 1) above; but 2)?
How do you arrive at that conclusion?
Floyd.

I am probably one of the few who takes Genesis 49 VERY seriously. Most people seem to take it as the incoherent ramblings of an old man. I consider them to be the accurate prophecies from God, who PROMISED Abraham that his seed would be as plentiful as the sand of the sea.
According to Jacob, Joseph and his sons, whom Jacob adopted, would receive tremendous blessings because they remained loyal to God while in Egypt. They would be powerful, rich nations, who would never be conquered. That fits Great Britain, and her "children" perfectly. That is why attempts to conquer Great Britain, Canada, Australia, etc., have all failed.
The same holds true for the U.S. God's promise to Abraham was the main reason why this country was founded and was able to gain its independence.
The Tribe of Judah would be the ONLY Tribe to maintain its identity. They are the Jewish people. That's why I say that the 144,000 members of the Elect will consist of 12,000 Jews and the rest will be Christians.
I believe that Zabulon, a seafaring people, is Spain, Portugal, and her "children" - Central and South America, etc.
Dan, whom Jacob scolds, will NOT have any members from that Tribe as part of the Elect because the antichrist will come from this Tribe. They will judge their people. The Roman Empire had a great judicial system that was copied by both Great Britain and the U.S. I believe Dan to be the present country of Italy. I am currently looking for a man from Italy to be the antichrist - and NOT the Pope, although he MIGHT be the false prophet.
Reuben, which never will be first, MIGHT be Ireland.

Virtually no one agrees with me - but that is O.K.

Floyd · Jun 5, 2014

John S said:
I am probably one of the few who takes Genesis 49 VERY seriously. Most people seem to take it as the incoherent ramblings of an old man. I consider them to be the accurate prophecies from God, who PROMISED Abraham that his seed would be as plentiful as the sand of the sea.
According to Jacob, Joseph and his sons, whom Jacob adopted, would receive tremendous blessings because they remained loyal to God while in Egypt. They would be powerful, rich nations, who would never be conquered. That fits Great Britain, and her "children" perfectly. That is why attempts to conquer Great Britain, Canada, Australia, etc., have all failed.
The same holds true for the U.S. God's promise to Abraham was the main reason why this country was founded and was able to gain its independence.
The Tribe of Judah would be the ONLY Tribe to maintain its identity. They are the Jewish people. That's why I say that the 144,000 members of the Elect will consist of 12,000 Jews and the rest will be Christians.
I believe that Zabulon, a seafaring people, is Spain, Portugal, and her "children" - Central and South America, etc.
Dan, whom Jacob scolds, will NOT have any members from that Tribe as part of the Elect because the antichrist will come from this Tribe. They will judge their people. The Roman Empire had a great judicial system that was copied by both Great Britain and the U.S. I believe Dan to be the present country of Italy. I am currently looking for a man from Italy to be the antichrist - and NOT the Pope, although he MIGHT be the false prophet.
Reuben, which never will be first, MIGHT be Ireland.

Virtually no one agrees with me - but that is O.K.

I agree with you till the end of line 3 above; the rest is speculation; which you are entitled to have.
However; I and others have other opinions.
Floyd.

shturt678 · Jun 5, 2014

Retrobyter said:
Shalom, Jack.

Revelation 7:14 IS about the "great tribulation," and you're right that we're already IN the great tribulation; HOWEVER, we are FAR from the "bitter end!" To the contrary, Yeshua` haMashiach WILL return physically, bodily and TOTALLY in charge! His rescue of His people is GUARANTEED! Unless, of course, if you don't BELIEVE God's promises through His prophecies! And, if you don't, then you are calling Him a LIAR!

Click to expand...

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Hey, at least we agree to agree that we're already in the "tribulation, the great one." The Godman Jesus will Return without ushering a Jewish Millennial as we're already towards the end of the "millennial" which began at the Cross. There will be no two, three, or four more Returns of Jesus whether spiritually or physically - "1" biggy Return! As prophesied.

Revelation 7:1-8:5

7:1 After this, I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the land, on the sea or on any tree. 2 I saw another angel coming up from the east with a seal from the living God, and he shouted to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea, 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!” 4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:
5 From the tribe of Y’hudah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Re’uven 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naftali 12,000,
from the tribe of M’nasheh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Shim‘on 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Yissakhar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Z’vulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Yosef 12,000,
from the tribe of Binyamin 12,000.
9 After this, I looked; and there before me was a huge crowd, too large for anyone to count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. They were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes and holding palm branches in their hands; 10 and they shouted,
“Victory to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!”
11 All the angels stood around the throne, the elders and the four living beings; they fell face down before the throne and worshipped God, saying,
12 “Amen! (Truth!)
“Praise and glory, wisdom and thanks,
honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and ever!
“Amen!” (Truth!)

13 One of the elders asked me, “These people dressed in white robes — who are they, and where are they from?” 14 “Sir,” I answered, “you know.” Then he told me, “These are the people who have come out of the Great Persecution. They have washed their robes and made them white with the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before God’s throne.

“Day and night they serve him in his Temple;
and the One who sits on the throne
will put his Sh’khinah (Presence) upon them.
16 “They will never again be hungry,
they will never again be thirsty,
the sun will not beat down on them,
nor will any burning heat. (Isaiah 49:10)
17 “For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will shepherd them, will lead them
to springs of living water, (Isaiah 49:10; Jeremiah 2:13; Ezekiel 34:23; Psalm 23:1-2)
and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.” (Isaiah 25:8)
8:1 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for what seemed like half an hour. 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and they were given seven shofars. 3 Another angel came and stood at the altar with a gold incense-bowl, and he was given a large quantity of incense to add to the prayers of all God’s people 4 on the gold altar in front of the throne. The smoke of the incense went up with the prayers of God’s people from the hand of the angel before God. 5 Then the angel took the incense-bowl, filled it with fire from the altar and threw it down onto the earth; and there followed peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
CJB

So, to which tribe of Isra'el do YOU belong?

Only a head's up. Long ago the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom (divided kingdoms - Israel & Judah) had been deported into Assyria then rejected by God and diappeared completely - absorbed by paganism. A remnant did come over to Judah. I realize you already know this thus my point: In 70 A.D. the remaining two tribes, Judah & Benjamin lost their national existence and never regained it.

Rev.7 Note also the tribe of Dan is omitted and Levi is listed as an ordinary tribe thus my next point: The 144,000 signifies (Rev.1:1) the whole completed Church (Kingdom of God) at the end of time that God foreordained before the beginning of time. I hope that you and I belong to this 'tribe."

Now, regarding "agape," that's the noun form. You need a form of "agapao," meaning "I love." It's not that difficult to find a simple Greek grammar book.

Hey, we agree to agree again grammatically with the simple contract verb "agape," where "agapw," "I love" is the grammar. However regarding agape's denotation contextually we'll agree to disagree of course.

And, what does Pesach (Passover) have to do with anything?!

I thought you were into those Jewish Feasts thus was sharing the "Feast" that I most enjoy scrutinizing, ie, the "Passover."
Old enjoying Jack

btw the litmus test as to how close to the end of the "tribulation" is to see how many world wide realize the preliminary judgments from heaven that are pouring out even at this moment in Revelation chapter 9 especially - symbolized of course - that simply expound IIThess.2:11, 12.

Floyd · Jun 5, 2014

As you know Jack; I don't agree that we are in the Tribulation (the Great); and I am surprised that Retro thinks we are.
That is yet to come; then the Millennial, with Christ Reigning on the Earth from Jerusalem; physically!
Regards Floyd.

shturt678 · Jun 5, 2014

Floyd said:
As you know Jack; I don't agree that we are in the Tribulation (the Great); and I am surprised that Retro thinks we are.
That is yet to come; then the Millennial, with Christ Reigning on the Earth from Jerusalem; physically!
Regards Floyd.

Click to expand...

Thank you for your response and caring again!

Have a great respect for you and your view,

Old sparring partner Jack

btw look at all the diverse statements of faith per each denom./non-denom. to extremely diverse, and you don't think there is some kind of spiritual battle going on big time - only "1" statement of faith is valid???

How close is the Seven Year Tribulation?

How close are we to the seven year tribulation?

The seven year tribulation will happen within the next 10 years.

The seven year Tribulation could happen within the next 50 years but will probably not happen within

The seven year Tribulation has already started

The seven year Tribulation will happen, but I don't think it will happen in the next 50 years.

I don't believe in the seven year tribulation.

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