DogLady19 said:
To be honest, I didn't know the Bible spoke of two tribulations... A little one, the a "Great" one... I thought the whole period was called a great tribulation, and it is called many other things in the Bible besides that. All I know is that the first 3.5 years has been fulfilled by Caligula and Nero. And the Bible verses that speak about birth pains describes the 2nd half of the "tribulation" exactly, and it is what we have been experiencing ever since.
TRIBULATION
The term "tribulation" in scripture points to the last 2,000 years.
These are birth pains.
The term "tribulation" simply describes the world getting worse and worse.
GREAT TRIBULATION
The term "great tribulation" in scripture points to God's wrath of 3.5 years in the end times.
This is God's wrath of trumpets and bowls.
The term "great tribulation" simply describes God's wrath being poured out on the earth in the end times, 3.5 years.
DogLady19 said:
As for Daniel 9:27, The temple was destroyed in 70 AD after Caesar, thinking himself god, and forcing people to worship him as god, put statues of himself in the Holy of Holies. desecrating it permanently...
I do believe Dan 9:27 ISV was fulfilled 2,000 years ago. We can clearly see here that it is the
spirit of the antichrist in people being fulfilled...
Dan 9:26 ESV And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the
people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
Dan 9:27 ISV He will make a binding covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he will suspend both the sacrifice and grain offerings.
Destructive people will cause desolation on the pinnacle until it is complete and what has been decreed is poured out on the desolator.'"
DogLady19 said:
I'm not sure how people can be so sure about the chronology of events, or the accurate interpretation of symbolism... Isn't that why we are discussing things? Is because we don't really know for sure?
We can know for sure..
1. Tribulation Birth Pains/Last 2,000 Years and leading up to Great Tribulation - Isa 13:6-8 NIV, Isa 26:16-18 NIV, Matt 24:4-8 NIV, Rom 8:22 NIV, 1 Thess 5:3 NIV, Rev 12:2 NIV
2. The Great Tribulation - Psalm 27:5 NIV, Jer 30:7 NIV, Dan 12:1 NIV, Zeph 1:15 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, Mark 13:19 NIV, Luke 21:23 NIV, Rev 3:10 NIV, Rev 7:14 NIV
3. The Great Tribulation lasting 3.5 Years - Dan 7:25 NIV, Dan 12:7 NIV, Rev 11:2-3 NIV, Rev 12:6 NIV, Rev 12:14 NIV, Rev 13:5 NIV
4. The Great Tribulation is God's wrath - Isa 13:9 NIV, Isa 13:13 NIV, Isa 26:20 NIV, Dan 8:19 NIV, Nahum 1:2-6 ESV, Zeph 1:15 NIV, Zeph 2:2 NIV, Zeph 3:8 NIV, Matt 3:7 NIV, Luke 21:23 NIV, Rom 1:18 ESV, Rom 2:5 NIV, Rom 2:8 NIV, Rom 3:5 NIV, Rom 4:15 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Rom 12:19-20 NIV, 1 Thess 1:10 ESV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 6:16-17 NIV, Rev 15:1 NIV, Rev 15:7 NIV, Rev 16:1 NIV, Rev 16:19 NIV, Rev 19:15 NIV
5. However, believers are not appointed to wrath in the Great Tribulation - Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV
Phoneman777 said:
Hi ATP, when Daniel says that "he shall confirm the Covenant with many for one week", please consider that:
- Jesus proclaimed at the Last Supper that the cup represented His "blood of the New Covenant" of grace which was to be "shed for many". (Matthew 26:28 KJV)
- In prophesying of His First Coming, Malachi in no uncertain terms referred to Jesus Christ - not Antichrist - as "the Messenger of the Covenant". (Malachi 3:1 KJV)
- Hebrews 2:3 KJV plainly says that Jesus "confirmed" to us the promise of salvation, in Person for 3 1/2 years and then through His disciples for another 3 1/2 years - a full week of confirmation of His Covenant to us.
- Paul plainly says that Jesus came to "confirm the promises" - the most important promise of all the promises being the New Covenant - made to the fathers (Romans 15:8 KJV)
- Job rhetorically asks the question of whether the devil (Leviathan) - who is invincible to all human efforts to control him or subdue him because of his kingly might and power over the whole earth - would ever need to "make a covenant with thee? The answer of course is "no". (Job 41:4 KJV)
So, although there exists at least two valid reasons for rejecting the Antichrist as the one who confirms the covenant:
- Antichrist/Spirit of Antichrist is nowhere mentioned in Daniel 9:25-27 KJV
- Antichrist/Spirit of Antichrist does not make covenants with humans
we see that Jesus Christ fits perfectly as He Who would "confirm the covenant with many for one week."
I'm not referring to the "He" in the beginning. Yes, the "He" in the beginning is Jesus. I agree. I said the "He" that is in bold, the latter half of the verse. I do believe this "He" that sets up the AOD is the (spirit) of the antichrist in people and has already been fulfilled 2,000 years ago. What do you think..
Dan 9:27 NIV He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.
And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."