!!!! Warning !!!!....What Many "Minsters" Don't Tell You!

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Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(E Nomine)
Neither. Only the grace of God.Jesus paved the way for our Salvation but God is who calls us. If He does not call then we won't know the Way.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Acts 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

daniel2macarius

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Jul 29, 2007
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The theif on the cross next to Jesus,was not baptized in water but he was baptized with the baptism of blood, he publicaly confessed his faith in Jesus as the Saviour,King and he defended Jesus Christ when all others deserted him save a few, he acknowledged he was a sinner and deserved his punishment and pointed out that Jesus was innocent of any sin,he was more interested in life after death them life there and them as he rebuked the other thief for asking Jesus to save them from death on the cross and for us believers today baptism is death with Jesus,i think only the repentant thief on that cross can literaly say he was crucified with christ,besides if the thief lived he would have followed the Apostles teaching and have been water baptized to wash away his sins.God Bless daniel2macarius
 

Christina

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If the thief had lived? has nothing to do with anything you have no way to know that it is conjecture. It is not water that washes away your sins.
 

Jordan

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If the thief had lived? has nothing to do with anything you have no way to know that it is conjecture. It is not water that washes away your sins.
Kriss's right, Water baptism never saves anyone, although water baptism is still good though cause it's like a public testimony to serve God. Only the true Water saves...that is of spoken in Ezekiel (Got to find that) and of Revelation. (Got to find that too) In short Yahshua saves.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
 

daniel2macarius

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(kriss;15450)
If the thief had lived? has nothing to do with anything you have no way to know that it is conjecture. It is not water that washes away your sins.
Firstly i would like to show this scripture;Baptism washes away sins “And now why are you waiting?Arise and be baptised, and wash away your sins” (Acts 22:16)and here are some more about baptism do you care to tell me what all these verses mean if they are not referring to water baptism, but be careful. The efficiency of baptism 1.Salvation is through baptism and Faith, not Faith alone. “He who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16)2.Through baptism we receive the second birth which is of water and the spirit.“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5)3.Baptism washes away sins “And now why are you waiting?Arise and be baptised, and wash away your sins” (Acts 22:16)4.In baptism there is forgiveness of sins.“Men and breathren, what shall we do?” Then Peter said to them “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:37,38)5.Baptism is dying with the Lord Jesus Christ and rising with Him.“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?” (Romans 6:3,4) “Now if we died with Christ, we believe we shall also live with Him” (Romans 6: 8)6.Another result of baptism is newness of life.“therefore we were buried with Him through baptism in to death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life” (Rom 6:4)7.In baptism we put on Christ. “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ” (Galatians 3;27)8.Baptism is becoming a member of the church and the church is the body of Christ.there is no salvation apart from the body of Christ. “I now rejoice in my suffering for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the affliction of Christ, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (colossians 1:24)This simple table shows just some of the teachings in the Holy Bible about baptism and from it we see that baptism is nessaccery for salvation if we study the book of Acts in the new testament we will see that on every occasion that salvation occurred the apostles baptized those that believed, which leads me to ask you to ask your self DO I BELIEVE IN ALL THE BIBLE OR JUST PARTS OF IT May the Lord Blessdaniel2macarius
 

Christina

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Yes baptism no one said differently but it is not by glorified tap water or a dip in the local creek or some minister saying words as he sprinkles your head. this is only an outward expression of your covenant with Christ it is only symbolic.Important but symbolic. There is only one source of living water and it wont be found in a baptismal pool at some church Its in your Heart. It is by spirit by the living water of Jesus Christ.That we are Baptised with your repentance of sin your Belief that we are saved through the Grace of God by Jesus Christ shedding his blood on the cross. This is what baptises us not a dip in the tap water. You make a large error if you think because some man sprinkled your head as a baby you are saved. Do not be an empty or broken cistern.Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, [and] they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
 

daniel2macarius

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Jul 29, 2007
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(Joyful;16510)
Daniel,Is your denomination Church of Christ?
No joyful i am a Coptic Orthodox Christian, the Coptic Church was founded by St. Mark the writer of the second gospel in the year 64AD and has taught the same as did the Apostles from that time until today.What about yourself,from what denomination do you hail.God Blessd2m
 

daniel2macarius

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kriss;16496]Yes baptism no one said differently but it is not by glorified tap water or a dip in the local creek or some minister saying words as he sprinkles your head. this is only an outward expression of your covenant with Christ it is only symbolic.Important but symbolic. There is only one source of living water and it wont be found in a baptismal pool at some church Its in your Heart. [b]It is by spirit by the living water of Jesus Christ.That we are Baptised with your repentance of sin your Belief that we are saved through the Grace of God by Jesus Christ shedding his blood on the cross.[/b] This is what baptises us not a dip in the tap water. You make a large error if you think because some man sprinkled your head as a baby you are saved. Do not be an empty or broken cistern.[/QUOTE][/i][b]Firstly the priests would never use normal Tap water to baptize and baptism is not a sprinkeling it is full emersion said:
Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
if you read the prior vesres you would have seen that God is rebuking Isreal for turning to other gods,now this sommething i would never do as i am a devout follower of Jesus Christ, so this scripture you have used out of context.
Jer 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, [and] they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.
Yes indeed Jesus is the LIving water as is the Holy Spirit, but this does not disprove baptism.And i have by no means forsaken Jesus.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Yes God will lead them to Baptism where they will recieve the remission of sins.God Blessd2m
 

Joyful

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Jan 7, 2007
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(daniel2macarius;16527)
No joyful i am a Coptic Orthodox Christian, the Coptic Church was founded by St. Mark the writer of the second gospel in the year 64AD and has taught the same as did the Apostles from that time until today.What about yourself,from what denomination do you hail.God Blessd2m
I don't hail to to any organized churches.thank you for your reply:)love, hitomi
 

MickinEngland

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Dec 15, 2006
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In the late 1990's I was sitting on a bench in Leicester Town Hall square (England) with many other passersby watching a Baptist religious meeting taking place in the square involving singing and preaching etc. Many of the baptists were mingling with the crowd in friendly chat and discussion,and several latched on to me,but it seemed the only question they were obsessed with was "Have you been baptised?" I politely explained to them over and over that I hadn't been baptised because I have no need for it,and whenever they opened their Bibles to point out verses that they believed say its essential,I pointed out verses in return that show baptism isn't at all necessary. In the end,one of them went over and got their main minister to come over and give a ruling. I'll never forget him,he was tall,elegant,well-dressed,relaxed and smiling,and with the light of Christ burning in his eyes. "What's the matter?" he asked in a quiet,friendly soft voice,to which I replied:- "I love Jesus and I believe he's the Son of God,but I haven't been baptised,so will I be going to Hell?" Back came the smiling answer in that same soft voice without any fuss:- "No,you won't. Anything else?" I said no,nothing else,thanked him for his answer,we shook hands and he moved off still smiling,a man for whom I'll always have the greatest respect and admiration.
 

Christina

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daniel2macarius;16528][i][QUOTE][/i][b]Firstly the priests would never use normal Tap water to baptize and baptism is not a sprinkeling it is full emersion said:
if you read the prior vesres you would have seen that God is rebuking Isreal for turning to other gods,now this sommething i would never do as i am a devout follower of Jesus Christ, so this scripture you have used out of context.Yes indeed Jesus is the LIving water as is the Holy Spirit, but this does not disprove baptism.And i have by no means forsaken Jesus. Yes God will lead them to Baptism where they will recieve the remission of sins.God Blessd2m
While many would preach that all people are commanded to repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38), adding any other requirement to salvation by grace becomes "works" in disguise. Even though numerous Scriptures speak of the importance of water baptism, adding anything to the work of the cross demeans the sacrifice of the Savior. It implies that His finished work wasn't enough. But the Bible makes clear that we are saved by grace, and grace alone,For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.—Ephesians 2:8-9Water Baptism is simply a step of obedience to the Lord following our repentance and confession of sin. Our obedience--water baptism, prayer, good works, fellowship, witnessing, etc.--issues from our faith in Christ. Salvation is not what we do, but Who we have.He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life.—1 John 5:12Upon acceptance of Christ, by grace ,through faith we are baptisted of the spirit
 

E Nomine

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But, as Chrisitans, we are to emulate Christ and the first step to emulation is water baptisim.
 

jodycour

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(E Nomine;16723)
But, as Chrisitans, we are to emulate Christ and the first step to emulation is water baptisim.
Yes it is a great first step after the inward work has already been done in your heart, which is believing what Jesus did on the cross!
 

daniel2macarius

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Dear Joyful, This subject of baptism is one of much contention today, weather or not it is required for salvation is the actual point of contention, and to discover what the truth about this is we should all go to firstly the Holy Bible, Now as we both know there are verses in scripture that seem to teach that baptism is nessaccery and there are verses that seem to teach it is not, this is a seeming contridiction in the word of God, but as we both know God does not and cannot contridict Himself, so the problem remains with us not Gods word.Most when trying to defend baptism or not, use single verses and sometimes take this verse out of context and this is a mistake, what we must di is read the scriptures and find every account of salvation and also every scripture speaking of salvation and after we have all the scriptures relevent to salvation we put them all together and we will see the Whole Picture, we will see what the scriptures teach as a whole. We know the scriptures teach Faith, but the same Bible also teaches Baptism, good works ,and Sacraments and all these are needed for salvation.Lets look at just one example.On the day of pentocost when the Holy Spirit come all those in the upper room where of one mind and one accord and they all where taught by Jesus and or His Apostles, the Holy Spirit come upon them and they spoke in different languages, the people out side hearing these diciples speaking in there own language where amazed and shortly after this St. Peter began to teach them, some where cut to the heart( Faith) and asked what should we do to recieve life,Now if faith alone was sufficiant St. Peter would have said if you believe in Jesus you are already saved, but he didn't say this what he did say being inspired by the Holy Spirit was;2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.( Acts 2:38)Now as i have said earilier one verse is not the best way to prove a point and is certainly not enough to base doctrine of but in this example i will use this scripture only as it is easily enough to produce others that teach baptism and i am sure we are all familiar with them.What we notice is St. Peter teaching Baptism is needed for the remission of sins, you cannot now put beside this scripture another scripture that says faith alone, for if you do then you are making Gods word Contridict itself, thus falling in to great error, besides baptism being taught is needed for salvation in scripture it was also taught by all of christianity, that is every church and church leader from the first century up until this day, below is some example of this; The Letter of Barnabas"Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead [Ps. 1:3–6]. Observe there how he describes both the water and the cross in the same figure. His meaning is, ‘Blessed are those who go down into the water with their hopes set on the cross.’ Here he is saying that after we have stepped down into the water, burdened with sin and defilement, we come up out of it bearing fruit, with reverence in our hearts and the hope of Jesus in our souls" (Letter of Barnabas 11:1–10 [A.D. 74]). Hermas"‘I have heard, sir,’ said I, ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’" (The Shepherd 4:3:1–2 [A.D. 80]). Ignatius of Antioch"Let none of you turn deserter. Let your baptism be your armor; your faith, your helmet; your love, your spear; your patient endurance, your panoply" (Letter to Polycarp 6 [A.D. 110]). Second Clement"For, if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; but if otherwise, then nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we should disobey his commandments. . . . [W]ith what confidence shall we, if we keep not our baptism pure and undefiled, enter into the kingdom of God? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we be found having holy and righteous works?’ (Second Clement 6:7–9 [A.D. 150]). Justin Martyr"Whoever are convinced and believe that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water, and they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: ‘In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit,’ they receive the washing of water. For Christ said, ‘Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven’" (First Apology 61:14–17 [A.D. 151]). Theophilus of Antioch"Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration—all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God" (To Autolycus 12:16 [A.D. 181]). Clement of Alexandria"When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal . . . ‘and sons of the Most High’ [Ps. 82:6]. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins, a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted, an illumination by which we behold that holy light of salvation" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:26:1 [A.D. 191]). Tertullian"Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!" (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]). "Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins" (ibid., 7:2). Hippolytus"And the bishop shall lay his hand upon them [the newly baptized], invoking and saying: ‘O Lord God, who did count these worthy of deserving the forgiveness of sins by the laver of regeneration, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit and send upon them thy grace [in confirmation], that they may serve you according to your will" (The Apostolic Tradition 22:1 [A.D. 215]). Cyprian of Carthage"While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man" (To Donatus 3–4 [A.D. 246]). Aphraahat the Persian Sage"From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . n the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit" (Treatises 6:14:4 [A.D. 340]). Cyril of Jerusalem"If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness" (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 [A.D. 350]). Basil the Great"For prisoners, baptism is ransom, forgiveness of debts, the death of sin, regeneration of the soul, a resplendent garment, an unbreakable seal, a chariot to heaven, a royal protector, a gift of adoption" (Sermons on Moral and Practical Subjects 13:5 [A.D. 379]). Council of Constantinople I"We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins" (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]). Ambrose of Milan"The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism. Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins" (Commentary on Luke 2:83 [A.D. 389]). Augustine"It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture too" (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]). "The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration" (ibid., 2:27:43). "Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted" (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]). "This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]). These quotes are from church fathers from all over the world both in the west and in the east, and many are from before the church was divided, Baptism has been taught from The Apostles and is still taught in Apostloic churches today which are the Body of Christ.God BlessD2M
 

crooner

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Aug 11, 2007
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Jesus name represents Father,Son, and Holy Spirit. His name covers all. This an old belief from a group of 1st Assembly of God believers that were booted out lon ago. They are as hung up on that as &th day advents are on sabbath.
 

whirlwind

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(arenamistica;11017)
***1 John 5:6-8: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Being born of water means to be born of woman....from the bag of waters. In other words, we must be born in the flesh and not come to earth as the fallen angels that refused that passage. Christ Himself was born of woman (of water) and was crucified (of blood).In the scriptures quoted above..."in heaven" and "in earth" were added and are not in the manuscripts.
Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
I believe in baptism and as He was baptised Himself....it is a lesson for us. However, I don't see not being baptised as damnation. The key word in the Mk.16:16 scripture is believeth. We must believe to be saved. :angel9:........Whirlwind
 
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What's more important the baptism of water, or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost? If you say the water baptism, somethings wrong with you. NO offense and God Bless
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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*Raises hand*Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
smile.gif
At the same time, I wouldn't mind doing the water baptism, because YAHshua did it. I would do it as an act of obedience, not to add that WORK on top of Christ unto salvation. If you do, it's so wrong.JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Jonous

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Nov 17, 2007
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"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" Math.28:19"And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:14Now why does Ananias think it's imperative that Paul is baptized, I wonder. Hmmm...