New Views on the Rapture
- Thread starter lioncubseal
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
This is unquestionably true:
"And at the end of this parable Jesus said...
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:13
Indicating that we are suppose to be ready for the Lords coming at any day and at any hour."
Amen and Amen.
"And at the end of this parable Jesus said...
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:13
Indicating that we are suppose to be ready for the Lords coming at any day and at any hour."
Amen and Amen.
It means for us to be ready and watching indeed, but not to create all sorts of traditions of men that go directly against prophetic Scripture our Lord gave us so as to know just what... to be watching leading up to His return.
This statement could be misconstrued as a supporting statement for the pre-trib rapture. However, we all know that His Appearing at the time of the Rapture, will not take place until AFTER the AC sits upon the throne of God, in the temple of God, shewing himself to be God. Therefore, until that happens, his appearing IS NOT IMMINENT!
Hello Popeye,
That's a pretty confident statement, but how do you know that the AC isn't already sitting upon the temporal thone of God and just hasn't been revealed? There may be another literal temple built in fulfillment of prophecy, but there's a spiritual one in existence now. Jesus is the head of the church, but men are always trying to sit in His seat. The son of perdition that Jesus identified in the gospels was one of the twelve and an apostle himself. Some see the temple as a pyramid, but if it were of that shape, it would have to be upside down. Jesus' heirachy is the least in the kingdom shall be the greatest, but then, I don't see the temple as a pyramid of any shape or form, but just a house that God built for fellowship with His saints. Even the elders cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, and there will be no cause for pride in the courts of the Lord. If Jesus said to watch and to wait,and that He is coming like a thief in the night, how can you possibly assert that His return is not imminent? I'm not God, are you?
That's a pretty confident statement, but how do you know that the AC isn't already sitting upon the temporal thone of God and just hasn't been revealed? There may be another literal temple built in fulfillment of prophecy, but there's a spiritual one in existence now. Jesus is the head of the church, but men are always trying to sit in His seat. The son of perdition that Jesus identified in the gospels was one of the twelve and an apostle himself. Some see the temple as a pyramid, but if it were of that shape, it would have to be upside down. Jesus' heirachy is the least in the kingdom shall be the greatest, but then, I don't see the temple as a pyramid of any shape or form, but just a house that God built for fellowship with His saints. Even the elders cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, and there will be no cause for pride in the courts of the Lord. If Jesus said to watch and to wait,and that He is coming like a thief in the night, how can you possibly assert that His return is not imminent? I'm not God, are you?
Hey Michael! Glad you asked the question, and/or questioned my assertion....
I am not a metaphoric interpreter of everything prophetic. This scripture is a literal interpretation, and always has been. The following is the reason why ( Please bear with me ):
It is estimated that one-quarter of the estimated ten billion Christians who have lived a life on earth, are currently living in this end times generation. That translates to over 2 billion people, spread out over nearly two-thirds of the nations of the earth. Of those, it is guesstimated that one-third have some understanding of end times prophecy. And of those, an estimated one-third believes they will escape a coming great tribulation by rapture. That is at least 200 million Christians, worldwide, who have been misled by blind leaders errantly teaching their followers, “what their itching ears want to hear”. In my humble opinion, the pre-trib rapture belief is the greatest lie ever propagated, and sanctioned, by this latter-day end times Church. Therefore, it is absolutely paramount that we understand The Truth concerning the timing of The Rapture. The salvation, redemption, hopes and dreams of untold millions of souls, including non-Christian peoples the world over, all hinge on our proper interpretation of this dispensation.
Follow with me then, as I present to you 12 reasons why the Pre-Trib Rapture belief is in error. ( Note to Readers: In regards to the importance of the 12[sup]th[/sup] and final point, I quote the words of Christ, when I say, “The last shall be the first, and the first, the last”. )
I am not a metaphoric interpreter of everything prophetic. This scripture is a literal interpretation, and always has been. The following is the reason why ( Please bear with me ):
It is estimated that one-quarter of the estimated ten billion Christians who have lived a life on earth, are currently living in this end times generation. That translates to over 2 billion people, spread out over nearly two-thirds of the nations of the earth. Of those, it is guesstimated that one-third have some understanding of end times prophecy. And of those, an estimated one-third believes they will escape a coming great tribulation by rapture. That is at least 200 million Christians, worldwide, who have been misled by blind leaders errantly teaching their followers, “what their itching ears want to hear”. In my humble opinion, the pre-trib rapture belief is the greatest lie ever propagated, and sanctioned, by this latter-day end times Church. Therefore, it is absolutely paramount that we understand The Truth concerning the timing of The Rapture. The salvation, redemption, hopes and dreams of untold millions of souls, including non-Christian peoples the world over, all hinge on our proper interpretation of this dispensation.
Follow with me then, as I present to you 12 reasons why the Pre-Trib Rapture belief is in error. ( Note to Readers: In regards to the importance of the 12[sup]th[/sup] and final point, I quote the words of Christ, when I say, “The last shall be the first, and the first, the last”. )
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, friends.
I would not be so careless as to suggest that any brother is lying and/or being deceived by believing in a pretribulational rapture. I have known many, many individuals who were staunch believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, having been "born again," and were well-established in their faith, both in the substitutiary death of Christ and in His premillennial Return, the Second Coming.
There ARE reasons (and Scriptures to go with them) for believing in a pretribulational rapture. According to J. Dwight Pentecost in his book Things To Come, summarized from the table of contents on pp. xviii-xix and from pp. 193-218, the essential arguments of the pretribulation rapturist are...
1) The literal method of interpretation - he claimed that posttribber must either interpret Revelation historically using a spiritualizing method, or interpret it futuristically but spiritualize away the literalness of the events; he also claimed the midtribber (including the pre-Wrather) applies the literal method of interpretation to the last half of the seventieth week, but spiritualizes the events of the first half of the week to permit the church to encounter those,
2) The nature of the seventieth week - a time of a) wrath in Rev. 6:16-17; 11:18; 14:19; 15:1, 7; 16:1, 19; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9; Zeph. 1:15, 18, of B) judgment (Rev. 14:7; 15:4; 16:5-7; 19:2, of c) indignation in Isa. 26:20-21; 34:1-3, of d) punishment in Isa. 24:20-21, of e) an hour of trial in Rev. 3:10, of f) an hour of trouble in Jer. 30:7, of g) destruction in Joel 1:15, and of h) darkness in Joel 2:2; Zeph. 1:14-18; Amos 5:18,
3) The scope of the seventieth week - poured upon the whole earth in Rev. 3:10; Isa. 34:2; 24:1, 4-5, 16-17, 18-21, et al. but also particularly in relation to Israel in Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:24,
4) The purpose of the seventieth week - two purposes to be accomplished: a) to keep thee from the hour of temptation in Rev 3:10 and B) to prepare the people for the King who was shortly to come in Luke 1:17; Mark 9:12-13; Matt. 11:14,
5) The unity of the seventieth week - despite the two halves described in Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Rev. 13, the nature and the character of the week is one; they cannot be separated,
6) The nature of the church - there's a distinction between the true church and a) Israel, B) the professing church, and c) the true or spiritual Israel; the true church has Christ as its Head in Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18, is the bride of Christ in 1 Cor. 11:2; Eph 5:23, is the object of His love in Eph 5:25, is the branch of which He is the Root and Stem in John 15:5, and is the building of which He is the Foundation and the Cornerstone in 1 Cor. 3:9; Eph. 2:19-22; therefore, there exists between the believer and the Lord a union and a unity that is not experienced by the other three,
7) The concept of the church as a mystery - the fact that God was going to form Jews and Gentiles alike into one body was never revealed in the OT and forms the mystery found in Eph. 3:1-7; Rom. 16:25-27; Col. 1:26-29,
8) The distinctions between Israel and the church - he makes 24 contrasts between the two with as many passages of Scripture implied,
9) The doctrine of imminence - many signs were given to national Israel that would precede the second advent, but no such signs were given to the church; the church was told to live in the light of the imminent coming of the Lord to translate them in His presence in John 14:2-3; Acts 1:11; 1 Cor. 15:51-52; Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Tim. 6:14; Jas. 5:8; and 1 Pet. 3:3-4,
10) The work of the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2 - verse 1 cf. Rev. 13 says it must happen before the Day of the Lord, verses 7-8 say the lawless one cannot be manifested until the Restrainer is taken out of the way, and Dan. 9:27 says the lawless one will be manifested at the beginning of the week,
11) The necessity of an interval - three things must happen in between these events: a) the judgment seat of Christ in 2 Cor. 5:9; 1 Cor. 3:11-16; Rev. 4:4; 19:8, 14, B) the presentation of the church to Christ in Eph. 5:25-27 and Jude 24, and c) the marriage of the Lamb in Rev. 19:7-9; Matt. 25:1-13; 22:1-14; and Luke 12:35-41,
12) Distinctions between the rapture and the second advent - he points out 17 distinctions with verses implied or stated for each distinction,
13) The twenty-four elders - Rev. 4:4 and he draws from Scofield's five reasons why these must be representative of the church and Israel is not judged or rewarded until the Second Coming in Isa. 26:19-21 and Dan. 12:1-2,
14) The problem behind 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - the Thessalonians would have been happy that some of their number would miss the events of the seventieth week,
15) The announcement of peace and safety will come before the Day of the Lord in 1 Thess. 5:3,
16) The relation of the church to governments - the church is to pray for governments in 1 Tim. 2:1-4 and be in subjection to such powers in 1 Pet. 2:13-16; Titus 3:1; and Rom. 13:1-7 but the government during the seventieth week would be controlled by Satan in Rev. 13:4,
17) The silence concerning the tribulation in the epistles - this is an argument from silence, but his argument is that they were warned of other impending persecutions in John 15:18-25; 16:1-4; 1 Pet. 2:19-25; 4:12; James 1:2-4; 5:10-11; 1 Thess. 1:4-10; 2 Tim. 3:10-14; 4:5; so why not this future persecution?
18) The message of the two witnesses - Rev. 11:3 compared to the messages of others,
19) The destiny of the church - a heavenly destiny while the destiny of those saved in the seventieth week is earthly,
20) The message to Laodicea - Rev. 3:14-22 which is supposed to be the "final form of the professing church, which is rejected by the Lord and vomited out of His mouth,"
21) The times of the Gentiles - at the second advent in Luke 21:24; Zech. 12:2; 14:2-3; Rev. 19:17-19; compared to Rev. 11:2,
22) The waiting remnant at the second advent - Mal. 3:15; Ezek. 20:33-38; 37:11-28; Zech. 13:8-9; Rev. 7:1-8 et al. compared to Matt. 25:31-40; Matt. 22:1-13; Luke 14:16-24,
23) The sealed 144,000 from Israel - while the church is on earth, the saved are saved to a position in the body of Christ in Col. 1:26-29; 3:11; Eph. 2:14-22; 3:1-7 but during the seventieth week the church must be absent for out of the saved remnant in Israel, God seals 144,000 Jews in Rev. 7:14,
24) The chronology of the book of Revelation - ch. 1-3 = the church in the present age; ch. 4-11 = the events of the seventieth week concluding with the return of Christ; ch. 12-19 = the seventieth week a second time, focusing on the actors on the stage of the drama,
25) The great object of satanic attack - the woman who represents Israel, not the church in Rev. 12,
26) The apostasy of the period - the only organized church ever mentioned in the trib is the Jezebel system in Rev. 2:22 and the harlot system in Rev. 17-18,
27) The promises to the true church - a) "I will keep thee from the hour of temptation" in Rev. 3:10, B) "God hath not appointed us to wrath" in 1 Thess. 5:9, and c) our expectation is not wrath but the revelation of "his son from heaven" in 1 Thess. 1:9-10, and
28) The agreement of typology - Noah, Rahab, and Lot in 2 Pet. 2:6-9 cf. Gen. 19:22.
Mind you, I've been through all these, and I now have counter-arguments based on a Messianic Jew's point of view with different definitions to many words; therefore, I no longer believe in the pretribulational rapturist's point of view. HOWEVER, never let it be said that there is no Scriptural basis for the pretribulational rapturist's point of view.
I would not be so careless as to suggest that any brother is lying and/or being deceived by believing in a pretribulational rapture. I have known many, many individuals who were staunch believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, having been "born again," and were well-established in their faith, both in the substitutiary death of Christ and in His premillennial Return, the Second Coming.
There ARE reasons (and Scriptures to go with them) for believing in a pretribulational rapture. According to J. Dwight Pentecost in his book Things To Come, summarized from the table of contents on pp. xviii-xix and from pp. 193-218, the essential arguments of the pretribulation rapturist are...
1) The literal method of interpretation - he claimed that posttribber must either interpret Revelation historically using a spiritualizing method, or interpret it futuristically but spiritualize away the literalness of the events; he also claimed the midtribber (including the pre-Wrather) applies the literal method of interpretation to the last half of the seventieth week, but spiritualizes the events of the first half of the week to permit the church to encounter those,
2) The nature of the seventieth week - a time of a) wrath in Rev. 6:16-17; 11:18; 14:19; 15:1, 7; 16:1, 19; 1 Thess. 1:9-10; 5:9; Zeph. 1:15, 18, of B) judgment (Rev. 14:7; 15:4; 16:5-7; 19:2, of c) indignation in Isa. 26:20-21; 34:1-3, of d) punishment in Isa. 24:20-21, of e) an hour of trial in Rev. 3:10, of f) an hour of trouble in Jer. 30:7, of g) destruction in Joel 1:15, and of h) darkness in Joel 2:2; Zeph. 1:14-18; Amos 5:18,
3) The scope of the seventieth week - poured upon the whole earth in Rev. 3:10; Isa. 34:2; 24:1, 4-5, 16-17, 18-21, et al. but also particularly in relation to Israel in Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:24,
4) The purpose of the seventieth week - two purposes to be accomplished: a) to keep thee from the hour of temptation in Rev 3:10 and B) to prepare the people for the King who was shortly to come in Luke 1:17; Mark 9:12-13; Matt. 11:14,
5) The unity of the seventieth week - despite the two halves described in Dan. 9:27; Matt. 24:15; Rev. 13, the nature and the character of the week is one; they cannot be separated,
6) The nature of the church - there's a distinction between the true church and a) Israel, B) the professing church, and c) the true or spiritual Israel; the true church has Christ as its Head in Eph. 1:22; 5:23; Col. 1:18, is the bride of Christ in 1 Cor. 11:2; Eph 5:23, is the object of His love in Eph 5:25, is the branch of which He is the Root and Stem in John 15:5, and is the building of which He is the Foundation and the Cornerstone in 1 Cor. 3:9; Eph. 2:19-22; therefore, there exists between the believer and the Lord a union and a unity that is not experienced by the other three,
7) The concept of the church as a mystery - the fact that God was going to form Jews and Gentiles alike into one body was never revealed in the OT and forms the mystery found in Eph. 3:1-7; Rom. 16:25-27; Col. 1:26-29,
8) The distinctions between Israel and the church - he makes 24 contrasts between the two with as many passages of Scripture implied,
9) The doctrine of imminence - many signs were given to national Israel that would precede the second advent, but no such signs were given to the church; the church was told to live in the light of the imminent coming of the Lord to translate them in His presence in John 14:2-3; Acts 1:11; 1 Cor. 15:51-52; Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Tim. 6:14; Jas. 5:8; and 1 Pet. 3:3-4,
10) The work of the Restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2 - verse 1 cf. Rev. 13 says it must happen before the Day of the Lord, verses 7-8 say the lawless one cannot be manifested until the Restrainer is taken out of the way, and Dan. 9:27 says the lawless one will be manifested at the beginning of the week,
11) The necessity of an interval - three things must happen in between these events: a) the judgment seat of Christ in 2 Cor. 5:9; 1 Cor. 3:11-16; Rev. 4:4; 19:8, 14, B) the presentation of the church to Christ in Eph. 5:25-27 and Jude 24, and c) the marriage of the Lamb in Rev. 19:7-9; Matt. 25:1-13; 22:1-14; and Luke 12:35-41,
12) Distinctions between the rapture and the second advent - he points out 17 distinctions with verses implied or stated for each distinction,
13) The twenty-four elders - Rev. 4:4 and he draws from Scofield's five reasons why these must be representative of the church and Israel is not judged or rewarded until the Second Coming in Isa. 26:19-21 and Dan. 12:1-2,
14) The problem behind 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - the Thessalonians would have been happy that some of their number would miss the events of the seventieth week,
15) The announcement of peace and safety will come before the Day of the Lord in 1 Thess. 5:3,
16) The relation of the church to governments - the church is to pray for governments in 1 Tim. 2:1-4 and be in subjection to such powers in 1 Pet. 2:13-16; Titus 3:1; and Rom. 13:1-7 but the government during the seventieth week would be controlled by Satan in Rev. 13:4,
17) The silence concerning the tribulation in the epistles - this is an argument from silence, but his argument is that they were warned of other impending persecutions in John 15:18-25; 16:1-4; 1 Pet. 2:19-25; 4:12; James 1:2-4; 5:10-11; 1 Thess. 1:4-10; 2 Tim. 3:10-14; 4:5; so why not this future persecution?
18) The message of the two witnesses - Rev. 11:3 compared to the messages of others,
19) The destiny of the church - a heavenly destiny while the destiny of those saved in the seventieth week is earthly,
20) The message to Laodicea - Rev. 3:14-22 which is supposed to be the "final form of the professing church, which is rejected by the Lord and vomited out of His mouth,"
21) The times of the Gentiles - at the second advent in Luke 21:24; Zech. 12:2; 14:2-3; Rev. 19:17-19; compared to Rev. 11:2,
22) The waiting remnant at the second advent - Mal. 3:15; Ezek. 20:33-38; 37:11-28; Zech. 13:8-9; Rev. 7:1-8 et al. compared to Matt. 25:31-40; Matt. 22:1-13; Luke 14:16-24,
23) The sealed 144,000 from Israel - while the church is on earth, the saved are saved to a position in the body of Christ in Col. 1:26-29; 3:11; Eph. 2:14-22; 3:1-7 but during the seventieth week the church must be absent for out of the saved remnant in Israel, God seals 144,000 Jews in Rev. 7:14,
24) The chronology of the book of Revelation - ch. 1-3 = the church in the present age; ch. 4-11 = the events of the seventieth week concluding with the return of Christ; ch. 12-19 = the seventieth week a second time, focusing on the actors on the stage of the drama,
25) The great object of satanic attack - the woman who represents Israel, not the church in Rev. 12,
26) The apostasy of the period - the only organized church ever mentioned in the trib is the Jezebel system in Rev. 2:22 and the harlot system in Rev. 17-18,
27) The promises to the true church - a) "I will keep thee from the hour of temptation" in Rev. 3:10, B) "God hath not appointed us to wrath" in 1 Thess. 5:9, and c) our expectation is not wrath but the revelation of "his son from heaven" in 1 Thess. 1:9-10, and
28) The agreement of typology - Noah, Rahab, and Lot in 2 Pet. 2:6-9 cf. Gen. 19:22.
Mind you, I've been through all these, and I now have counter-arguments based on a Messianic Jew's point of view with different definitions to many words; therefore, I no longer believe in the pretribulational rapturist's point of view. HOWEVER, never let it be said that there is no Scriptural basis for the pretribulational rapturist's point of view.
Those, including myself, who make the claim that the pretribulation rapture doctrine lacks scriptural basis, say this because while scripture may be used to defend it, scripture itself doesn't teach it.
On the surface, it doesn't seem like a major, but from that author's extensive "research", you can see how this one belief can influence a host of others.
On the surface, it doesn't seem like a major, but from that author's extensive "research", you can see how this one belief can influence a host of others.
Why do I support rapture? Well consider the elderly, the sick, the youthful, those im-prisoned, those in a coma, Those receiving government assistance, and I am pretty sure there are more. Most of These people will not be afforded the abilityto de-nounce acceptance of the Beast's Mark no matter how devote a Christain they were before entering thier position. These reasons validate the need for a Rapture. How could God alllow a person in a coma, unable to deny the Beast's Mark, a trip to hell because they were not given the chance to deny the Mark of the Beast?
Consider those who go thrugh the Trbulations as those that rule when Christ puts his place on earth to rule. Consider that those taken in the Rapture are ruled over by those who were victorious through Tribulation. Consider that God allowed his deciples, prophets, saints and apostles to go through persecution. They had faith, they kept their faith, yet they underwent pesection. Surely those spared persecution will not reign over those that were spared trials. Some will endure persecution, even unto being be-headed. How do you justify God's prophets enduring persecution yet those taken in the rapture ruling along side these prophets, saints, those beheaded for their faith etc... etc...?
I would like to add this: In reference to rapture scripture refers to a number no man can count... that numer could be a low number, as who would expect only 855 are taken in the rapture? Certainly as long as no one could possibly claim they would stake their eternal life on a low number as being correct.. a low number or for that matter, any number can be correct. Daniel 12:12 may provide some other insight concerning the time after the rapture. It is the only time in the Bible God blesses those that curse him as God asks us to do. Those following the Beast by taking his mark, are enemies of God and so God blesses those the curse him. Those who continue through Tribulation yet do not accept the Mark of the Beast, are also blessed. And Go does this without blessing those who are not God's enemies or those believers that must suffer the wrath of Tribulation. So, I expect the rapture to be real and o take place very soon after the Abomination of Desolation transpires.
'
Consider those who go thrugh the Trbulations as those that rule when Christ puts his place on earth to rule. Consider that those taken in the Rapture are ruled over by those who were victorious through Tribulation. Consider that God allowed his deciples, prophets, saints and apostles to go through persecution. They had faith, they kept their faith, yet they underwent pesection. Surely those spared persecution will not reign over those that were spared trials. Some will endure persecution, even unto being be-headed. How do you justify God's prophets enduring persecution yet those taken in the rapture ruling along side these prophets, saints, those beheaded for their faith etc... etc...?
I would like to add this: In reference to rapture scripture refers to a number no man can count... that numer could be a low number, as who would expect only 855 are taken in the rapture? Certainly as long as no one could possibly claim they would stake their eternal life on a low number as being correct.. a low number or for that matter, any number can be correct. Daniel 12:12 may provide some other insight concerning the time after the rapture. It is the only time in the Bible God blesses those that curse him as God asks us to do. Those following the Beast by taking his mark, are enemies of God and so God blesses those the curse him. Those who continue through Tribulation yet do not accept the Mark of the Beast, are also blessed. And Go does this without blessing those who are not God's enemies or those believers that must suffer the wrath of Tribulation. So, I expect the rapture to be real and o take place very soon after the Abomination of Desolation transpires.
'
Hi Terry,
If I might, -- satan cannot obtain subservience by default. For example, a con artist cannot send letter by registered mail demanding denial of access to their bank account, and presume that if access is not denied that privilege is granted. And so too, any acceptance of satan as ~lord~ must be specifically given, by a person with a sound mind and in full knowledge of that designated allegiance.
And if I might suggest, -- I would propose that many seek Scriptural shadows to justify their doctrines. This is no different than looking at clouds and declaring shapes, as though there really were unicorns floating across the sky. But if one sought the TRUTH of Scripture, one could perceive that the DEAD rise first. And this occurrence is declared to be at the end of the millennial kingdom:
Rev. 20:5
[sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
But most people prefer their shadows.
BibleScribe
PS Please be aware that after the thousand years are ended, the New Jerusalem shall appear in the heavens. So either Jesus can build a bunch of Space Shuttles, or these can simply be ~raptured~:
1 Thess 4:17
[sup]17[/sup] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
BibleScribe wrote: "If I might, -- satan cannot obtain subservience by default. For example, a con artist cannot send letter by registered mail demanding denial of access to their bank account, and presume that if access is not denied that privilege is granted. And so too, any acceptance of satan as ~lord~ must be specifically given, by a person with a sound mind and in full knowledge of that designated allegiance." Actually,I believe con artists begin by allowing use of their "product" freely for a short time, yet require a credit card to attatch monetary fees if the person does not remember to stop the agreement. Stopping the agreement procedure requires finding hiddden and or obscure paths instead of a bold front page access. A trial period add on to my phone did that same con. Agreed, Satan should not be allowed to force his mark on anyone without presence of mind... and so to prevent that... we have the rapture. Now, connect this train of thought to the part in prophecy where it says; woe to those who give suck in those days... (not an exact quote) why would children be in any danger, since they do not have presence of mind? OH, BibleScribe, as to your "floating unicorns" in the clouds... this may sound strange, I did see a couple of floating unicorns in the clouds, in one vision I had. They were just the busts of 2 unicorns, but they were as well defined as if they were cut from marble by a great sculpture. Hopefully, one day I will tell you of that vision but, for now, it remains part of a secret I possess. Had you been with me, you would have been able to see the same things I saw. (The unicorn busts represented the origin of the power of the 2 witnesses.) OK, so the new Jerusalem appears in the heaven, but that does not mean it will not take a physical stance upon the eath. Just as the two witnesses ascend to heaven from earth, so to can the New Jerusalem descend from the heaven to the earth. (Just a thought)
Isaiah 55:8-9
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
In other words, God doesn't have to conform to man's sense of justice. The pretribulation rapture is not in scripture, therefore nothing in scripture can be referring to it, as there's nothing to refer to. This doctrine is spiritual poison.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
In other words, God doesn't have to conform to man's sense of justice. The pretribulation rapture is not in scripture, therefore nothing in scripture can be referring to it, as there's nothing to refer to. This doctrine is spiritual poison.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
God will dwell with men on Earth, from the New Jerusalem, as it is written:
Rev 21:2 & 3
The New Jerusalem is a cube, 1500 miles in width, height, and depth. It descends from Heaven and will rest on Earth. This takes place after the 1000 year Millennial Reign of Christ, and after God makes all things new...including the earth.
Clarification:
Indeed, Paul is referring to the gathering-together of saintly souls ( 1 Thess 4:17 ) PRIOR to the start of the MK of Christ. In that description by Paul, he clearly identifies that ONLY the saintly souls - whose bodies are dead - are reconstituted and given a changed body and rise to meet Christ. This takes place FIRST, in the twinkling of an eye, and THEN, the living Trib saints are risen to meet Christ in the air very shortly afterward. The Rev 20:5 reference, is talking about the dead - who weren't raised with Christ in the pre-millennial rapture - being risen FOR JUDGMENT at the Great White Throne Judgment after Christ's MK reign is complete. Two totally seperate events seperated by 1000 yrs +.
TWC -
To what author are you referring to? I agree, the pre-trib rapture doctrine is "spiritual poison". I also believe it is the "great delusion" Paul speaks of in 2 Thess 2.
Hi Popeye,
Please consider the following concepts:
The only enduring vestige is the New Jerusalem.
Matt 24:35
[sup]35[/sup] Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
GOD seldom makes cubes. However, he often makes spheres. And as measured in the X,Y, & Z axes, the New Jerusalem will be the dimensions you cite.
Rev. 20:4-6 explains how the martyred DEAD shall be raised and reign.
Rev. 20:4-6
[sup]4[/sup] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[sup][a][/sup] thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Please consider that if there a "church" ~Tribulation~ rapture of the Dead and Living, this would be the FIRST resurrection. Accordingly, the raising of the Martyred would be a SECOND resurrection. However, this passage specifically limits the FIRST resurrection to the Martyred, and excludes ALL OTHER DEAD to a later date:
Rev. 20:5
[sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
And following this guidance, we know that after the dead are raised, next come those who are alive and remain:
1 Thess 4:17
[sup]17[/sup] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Suffice it to say, there will be many who will not join satan after his release in the final march against Jerusalem. At that time the dead will rise, and then those still alive on earth will ascend.
Or so it would seem.
BibleScribe
Please consider the following concepts:
The only enduring vestige is the New Jerusalem.
Matt 24:35
[sup]35[/sup] Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
GOD seldom makes cubes. However, he often makes spheres. And as measured in the X,Y, & Z axes, the New Jerusalem will be the dimensions you cite.
Rev. 20:4-6 explains how the martyred DEAD shall be raised and reign.
Rev. 20:4-6
[sup]4[/sup] And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[sup][a][/sup] thousand years. [sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [sup]6[/sup] Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Please consider that if there a "church" ~Tribulation~ rapture of the Dead and Living, this would be the FIRST resurrection. Accordingly, the raising of the Martyred would be a SECOND resurrection. However, this passage specifically limits the FIRST resurrection to the Martyred, and excludes ALL OTHER DEAD to a later date:
Rev. 20:5
[sup]5[/sup] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
And following this guidance, we know that after the dead are raised, next come those who are alive and remain:
1 Thess 4:17
[sup]17[/sup] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Suffice it to say, there will be many who will not join satan after his release in the final march against Jerusalem. At that time the dead will rise, and then those still alive on earth will ascend.
Or so it would seem.
BibleScribe
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, BibleScribe and popeye.
Actually, it will be neither a cube nor a sphere. The sphere theory is assuming that the city will remain in orbit around the New Earth and will thus be a satellite like the moon. There are several reasons why I believe that Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) MUST LAND UPON the New Earth:
I read my list to a friend once (who believed that the New Jerusalem would be a cube) and for all my arguments, the one that struck home to him was a very simple one. I'll reveal it in a moment.
Here are some of the reasons:
First, reasons why I believe that the New Jerusalem will land on the New Earth:
1. The city will have foundations or footings (Greek: themelioi).
2. The city is said to come down from God out of the sky (Greek: ouranos frequently translated “heaven”). John doesn't use Paul's word epouranios, meaning "of or belonging to above-the-sky."
3. The city is said to have golden streets; I believe that these golden streets will lead to the twelve gates of pearl where they will connect to twelve roads on the surface of the New Earth.
4. The city is said to have three gates on each of its four sides with each group of three gates facing a different compass direction; therefore, the city will be aligned with true north.
5. These gates and the street connected to these gates should lead SOMEWHERE. I believe they will lead outside to the surface of the New Earth.
6. The nations of the Earth are said to bring their glory and honor into the city; therefore, normal travel on foot or in vehicles to get to the city should be possible and allowed without a high cost factor.
7. The city has a river of life-sustaining (potable) water flowing in the middle of the streets; where would the water go? To me, it makes the best sense to imagine that it will flow out of the twelve gates to form twelve rivers on the surface of the New Earth, just as the streets should connect to twelve roads going in twelve different directions on the surface of this New Earth.
8. I believe that the city will have a pyramidal shape, also for a number of reasons, but in a sphere or in a cube, where is the logical place for the location for the throne of God and of the Lamb? In the exact center, right? However, in a pyramid, where is the logical place for the location for the throne? In the pinnacle, right? Now, if you'll notice where the river of life-sustaining water originates, it comes FROM the throne! Now ask yourself, "How does the water go throughout the city?" If the shape is a cube or a sphere, somehow the water would have to be PUMPED to the parts of the city above the center where the throne would be. However, if the shape is a pyramid, the water could flow naturally down in the direction of gravity! (One might also recall that the "pinnacle" of a pyramid is called a "capstone." In the Scriptures, this is known as "the head stone of the corner" or a "head of the corner," as in Psalm 118:22, Matthew 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, and Ephesians 2:20!)
This is the reason that convinced my friend.
Actually, it will be neither a cube nor a sphere. The sphere theory is assuming that the city will remain in orbit around the New Earth and will thus be a satellite like the moon. There are several reasons why I believe that Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) MUST LAND UPON the New Earth:
I read my list to a friend once (who believed that the New Jerusalem would be a cube) and for all my arguments, the one that struck home to him was a very simple one. I'll reveal it in a moment.
Here are some of the reasons:
First, reasons why I believe that the New Jerusalem will land on the New Earth:
1. The city will have foundations or footings (Greek: themelioi).
2. The city is said to come down from God out of the sky (Greek: ouranos frequently translated “heaven”). John doesn't use Paul's word epouranios, meaning "of or belonging to above-the-sky."
3. The city is said to have golden streets; I believe that these golden streets will lead to the twelve gates of pearl where they will connect to twelve roads on the surface of the New Earth.
4. The city is said to have three gates on each of its four sides with each group of three gates facing a different compass direction; therefore, the city will be aligned with true north.
5. These gates and the street connected to these gates should lead SOMEWHERE. I believe they will lead outside to the surface of the New Earth.
6. The nations of the Earth are said to bring their glory and honor into the city; therefore, normal travel on foot or in vehicles to get to the city should be possible and allowed without a high cost factor.
7. The city has a river of life-sustaining (potable) water flowing in the middle of the streets; where would the water go? To me, it makes the best sense to imagine that it will flow out of the twelve gates to form twelve rivers on the surface of the New Earth, just as the streets should connect to twelve roads going in twelve different directions on the surface of this New Earth.
8. I believe that the city will have a pyramidal shape, also for a number of reasons, but in a sphere or in a cube, where is the logical place for the location for the throne of God and of the Lamb? In the exact center, right? However, in a pyramid, where is the logical place for the location for the throne? In the pinnacle, right? Now, if you'll notice where the river of life-sustaining water originates, it comes FROM the throne! Now ask yourself, "How does the water go throughout the city?" If the shape is a cube or a sphere, somehow the water would have to be PUMPED to the parts of the city above the center where the throne would be. However, if the shape is a pyramid, the water could flow naturally down in the direction of gravity! (One might also recall that the "pinnacle" of a pyramid is called a "capstone." In the Scriptures, this is known as "the head stone of the corner" or a "head of the corner," as in Psalm 118:22, Matthew 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, and Ephesians 2:20!)
This is the reason that convinced my friend.
Hi Retrobyter,
I wouldn't anticipate that the New Jerusalem is anything more than a fly-by. For if the heavens and earth shall pass away, why anchor the New Jerusalem to a dead planet either by satellite or by touch-down? I would anticipate that the earth's resources will be exhausted by that date, and even if they weren't, I don't think Heaven will have any lack in it's own essence.
However, your pyramid concept is interesting. It certainly defies a ~spherical heavenly-body precedent, but that should not be a an impediment to the Creator.
BibleScribe
I wouldn't anticipate that the New Jerusalem is anything more than a fly-by. For if the heavens and earth shall pass away, why anchor the New Jerusalem to a dead planet either by satellite or by touch-down? I would anticipate that the earth's resources will be exhausted by that date, and even if they weren't, I don't think Heaven will have any lack in it's own essence.
However, your pyramid concept is interesting. It certainly defies a ~spherical heavenly-body precedent, but that should not be a an impediment to the Creator.
BibleScribe
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, BibleScribe.
I'm going to start with a bunch of Scriptures:
Psalm 37
1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4 Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous.
18 The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
33 The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.
KJV
Psalm 72:1-19
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
KJV
Psalm 78:65-72
65 Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.
66 And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.
67 Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
68 But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.
70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:
71 From following the ewes great with young he brought him to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance.
72 So he fed them according to the integrity of his heart; and guided them by the skilfulness of his hands.
KJV
Psalm 89
1 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 Ihave made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
46 How long, Lord? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
49 Lord, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O Lord; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
52 Blessed be the Lord for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
KJV
Psalm 104:1-5
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
KJV
Psalm 115
1 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
11 Ye that fear the Lord, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
12 The Lord hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.
13 He will bless them that fear the Lord, both small and great.
14 The Lord shall increase you more and more, you and your children.
15 Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord.
KJV
Psalm 148:1-6
1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
KJV
Ecclesiastes 1:1-4
1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
KJV
Isaiah 11:1-10
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
KJV
Isaiah 45:12-18
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts.
14 Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
KJV
Isaiah 62
1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the Lord, keep not silence,
7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
8 The Lord hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:
9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the Lord; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.
10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
11 Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
KJV
Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
KJV
What kind of inheritance would it be if it only lasted a little while?!
Deuteronomy 4:29-40
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
34 Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.
39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.
KJV
For as many verses as there are which say that the heaven and the earth will be destroyed, there are just as many that say that it is established forever! The answer is that the FOUNDATIONS of the earth will abide forever, but the SURFACE of the earth and the sky (the heaven) will be destroyed by fire. God didn't make this earth to lose it to Satan! HaSatan (The Enemy) will not win at all, even in the slightest way! Will God indeed be thwarted and see His Creation be destroyed?
The New Earth with its New Sky (New Heaven) will be created from the ashes of the First Earth and its Sky. Why would God destroy the whole globe - all 6.6 sextillion tons of it - because mankind messed up its surface less than a mile deep?! Would you throw away a Christmas present because the wrapping was marred and torn prematurely? NO, you'd re-wrap the present! God will simply "re-wrap" the earth and call it the "NEW EARTH!"
Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) will NOT be "anchored to a dead planet" but to a VIBRANT, LIVING PLANET, TEEMING WITH LIFE, THAT WILL LAST FOREVER!
Hi Retrobyter,
I wouldn't anticipate that the New Jerusalem is anything more than a fly-by. For if the heavens and earth shall pass away, why anchor the New Jerusalem to a dead planet either by satellite or by touch-down? I would anticipate that the earth's resources will be exhausted by that date, and even if they weren't, I don't think Heaven will have any lack in it's own essence.
However, your pyramid concept is interesting. It certainly defies a ~spherical heavenly-body precedent, but that should not be a an impediment to the Creator.
BibleScribe
I'm going to start with a bunch of Scriptures:
Psalm 37
1 Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
3 Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4 Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous.
18 The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
33 The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the Lord shall help them and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.
KJV
Psalm 72:1-19
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
18 Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
KJV
Psalm 78:65-72
65 Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine.
66 And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.
67 Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
68 But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
69 And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.
70 He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:
71 From following the ewes great with young he brought him to feed Jacob his people, and Israel his inheritance.
72 So he fed them according to the integrity of his heart; and guided them by the skilfulness of his hands.
KJV
Psalm 89
1 I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.
3 Ihave made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
8 O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:
21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.
22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.
24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.
26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours.
42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground.
45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.
46 How long, Lord? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
49 Lord, where are thy former lovingkindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O Lord; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.
52 Blessed be the Lord for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
KJV
Psalm 104:1-5
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
KJV
Psalm 115
1 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
9 O Israel, trust thou in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
10 O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
11 Ye that fear the Lord, trust in the Lord: he is their help and their shield.
12 The Lord hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.
13 He will bless them that fear the Lord, both small and great.
14 The Lord shall increase you more and more, you and your children.
15 Ye are blessed of the Lord which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the Lord from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the Lord.
KJV
Psalm 148:1-6
1 Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: praise him in the heights.
2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created.
6 He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
KJV
Ecclesiastes 1:1-4
1 The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
KJV
Isaiah 11:1-10
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
KJV
Isaiah 45:12-18
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the Lord of hosts.
14 Thus saith the Lord, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
KJV
Isaiah 62
1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.
3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the Lord, keep not silence,
7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
8 The Lord hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured:
9 But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the Lord; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness.
10 Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people.
11 Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
KJV
Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
KJV
What kind of inheritance would it be if it only lasted a little while?!
Deuteronomy 4:29-40
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God
he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
34 Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.
39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.
KJV
For as many verses as there are which say that the heaven and the earth will be destroyed, there are just as many that say that it is established forever! The answer is that the FOUNDATIONS of the earth will abide forever, but the SURFACE of the earth and the sky (the heaven) will be destroyed by fire. God didn't make this earth to lose it to Satan! HaSatan (The Enemy) will not win at all, even in the slightest way! Will God indeed be thwarted and see His Creation be destroyed?
The New Earth with its New Sky (New Heaven) will be created from the ashes of the First Earth and its Sky. Why would God destroy the whole globe - all 6.6 sextillion tons of it - because mankind messed up its surface less than a mile deep?! Would you throw away a Christmas present because the wrapping was marred and torn prematurely? NO, you'd re-wrap the present! God will simply "re-wrap" the earth and call it the "NEW EARTH!"
Yerushalayim haChadashah (the New Jerusalem) will NOT be "anchored to a dead planet" but to a VIBRANT, LIVING PLANET, TEEMING WITH LIFE, THAT WILL LAST FOREVER!
Similar threads
