Daniels 4 Beasts

Ronald Nolette said:

Well, you may have the last post as this will be my last. We disagree, but your sin of presumptuousness as to what my emotions are in my writing is base and demeaning to you. But to let you know my "programmers" as your ad-hominem alleges is native born Hebrew Speaker, that until He got saved was studying to be a patriarchal rebbe".

As He has no axe to grind or agenda to bear other than glorifying the Messiah, I take his word far over yours. Also three other native Hebrew speakers all say you are wrong. That is why I asked for you defense- YOu really suck at reading peoples emotions! I wll not repsond to you again.

Click to expand...

So you demanded scriptural evidence that proves that I am right, but your claim that I am wrong is not based on scriptural evidence but rather on the opinions of others who have had "training" and "experience," as you have put it.

There are many opinion on the Scriptures that comes from Satan rather than from the Holy Spirit. This is but one such case where God has allowed the contextual understanding of the scriptures to be sealed up so that there is no understanding except for those who actually use their laughing matter and are able to see and understand.

Now your false argument against my apology is that you have attacked the person, rather than provide the actual evidence that might have proved that your opinion was right.

In this vain of a false argument, you claimed that I have the sin of presumptuousness but that sin is actually yours, because you have presumed that your understanding is right and no matter what God given apology that I might have presented for you, I still would have been wrong in the eyes of your understanding.

An actual study on the Chronology of the Scriptures from the beginning to the end, from the creation of Adam to the final judgement just before Eternity, would show that what I have posted, is contextually correct with all of the scriptures that God has provided.

Man's History also confirms what I have come to understand.

Now I hope that you will not respond again, but will have to patience to wait the 22 or so years that I have suggested to when the end of this present age will be and the Armageddon Event that will occur then, to confirm whether, what I have posted, is correct. Your arguments so far that I am wrong have not been strong enough to prove otherwise.

Now you go and have a good day now.

Eternally Grateful said:

if I may, to find this we go to Daniels prayer, for which the answer of Gabriel was in response to.

Dan 9:
11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.

13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the disaster in mind, and brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works which He does, though we have not obeyed His voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and made Yourself a name, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have done wickedly!

16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

Click to expand...

Thanks!
Yes, specifically in Daniel 9:21-23.

In verse 24 is what was determined.
Most Christians don't pay attention to what God had determined for His six works to be accomplished through Jesus first appearance.

Edit:
Therefore what was determined, was also "finished" by Jesus, and was "poured [out] upon the desolate [unsaved people]", aka the Day of Pentecost, and all time forward.

Eternally Grateful said:

But they have not yet been accomplished yet have they? At least not all of them

Click to expand...

If those SIX WORKS of God were NOT "Finished" by Jesus, no one would be able, or allowed to permanently receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit.
That is what Jesus was referencing, when He said:
John.17[4] I have glorified thee on the earth:
I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John.19[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Timtofly said:

There is nothing in Daniel 9 about Rome, Romans, nor Roman Generals. You choose to insert private opinions into the text, where they do not belong. No Roman is the prince who died on the Cross as the Atonement Covenant.
....

Click to expand...

This conversation is over, since you deny the very Daniel 9 Scripture about the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (the 2nd temple in Jerusalem). That was clearly history, so there's no room for guessing on that, it was done by general Titus and his Roman army, and was historical fact. Maybe the next thing you'll deny is that the sky is blue.

Davy said:

This conversation is over, since you deny the very Daniel 9 Scripture about the destruction of the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (the 2nd temple in Jerusalem). That was clearly history, so there's no room for guessing on that, it was done by general Titus and his Roman army, and was historical fact. Maybe the next thing you'll deny is that the sky is blue.

Click to expand...

I did not deny the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

I denied that the Romans were mentioned. The Greeks or Chinese could have destroyed it and you would have placed them in the text just as easily. The religious leaders of Jesus' day, declared judgment upon themselves and their children for shedding the blood of Christ.

Eternally Grateful said:

yes it is Titus in Green, But vs 26 does not mention him, It says the people of the prince to come. So more accurately it would be Titus and his armies.

Click to expand...

Titus had/has nothing to do with the prophetic Prince to come, as was prophesied by Daniel and Ezekiel. You, and all them which think like you, must study better that incoherent interpretation.

What Titus and his armies did was exclusively the fulfillment of another prophecy dictated by JESUS, when He went out from the temple and his disciples shew Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them what they would never imagine: "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down".

You, and all them which think like you, must study better the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD-due that above incoherent interpretation. Titus was/is not the Prince to come, according your imagination, and of others who think like you.

-----------------------------

When Titus and his army invaded Israel, the temple of Jerusalem was destroyed and thus fulfilled what JESUS had said unto His disciples, saying: See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

But in the same time, hundreds of thousands of Israel were killed in the invasion of the Romans, by Titus and his armies, those who fled and escaped, they scattered themselves and were persecuted in the four corners of the earth, from the year 70 to the year 1948, they were severely PUNISHED and remained without nation for 1,878 anos. The CURSES which Moses spoke against Israel-Deuteronomy 28:v.15 to 68-, they all fell upon all the Jews wherever they went around the world until 1.948.

And now, what will happen with the nation of Israel that has returned to their land, in fulfillment of all that is written about them in the Word of God? Israel still reject JESUS and His Gospel, the Jews are waiting the manifestation of their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. By the way, the Lord JESUS did know they will receive another messiah and He prophesied about the coming of a false messiah, an IMPOSTOR. JESUS said to the Jews: (John 5:v.43-47) 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER (AN IMPOSTER, A FALSE MESSIAH, shall come in his own name him ye will receive. (THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY)

Who is the false messiah of the ESOTERIC Jews, yeah, who is this IMPOSTOR?

He is the Beast which will rise up out of the earth LIKE A LAMB (a false LAMB, course-Rev.13:v.11-18), whose coming is after the working of Satan (2Thes.2:9-12) with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness IN THEM THAT PERISH ; because they received not the love of the truth (they received not JESUS), that they might be saved. And for this cause GOD shall SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION IN ISRAEL, that they should believe a lie (the Jews will believe in the false messiah, as JESUS warned them: John 5:v.v.43. Check it): That THEY ALL MIGHT BE DAMNED (Except 144K) who believed not the truth (believed not in JESUS, the true Messiah), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Based in this Word of God, they are lost once believing in a FALSE messiah, an IMPOSTOR, even GOD will send to Israel A STRONG DELUSION that they believe a LIE and be DAMNED.

Romans 2:v.12- as many as have sinned in the law (the JEWS) shall be Judged by the law; and as many as have sinned without law (the GENTILES) shall also PERISH without law.

Yeah, GOD will send to Israel A STRONG DELUSION that they believe a LIE and be DAMNED. (Only a remnant will be saved-144K-according prophecy)

Get ready

He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Eternally Grateful said:

As you admitted, It concerns the nation of Israel.

it does not concern anyone else.

They will nt be accomplished until Israel repents.

Click to expand...

The 70 weeks are "finished", as Jesus said.
You missed the point. The very end of Daniel 9:27 is about Pentecost for all people, going forward upto the Lord's Second appearing, in flaming fire, from out of Heaven.

NOW is the time of God's Grace for ALL people.
For each Jew, that has NOT appeared/come before/to the judgment seat of Christ, in their lifetime of their generation, they are just as lost from the KoG, as any Gentile. There is NO preferential treatment by God towards a Jew now, or ever.
All are equal, and equally sinful in His sight.

You are listening to too much of the fiction that is being fabricated from the Fantasy Land of the "Tares" in "church-ianity".

Listen closely to the words of Christ's judgment seat in John 3[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eternally Grateful said:

I disagree, Dan 9 is solely about Israel. the city and the temple. I posted the part of Dan 9 which shows that. What confuses me is you agreed. so why would you change?

Click to expand...

It's not that I changed, it's you who is not seeing and agreeing with the correct view of the last sentence in KJV Daniel 9:27.
The KoG, who is Jesus Himself, was made available (poured upon) TO ALL PEOPLE, being those who are "desolate", being VOID of God's indwelling presence, IN THE DAY OF PENTECOST, and all time forward.

Eternally Grateful said:

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

1. He is antichrist, or the future prince of rome
2. He will confirm a covenant with many for 7 literal years
3. In the middle of that period (3.5 years or times times and half a time) he will commit the abomination of desolation
4. The temple will remain desolate and unclean hence no sacrifice or burnt offering can be given, it will remain that way until the consummation which is determined (in other passages we see this to be another 3.5 years) is poured out on the desolate, Jesus called this the time of great tribulation in Matt 24.
5. As we know. at the end of this time, Jesus himself will return and the time of the gentiles will be completed. the final gentile beast will be destroyed, and Jesus will usher in world peace and restoration while he himself sits on the throne in Jerusalem.

Click to expand...

Though from the 17th century French Catholic side, I prefer the following translation of the Daniel 9:27 verse. Their point about the "abomination of desolation" is right on as far as I'm concerned...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.
Douay-Rheims

It's funny to listen to those who try to make that prophecy about Daniel's final "one week" at the end of this world into something else, especially with vain attempts to say that was either part of Christ's Ministry, or about the 70 A.D. destruction of the temple by the Romans, when the Romans never could get possession of the temple; it burned down beforehand according to the Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.).

The Daniel 11 events about the "vile person" covers that Daniel 9:27 prophecy as well. It shows the affirming of the covenant (old covenant) with sacrifices again, and then instead of that, the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate. And this event is what Lord Jesus was pointing to for the end per His Olivet discourse.

Eternally Grateful said:

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

1. He is antichrist, or the future prince of rome
2. He will confirm a covenant with many for 7 literal years
3. In the middle of that period (3.5 years or times times and half a time) he will commit the abomination of desolation
4. The temple will remain desolate and unclean hence no sacrifice or burnt offering can be given, it will remain that way until the consummation which is determined (in other passages we see this to be another 3.5 years) is poured out on the desolate, Jesus called this the time of great tribulation in Matt 24.
5. As we know. at the end of this time, Jesus himself will return and the time of the gentiles will be completed. the final gentile beast will be destroyed, and Jesus will usher in world peace and restoration while he himself sits on the throne in Jerusalem.

Click to expand...

Nope. There is no such person as THE Antichrist in the KJV Bible.

Eternally Grateful said:

Call him the antichrist. the future prince of Rome. The beast who is to come, the son of perdition. The prince who is to come. Whatever you want.

It talks about him, Not Christ.

Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant,

he did not break it

he did not commit the abomination of desolation

as for the KJV, not sure why that matters

Click to expand...

But still, it's not about a pope.

The Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11 and Matthew 24:15 event of the placing of the "abomination of desolation" is to happen in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem, not in Rome with a pope.

Jesus called that coming false one a pseudo-Christ (per the Greek pseudochristos in Matthew 24:24). The unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem are thus going to believe that is their Messiah that the Old Testament prophets spoke of. Like Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews...

John 5:43
43 I am come in My Father's name, and ye receive Me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
KJV

Eternally Grateful said:

Call him the antichrist. the future prince of Rome. The beast who is to come, the son of perdition. The prince who is to come. Whatever you want.

It talks about him, Not Christ.

Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant,

he did not break it

he did not commit the abomination of desolation

as for the KJV, not sure why that matters

Click to expand...

Nope! You are not hearing what I am saying.
In the Textus Receptus Greek, the origin of the KJV, there is NO SINGULAR MAN, BEAST, HORN OR whatever, that is called THE Antichrist.
Such a term is a fabrication from Daniel, conjured up by the "tares" of "church-ianity".

Eternally Grateful said:

Yes.

AN AOD in some temple in Rome would be meaningless. Considering the prophecy is about Israel in the jewish temple

Click to expand...

Actually, you both are wrong.
"Church-ianity" has been promoting errors about "the abomination that maketh desolate" for many generations.
So now today, we have many erroneous interpretatations arguing against themselves, and all the while the truth of what actually happened in 169 BC, is buried so deeply, that the words of Jesus making reference to it, has been corrupted into futuristic science fiction!