Homosexuality

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Is homosexuality a sin?


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Vengle

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Sep 22, 2011
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Yes, once again we see that everything is a shadow.

I hadn't given thought to what they might specifically represent, though I realized they represented what actually happens in us. Could you explain 'offering the young bulls of our lips as sacrifice'?

And do you know of others? I'm interested! :)


Yes, that is about our carrying the message of Christ to others. When we preach the gospel we are as sacrificing young bulls on our lips. I added above that Hosea chapter 14:1-2 speaks of this. I cannot help but feel that I remember David speaking about it also. But I am getting tired and my brain won't let me find it. :rolleyes:

Well so far I cannot find David having spoken about it. This is what i look like right now: :blink:
 

Vengle

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One thing that happens to us the more we get to know God's real character and especially his love we are enabled by that to see other possibilities behind certain scriptures that we could not before that see.

And that alone will cause many that cannot yet see in that extra light of closeness with God what we now see because of it. So they very often think we are talking off the wall our own interpretation. If their heart is right then the necessary humility will be disciplined of themselves to force themselves to wrestle with it until they see. And the more they see they more they will be able to see.

That is why I like that name Israel (Contender or clinger with God).

We want that prize so bad we refuse to give up and the most powerful way that is shown to be love for God rather than pride is that we do not become so fixated on our own belief so that we are then unwilling to see any further.

But try to explain that to someone who is fixated on their own belief and thinks that just because we won't agree with them we have not looked at what they say.

What a deal, hey!!!
 

Prentis

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Yes. There is much depth to the words of the Lord, the more we know him in communion, the more he opens up it's mysteries to us. :)
 

Vengle

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We actually get until we totally can relate to Abraham's questions of God concerning the destruction of Sodom.

We understand how it was that Abraham could know God so well that he knew what God would and would not do.

He got a little confused at what God told him at first but he spoke what he knew God to be like in character.

And he was correct.

Genesis 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
 

Vengle

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In case anyone noticed the double post of nearly identical words:

I was being plagued by tiredness and it had me clicking the wrong buttons when i was trying to edit. :)

I get that way sometimes when there is something the spirit in me is demanding I see but am only at that moment catching a mere glimpse of it. It won't let me sleep until I do see it clearly.

So I guess you could say that some of my best learning has come to me when I was at my stupidest due to being so tired. :lol:
 

FHII

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All I can do is laugh, shake my head and say I hope that works out for you Vengle.
 

Vengle

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All I can do is laugh, shake my head and say I hope that works out for you Vengle.

Not sure if you mean my sleep problem or if you are commenting bout the discussion I was having with Prentis.

Either way, your comment is appreciated.

The things I discussed with Prentis have to do with a question that first came to me as, "If we were all sealed up under sin from before the founding of the world, due to the sin of Adam, then why would we need that law to put us to death?"

And so the debate was ignited within me. I get into my biggest arguments with myself. :rolleyes:

On the surface it would seem that either one or the other is true, but not both. And if both are true, well then, it could only mean that I was not yet seeing the lion's share of what was there to be seen.

The answers I eventually learned turned out to pivot on these two statements by Paul:

Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

Romans 5:13 "(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Now we can see what I said in Paul's two statements, "God would not put us to death for sin if we had no capability within us not to sin, for that would not be justice." Yet we saw many through out the Bible that he clearly punished and many who he utterly destroyed for sin. (I am not speaking of his letting us live out a normal life-span as though we are but a common animal. I am speaking about being punished and executed for sin.)

Similarly, if we had no innate ability to keep that Old law, then that law would not be just to convict us of its violation and thus confirm sin in us.

This is very simple common sense reasoning, and we see Paul used that kind of reasoning in those two verses I cited.

It is our faith in the goodness of God that steps in to make us desire to understand this.

And it is not a mystery in the sense of what we today seem to think of mysteries as being unable to be understood.

The mysteries the Bible speaks of means only that it is a mystery to us because we are puzzled by it before we receive God's help to understand.
 

FHII

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Wasn't laughing at your sleep problems or really your conversation with Prentis. I read a little bit about this theory of yours on the debate board and from what I see (and if I'm not understanding you correctly I apologize) is that you believe Christ came to show us we could live a sinless life and follow the law. That I totally disagree with for many reasons and it's not a debate I'm interested in carrying out at this time.

I do wish you the best on carrying out that plan though. There is nothing wrong with doing your best to keep the law (as long as you don't account it as righteousness), so best to you on that.
 

Vengle

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Wasn't laughing at your sleep problems or really your conversation with Prentis. I read a little bit about this theory of yours on the debate board and from what I see (and if I'm not understanding you correctly I apologize) is that you believe Christ came to show us we could live a sinless life and follow the law. That I totally disagree with for many reasons and it's not a debate I'm interested in carrying out at this time.

I do wish you the best on carrying out that plan though. There is nothing wrong with doing your best to keep the law (as long as you don't account it as righteousness), so best to you on that.

It dawned on me that the title of this thread is probably not the best place to discuss this but I would like very much to hear your your thoughts elaborated.

What would be the proper way to facilitate doing that?

Bear in mind that what I am saying is a literal interpretation of Romans 8: 12

What I have found is that most speak of that power they get from God but it actually remains mysterious to them.

In now way have I ever said we do it in our ow strength. I have said we do it by knowing accurately how to draw our strength from God.

And that is through having a faith that is not mysterious. Faith works of God's power and so we need to understand how our faith works.

Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

Do you believe what Jesus said?
 

FHII

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It dawned on me that the title of this thread is probably not the best place to discuss this but I would like very much to hear your your thoughts elaborated.

It isn't the best thread to talk about it. I for one am not defending homosexuality. I know it is a sin. I am not a homosexual either (happily married to a member of the opposite sex, and totally devoted to her). I'm not defending any sin, even my own ones. I'm defending grace: that it works for all sins of the flesh.

Perhaps the best thing to do is start a new thread. Organize your thoughts and be clear on your beliefs. If you want to get my attention, know that i am from a science background. Boldly and up front state your position so that there is no question whatsoever on where you stand. Then defend it. That is just the way I clearly understand things... It may not work for all people but it works for me.
 

Prentis

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Well said, Vengle.

Romans 5:2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Grace is the power to make us stand, to make us strong for the Lord, or rather his strength being strong in us. By his grace all things are possible... We tap into it by faith!
 

Vengle

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Well said, Vengle.

Romans 5:2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Grace is the power to make us stand, to make us strong for the Lord, or rather his strength being strong in us. By his grace all things are possible... We tap into it by faith!

Amen.

I like to muse about the different way we can view scriptures.

Take for example: 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Some view that as saying, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for God's seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Some view that as saying, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in God: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

And some view it as saying, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for God's seed remaineth in God: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Which way do you see it Prentis?
 

Vengle

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1 John 3:9 pas o gegennhmenos ek tou theou amartian ou poiei oti sperma autou en auto menei kai ou dunatai amartanein oti ek tou theou gegennhtai

every the one having been generated out of the God sin not he is doing because seed of Him in him is remaining and not he is able to be sinning because out of the God he has been generated
 

Prentis

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1 John 3:9 pas o gegennhmenos ek tou theou amartian ou poiei oti sperma autou en auto menei kai ou dunatai amartanein oti ek tou theou gegennhtai

every the one having been generated out of the God sin not he is doing because seed of Him in him is remaining and not he is able to be sinning because out of the God he has been generated


This way! :)

Or number one and three (there are the same), but definitely not number two. We must be very careful not to claim the gospel with one breath, and deny it's power with the other.

If we walk in full surrender to Christ, by the Spirit, filled as say Stephen was when he was stoned (just as an example), it is the new man living, full of the power and glory of God. Such cannot sin! Otherwise we would have to attribute sin to Christ!
 

Vengle

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This way! :)

Or number one and three (there are the same), but definitely not number two. We must be very careful not to claim the gospel with one breath, and deny it's power with the other.

If we walk in full surrender to Christ, by the Spirit, filled as say Stephen was when he was stoned (just as an example), it is the new man living, full of the power and glory of God. Such cannot sin! Otherwise we would have to attribute sin to Christ!

I like that logic Prentis.

It ought to be enough that Christ has endured sinners of the world heaping their sins upon him (which we at one time also did).

If we really are his body we would represent him by our conduct just as he is, holy and pure.
 

Prentis

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I like that logic Prentis.

It ought to be enough that Christ has endured sinners of the world heaping their sins upon him (which we at one time also did).

If we really are his body we would represent him by our conduct just as he is, holy and pure.

Yes! If the head is crucified... Does the body somehow still live?

In the same way, can we be any different from him, when we truly are walking as his body, in the fulness of it?

We must move on always to reach such a place where it is truthful for us to say 'it is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me', and for it to be true in every way.
 

nomerhunks

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We all know, from the book of Genesis, that God created man and woman. I truly understand where people from the third sex come from. They may be having a hard time controlling their emotions towards people with the same sex. But we can't deny the fact that there are gays and lesbians who is more faithful than those straight people. So, we can't totally judge them. With proper knowledge about their nature, they will be able to see their true essence as God's perfect creation.
 

Vengle

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We all know, from the book of Genesis, that God created man and woman. I truly understand where people from the third sex come from. They may be having a hard time controlling their emotions towards people with the same sex. But we can't deny the fact that there are gays and lesbians who is more faithful than those straight people. So, we can't totally judge them. With proper knowledge about their nature, they will be able to see their true essence as God's perfect creation.

Having begun with a rationalization of that law in the first place, to allow homosexuality, how can it be said that we are obedient when what we are doing says, "We will obey only what seems good to us"?
 

Wayne

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This is how I look at homosexuality thing. I don't like idea behind it but I will not judge the person about it.
 
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