Homosexuality

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Is homosexuality a sin?


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FHII

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Do you deny Jesus' words?

Matthew 15:11 "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things."

You are not grasping the spirit of God's Law.

Well, I actually can explain those verses. Neither of them work to your benefit. And neither of them apply to wearing mixed clothe. Yet that was a sin, and you didn't really find a way around Jas 2:10, did you?
 

Vengle

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That's not what it says. It only says God gave them up to debase mind to do the things they do. The scripture tells us that God allow people to go against Him so that He would have mercy on them.

Romans 11:30-32 (KJV)
[sup]30 [/sup]For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
[sup]31 [/sup]Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
[sup]32 [/sup]For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Close, but no cookie yet. :)

He did do what you say up to a point. But His forgiveness comes to us in that we lay our flesh down and pick up the cross of Christ and begin following after him.

Pay particular attention to: [sup]32 [/sup]For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 

FHII

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That is a ridiculous statement, that ignores that the OT is a shadow of the new, and tears down righteousness.

So much of Christianity has chosen to make righteousness null, and call it evil. To do good, they say, like the Good Samaritan, is meaningless. Yet God is pleased with it. We must walk in love.

And then they give out a ridiculous gospel where a 'free pass' is 'arbitrarily handed out', which is contrary to the proclamation of the kingdom which calls to repent, and redeem the time, being conformed to Christ and prepared for his coming.

Finding the tilling of the ground too difficult, men have done away with all righteousness and claimed they need not do it, that they would not have to do what they are instructed to do Hosea 10:12

Offend in one point, guilty of all... That's NT! Have you repented and stopped doing those sins? I also simply paraphrased Romans 8:1. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit." That's NT too!
 

Vengle

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That is a ridiculous statement, that ignores that the OT is a shadow of the new, and tears down righteousness.

So much of Christianity has chosen to make righteousness null, and call it evil. To do good, they say, like the Good Samaritan, is meaningless. Yet God is pleased with it. We must walk in love.

And then they give out a ridiculous gospel where a 'free pass' is 'arbitrarily handed out', which is contrary to the proclamation of the kingdom which calls to repent, and redeem the time, being conformed to Christ and prepared for his coming.

Finding the tilling of the ground too difficult, men have done away with all righteousness and claimed they need not do it, that they would not have to do what they are instructed to do Hosea 10:12

That is because it is easier for men to be told what to do by a list of detailed rules than to have the true spirit of holiness written in their hearts.

When the true spirit of God's holiness is written in a man's heart he then can get away with much less. The carnal man who depends on the hand-written detailed codes is free in his conscience to do whatever he feels was not specifically written in that Law. We see that worked out and proven in the religious leaders of that Old Covenant.
 

Prentis

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I meant this.

Me? I thank God for his grace that says I will not be condemned for any sin in the flesh I do.

In other words, hey, God's got me covered, I can remain carnal, NOT walk after the Spirit, and still be fine with God... I'm his favorite! ;)

Romans 8:1. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit."

The smugness of the modern doctrine puffs man up, which goes against the cross, which calls man to die. Instead of 'I must decrease, that he may increase', we have 'I'll just stay the same, and he'll cover for me.'
 

FHII

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So tell me why you don't believe James 2:10?
 

Prentis

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That is because it is easier for men to be told what to do by a list of detailed rules than to have the true spirit of holiness written in their hearts.

When the true spirit of God's holiness is written in a man's heart he then can get away with much less. The carnal man who depends on the hand-written detailed codes is free in his conscience to do whatever he feels was not specifically written in that Law. We see that worked out and proven in the religious leaders of that Old Covenant.

Yes. Men also use the few verses that speak of none being righteous to promote that should not and cannot attain to Christ, and become conformed to him...

Yet all those verses speak of the righteousness of God, and they speak of the power of the carnal nature to be conformed to God. They use the fact the old nature is powerless to please God to say we are, as if we had no new nature, or that new nature had no power.

The denial of the power of the gospel has been 'hidden in plain sight' in many posters' comments. ;)
 

FHII

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Yes. Men also use the few verses that speak of none being righteous to promote that should not and cannot attain to Christ, and become conformed to him...

Yet all those verses speak of the righteousness of God, and they speak of the power of the carnal nature to be conformed to God. They use the fact the old nature is powerless to please God to say we are, as if we had no new nature, or that new nature had no power.

The denial of the power of the gospel has been 'hidden in plain sight' in many posters' comments. ;)
Smile.... Have a nice day, Prentis.
 

Vengle

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So tell me why you don't believe James 2:10?

We are not under that Law. It was "added" to the promises of God after those promises were already for some time made.

What James is telling you is that if you are going to act like you are yet under that Old Law Covenant then you had better be prepared not to violate one letter of it.

We who are in Christ live by the law of the spirit of life which is in Christ and we understand the purpose and the heavenly things foreshadowed by that Old Law Covenant. So we no longer have a need to be bound to it by letter as we now understand what was behind the letter.

That sounds foolish to one who does not yet understand it. It is part of the foolishness of the cross to the minds of those who do not yet understand.
 

Prentis

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[sup]8[/sup] If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. [sup]9[/sup] But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. [sup]10[/sup] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. [sup]11[/sup] For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
[sup]12[/sup] Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom [royal law], [sup]13[/sup] because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

James is talking about more than one thing. All HAVE sinned, that is obvious, and we must overcome the old nature every day, carry our cross daily. James is making a difference between using the law as judgment against a brother, and following the law of love, on which Christ says all the commands stand.

The law is as a guide, which in itself shows it is for those who are learning. But then there is the Spirit of the law, by which we can fulfill all that must be, if we walk by it. It is the Spirit of God; he is the one who gave the law. The law is not there to condemn us (as God isn't), but to examine us and show us where we are, and where we are lacking.

To take this and claim we cannot mature and grow in righteousness goes exactly opposite to the purpose of the law, which is to teach us and bring us up in the right direction, that we might be as Christ. That is the Spirit of the law.

We are not under that Law. It was "added" to the promises of God after those promises were already for some time made.

What James is telling you is that if you are going to act like you are yet under that Old Law Covenant then you had better be prepared not to violate one letter of it.

We who are in Christ live by the law of the spirit of life which is in Christ and we understand the purpose and the heavenly things foreshadowed by that Old Law Covenant. So we no longer have a need to be bound to it by letter as we now understand what was behind the letter.

That sounds foolish to one who does not yet understand it. It is part of the foolishness of the cross to the minds of those who do not yet understand.

Well put, Vengle.
 

us2are1

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That would still be judging and no one is outside of God's forgiveness. Even the very people who crucified Jesus and mocking Him were forgiven while they were still in the act of sin.
Not unless they repented and followed Christ before death.
 

goodshepard55

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Buzz...I agree that no one is outside of God's forgiveness.....I believe that we can love all, and still disagree with their sexuality and lifestyle...Show the love of Christ and it is okay to tell people that as a christian that you do not agree with them about their lifestyle or whatever.... and show why with God's Word...
 

Vashti

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If no one is outside of God's forgiveness why, then, writes that "those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God"? What for Paul writes "I warn you" to the church Galatins? (Gal 5:21).
What for Paul writes to the church Corinthians "Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves - none of these willl possess God's Kingdom? (1Cor 6:9-10)
 
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Buzzfruit

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Close, but no cookie yet. :)

He did do what you say up to a point. But His forgiveness comes to us in that we lay our flesh down and pick up the cross of Christ and begin following after him.

That would not be possible without the Holy Spirit. So if God does not impart His Spirit those who are willing to give their life for Jesus would not be willing to do that, because the mind without the Spirit of God is hostile against God.

Romans 8:5-9 (KJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[sup]6 [/sup]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[sup]7 [/sup]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[sup]8 [/sup]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[sup]9 [/sup]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


No one can accept Jesus if the person is not called by God.

John 6:44 (ESV)
[sup]44 [/sup]No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.


So who dears take cridit for repenting for it is God who grants repentance.

2 Timothy 2:25 (ESV)
[sup]25 [/sup]correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,


This means that those who God has alowed to go against Him they do that because He has not chosen to call them at the time when they were alive. But He will in the second resurrection.

Notice that in verse 5 it says the rest of the dead did not live again, until after the thousand years is finished. The part that says, this is the first resurrection is referring to those in verse 4, whom will be in the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4-6 (YLT)
[sup]4 [/sup]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;
[sup]5 [/sup]and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
[sup]6 [/sup]Happy and holy is he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


So this is how God will have mercy on those whom He allow to go against His order.......He will resurrect them and open their mind to the truth, and impart His Spirit to them.


Pay particular attention to: [sup]32 [/sup]For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The word Might was added...
 

Prentis

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If no one is outside of God's forgiveness why, then, writes that "those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God"? What for Paul writes "I warn you" to the church Galatins? (Gal 5:21).
What for Paul writes to the church Corinthians "Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves - none of these willl possess God's Kingdom? (1Cor 6:9-10)

Good post, Vashti! And good english on top of that! :)

The door is open to all to repent in this lifetime.... But mercy is not accorded apart from repentance (a contrite heart, which responds to the love of God, and loves without asking for anything in return)

[sup]13[/sup] For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
 

goodshepard55

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If no one is outside of God's forgiveness why, then, writes that "those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God"? What for Paul writes "I warn you" to the church Galatins? (Gal 5:21).
What for Paul writes to the church Corinthians "Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves - none of these willl possess God's Kingdom? (1Cor 6:9-10)


That is good scriptures, however God will forgive anyone who ask....With your last breath if you truly repent of your sins, He will open His arms and say ..Welcome home...Honestly, do some actually think that Jesus died for only a few? He die for ALL...every last person on this earth...that includes the person next door, that beats his kids or kills the neighbor...His death was so all might live, not just a few
 

marksman

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I am surprised that this topic has reached 20 pages. The original question was “is homosexuality sin?” I don’t think that any born again Christian would say no as all sex outside of marriage is sin according to scripture.

What seems to be the main area of contention is how we approach the issue. Love or judgment. Habitual sin or occasional. Sinner or saint.

1. All have sinned so we all start in the same boat.
2. All need salvation through the blood of Jesus so none can bypass that essential.
3. We are what we are by the grace of God so none can boast.
4. We are all condemned and judged by habitual sin no matter what it is.
5. We can all know forgiveness when we repent.

I love my fellowship because we all know that we are not perfect, so we make no demands of each other to be perfect. We are all a work of grace and a work in progress and we rejoice every time progress is made. We don’t have a check squad to make sure that everyone is pure as the driven snow to be acceptable.

I would have to say that I have met very few if any true Christians who are willful habitual sinners. I have known plenty who are susceptible to sin but prefer to avoid it if possible.

We are told in scripture that if we confess our sin that God is faithful and just to forgive us AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. That means we start with a clean slate every time we confess sin.

I do not believe there is such a person as a homosexual Christian or a Christian who is a homosexual as the idea makes a mockery of God’s salvation. It is like saying that there is such a thing as a murdering Christian or a thieving Christian or a fornicating Christian whom God cannot change.

What we have is a Christian who has issues to deal with and we should support them all the way as they grow and extricate themselves from that which is wrong in the sight of God (those that are mature support the weak).

When it comes to the unbeliever, we have to earn the right to speak when we are on their territory. On ours, the right to speak is already there. The key is how you say it.

Saying the right or wrong thing is down to the fact whether the Holy Spirit inhabits his temple (us) and we allow him to lead us into all truth because that is the one thing that sets people free.

No one can resist words spoken with love. The truth with love is irresistible. All those with homosexual issues have a broken image. Truth without love will damage it even further.

Please don’t try and minister to anyone with homosexual issues unless you love them and they know you love them. I can tell you now that you can’t love them unless God gives you a supernatural love for them that will take you outside of yourself.

They do a good job of condemning themselves. You don’t need to. They need to know the good news and that your love and that of God’s conquers all.
 

Buzzfruit

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Not unless they repented and followed Christ before death.


I could show you scriptures that show even if one did not repent before they died they are not condemned. The problem with most Christians is that they are selective about what part of the Bible they read. And because of that they have an incomplete understanding of God's plan.

If no one is outside of God's forgiveness why, then, writes that "those who do these things will not possess the Kingdom of God"? What for Paul writes "I warn you" to the church Galatins? (Gal 5:21).
What for Paul writes to the church Corinthians "Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts or who steal or are greedy or are drunkards or who slander others or are thieves - none of these willl possess God's Kingdom? (1Cor 6:9-10)

You need to under something, no one can repent unless God grants the individual repentance. But most pastors in Church never tell the congregation this. But when God grants them repentance they will repent.....and if they are dead? God will bring them back from the dead and grant them repentance.
 

Prentis

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I could show you scriptures that show even if one did not repent before they died they are not condemned. The problem with most Christians is that they are selective about what part of the Bible they read. And because of that they have an incomplete understanding of God's plan.



You need to under something, no one can repent unless God grants the individual repentance. But most pastors in Church never tell the congregation this. But when God grants them repentance they will repent.....and if they are dead? God will bring them back from the dead and grant them repentance.

Could we see some of those verses, Buzz? This is a friendly question, my friend, I honestly want to know. :)

I don't see the scriptures saying all will be saved. I have heard before people saying some might receive a second chance to see because they didn't have it in this life, and so far I don't deny the possibility. But that is one thing... We also know it clearly says some will rise to life, and some to condemnation, see the sheep and the goats, and that is NOT the christians. By our deeds and our acts we already choose.

The idea that we are left so incapable of doing what is right is not what we see in scriptures. Rather the scriptures show we are incapable of being righteous as God is righteous, holy as he is holy. But they also show that man, even by his conscience, may choose to do what is right in whatever power he has. The good Samaritan is not a Christian. Neither is the publican.

We so often miss the fact there are degrees of righteousness, two mainly. We may be righteous because we love our neighbor, and do what is just. We may be righteous as God is if 'it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me'. Then we are walking in the righteousness of Christ.
 

biggandyy

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Prentis, me a buzzy don 't see eye to eye on many things, but on our repentance being from God, he is correct up to this point, repentance that leads to salvation is from God exclusively. Eph 1:5 "He [God the Father] predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will" That is, it was God who selected us (individually) before the Universe was formed (see verse 4) to be saved (adoption).

If that is the case, then anything that deals with salvation be it repentance, faith, grace, or broken heartedness, originates from and has it's exclusive power coming from God and His good pleasure and will and NOT from ourselves. We are the vessels He pours His salvation into; when did a cup say to the pitcher, "Pour your drink into me" or the clay to the potter, "Form me into your likeness"? Likewise, God saves those He chooses to save according not to our works, desire, or worthiness, but according to His pleasure.
 
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