Homosexuality

Buzzfruit said:

That would not be possible without the Holy Spirit. So if God does not impart His Spirit those who are willing to give their life for Jesus would not be willing to do that, because the mind without the Spirit of God is hostile against God.

Romans 8:5-9 (KJV)
[sup]5 [/sup]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[sup]6 [/sup]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[sup]7 [/sup]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[sup]8 [/sup]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[sup]9 [/sup]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

No one can accept Jesus if the person is not called by God.

John 6:44 (ESV)
[sup]44 [/sup]No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

So who dears take cridit for repenting for it is God who grants repentance.

2 Timothy 2:25 (ESV)
[sup]25 [/sup]correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

This means that those who God has alowed to go against Him they do that because He has not chosen to call them at the time when they were alive. But He will in the second resurrection.

Notice that in verse 5 it says the rest of the dead did not live again, until after the thousand years is finished. The part that says, this is the first resurrection is referring to those in verse 4, whom will be in the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4-6 (YLT)
[sup]4 [/sup]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;
[sup]5 [/sup]and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
[sup]6 [/sup]Happy and holy is he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

So this is how God will have mercy on those whom He allow to go against His order.......He will resurrect them and open their mind to the truth, and impart His Spirit to them.




The word Might was added...

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You are making God out to be neglectful with that view. That very view has soured many of the world who have believed that to be the Christian view. That view breads Atheists.

You are wrong that repentance is God's responsibility, yet that is how you make it sound.

And God will never despice a contrite heart. He will always give that kind of heart the help it needs.

It is easy to see those scriptures that way. That ought to be the first que it is wrong reasoning; it is too easy. And why? Because the thing first observed at quick a glance is what the carnal man desires to see it say. The carnal man wants it to be easy. The carnal man wants God to pamper him and not ask much of him.

You are already equipped to see your own way through that. That view is too obviously tailored to the desire of the carnal man.

No, atheists are not made, they are born, and we are all born atheists.

biggandyy said:

No, atheists are not made, they are born, and we are all born atheists.

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Yah, I get it. :lol:

But on a serious note, I do not agree with that.

It does not take long for most young children to begin wondering about where things came from; how they even came to be. I was one that believed in God from my earliest memories. I was one that constantly pestered my mother with a ton of those questions (as I did also my father but he would not respond to me). I am talking about before I was even old enough to begin going to school. I can actually remember clear back to when I yet wore diapers.

I instinctively knew there was someone greater than us that made all those wonderful things I saw all around me. And I believe that most little children do until carnal minded men talk them out of it.

Remember how Jesus said that we must become like a little child? I believe that is a huge part of why.

biggandyy said:

Prentis, me a buzzy don 't see eye to eye on many things, but on our repentance being from God, he is correct up to this point, repentance that leads to salvation is from God exclusively. Eph 1:5 "He [God the Father] predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will" That is, it was God who selected us (individually) before the Universe was formed (see verse 4) to be saved (adoption).

If that is the case, then anything that deals with salvation be it repentance, faith, grace, or broken heartedness, originates from and has it's exclusive power coming from God and His good pleasure and will and NOT from ourselves. We are the vessels He pours His salvation into; when did a cup say to the pitcher, "Pour your drink into me" or the clay to the potter, "Form me into your likeness"? Likewise, God saves those He chooses to save according not to our works, desire, or worthiness, but according to His pleasure.

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It's a complicated subject. It is God who grants us repentance, but we can also resist the Spirit. Considering also that God desires all men to be saved, my understanding is that as he gives rain to both the wicked and the righteous, so he atleast gives a chance to all, but whether we choose it or not is up to us.

I want to make clear that we can have nothing of ourselves, I am not trying to say we have something to boast of.

But we must choose, ONCE God has shown mercy, to be faithful.

In other words, we DO choose to repent. Yes, it is God who gives us the opportunity, and he loves us first.

The question is, do we love him back?

Because he loves all, and yet not all love him!

In showing us mercy, God has put the ball in our court!

What the entire debate circles around is the nature of the word DESIRE in your reference to “…This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” - 1 Tim 2: 3, 4

Some folk consider the word "commands" as a synonym for "desires" and then begin to exegete the text with that understanding. Some will go the route you have and put 1 Tim together with Matthew 5:45. BUT Christ in the passage in Matthew isn't talking about salvation, He is talking about love towards one another. The two can't be equated in the manner you (and many) have attempted.

The word DESIRE has two shades of meaning, imperative (active) or submissive (passive). If we take the active meaning then God not only desires (commands) all to be saved but he MUST save all men. We know this to be patently false. If we take the passive connotation of the word DESIRE we get a picture of God reflected in Eze 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?"

Well biggandyy, Jesus said we must become like that child before we can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Now you can ignore that as though not being about salvation if you want.

The fact is that if a man prepares the way in his heart (just as John the Baptist preached) God will not forsake that man.

God will never despise a contrite heart. And our being able to have a contrite heart does not depend on the holy spirit. It depends upon us.

You guys have taken some scripture and perverted it if you think it does.

Vengle said:

Well biggandyy, Jesus said we must become like that child before we can enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Now you can ignore that as though not being about salvation if you want.

The fact is that if a man prepares the way in his heart (just as John the Baptist preached) God will not forsake that man.

God will never despise a contrite heart. And our being able to have a contrite heart does not depend on the holy spirit. It depends upon us.

You guys have taken some scripture and perverted it if you think it does.

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Amen!

[sup]12[/sup] Sow for yourselves righteousness;
Reap in mercy;
Break up your fallow ground,
For it is time to seek the LORD,
Till He comes and rains righteousness on you. (Hosea 10)

We sow, we break up the fallow ground, we seek... Yes, he rains the righteousness, but after we have done this. It is up to us to seek, he has given the opportunity to all. What have we done more than the world if we receive the Lord's blessings and do not learn to obey him?

Your reference is to Psalms 51:17 "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." But this passage, again, does not have salvation in mind... read verse 16 for the context: You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings." Which speaks to my Eze passage.

The confessing of sin (as David is doing in Psalm 51) is not always a plea for salvation as we picture salvation since the Cross. David IS broken hearted and contrite in spirit, but he is seeking a restoration of his relationship with God, not salvation through the Blood of Christ.

And watch with your tossing around of the claim of scriptural perversion... I can Bible-slap you upside your head and back down so hard your great grand children will be born saying "ouch". In love, of course.

biggandyy said:

Your reference is to Psalms 51:17 "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise." But this passage, again, does not have salvation in mind... read verse 16 for the context: You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings." Which speaks to my Eze passage.

The confessing of sin (as David is doing in Psalm 51) is not always a plea for salvation as we picture salvation since the Cross. David IS broken hearted and contrite in spirit, but he is seeking a restoration of his relationship with God, not salvation through the Blood of Christ.

And watch with your tossing around of the claim of scriptural perversion... I can Bible-slap you upside your head and back down so hard your great grand children will be born saying "ouch". In love, of course.

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It appears to me that you rather conveniently decide what has or has not to do with salvation as it suits your need.

No, the context does. I simply apply READING to the Bible. It isn't a hard book to read.

Salvation is a process. Unless one endures to the end, he will not be saved. Thus everything matters.

To make salvation a 'ticket punching' event is simply a convenient way to put the dust under the rug, and ignore the need for growth and perseverance!

No, salvation is instantaneous, it is sanctification that is a process.

We have been saved from Egypt (instantaneous), are being saved from our old ways, and will be saved from the power of death.

Salvation is not a one time thing. Salvation is not an event. Salvation is Christ himself. Otherwise we make something else to be salvation than God himself! But HE is our tower of refuge, our salvation, and our strength. We are not safe because we once knew him, we are safe if we are in him, abiding.

Being saved from drowning is an example of being rescued.

Being saved from our sins is a theological term and is applied only with regards to the Blood of Christ.

The two examples (Egyptian rescue vs Salvation from sin) are two entirely different concepts though they share the same word in English.

biggandyy said:

No, salvation is instantaneous, it is sanctification that is a process.

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If God sows good seed into the furtile soil of your heart and you then turn to loving to bring weeds into it you will then see how instantaneous your salvation is or isn't.

biggandyy said:

Being saved from drowning is an example of being rescued.

Being saved from our sins is a theological term and is applied only with regards to the Blood of Christ.

The two examples (Egyptian rescue vs Salvation from sin) are two entirely different concepts though they share the same word in English.

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[sup]9[/sup] For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
[sup]10[/sup] Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; [sup]11[/sup] for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Well, clearly, being washed by the blood is not the end, but the beginning.

By this we are saved from our old life, from our corruption, and given a new nature. But that is only the beginning of our race... We could end up as the unfaithful servant!

Saved means just what you said, rescued, and so we have been from. Now we are to be saved to. Saved from Egypt, and into the promised Land. How many made it? 2.

So you can lose your salvation?

biggandyy said:

So you can lose your salvation?

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You don't own salvation to start with! Christ himself is salvation... The idea of 'losing your salvation' is already built on the false premise that we 'own salvation'.

It is not us who accept Christ, but Christ who accepts us, if we are faithful servants.

The gift is the grace, freely given to those who turn to him. Salvation is Christ, and we are safe only within him. Anything else loses the necessity of our abiding in him.

So we don't know if we are really saved until we die?

Does that bother you? :blink:

Matthew 16:25
For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

The idea of being 'really saved' is once again based on the false premise that we somehow are or aren't. Being 'saved' cannot be a status. I was saved means I was rescued... But that does not speak for the present of the future.

Again, the false idea of a 'once done deal' is on display. Rather God seeks to save us to the uttermost.