How does God Create Evil

Episkopos · Jan 17, 2022

robert derrick said:
I’ll stick with Gods doctrine! “God created evil”.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

How does God create evil? Did He create the devil evil? Does He create evil people?

How does He create darkness? Does He create the children of darkness?

God created evil by giving both orders of creation (angels and men) free will and then having them interact with each other. It is in the interaction that we get temptations of a higher order...hence evil.

Oceanprayers · Jan 17, 2022

Wrangler said:
Yes but do you get the impression in reading the posts that there is universal agreement that God does create evil?

What bears weight? Post opinions? Some diving to the depths of wicked-speak to get their point across? Or taking God at his word?

Ziggy · Jan 17, 2022

robert derrick said:
I believe it is clear, as you show here, that God created evil by first creating creatures with free will to choose to obey God or do evil.

He creates evil by creating with free will, but He does not do evil Himself.

Creating something and doing something is not the same thing.

And for this cause was the serpent created.

The serpent created himself, when he was willing to do iniquity, but was created by God perfectly as Lucifer. Any of the three promoted archangels could have done iniquity, but it was only Lucifer who did so.

God created the possibility of doing evil with the angels first, and then allowed the serpent to tempt mankind.

And he was created the Light of the world.

Nowhere does Scripture say He created the Light of the world.

The Word was not created by God, but was with God and was God.

God said, Let there be light.
Without the word there would be no light.
are the word and the light, one?
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet...
And the lamb is the glory of God.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

evil, darkness, an unknowing, ignorance, sleep, death..
good, light, knowing, wisdom, awake, life...

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

and God divided the light from the darkness:

Jhn 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Jhn 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
Jhn 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam = Day Eve = Night

Know ye not that I must be about my father's business?
How is it ye don't know these things....

The world has fallen into that state of darkness which covered the earth from the beginning.
An awakening is coming and is already here.
Let your Light so shine, dear Lord.

History repeats itself.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

Genesis and John and Revelations... all new beginnings. World without end. Amen.

Evil will exist as long as we give into it.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These are those that sit in great darkness and void which cover the earth.. until we all come to the knowledge of truth.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It may take a few rounds to get there.
I'm not sure how many times we've come round so far.

No one knows how many times the earth has been recreated. We only know the earth we reside in now.
And I have a feeling this one will have a new beginning in the not so distant future.
What an awesome time to be alive.
We will have to fall into utter darkness, utter lawlessness, utter disregard for life and love and mercy.
And then the Light will shine again. Brighter than a noonday sun seven times it's strength.

Evil has a purpose. We may not understand it fully. But I believe without evil, there would be no hope.
There would be no need for charity. Nothing to compare what is good and what is bad.

And God saw that the light was good.
Interesting statement there..

Where was the light before God said....
I believe it was in himself, and he shared himself with the world.
Amen.
HUGS

Wrangler · Jan 17, 2022

Oceanprayers said:
What bears weight? Post opinions? Some diving to the depths of wicked-speak to get their point across? Or taking God at his word?

It depends. It depends on how receptive the audience is to the options. St Paul did not talk about being 'all things to all people' because one approach always worked the best with all people.

Oceanprayers · Jan 17, 2022

Wrangler said:
It depends. It depends on how receptive the audience is to the options. St Paul did not talk about being 'all things to all people' because one approach always worked the best with all people.

It depends?
I'd submit that Paul's observation is irrelevant to the question posed.

For me it's a simple answer. Either God is sovereign creator of all that exists (I believe this) or he's not.

quietthinker · Jan 17, 2022

robert derrick said:
Actually I'd like as many of these from you as you have. It's how I became convinced the Bible is all true without contradiction, and so there must be One God guiding all prophets and apostles for thousands of years to not contradict one another. That isn't possible for man to do on his own.

And so, God is light does cannot mean He cannot also create darkness, except they contradict one another.

A contradiction is only when there is no possible explanation to resolve the two, and so the task to show by Scripture how He that is Light can create darkness. If there is any sensible possibility of Scripture to resolve them, then there is no contradiction of scripture.

Whether one chooses to accept that possibility is not the final matter, but only if there is a reasonable explanation and doubt abo0ut it, such as in a court of law, any reasonable doubt is necessary and acceptable to find the defendant not guilty, which in this case is Scripture being accused by you of being a contradictory lie in any part:

Inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

Believers ought be able to stand in defense of the gospel of the Scriptures, because if the Scripture is false in any detail, then there is no gospel of Scripture to trust in for our soul's sake. (Which of course makes it all the more confusing for them that claim their soul is saved by a gospel they also say is tainted with error by Scriptureal error. I.e. it's not about salvation of the soul for them, but only about intellectual argument about a book called the Bible, which they reject as being truly God's word, because they reject becoming truly obedient to it.)

He formed the light of nature, and created the darkness of nature thereby.

He that is the Light of truth will not create the darkness of a lie:

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Not believing the truth is to believe a lie, which is evil, and to be damned for it:

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1. Scripture does not say God created light: He formed the light, even as He is Light and is the form and shape of Godis LightThe question is not about God saying He is Light and He is darkness, which is a lie, but rather can the true Light create darkness, and if so how.

The answer is simple, by shining the Light, the darkness is created that refuses the light, if not for the light shining, no darkness would be created at all.

God does not 'create' light, but is Light and commanded His Light to shine out of the darkness:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God created the possibility for darkness and evil, when He created all things for the good and His beings with free will: by allowing them to do so by choice, he created evil. Otherwise, He needed create by force and power over all things to choose Him only, which He rejected to do, because He is love.

Keep in mind, all of this would be irrelevant if Adam had not sinned.

I believe you sum it up most succinctly here: If not for free will in God's creation, there would be no evil created, which God therefore created by creating with free will.

However, it began with Lucifer, not Adam. It was the devil that tempted Adam, without which Adam would not have sinned, because sin only comes by temptation. (James 1)

Lucifer was not tempted by any, but simply was found with iniquity.

We know God creates and sends lying spirits for the foolish to destroy themselves with. So perhaps with creation of the angels, God created evil to test them.

God created iniquity, to see who would do it.

Serving and obeying God is an active participation willingly from the heart; therefore, resistance against disobeying is necessary to prove the heart: We don't obey God without enduring temptation to disobey Him and sin.

God created the angels and also creates evil to test them?

The point being that the one who knows the truth is the one that can best make a lie.

Creating evil, iniquity, and lies to test His creatures is not the same as being an evil doer, worker of iniquity, and a liar.

It's also not the same as tempting any to sin, because temptation is to actually invite sin, to try and place lust in the heart.

God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil to test man, but did not invite man to eat of it, He did not tempt man to eat it, but rather commanded plainly not to.

ALso, perhaps the one thing seen in all of Scripture that God has made something impossible for Himself to do is to lie, the one thing we can say God cannot do:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.

God can create a lying spirit, but God cannot lie.

I'm sorry, I can't take this seriously!

Robert Gwin · Jan 18, 2022

robert derrick said:
Actually I'd like as many of these from you as you have. It's how I became convinced the Bible is all true without contradiction, and so there must be One God guiding all prophets and apostles for thousands of years to not contradict one another. That isn't possible for man to do on his own.

And so, God is light does cannot mean He cannot also create darkness, except they contradict one another.

A contradiction is only when there is no possible explanation to resolve the two, and so the task to show by Scripture how He that is Light can create darkness. If there is any sensible possibility of Scripture to resolve them, then there is no contradiction of scripture.

Whether one chooses to accept that possibility is not the final matter, but only if there is a reasonable explanation and doubt abo0ut it, such as in a court of law, any reasonable doubt is necessary and acceptable to find the defendant not guilty, which in this case is Scripture being accused by you of being a contradictory lie in any part:

Inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.

Believers ought be able to stand in defense of the gospel of the Scriptures, because if the Scripture is false in any detail, then there is no gospel of Scripture to trust in for our soul's sake. (Which of course makes it all the more confusing for them that claim their soul is saved by a gospel they also say is tainted with error by Scriptureal error. I.e. it's not about salvation of the soul for them, but only about intellectual argument about a book called the Bible, which they reject as being truly God's word, because they reject becoming truly obedient to it.)

He formed the light of nature, and created the darkness of nature thereby.

He that is the Light of truth will not create the darkness of a lie:

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Not believing the truth is to believe a lie, which is evil, and to be damned for it:

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1. Scripture does not say God created light: He formed the light, even as He is Light and is the form and shape of Godis LightThe question is not about God saying He is Light and He is darkness, which is a lie, but rather can the true Light create darkness, and if so how.

The answer is simple, by shining the Light, the darkness is created that refuses the light, if not for the light shining, no darkness would be created at all.

God does not 'create' light, but is Light and commanded His Light to shine out of the darkness:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

God created the possibility for darkness and evil, when He created all things for the good and His beings with free will: by allowing them to do so by choice, he created evil. Otherwise, He needed create by force and power over all things to choose Him only, which He rejected to do, because He is love.

Keep in mind, all of this would be irrelevant if Adam had not sinned.

I believe you sum it up most succinctly here: If not for free will in God's creation, there would be no evil created, which God therefore created by creating with free will.

However, it began with Lucifer, not Adam. It was the devil that tempted Adam, without which Adam would not have sinned, because sin only comes by temptation. (James 1)

Lucifer was not tempted by any, but simply was found with iniquity.

We know God creates and sends lying spirits for the foolish to destroy themselves with. So perhaps with creation of the angels, God created evil to test them.

God created iniquity, to see who would do it.

Serving and obeying God is an active participation willingly from the heart; therefore, resistance against disobeying is necessary to prove the heart: We don't obey God without enduring temptation to disobey Him and sin.

God created the angels and also creates evil to test them?

The point being that the one who knows the truth is the one that can best make a lie.

Creating evil, iniquity, and lies to test His creatures is not the same as being an evil doer, worker of iniquity, and a liar.

It's also not the same as tempting any to sin, because temptation is to actually invite sin, to try and place lust in the heart.

God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil to test man, but did not invite man to eat of it, He did not tempt man to eat it, but rather commanded plainly not to.

ALso, perhaps the one thing seen in all of Scripture that God has made something impossible for Himself to do is to lie, the one thing we can say God cannot do:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us.

God can create a lying spirit, but God cannot lie.

I will simply sum it up, I agree that man has to be tested, but being created in God's image is not evil in my opinion. Why man had to be tested I am unaware, but I do understand the issue and that both God's have the stage in front of many witnesses as to who has the right to rule. That may explain the need for the test. At any rate it is simply what we have to deal with now. Man will have to undergo another similar test before being granted eternal life, that is the releasing of satan after the thousand years. I do not consider this evil, but necessary for the long range benefit of mankind. If that makes any sense to you Rob

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How does God Create Evil

Episkopos

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Oceanprayers

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Ziggy

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Wrangler

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Oceanprayers

Active Member

quietthinker

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Robert Gwin

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