Salvation is by Grace through Faith.

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Ferris Bueller

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Nothing But The Blood” ....Nothing.Add to that at your own risk.
Well, we are told to add to our faith...

"5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love." 2 Peter 1:5-6

Just not for the purpose of earning a justification that can only be secured through faith apart from works.
 

Bob Carabbio

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Well, we are told to add to our faith...

"5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love." 2 Peter 1:5-6

Just not for the purpose of earning a justification that can only be secured through faith apart from works.

Right!!! The term is "Progressive Sanctification" - maturing in the Faith. When a person is FIRST SAVED, they're pretty IGNORANT, since the "Kingdom of God" had been invisible up to that point. THEN we "Take HIS YOKE UPON US", and begin to "Learn of HIM".
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The "synergy" is paradoxical.
Example: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one entity. but three separate entities at all times , all the time.
Example: Jesus was 100% man and 100% God at all times, in all respects, in every way. Christianity requires this going out the gate.
Jesus taught.
Example: 1) You live by dying, you live and not live at the same time.
2) The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. You're first and last at the same time.
3) If you want to be chief, be a servant.
4) You go up and down at the same time.

In the Greek language all these examples are specific, opposite things that are happening simultaneously. These are all paradoxes, Gods frame of understand. Our frame of understanding can't accept these truths. But if we don't acknowledge them, we have no chance to understand Gods word.

Definition of a paradox.
A paradox embraces two things, mutually contradictory, exclusive of one another, but concomitant. Existing at the same time, merged together, both true, yet entirely opposite. The deeper truths of God are all paradoxes.

Not having an understanding of this creates most of the division between the called out ones. We tend to choose one side of the paradoxical truth and throw darts at the other side.

I do not agree with any of this at all.

synergy - "the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects." Oxford Dictionary

Part of this definition is "....a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects." God's grace separate from man's faith cannot save. Likewise man's faith apart from God's grace cannot save. It takes a "combined effect" of BOTH man's faith and God's grace to be saved for faith alone cannot save as grace alone cannot save. Grace and obedient faith are not opposites of each other, they are not antagonistic to each other, they are not exclusive of each other, they are not mutually contradictory for they go together like a hand in glove. Both grace and faith both save, Eph 2:8, hence they work together in bringing about man's salvation. Obedient faith is necessary to be righteous (Romans 6:16) but grace is necessary because man's obedience will not be sinlessly perfect, so grace fills the gap between God and man sin can create. No one's obedience is going to be perfect to merit salvation so no one can boost about their obedience for even after one has done all that was commanded him he is still an unprofitable servant (Luke 17:10) in need of grace. Yet it is still man's duty to obey God's commands. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

Therefore God's grace does not exclude God's NT law and man's requirement and accountability in obeying God's NT law.
Are We Under Law or Grace?
 

BloodBought 1953

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Well, we are told to add to our faith...

"5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love." 2 Peter 1:5-6

Just not for the purpose of earning a justification that can only be secured through faith apart from works.


You know me well enough to know that I have no problem with these wise and Biblical types of Additions—— I am talking about “Additions” that are tacked onto to obtaining Salvation and/or keeping it ......All of those “ Yeah, sure Jesus Saves—- BUT!”......... it’s everything on this side of “ BUT” that I am concerned with , such as “ Sure, Jesus Saves —- * BUT* ya gotta make sure you that there are no unrepented sins on your record” Or “ Certainly Jesus Saves, * BUT* not if you commit a Willful Sin!” This Second caveat being due to the common, inexcusable misunderstand of Hebrews 10...... do a little research, or better yet ,read that scary verse IN CONTEXT —- read the Nine verses that precede Chapter Ten.....No sin is being discussed other than the sin of going back to Temple Sacrifices for the remission of sins and Rejecting the One Time and All- Sufficient sacrifice if Jesus in the Cross —— there remains “ NO Sacrifice for sin” anymore other than the new one that Paul is trying to instill upon these Legalistic Jews and their Old Covenant mind- set.....THAT is the context and “ Text without CONtext is error”...... try to understand that.....otherwise you can make the Bible say anything....
 

Faither

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I do not agree with any of this at all.

synergy - "the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects." Oxford Dictionary

Part of this definition is "....a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects." God's grace separate from man's faith cannot save. Likewise man's faith apart from God's grace cannot save. It takes a "combined effect" of BOTH man's faith and God's grace to be saved for faith alone cannot save as grace alone cannot save. Grace and obedient faith are not opposites of each other, they are not antagonistic to each other, they are not exclusive of each other, they are not mutually contradictory for they go together like a hand in glove. Both grace and faith both save, Eph 2:8, hence they work together in bringing about man's salvation. Obedient faith is necessary to be righteous (Romans 6:16) but grace is necessary because man's obedience will not be sinlessly perfect, so grace fills the gap between God and man sin can create. No one's obedience is going to be perfect to merit salvation so no one can boost about their obedience for even after one has done all that was commanded him he is still an unprofitable servant (Luke 17:10) in need of grace. Yet it is still man's duty to obey God's commands. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

Therefore God's grace does not exclude God's NT law and man's requirement and accountability in obeying God's NT law.
Are We Under Law or Grace?
Don"t agree that the relationship is "synergy", the deeper aspects are paradoxical as per the Greek texts, taught by a gifted teacher, and discerned by His Spirit.
 

Ferris Bueller

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I am concerned with , such as “ Sure, Jesus Saves —- * BUT* ya gotta make sure you that there are no unrepented sins on your record” Or “ Certainly Jesus Saves, * BUT* not if you commit a Willful Sin!”
The person who has unrepentant sin/willful sin in their life has to do a deep dive to see if they're really in the faith or not, because those are the danger signs that you're in unbelief. And no unbelieving person will be saved when Jesus comes back.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Certainly Jesus Saves, * BUT* not if you commit a Willful Sin!” This Second caveat being due to the common, inexcusable misunderstand of Hebrews 10...... do a little research, or better yet ,read that scary verse IN CONTEXT —- read the Nine verses that precede Chapter Ten.....No sin is being discussed other than the sin of going back to Temple Sacrifices for the remission of sins and Rejecting the One Time and All- Sufficient sacrifice if Jesus in the Cross
What does it matter why one is purposely going back to their sin? It's unbelief either way. No sacrifice for unrepentant unbelief exists. That's why that person has nothing left to look forward to but the wrath of God, not salvation from the wrath of God. No unbeliever will be saved when Jesus comes back.
 

Faither

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What does it matter why one is purposely going back to their sin? It's unbelief either way. No sacrifice for unrepentant unbelief exists. That's why that person has nothing left to look forward to but the wrath of God, not salvation from the wrath of God. No unbeliever will be saved when Jesus comes back.

Trying to shine light on the fact there is no such thing as "a believer" in the Greek language, there also is no such thing as an "unbeliever".
There is only Pisteuo, "a continually surrendered life, and living a life inspired by such surrender". This is faithing towards God.
And there's Apisteuo, surrendering our lives to anything other than Jesus. This is faith away from God.
 

Episkopos

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Real grace and faith bring real power. Men have reduced grace and faith to a religious formula that has no power.

Both grace and faith are of the eternal kind if they save you. We are saved away from the flesh and into eternal life and reality by grace through faith. But many will claim the formula without the slightest idea of what it means. Why? Because it satisfies a religious need in the survival mechanism of the outer man.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Don"t agree that the relationship is "synergy", the deeper aspects are paradoxical as per the Greek texts, taught by a gifted teacher, and discerned by His Spirit.
I see this "paradoxical" idea is something that you came up with yourself.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

These 2 verses do not contradict each other. In one sense God gives man a new hear and spirit (Eze 26) and man gives himself a new heart and spirit (Eze 18).

On one hand God does not decide Himself which men will or will not get a new heart and spirit for that makes God culpable for the lost and a respecter of persons. God does not force a new heart and spirit upon men against their will. On the other hand man cannot make himself a new heart and spirit apart from God.

So there is a synergy taking place between Eze 36 and Eze 18. God instructs men in His word in how to have a new heart and spirit and those men who obey that word then are then making themselves a new heart and spirit. So God is 'giving' those who obey His word a new heart and spirit for those men choose to obey God's instructions. God does not give a new heart and spirit to those who will not obey, who will not cast away all their transgressions.
So there is no "paradox" here nor is there any Calvinistic monergism but a necessity of it taking BOTH God and man for man to have a new heart and spirit.....neither 'God alone' or 'man alone' can produce a new heart and spirit within man.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Trying to shine light on the fact there is no such thing as "a believer" in the Greek language, there also is no such thing as an "unbeliever".
There is only Pisteuo, "a continually surrendered life, and living a life inspired by such surrender". This is faithing towards God.
And there's Apisteuo, surrendering our lives to anything other than Jesus. This is faith away from God.
James 2: 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Pisteuo is the word used here. Neither of these people have completely surrendered nor do they have a life inspired by surrender.

just saying
 
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Faither

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Real grace and faith bring real power. Men have reduced grace and faith to a religious formula that has no power.

Both grace and faith are of the eternal kind if they save you. We are saved away from the flesh and into eternal life and reality by grace through faith. But many will claim the formula without the slightest idea of what it means. Why? Because it satisfies a religious need in the survival mechanism of the outer man.

Our limited framework of understanding reduces salvation to a process in my mind. Things that MUST happen, and happen in the right order. Open to any better suggestions on that.
I see this "paradoxical" idea is something that you came up with yourself.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

These 2 verses do not contradict each other. In one sense God gives man a new hear and spirit (Eze 26) and man gives himself a new heart and spirit (Eze 18).

On one hand God does not decide Himself which men will or will not get a new heart and spirit for that makes God culpable for the lost and a respecter of persons. God does not force a new heart and spirit upon men against their will. On the other hand man cannot make himself a new heart and spirit apart from God.

So there is a synergy taking place between Eze 36 and Eze 18. God instructs men in His word in how to have a new heart and spirit and those men who obey that word then are then making themselves a new heart and spirit. So God is 'giving' those who obey His word a new heart and spirit for those men choose to obey God's instructions. God does not give a new heart and spirit to those who will not obey, who will not cast away all their transgressions.
So there is no "paradox" here nor is there any Calvinistic monergism but a necessity of it taking BOTH God and man for man to have a new heart and spirit.....neither 'God alone' or 'man alone' can produce a new heart and spirit within man.

Jesus was 100% man, a !00% God at all times all the time. Christianity requires this paradox must be accepted going out the gate.

this is a fact, not something made up.
 
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Faither

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James 2: 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

Pisteuo is the word used here. Neither of these people have completely surrendered nor do they have a life inspired by surrender.

just saying

Yes they have if you apply the correct Greek definition. The Greek is the most precise language on the planet, the English not the worst but close to it.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Yes they have if you apply the correct Greek definition. The Greek is the most precise language on the planet, the English not the worst but close to it.
um sorry

But these people had no work. that is why James called their faith dead.

And are you saying demons have completely surrendered to God? Why are they demons (fallen angels) and not true angels then?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Trying to shine light on the fact there is no such thing as "a believer" in the Greek language, there also is no such thing as an "unbeliever".
There is only Pisteuo, "a continually surrendered life, and living a life inspired by such surrender". This is faithing towards God.
And there's Apisteuo, surrendering our lives to anything other than Jesus. This is faith away from God.
I tried to explain some of what you're saying here to BOL. In the Greek there is pistis and pisteuo, and any English connotation that we want to connect to those words has to come from the context those Greek words are used in, not from the word itself, as we would do in our English language. Because we use more than a single noun and a single verb to communicate the concept of faith according to the connotation we wish to express. Connotation has to come from context in the Greek language.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Yes they have if you apply the correct Greek definition.
James 2:19 is a perfect example of what I'm saying.
Pisteuo does not, in and of itself, carry the connotation of what is being believed and if it is salvific or not. You have to get that from the context 'pisteuo' is being used in. In the case of the demons, pisteuo means to believe (pisteuo) there is only one God. There is no salvific power in that believing. In the case of justified people, it means to believe (pisteuo) the blood of Christ forgives all sin and makes you righteous. Obviously, that believing does have salvific power.
 
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Faither

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James 2:19 is a perfect example of what I'm saying.
Pisteuo does not, in and of itself, carry the connotation of what is being believed and if it is salvific or not. You have to get that from the context 'pisteuo' is being used in. In the case of the demons, pisteuo means to believe (pisteuo) there is only one God. There is no salvific power in that believing. In the case of justified people, it means to believe (pisteuo) the blood of Christ forgives all sin and makes you righteous. Obviously, that believing does have salvific power.

There is no such thing as "only believing" in the Greek language.

Strong Greek dictionary gives the disclaimer, "pisteuo means not just to believe."

Context, gender, tenses, doesn't change the core definition of the Greek word Pisteuo. Only the one trying to translate pisteuo into the English language did that. Pisteuo is an act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. 3 specific parts. They could only communicate one of them.
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Wasn't he the guy who had a bunch of hot nude chicks riding around on horses, lol? (Not kidding.)


The horses were the only things that were nude......sorry if the Truth disappoints.....people with limited insight or intelligence were always trying to smear his name.....I see it still continues....Smart people liked him—- smart people “ got” him......
 

michaelvpardo

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Faith is just trusting the Lord, it seems to me. It applies to all aspects of our lives.

The church must use judgment - it musn't presume the Lord approves of all its whims. If Pastor John Doe wants to build a gold temple on the top of a mountain, and proposes the church goes deep into debt to pay for the temple, one can't presume the Lord will provide the money to pay back the loan.
This is true, but it needs to be qualified. Our faith in Christ should include trusting in His promises, believing His word and praying/acting accordingly. I don't mean that our faith is qualified by our works but we should be seeking God's will and not our own.
Janis Joplin sang a song back when I was a kid that had the lyrics "O Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz, my friends all drive Porches, I must make amends."
If she believed that the Lord would do this, it might be called faith, but the Lord never promised anyone a Mercedes Benz. The scriptures say that His promises are all yes, but He isn't obliged to say yes to anything that He hasn't promised in His word. The power of faith is in prayer according to His will.
Even believing God for renewal in Christ is a matter of believing His word and praying according to His promises.
 
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michaelvpardo

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The "synergy" is paradoxical.
Example: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one entity. but three separate entities at all times , all the time.
Example: Jesus was 100% man and 100% God at all times, in all respects, in every way. Christianity requires this going out the gate.
Jesus taught.
Example: 1) You live by dying, you live and not live at the same time.
2) The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. You're first and last at the same time.
3) If you want to be chief, be a servant.
4) You go up and down at the same time.

In the Greek language all these examples are specific, opposite things that are happening simultaneously. These are all paradoxes, Gods frame of understand. Our frame of understanding can't accept these truths. But if we don't acknowledge them, we have no chance to understand Gods word.

Definition of a paradox.
A paradox embraces two things, mutually contradictory, exclusive of one another, but concomitant. Existing at the same time, merged together, both true, yet entirely opposite. The deeper truths of God are all paradoxes.

Not having an understanding of this creates most of the division between the called out ones. We tend to choose one side of the paradoxical truth and throw darts at the other side.
I'm not at all familiar with the original languages though I have been woken up in the middle of the night to pull my Strong's Concordance of the shelf and look at the full range of meaning of a word with a more specific translation.
I've never even thought of scripture in terms of paradox, and yet I agree with everything that you've said.
Welcome to the forum brother.