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Ferris Bueller

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Is that how Enoch got translated? He walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.
I don't recall Enoch being under the law.

If he had been, he would have been required by law to maintain various separations and distances from God. That illustrates that you can not come close to God by relating to him through law. Only by relating to God through grace by faith can a person draw near to God - nearness that the law did not allow a person to experience. That's why I don't try to base my relationship to God through proper and accurate ceremonial laws. And that includes any kind of ceremonial law or authorized and accepted procedure of worship in any church. See, you don't have to be an old covenant law keeper to be guilty of relating to God through ceremonies and various liturgical procedures instead of through grace. In fact, this is one of my life verses:

"17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval." Romans 14:17-18
The 'eating and drinking' being the various religious ceremonial protocols that men use to approach God and gain His acceptance and approval. No, God is not looking for that. What you bring to God that pleases him, and the people around you, is the righteousness, peace and joy of the Holy Spirit. He gave the Spirit to us. We give the Spirit back to him in the form of our transformed lives of righteous character expressed in all kinds of works of love. That is the worship that pleases God and that he is looking for. And that is the worship that will set your heart at peace with him, knowing you belong to him and are ready to meet him when he returns (1 John 4:17-18) :).
 

Brakelite

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I don't recall Enoch being under the law.

If he had been, he would have been required by law to maintain various separations and distances from God. That illustrates that you can not come close to God by relating to him through law. Only by relating to God through grace by faith can a person draw near to God - nearness that the law did not allow a person to experience. That's why I don't try to base my relationship to God through proper and accurate ceremonial laws. And that includes any kind of ceremonial law or authorized and accepted procedure of worship in any church. See, you don't have to be an old covenant law keeper to be guilty of relating to God through ceremonies and various liturgical procedures instead of through grace. In fact, this is one of my life verses:

"17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval." Romans 14:17-18
The 'eating and drinking' being the various religious ceremonial protocols that men use to approach God and gain His acceptance and approval. No, God is not looking for that. What you bring to God that pleases him, and the people around you, is the righteousness, peace and joy of the Holy Spirit. He gave the Spirit to us. We give the Spirit back to him in the form of our transformed lives of righteous character expressed in all kinds of works of love. That is the worship that pleases God and that he is looking for. And that is the worship that will set your heart at peace with him, knowing you belong to him and are ready to meet him when he returns (1 John 4:17-18) :).
It seems you are making this up as you go. You bring one objection, is answered, you respond by ignoring the answer and go off on a tangent somewhere else.
Abraham was a friend of God. Just like us.
God accounted Abraham as righteous. Just like us.
And
KJV Genesis 26:5
5 because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Just like us.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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The "law was changed" only in that the physical rituals of typical sacrifices are no longer necessary now that the antitypical Sacrifice has come. This ceremonial law still remains as part of Scripture as a schoolmaster and this does not include any of the ten commandments.

Yes, yours is the Revelation 3:17 excuse for the Sabbath DAY of the Lord JESUS.
 

Ferris Bueller

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You bring one objection, is answered, you respond by ignoring the answer and go off on a tangent somewhere else.
All of you have been blowing off my answers to your sabbath keeping. I'm fine with that. I just want you to know why I don't feel compelled to keep a literal sabbath. You don't have to agree with what I say. And, I've answered all of your contentions as far as I know. But if I haven't, bring them one at a time and I'll show you why I don't accept it.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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It seems you are making this up as you go.
No, God taught me these truths many years ago. It transformed my Christian life from relating to him through accurate and approved church activities and theological constructs to relating to him through the Spirit expressed in the fruit of the Spirit.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Abraham was a friend of God. Just like us.
God accounted Abraham as righteous. Just like us.
And
KJV Genesis 26:5
5 because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. Just like us.
Is your point that everyone was under the law before the law was given?
 

Ferris Bueller

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What artificial, PROUD and ghastly comparison or differentiation...
Isaiah 1:13

It's the difference between your accurate and approved ceremonial observances, and iniquity. God prefers that you repent of your iniquities over and above your accurate and approved ceremonial observances. The order of import is clearly defined in that passage, and others.
 
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Christ4Me

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NEW AND IMPROVED??

When I first started this thread, the comments quickly turned to contentious debate, as could be expected. I got symptoms of COVID-19 Sunday evening and, along with my daughter (who works in a hospital ICU), I got tested first thing Monday morning, and today (Jan 18), we both received positive results, so I've been thinking about a lot of things. And I've been thinking about ways to turn the tide of contention in this thread. I found the answer in the title of the thread itself:

GIFT

I know I can't keep people from arguing. But I can say that God literally said, Himself:

Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. (Ezekiel 20:12)

And the question in the thread title is:

Is this a gift you could value?

Considering why God gave them the sabbaths, not just the weekly sabbath, but the annual sabbath aka the Passover, I do discern that the Jews doing this was to serve as a sign to the world; non-Jews, that the non-Jews of the world might know that He is the Lord.

God also gave "other" things like the plagues in Egypt but I doubt the Egyptians saw that as a gift, but they served a sign that God was with the Hebrew slaves in having Moses asking the Pharoah to let them go.

The free gift of eternal life by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ means no strings attached.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

When it comes to a man's covenant; no one can add or take away from. So it is the same with God's New Covenant where we also cannot tack our filthy rags of righteousness under the law to it as if that is how we gained our justification with His New Covenant.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

I know you said you do not keep the sabbath day for justification or to save yourself, because you believe you are saved, but you should ask other sabbath day keepers if they are really like-minded with you on this truth, because they are believers that keep the sabbath day for justification.

Makes you wonder how they can repent and prove they have repented if they keep on keeping the sabbath day. They would have to honor Him on Sunday to be former sabbath day keepers to prove they really believe that they are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, the actual free gift of eternal life.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Depends. What do you mean by the expression, "under the law?"
I mean, in covenant with God under the law of Moses.
That is where the restrictions for contact with God were placed on the people of God.
Those restrictions are removed in Christ.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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The 'eating and drinking' being the various religious ceremonial protocols that men use to approach God and gain His acceptance and approval.

False. Colossians 2 and many other Scriptures define the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" - BOTH spiritual and practical "according to the LITERAL AS WELL AS LIVING WORD OF GOD". It never was any different. And your vain blowing bubbles with spirituality is as enduring or effective as a three year old's soap bubbles blown on Nagasaki and Hiroshima or Sodom and Gomorra for fire from heaven on sin and sinners.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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272165022_10209870664239512_2264384498962799589_n.jpg
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Colossians 2 and many other Scriptures define the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" - BOTH spiritual and practical "according to the LITERAL AS WELL AS LIVING WORD OF GOD".
Then why would Paul say the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking if he was talking about "the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" BOTH spiritual and practical"? The kingdom of God is not about Christ???
 

Ferris Bueller

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When a person believes in Jesus they enter into His rest. That is the rest that remains for Jews living in the rest that Joshua gave the people of God from their wanderings in the desert. And just as there were those Israelites who resisted entering into Joshua's rest, so there are those Israelites resisting entering into Christ's rest. They need to learn from the failure of their ancestors who refused to enter into their rest.
 

Curtis

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Those that died didn't die because of the law. Death is the wages of sin. Sin is transgression of the law. Jesus died because of the sin that was placed on Him, He rose because He didn't sin personally.
It ain't the law's fault you die. It's yours.
Can you test for the choir that Christians are not under that law, but have died to the law died to the law, and if you notice or pay attention, it says the check amount was in the wall brought death in the old covenant, but the law of the spirit in the new covenant brings life.

The old covenant was given, and 3000 Israelites died. The new covenant began in Acts 2, and 3000 Souls were added to the church, and born again.

Because the law kills, but the spirit gives life.

Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

You obviously missed the whole point the Scriptures make.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Then why would Paul say the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking if he was talking about "the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" BOTH spiritual and practical"? The kingdom of God is not about Christ???

Your last supposedly, question: Don't be such an outright hypocrite.

Then <why would Paul say the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking if he was talking about "the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" BOTH spiritual and practical"?>

Because Paul in Romans 14,15 was not <talking (writing) about the "eating and drinking : of CHRIST" BOTH spiritual and practical in Colossians 2, but about "food and drink" that "is NOT the Kingdom of God", not "charity", not "spiritual", but was "doubtful disputation" of the presumptuous "strong" and the just as presumptuous "weak". Two Scriptures, two Contexts, two Subjects which you DELIBERATELY CONFUSE and ILLEGITIMATELY identify.

You are no student of God's Word, you are FAKE! And you do your selfie with the LAW! Reckon you say has no power.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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there are those Israelites resisting entering into Christ's rest. They need to learn from the failure of their ancestors who refused to enter into their rest.

Now what about them heathen refusing and failing to learn from them old-timers Jews to enter into their rest? <THEIR rest>? eish eish eish
 
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