When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Jesus explained this event as something that is not notable when it happens because then we would be able to tell when someone is born again of the Spirit.

Jesus is answering Nicodemus's question as to when and how one is born again of the Spirit which is after His ascension which is also after His crucifixion so that whenever anyone believes in Him, even in His name, are saved and have everlasting life.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This is why His disciples were not born again of the Spirit until Pentecost when Jesus had ascended into Heaven.

So if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, & that God has raised Him from the dead, you are born again of the Spirit for why you are saved. Your believing in Him is a work of God too.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The very fact that you believe shows the great length the Father has done in drawing you unto the Son to reveal His Son to you so your believing in Him is the work of the Father!!!

PinSeeker · Jan 20, 2022

And...

"I am sure of this, that He Who began a good work in you will..." ~ WILL ~ "...bring it to completion at the day of Christ." (Philippians 1:6)

And...

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him (we) also, when (we) heard the word of truth, the gospel of (our) salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory."
[Ephesians 1:11-14]

And...

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
[1 Peter 1:3-5]

And...

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the Founder and Perfecter..." ~ also, Finisher ~ "...of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."
[Hebrews 12:1-2]

Grace and peace to all!

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

PinSeeker said:
And...

"I am sure of this, that He Who began a good work in you will..." ~ WILL ~ "...bring it to completion at the day of Christ." (Philippians 1:6)

And...

"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him Who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of His glory. In Him (we) also, when (we) heard the word of truth, the gospel of (our) salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory."
[Ephesians 1:11-14]

And...

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
[1 Peter 1:3-5]

And...

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the Founder and Perfecter..." ~ also, Finisher ~ "...of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."
[Hebrews 12:1-2]

Grace and peace to all!

Thank you for sharing and confirming the word on when we are born again of the Spirit by believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The two greatest commandments for abiding in Him is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & to love one another.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So whenever any believer has any trouble with a recurring sin or loving one another, we can always go to Jesus for help to lay aside every weight & sin daily as well as having His love to forgive one another daily.

Ephesians 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Episkopos · Jan 20, 2022

Being born again of the Spirit is a gift of initial grace. It is a beginning not an end. It is only a sample of God's grace. If we wish to have the full measure of grace then we will need to give all we have and are to the Lord. Our offering must be accepted for the baptism in the Spirit to take place. remember the parable of the pearl of great price. One must sell all he has to buy the field...which is the kingdom realm.

The initial grace is like receiving a lamp with just a little oil. But soon that oil runs out. So either we pride ourselves for having an empty lamp or else we go to God in order to PURCHASE more oil. To whom much is given MORE is required. God is fair. He has raised the stakes by giving us a heart that loves Him. We will be judged on what we have done with what we have been given. No one gets judged for the gift they have been given...but rather what was done with it. Remember the 10 lepers who were all healed but only one returned to the Lord. Jesus asked...where are the other 9?

So we ought not to put our confidence in a gift but rather go to God and enter into the fullness of a walk in Him.

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
Being born again of the Spirit is a gift of initial grace. It is a beginning not an end. It is only a sample of God's grace. If we wish to have the full measure of grace then we will need to give all we have and are to the Lord. Our offering must be accepted for the baptism in the Spirit to take place. remember the parable of the pearl of great price. One must sell all he has to buy the field...which is the kingdom realm.

The initial grace is like receiving a lamp with just a little oil. But soon that oil runs out. So either we pride ourselves for having an empty lamp or else we go to God in order to PURCHASE more oil. To whom much is given MORE is required. God is fair. He has raised the stakes by giving us a heart that loves Him. We will be judged on what we have done with what we have been given. No one gets judged for the gift they have been given...but rather what was done with it. Remember the 10 lepers who were all healed but only one returned to the Lord. Jesus asked...where are the other 9?

So we ought not to put our confidence in a gift but rather go to God and enter into the fullness of a walk in Him.

This is why believers doubt their salvation by just believing in Jesus Christ alone because of what it is you are sharing.

The full measure of grace has been received at our salvation for how we are born again of the Spirit & therefore complete in Christ. Proof is below.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Only one baptism with the Holy Ghost and that happens at the born again of the Spirit when we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God is in us and is with us always since salvation, and therefore we are complete in Him for why what you say is departing from His words & our faith in Him to move away from our resting place in Jesus Christ to chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world....

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Those that have gone astray or doubt their salvation because of that apostate calling, can return to their first love with His help by remembering the truth in His words for how we had been born again of the Spirit by having come to & believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

amadeus · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
Being born again of the Spirit is a gift of initial grace. It is a beginning not an end. It is only a sample of God's grace. If we wish to have the full measure of grace then we will need to give all we have and are to the Lord. Our offering must be accepted for the baptism in the Spirit to take place. remember the parable of the pearl of great price. One must sell all he has to buy the field...which is the kingdom realm.

The initial grace is like receiving a lamp with just a little oil. But soon that oil runs out. So either we pride ourselves for having an empty lamp or else we go to God in order to PURCHASE more oil. To whom much is given MORE is required. God is fair. He has raised the stakes by giving us a heart that loves Him. We will be judged on what we have done with what we have been given. No one gets judged for the gift they have been given...but rather what was done with it. Remember the 10 lepers who were all healed but only one returned to the Lord. Jesus asked...where are the other 9?

So we ought not to put our confidence in a gift but rather go to God and enter into the fullness of a walk in Him.

Amen!
Good to see you on here old friend!

Episkopos · Jan 20, 2022

Christ4Me said:
This is why believers doubt their salvation by just believing in Jesus Christ alone because of what it is you are sharing.

The full measure of grace has been received at our salvation for how we are born again of the Spirit & therefore complete in Christ. Proof is below.

Colossians 4:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Only one baptism with the Holy Ghost and that happens at the born again of the Spirit when we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God is in us and is with us always since salvation, and therefore we are complete in Him for why what you say is departing from His words & our faith in Him to move away from our resting place in Jesus Christ to chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world....

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Those that have gone astray or doubt their salvation because of that apostate calling, can return to their first love with His help by remembering the truth in His words for how we had been born again of the Spirit by having come to & believed in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

You are missing the message here. We are complete IN Him. He is not complete in us. That is why so many believers fail and lower the standard of Christ to a sinful holiness. So what you are saying is exactly upside down. Now most people will never walk in resurrection life. They are still faithful if they remain within the sphere of Christ and follow Him at whatever distance they are able to.

You need to re-read the message of Jesus concerning the kingdom of God. You are completely ignoring His teachings and following men who have not known the kingdom walk

Episkopos · Jan 20, 2022

I find it amazing that people would rather feel good now about owning their salvation than to consider how they might be among the foolish virgins. HALF of believers are foolish virgins. And more if you take into account that we are in the end times. Yet so few are wise enough to consider this. I guess that is the foolishness of it.

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
You are missing the message here. We are complete IN Him. He is not complete in us.

You are flipping the message here where there can be no flipping for what it means to have been saved by Him. This is His work in having saved us by believing in Him for why we are complete in Him.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

That is why so many believers fail and lower the standard of Christ to a sinful holiness. So what you are saying is exactly upside down. Now most people will never walk in resurrection life. They are still faithful if they remain within the sphere of Christ and follow Him at whatever distance they are able to.

Colossians 2:6 exhorts believers to walk in Him, rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving after having received Christ Jesus at their salvation.

None of that requires a continually receiving of Him by a supernatural phenomenon to accomplish that which is what you are trying to preach.

You need to re-read the message of Jesus concerning the kingdom of God. You are completely ignoring His teachings and following men who have not known the kingdom walk

The irony is that what you are teaching isn't about just another baptism with the Holy Ghost, because that phenomenon happens again & again & again. So when are they full?

Jesus made a promise that after coming to & believing in Him, we would never hunger nor thirst again to be filled.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

This is why after we have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ is why we are not a laky vessel that requires a constant filling of the Spirit, let alone another baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

We are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God being in us always that we are saved.

Your message says the opposite by denying Him and what He has accomplished in us for why we are complete in Him as saved to rest in Him.

Now that He is in us always since salvation, we have confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us by helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily while enabling us to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. This is why we have no need for another filling of the "spirit" to do that. One drink of the One Spirit is sufficient by Whom we have all been baptized into that one body by, for why we live by faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
I find it amazing that people would rather feel good now about owning their salvation than to consider how they might be among the foolish virgins. HALF of believers are foolish virgins. And more if you take into account that we are in the end times. Yet so few are wise enough to consider this. I guess that is the foolishness of it.

The irony is that the wise had their oil with them for why they were ready, whereas the foolish went out to the market to get the oil for why they were not ready. Those who seek another baptism with the Holy Ghost and keeps on seeking to be filled are out to the market still whereas the wise know they are saved since salvation for why they were ready as always Spirit-filled to not be out to the market seeking to be filled.

PinSeeker · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
We are complete IN Him.

Agreed. Right now, our lives are hidden in Christ.

Episkopos said:
He is not complete in us.

Agreed... in this life. But one day we will be just like Him. Still not Him, of course, but just like Him.

Episkopos said:
That is why so many believers fail and lower the standard of Christ to a sinful holiness.

Ah, I don't think anyone is lowering the standard, Episkopos. At least I hope not. They couldn't even if they wanted to, but again, I don't think anyone here is really doing that. Indisputably, God said, "Be holy, as I am holy." And Jesus, Who is God in the form of man, reiterates this in His Olivet discourse, saying, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Episkopos said:
So what you are saying is exactly upside down.

I don't think Christ4Me is quite saying what you think he/she is saying.

Episkopos said:
Now most people will never walk in resurrection life. They are still faithful if they remain within the sphere of Christ and follow Him at whatever distance they are able to.

Agreed, in this life. But one great day, we ~ not all, but God's elect ~ will finally be just like Him. God will make it so.

Episkopos said:
You need to re-read the message of Jesus concerning the kingdom of God.

Well, we all should, over and over again.

Episkopos said:
You are completely ignoring His teachings and following men who have not known the kingdom walk

Yeah, maybe, but it doesn't seem so to me.

Grace and peace to you.

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

PinSeeker said:
Agreed. Right now, our lives are hidden in Christ.

In that it is not we who live but Christ Who lives in us for how we are following Him by faith rather than by the deeds of the law in doing the best we can.

PinSeeker said:
Agreed... in this life. But one day we will be just like Him. Still not Him, of course, but just like Him.

In regards to salvation has been done by God, we are complete in Christ. As for going on to perfection, we should not confuse that saying "He is not complete in us" with what He has done at our salvation because God the Father is fully in us all.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Brother Episkopos is preaching another baptism with the Holy Ghost for believers to seek after for this fullness to come.

Episkopos said:
Being born again of the Spirit is a gift of initial grace. It is a beginning not an end. It is only a sample of God's grace.

Basically he IS saying we are not complete in Christ and that it is on us to get the full measure by seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost, thus denying all that He has done at our salvation for when we were born again of the Spirit.

Episkopos said:

If we wish to have the full measure of grace then we will need to give all we have and are to the Lord. Our offering must be accepted for the baptism in the Spirit to take place.

Click to expand...

remember the parable of the pearl of great price. One must sell all he has to buy the field...which is the kingdom realm.

Now according to Episkopas, we have to do something for the baptism in the Spirit to take place after having been born again by believing in Jesus Christ.

Episkopos said:

The initial grace is like receiving a lamp with just a little oil. But soon that oil runs out. So either we pride ourselves for having an empty lamp or else we go to God in order to PURCHASE more oil.

Click to expand...

To whom much is given MORE is required. God is fair. He has raised the stakes by giving us a heart that loves Him. We will be judged on what we have done with what we have been given. No one gets judged for the gift they have been given...but rather what was done with it. Remember the 10 lepers who were all healed but only one returned to the Lord. Jesus asked...where are the other 9?

That is Episkopos saying, believers can lose the holy Spirit for why a continual filling is necessary to keep on going. An empty lamp means no Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Never going to happen which is why we are warned not to grieve the holy Spirit in us by not sowing to the works of the flesh but by sowing to the fruits.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere being our seal of adoption as a testimony from God that we are His for why we can call God Father..

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: But that is not what the scriptures says for we are not a leaky vessel for why we are always Spirit-filled since salvation.

Episkopos said:

So we ought not to put our confidence in a gift but rather go to God and enter into the fullness of a walk in Him.

Click to expand...

I have to contend with brother, Episkopos, because he wants to believe what he is experiencing supernaturally to be of God for why he is ignoring scripture and he will try to fit his extra supernatural phenomenon int scripture even though other scripture refutes how he is applying those scriptures to mean.

The truth is we are not leaky vessels or otherwise he cannot claim this verse as part of our testimony of Jesus Christ having saved us.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is why we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

John 16:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Our confidence is in Him to finish His work in us by helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily in following Him. not by seeking a continual supernatural filling to do that when we are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we can have confidence in Jesus Christ to help us to follow Him.

PinSeeker said:
Ah, I don't think anyone is lowering the standard, Episkopos. At least I hope not. They couldn't even if they wanted to, but again, I don't think anyone here is really doing that. Indisputably, God said, "Be holy, as I am holy." And Jesus, Who is God in the form of man, reiterates this in His Olivet discourse, saying, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

That is what running that race is all about but by faith in Jesus Christ rather than seeking the apostasy of daily supernatural filling of the "Spirit".

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

You had shared this reference earlier and so I highlighted what we agreed is how we run that race in following Him, not by seeking a supernatural phenomenon daily to do that, but by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily.

Episkopos · Jan 20, 2022

Christ4Me said:
In that it is not we who live but Christ Who lives in us for how we are following Him by faith rather than by the deeds of the law in doing the best we can.

In regards to salvation has been done by God, we are complete in Christ. As for going on to perfection, we should not confuse that saying "He is not complete in us" with what He has done at our salvation because God the Father is fully in us all.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Brother Episkopos is preaching another baptism with the Holy Ghost for believers to seek after for this fullness to come.

Basically he IS saying we are not complete in Christ and that it is on us to get the full measure by seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost, thus denying all that He has done at our salvation for when we were born again of the Spirit.

Now according to him, we have to do something for the baptism in the Spirit to take place after having been born again by believing in Jesus Christ.

That is him saying, believers can lose the holy Spirit for why a continual filling is necessary to keep on going. An empty lamp means no Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Never going to happen which is why we are warned not to grieve the holy Spirit in us by not sowing to the works of the flesh but by sowing to the fruits.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

The Holy Spirit is not going anywhere being our seal of adoption as a testimony from God that we are His for why we can call God Father..

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: But that is not what the scriptures says for we are not a leaky vessel for why we are always Spirit-filled since salvation.

I have to contend with brother, Episkopos, because he wants to believe what he is experiencing supernaturally to be of God for why he is ignoring scripture and he will try to fit his extra supernatural phenomenon int scripture even though other scripture refutes how he is applying those scriptures to mean.

The truth is we are not leaky vessels or otherwise he cannot claim this verse as part of our testimony of Jesus Christ having saved us.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

That is why we will never hunger nor thirst any more to be filled after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

John 16:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Our confidence is in Him to finish His work in us by helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily in following Him. not by seeking a continual supernatural filling to do that when we are always Spirit-filled since salvation so we can have confidence in Jesus Christ to help us to follow Him.

That is what running that race is all about but by faith in Jesus Christ rather than seeking the apostasy of daily supernatural filling of the "Spirit".

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

You had shared this reference earlier and so I highlighted what we agreed is how we run that race in following Him, not by seeking a supernatural phenomenon daily to do that, but by looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily.

Paul is exhorting believers (that means they are already Christian) to "put on Christ" or put on the New Man...or put on the full armour of God. THAT is the fullness of grace that can be purchased from the Lord through the sacrifice of the outer man.

So many people are NOT ready to be taught the Christian life because they have been indoctrinated into a gospel that has NO power except to assume and presume.

God's ways are just and right. His grace is power over sin, the devil and the world.

Few will enter into the kingdom because of teachings like you are espousing. You will never seek for what you have been led to believe you already have.

This is the problem with itching ears and teachers who are too willing to promise eternity...as long as you pay their salaries.

A believer in Christ is called to the feast of the Lamb. He doesn't need to be born of the Spirit for that. The Lord called those who are still both bad and good as guests to the supper. And this is a good thing.

The problem is when people are sold on claiming to be born again, when they are not, because they misinterpret SEEING the kingdom (present tense) to mean getting saved on judgment day. There is SOOOOOOOOOOO much confusion being taught by unqualified professionals that learn their doctrines in man-made schools based on theories made by various men.

The higher calling is for the minority NOT the majority. The Bible speaks about that calling. One has to be dishonest to claim that one is in the high calling when one clearly is not.

When you enter into Christ you don't sin at all. In Him is no sin. One has to repudiate the plain teaching of the bible to claim otherwise. So instead of assuming you are crucified with Christ you should look at what being crucified with Christ entails. It means being freed...dead to sin. People read that and still sin..thinking well, I am dead to the sin I just committed. Such confusion.

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
Paul is exhorting believers (that means they are already Christian) to "put on Christ" or put on the New Man...or put on the full armour of God. THAT is the fullness of grace that can be purchased from the Lord through the sacrifice of the outer man.

But not in the manner you are saying.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Believers are not standing when seeking a continual filling of the "Spirit" but are falling down in a loss of self control.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Paul is praying; not the Holy Spirit. Paul is praying IN the spirit as opposed to OUT of the Spirit in seeking to be continually filled with the "Spirit".

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

No one is making known the mystery of the gospel by speaking in gibberish nonsense.

So many people are NOT ready to be taught the Christian life because they have been indoctrinated into a gospel that has NO power except to assume and presume.

Power to live as the sons of God has been received at salvation so we can go forward and walk with Christ always.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

God's ways are just and right. His grace is power over sin, the devil and the world.

The receiving of the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ is a one time event that glorifies Jesus Christ as our Savior. Any other calling or supernatural phenomenon is tempting believers to move away from their resting place in Christ as if you are teaching them that they are not saved.

Few will enter into the kingdom because of teachings like you are espousing. You will never seek for what you have been led to believe you already have.

To continually seek what was promised to us by the Father for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ would only make the Father look evil as if He did not give us the Holy Spirit the first time at our born again of the Spirit which is our salvation for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Christ4Me · Jan 20, 2022

Episkopos said:
This is the problem with itching ears and teachers who are too willing to promise eternity...as long as you pay their salaries.

Not being paid for this.

A believer in Christ is called to the feast of the Lamb. He doesn't need to be born of the Spirit for that. The Lord called those who are still both bad and good as guests to the supper. And this is a good thing.

That Marriage Supper is in Heaven for when the Bridegroom comes for the abiding bride of Christ and not before.

The problem is when people are sold on claiming to be born again, when they are not,

I am saying you are born again of the Spirit the moment you had believed in Jesus Christ. Now you are saying people are not when they do not follow after you in seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost.

The higher calling is for the minority NOT the majority. The Bible speaks about that calling. One has to be dishonest to claim that one is in the high calling when one clearly is not.

There is only one hope of our calling for why there can be no other calling let alone a higher calling. That would be the same as preaching another gospel.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

When you enter into Christ you don't sin at all. In Him is no sin. One has to repudiate the plain teaching of the bible to claim otherwise. So instead of assuming you are crucified with Christ you should look at what being crucified with Christ entails. It means being freed...dead to sin. People read that and still sin..thinking well, I am dead to the sin I just committed. Such confusion.

There is freedom from sin's dominion power over our lives but we are not prefect yet for why Jesus taught s that prayer to the Father to forgive our trespasses or debts as we are to forgive others of their trespasses or debts and there is even a warning that if we do not forgive others of their sins, neither will the Father forgive us of our sins.

Matthew 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Like it or not, we have been warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit for why we need the Lord's help to forgive others as Jesus Christ has forgiven us. So read below how one puts on the 'new man" & note how the Holy Spirit is with us to stay no matter what which means no need for another baptism of the Holy Spirit since we are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are His.

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Christ4Me · Jan 24, 2022

@PinSeeker

Just letting you know the Lord led me to clarify a post I had done in reply to you which included quotes from bother Episkopos. It may have been confusing and mayhap insulting to you as if misquoting you, so I edited that post so that you knew when I was quoting you from when I was referring to Episkopos in quoting him and his errant belief.

When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

That is the link to the edited post # 12 in this thread.

Sorry for any confusion or unintentional insult I had done in that former reply to you.

I ask for forgiveness if I had offended you.

In Christ's Love,

Christ4Me

Scott Downey · Jan 25, 2022

Only Christ has the fullness of the Spirit, we have a measure given to us by God.

John 1:16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.

Ephesians 4
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

For by Grace you have been saved, through the means of faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God lest anyone should boast.

Faith-fulness is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, our faith continuing inside of us is one of the works of God

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 9:3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him.

And from eternity past, God knew all of His works, so your salvation was sure in him from before the foundations of the earth

Acts 15:18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works."

And God rested from ALL His works on the seventh day of creation

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

For now we only know in part, but then we shall know fully on that Day and in the ages to come God will show us more and more.

1 Corinthians 13:11-12 New King James Version
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Ephesians 2:7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Daniel 12
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

Philippians 2:12-14b New King James Version
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Ephesians 1
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

Ephesians 1:23
which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 3:19
to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 4:13
till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 1:19
Reconciled in Christ
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Ernest T. Bass · Jan 25, 2022

Christ4Me said:
Jesus explained this event as something that is not notable when it happens because then we would be able to tell when someone is born again of the Spirit.

John did not say a person cannot know when he is born again. Jesus tells Nicodemus about the wind..."and thou hearest the sound thereof". Therefore Jesus did not tell Nicodemus he could not know when the wind was blowing for one can hear when the wind blowing thereby know the wind is blowing. And Christ tells Nicodemus when the wind is blowing, that being, when one is water baptized (born of water) one is born again and one does know when he has been water baptized. Romans 6:17-18 WHEN one obeys from the heart that form of doctrine (water baptized) "THEN made free from sin". Men can KNOW WHEN they are born again and are not left in the dark about it.

Christ4Me · Jan 25, 2022

Ernest T. Bass said:
John did not say a person cannot know when he is born again. Jesus tells Nicodemus about the wind..."and thou hearest the sound thereof". Therefore Jesus did not tell Nicodemus he could not know when the wind was blowing for one can hear when the wind blowing thereby know the wind is blowing. And Christ tells Nicodemus when the wind is blowing, that being, when one is water baptized (born of water) one is born again and one does know when he has been water baptized. Romans 6:17-18 WHEN one obeys from the heart that form of doctrine (water baptized) "THEN made free from sin". Men can KNOW WHEN they are born again and are not left in the dark about it.

I'd still say because one is born again by believing in Jesus Christ is why no one can tell exactly when one is born again.

If water baptism is essential then what happened here in Acts 8?

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

These were potential believers water baptized in His name for believing the things Philip preached about. Why were they not saved yet since they did not have the Holy Ghost?

Why did Paul deferred from water baptism by announcing that believing in the preaching of the cross is how we are saved?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

farouk · Jan 25, 2022

Christ4Me said:
I'd still say because one is born again by believing in Jesus Christ is why no one can tell exactly when one is born again.

If water baptism is essential then what happened here in Acts 8?

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

These were potential believers water baptized in His name for believing the things Philip preached about. Why were they not saved yet since they did not have the Holy Ghost?

Why did Paul deferred from water baptism by announcing that believing in the preaching of the cross is how we are saved?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Indeed, I would certainly not hold that baptizing someone causes the person to be born again. Acts 2.41 makes it clear that it was those who 'gladly received his word' who were baptized; i.e., they were believers already and showed that they were believers by being willing to be baptized.

When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

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