The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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GEN2REV

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Can you explain what Luke was reporting about here in the early church in Acts?

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved......4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Why didn't they say the Gentiles were to keep the sabbath then in verse 20? Is it because of how the Jews were doing it to be saved when they are saved?
Again, this is all about Ceremonial laws.

The 10 Commandments are not Ceremonial laws. They are a given. The Sabbath Commandment was implied along with the other 9. That is not what is being discussed in the passage you presented.
 

GEN2REV

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Its the only truth

If you keep the whole law yet stumble in on area your guilty.

The 10 commands are active, break one your done.

The jews did not get this fact, it appears you have not either
Well, it appears Paul agreed with me and he was a Jew among Jews before he became a Christian. Interesting that he, a converted Jew, understood the Commandments were not to be cast aside.
Acts 21:24

That's pretty weighty in favor of obeying the Commandments.

I pray that you, and all those who have been misled, will come around to Paul's way of thinking.
 

quietthinker

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The corruption of Judaism is an easy argument to make, since even the Lord Himself testified that they were adding to the word of God. But the corruption of the word itself is a tougher argument to make, for it implies that the God of Heaven and Earth was (and is) not able to prevent it.

If we accept the premise that He is not able to prevent corruption of His word, then He is not the Most High God, and whatever god was able to likely is.

But out of curiosity, send me some links on corruption of the sabbath from the SDA point of view. I'd be glad to read it. I could use some interesting information right now. I have very little going on.

God bless,
- H
I've got no idea what the SDA point of view is re this matter
 

GEN2REV

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Well, the 35,000 year thing is a new one on me....which means I have no idea what you mean.

I look at it like this...In a perfect environment where all is harmony there is no call for laws that don't apply.
Laws which challenge a persons poor or evil inclinations are in place because a problem exists, for example, a 50klm speed limit near schools is in place so children who are distracted have less of a chance of being hit by speeding drivers etc etc.

Somehow man lost his moral compass after the fall and anarchy became the trajectory
Law is better than anarchy, it at least gives what is out of control some parameters.

When all again is harmony after the 'sin situation' in this world is dealt with and ended; when the redeemed become heirs of the Earth made new and anything that defiles has vanished we will hardly need laws that say don't kill, don't steal, don't covet etc etc.
I think we're at an impasse.

You don't understand me and I don't understand you.

I'm ok with that.
 

quietthinker

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I didn't marry out of obligation. The Sabbath was made for us by God. And is a sacred obligation that reflects and embraces relationship.
God, the creator and sustainer of creation set a period of rest from worldly obligations. And while Christ is our rest every moment , I believe Sabbath is a time where we can live the peace of our one on one relationship with God and without our lives unique daily distractions interrupting as happens during the rest of the week.

For example, I can meditate and pray before work and feel the armor of God fitted snuggly about my person. And when I open the door and go to the car to begin my day, I am now focused on that next task, and those all consuming hours ahead as I make my daily living.

While on Sabbath I can awaken when I want to, take a bath and relax and even make it a cleansing rite at the start of Sabbath.

I have all those hours where it is just me and God at home together. And nothing interrupts our one on one. It's we time.
Because while I know God is always with me every moment of every day, shutting out the world and visiting together is special. And empowering.

That's not obligatory. That's a precious gift.
good on you bugalugs!
 

GEN2REV

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That's because, with all due respect, it's not really taught very well.


No, it's not Sun worship. :) That's the Egyptian religion, which was exceedingly demonic and the basis for modern Satanism.

The Essenes observed a solar calendar because it was referenced in the Book of Enoch as the original one, and they highly honored that book. The mistake they made, however, is in not understanding that the solar calendar was pre-flood, as were most of the events described in the narrative. Things changed when the flood occurred. The earth's axis was thrown off ever so slightly, which caused the breaking up of the deep, and the stars being thrown out of line, and it messed up the calendar year. God had the Jews follow a lunar calendar instead after the flood, which is also mentioned in Enoch.

Anyway, skipping a lot of details, here is why it becomes important: The Essenes were completely fanatical about their observance of the Jewish sabbath, down to exactly what songs were to be sung each sabbath, and at exactly what moments in time, believing everything needed to be in perfect synchronization with the worship of the angels going on in Heaven.

Now, if this is what Paul was warning the Colossians against (and it is. I haven't listed all the ties yet, but Essenism was essentially an adoption of Pythagoreanism into Judaism, hence Paul's reference to them not being robbed by "philosophy" earlier in the letter), then Paul's passing reference to "sabbaths" in Colossians 2:16 becomes weak if keeping the 7th day in any certain way was still central and vital to New Testament Christianity. Certainly they were keeping it, as were they things like Passover and Pentecost early on, but after a Christian fashion now, not after the strictness of the Jews. If he were combating the doctrines of Essenism, then there were would have been this LONG treatise on how to accurately keep the Jewish Sabbath so as not to be sinning against God. Instead you have this passing reference to how the sabbaths in general (along with the new moons and festivals, unclean food laws etc) were now merely "shadows" or foreshadowings of prophetic events now being fulfilled by the church in the NT era. Paul's stress was NOT on keeping the sabbath in the "right" way, but instead on matters of morality (Colossians 3:5-25). Hence it becomes very unlikely that its observance held the same importance then that it does today in the minds of people like the SDAs, who believe it will eventually be a requirement to salvation.
Hmmm. Interesting.

I still don't understand how some will settle with the idea "Ok, nine of the Commandments are still vaild, but NOT the 4th!"

Makes zero sense in light of scripture.
 

quietthinker

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@ Oceanprayers....I do have a question though, how come your profile says Panama City but also says Canada?
 

GEN2REV

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The Commandments were written to sinners, not to children of God. The Children of God worship Him in Spirit and in truth, for Christ has taken away their sin nature and nailed it to the cross. They are no longer sinners, because the laws of God are written on their new nature and their super-sensitive conscience keeps them from sinning. God dwells inside them, and we in Him. The Commandments of Jesus have everything to do with Him.

1 John 3:21-24
21 Beloved, if our heart (conscience) does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Romans 6:

6-7 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

The part in red is referring to the Ten Commandments - the letter of the law.
This take doesn't align with Revelation 3:5.

That verse shows that names can be blotted out from the Book of Life. That means that the 'saved', or whatever you'd like to refer to them as, can still sin ... and can lose their place in God's Kingdom.

If sin is still possible, the 10 Commandments are still valid. You can't have one without the other. They are inseparable.
 

GEN2REV

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Spiritually, we have been washed of sins past, present and future. I believe OSAS. I believe we have a spiritual self but also still live with our flesh, that we are to render dead already, but not yet. We still sin, but it is not sin unto death. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh, but our spirit is purified so that if we died this instant, our spirits would separate from our flesh and we would got directly to the Lord, white as snow. That is how it has been since Christ.
All of that is negated per these verses:
John 15:2
John 15:6
Revelation 3:4-5
Revelation 17:8

Please consider these verses carefully.
 

GEN2REV

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Again, why don't you read the context of the scripture. This is a letter to the Church of Sardis. The message was: "You have a reputation of being alive, BUT YOU ARE DEAD. WAKE UP, STRENGTHEN WHAT REMAINS AND IS ABOUT TO DIE, FOR I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD ... REPENT ... YOU HAVE A FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT SOILED THEIR CLOTHES. THEY WILL WALK WITH ME, DRESSED IN WHITE FOR THEY ARE WORTHY.
Then we have verse 5: "He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life ..."

Out of seven churches, only two were right with God, the others were rebuked and told to repent or else. They existed in the past but are also church types throughout the Church Age. We can see them today. We can see ourselves in some of the descriptions.
Philadelphia was the faithful church that is spared the hour of trial.
Smyrna was the persecuted church. It's faithful to death yet some need to repent.
Ephesus was the orthodox church with good doctrine but forgot their first love who is Jesus. I would imagine a lack of brotherly love ... so they were told to repent.
Pergamum is the worldly church with false doctrines, sin and materialism. Pergamum was also known as the location of the Throne of Satan.
Thyatira tolerates sin and is undisciplined ... repent!
Sardis was the dead church with no fruit ... repent!
Laodicea is neither hot nor cold but lukewarm. They may be self-sufficient, rich, in need of nothing, in their comfort zone. They toot their own horn when they do something nice
I don't know how you can write all that you wrote in this post and still argue the point that you are arguing.

It's like you just want to create opposition that has no basis even in your own posts. So much of what you wrote 100% contradicts your own argument.
 

quietthinker

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That verse shows that names can be blotted out from the Book of Life. That means that the 'saved', or whatever you'd like to refer to them as, can still sin ... and can lose their place in God's Kingdom.
All are in the book of life just as all are in Adam.
You can however volunteer for a scrubbing of your name from the book of Life.....which unfortunately most opt for ....all the while thinking they're getting a better deal.
 

Brakelite

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As I contend, no law of God is broken by the appearing of Christ. Some are simply not needed anymore in regard to their literal keeping. For example, God looks at us in regard to the law of Passover and says, "I see no violation of law here." Even though we haven't lifted a finger to sacrifice a lamb in accordance with the literal law of Passover. Because Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been applied to our account through our faith. And so His sacrifice is the reason we don't have to keep the literal Mosaic Passover observance anymore. And so it is with the other outward ceremonial worship laws. Christ is the fulfilment of those laws, not the breaking of those laws, so that no debt of law remains regarding those, and so God sees no violation of those laws when he sees us.
This I can agree with. The scripture actually said, Christ our Passover. And the other ceremonial Sabbaths, the wave sheaf, pentecost, feast of trumpets, in fact all 7 of them, (7... What a surprise) were all pointing to a coming Savior. Only one feast is not yet fulfilled in the antitype... The feast of tabernacles. That comes after the second coming when we are celebrating our Exodus from this world.
Notice only 7. The weekly Sabbath can not be included as a feast day, a celebration, or a ritual instituted as a lesson for the resolution of the sin problem as were all the laws and statutes and ordinances of Moses. All those, they law of Moses, were instituted as the solution to the sin problem. The sin problem is the transgression of the law of God. The law of Moses was established to free the people from sin, this honoring the law of God. Both sets of laws, were included in the Torah, as were the laws to do with health, and civil laws to keep order as a theocratic state. One set of laws, they one God wrote on stone, was placed in the ark. All the others were written by Moses and placed beside the ark. Not all of them have been done away with. The Sabbath will still be observed in heaven. And you won't be eating pork and lobster there either.
It is said we only take one thing with us into glory. Our character. Our mindset. It isn't changed at the last minute. You can't go through life spurning all God's good counsel and expect to be in glory with a good character later. Time to develop an attitude of obedience now. There is no "dispensation of grace" that excuses anyone from their obligation to obey God's Commandments.
 

Brakelite

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The 10 Commandments are FOREVER
did they exist prior to creation?
Any law, of whatever nature, be it local government or national dictatorship, is a reflection of the character and nature of the lawgiver.
The Ten Commandments are no different. They are a reflection, a written expression of the love of God. That's eternal... In all directions.
 
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GEN2REV

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All are in the book of life just as all are in Adam.
You can however volunteer for a scrubbing of your name from the book of Life.....which unfortunately most opt for ....all the while thinking they're getting a better deal.
Revelation 17:8 proves that all are NOT in the Book of Life.

Claiming that they are is a cop-out OSAS defenders just love. Shame it's so not true.
 

Hidden In Him

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Hmmm. Interesting.

I still don't understand how some will settle with the idea "Ok, nine of the Commandments are still vaild, but NOT the 4th!"

Makes zero sense in light of scripture.


Well, as you previously quoted, the sabbath hasn't actually passed away. It will be fully restored when the earthly kingdom is established in Israel once more during the millennium. The difference right now is that during the times of the Gentiles it does not carry the same force it did under Judaism. It can be and still is observed by many, including several on this thread, though we are not under the penalty of law like they were, regarding ANY of the 10 commandments actually; there is no stoning if we are caught in adultery, or steal, or covet someone's wife, or do not observe the sabbath after a spiritual manner. Judgments can come from God who sees all and judges rightly, but as Paul said, the decrees in the handwriting that were against us (i.e. the punishments of the law) were nailed to the cross, so there is no stoning of the lawbreaker any more.

Regarding sabbath-keeping, I don't personally see it as the worst sin if I should not. As Christ said, man was not made for the sabbath but the sabbath for man, and unlike with many of the other 9 commandments I would be hurting no one but myself by not observing it. But in my case, my days are spent with the Lord, like continually. My whole life has been constructed for decades now around being able to spend massive amounts of time with Him daily. I only work maybe 3 hours a day and have zero other commitments, so my time has been His for a very long time now, and will continually be until I die.

The sabbath was intended to force the Israelites to dedicate themselves to spending time with their God, but I need no such commandment, as the law is written upon my heart continually. To reduce myself back to concentrating on spending time with Him primarily on the 7th day (and I would observe the lunar calendar if I did, btw, which is the proper one), I would essentially be regressing from a spiritually higher standard of living to a lower one, IMO. But I do admire those who can stand by it as a way of life, especially those who must work more hours in a day and can't spend the same amounts of time during the week. I sometimes gravitate towards fixed patterns of behavior myself on occasion, such as when observing the hours of prayer during fasts. But as a rule, I leave myself aways free to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit on all matters, including on how much time I spend with Him and when.
 
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