The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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Ferris Bueller

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You are seriously mistaken. Only the Ten Commandments were written on tablets of stone WITH THE FINGER OF GOD. Not once but TWICE. And God commanded that the second set of tablets be preserved within the Ark of the Covenant. If that does not make them special, then you do not understand the word "special".
Stones that were broken before Moses barely got down the mountain and a second set which do not exist today, and while they did exist were unreadable because they were unavailable to everyone. We only know about them because Moses wrote them down.

They are only special and set apart in the way I stated: As a summary of God's laws, succinct and easier to identify and remember than the entire law, and more than sufficient to expose and condemn even the most hardened, excuse making, 'I'm never wrong', narcissist.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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What happened is that in the mid-20th century, evangelical scholars finally realized that there is no scriptural foundation for Sunday-sacredness so, rather than reform by keeping the genuine Sabbath, they devised a plan to disavow the law entirely.
You should be happy to see I'm not one of those who disavow the law entirely.
I want everyone here who observes the sabbath to keep doing that - just lose the 'I'm going to hell if I don't' part. Save that for the things that actually matter, you know, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not chew tobacco in public...
 

Ronald David Bruno

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All of that is negated per these verses:
John 15:2
John 15:6
Revelation 3:4-5
Revelation 17:8

Please consider these verses carefully.
I have. Who was Christ referring to in John 15:2? He was speaking about Israel, presently branches connected. In Rom. 11, those brances were cut off so that the Gentiles could be grafted in. The Holy Spirit had not come yet ... and I am wondering if you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit?
John 15:6 is just a matter of fact statement. If you don't abide "in Christ" you will be cut off and thrown in the fire. Listen, God has given life to everyone. We are physically attached to this life whether believers or not. This is figurarive language. A branch grows in a tree/vine and the gardener comes along and prunes the tree allowing for new growth. The Holy Spirit confirms our life in Christ. We are sealed and it is a done deal.
Rev. 3 was reflecting people in church who were not really believers as we see today- there are tares among us. God allows them to be there.
Rev. 17:8 is a fact. The elect were chosen before time and written into the Book of Life. Some of those dead people in the seven churches needed to repent, the rest were just tares who were not in the Book of Life.
Next
 
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Robert Gwin

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Yes, that passage is grounded in verse 14 which sets the theme for what is being discussed there.

It's discussing the Ceremonial Ordinances.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and it took it out of the way, nailing it to the Cross;"
Colossians 2:14

None of the 10 Commandments are contrary, or against, us.

Verse 16-17 says, paraphrasing, 'Let no man judge you in any of these sacrificial ordinances which Christ has done away with.' Those practices were a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice to come, but Christ is the actual substance, or final outcome/purpose thereof.

You didn't answer my questions Gen, May I ask do you observe the Sabbath, and if you do are you willing to accept the consequences for disobeying it?
 

Ferris Bueller

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The last sentence personifies the absolute absurdity in this theology, particularly because Paul reminded the Corinthians to keep the Passover with the right attitude(1 Cor. 5:7-8, 11:23-31).
Actually, he was speaking of them keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which, for those who may not know, immediately follows the Passover), which he spiritualizes. The Passover has been kept by them through faith in Christ's sacrifice, not through Moses, and immediately following that their 'houses' were swept clean of the leaven of sin by the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, not by Moses command to clean their residences. Paul is telling them, because this is true STOP SINNING. There's nothing there about Paul commanding them to keep a literal Passover/ Feast of Unleavened Bread. Can they? Sure! But not for the matter of being obedient to God, or else being condemned as a law breaker.
 

Brakelite

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This is a theological dumpster fire, considering (1) this argument is made from the rather ignorant and unbiblical view that all Israelites are Jews, (2) Deut. 4:5-8 shows God explicitly saying He wanted all nations to eventually keep these same laws, and (3) Paul clearly stated in Eph. 4:17 that ethnic Gentiles were no longer supposed to live lawless lives upon converting to Christianity.
Add to that, the Israelites fixed their hopes upon worldly greatness. From the time of their entrance to the land of Canaan, they departed from the commandments of God, and followed the ways of the heathen. It was in vain that God sent them warning by His prophets. In vain they suffered the chastisement of heathen oppression. Every reformation was followed by deeper apostasy. Yet despite their stubbornness and rebellious habits, God persevered with them, and on several occasions encouraged the other heathen nations, lost in idolatry and sin, to turn to the Lord, and to take a hold of the laws of Israel and make them their own, promising them life and protection in return. The Sabbath being the prime taste test to prove that the God of Israel is gracious and merciful.
KJV Isaiah 56:1-7
1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Are not we strangers and pilgrims in the land? Who are we to say the promises of God do not include us simply because we live in a different time? Time changes, God doesn't.
 

Robert Gwin

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Which Sabbath?

I assumed you were referring to the Sabbath day of the 10 commandments since that was the topic of the thread, are you referring to something else?

Again if you are speaking of the one in the 10 commandments, I would like to ask you two questions Enoch, do you observe the Sabbath? Are you willing to accept the consequences of disobeying that commandment? Awaiting your reply sir.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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This is a theological dumpster fire, considering (1) this argument is made from the rather ignorant and unbiblical view that all Israelites are Jews, (2) Deut. 4:5-8 shows God explicitly saying He wanted all nations to eventually keep these same laws, and (3) Paul clearly stated in Eph. 4:17 that ethnic Gentiles were no longer supposed to live lawless lives upon converting to Christianity.

Gentiles were not given the OT law nor required to keep it for they did not have to be circumcised, not keep the Sabbath, etc. yet still found salvation, see Rahab in James 2:25.
Romans 3:1-2 what advantage did the Jew have in being circumcised, in having the OT law committed to them? Paul say "much in every way". It was a honor the Jew was given God's law but it came with responsibilities they did not keep. If the law was given to all as some claim, then what advantage would the Jew have had? None.
"The Jews, in reference to the means and motives of obedience, enjoy many advantages beyond the Gentiles; and, principally, because to them were committed the oracles of God-that revelation of his will to Moses and the prophets, containing a treasure of excellencies, with which no other part of the world has been favoured;" (Clarke) (my emp)
And it was this OT law that was given to the Jews, that could not justify the Jew that Christ took away and replaced with His NT that COULD JUSTIFY both Gentile and Jew.
 
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GEN2REV

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Names are blotted out of (or removed from) the Book of Life. Which means that they would have been there to begin with.
Again, the verse I posted proves that not ALL people's names ARE in the Book of Life.

Observe carefully.

"The beast ... shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, ... and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not (were never) written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world (never),..."
Revelation 17:8

This clearly proves that NOT everybody's name is in the Book of Life. Therefore, only those who were intended for salvation will have their names in that book and it is they who are blotted out and removed from that book.

I won't continue to address this point. Scripture has made it crystal clear.
 

Christ4Me

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So there ya go, you don't see it!
Here's an attempt to change that :) ...Who created the Sabbath? ..the Creator did. Who is the Creator? Jesus! Colossians 1:16 (check the context) 'For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him'

Am I a sabbath keeper?....yes, I am :) ....in fact I approve all of God's Commandments.....even when they convince me of sin.

I say as John Newton (who coined the song 'Amazing Grace') says, 'two things I know, I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Saviour'

If you are going outside the context of Matthew 12:1-8 to other scripture as referring your belief to that purpose, then of course I am not going to see it.

If you sinned once in not keeping the sabbath, then one cannot be considered a sabbath keeper.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? .....

When someone speaks of himself in keeping the law or even his commitment to follow Christ, he does it by seeking his own glory for doing it & religious men of the world are associated with such commitments to praise the men for doing them, and yet by the law & by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. It is a false witness to testify of ourselves anyway.

We must decrease for Him to decrease. John 3:28-30

When a believer testify of His faith in Christ in how He is helping us to follow Him, we become witnesses of Him in seeking His glory.

When a believer testify of keeping the sabbath or his commitment to follow Christ, that is to his glory as a religious man.

A believer cannot do both. Alcoholic Anonymous & narcotic Anonymous are familiar with commitments and choosing their higher power of whatever they wish that high power to be, and although the recipients of anniversary coin for being sober give that credit to their higher power, his sponsors and those in his group all rolled their eyes at their higher power and instead give the credit to the addict for keeping his commitment.

No one can see that believer's faith in Jesus Christ doing it when he is being double-minded about testifying he is doing it by keeping his commitment.

I cannot see how a sabbath day keeper escape this false testimony other than to say thanks to Jesus Christ, I honor the Lord that day without referring to it as a commandment in keeping.

No believer has ever boast of being a "Loving Others Keeper" or being a "Honor thy Father & Mother Keeper" when Jesus Christ is why & how we do what we do. By testifying of ourselves, it sets one up to be judged when they do not do it and thus cannot be called a "Keeper".

If we live by faith in Jesus Christ, then by the grace of God & His help, He helps us to abide in His words in following Him as His disciples and not serve any thing else in His name nor be known by any other banner for which men can glorify themselves under.

That is why Jesus had set me free from all man made yokes of bondage as I do not look to any law to do the best I can, not even to love others, but to Jesus Christ to help me to follow Him thus declaring my faith in God to do it by His grace & by His help.

It is not our sincerity that we are to be witnesses of, but His sincerity to help us in all things so that sinners look for our hope in Jesus Christ, too.
 

GEN2REV

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On the other hand, consider it a challenge. Prove me wrong. Knock me off my pedestal. You will find that I am of good humor if you prove me wrong. Ya know why....? It is just something that I learn....duly noted. Some get all offended when they are corrected. I know so much that I am expecting to be wrong somewhere. No offense.
Uhh, no. I've been on that merry-go-round. It doesn't play out quite like you claim.

You say you're willing to be corrected.

You literally believe you have secret knowledge about the 10 Commandments that nobody else possesses.

That's concerning.
 

Christ4Me

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What is the purpose of a question like this?

Just rying to figure out if he was reading his belief of that purpose for fellowship into the context of the scripture of Matthew 12:1-8

So there ya go, you don't see it!
Here's an attempt to change that :) ...Who created the Sabbath? ..the Creator did. Who is the Creator? Jesus! Colossians 1:16 (check the context) 'For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him'

Am I a sabbath keeper?....yes, I am :) ....in fact I approve all of God's Commandments.....even when they convince me of sin.

I say as John Newton (who coined the song 'Amazing Grace') says, 'two things I know, I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Saviour'

If you are going outside the context of Matthew 12:1-8 to other scripture as referring your belief to that purpose, then of course I am not going to see it.

If you sinned once in not keeping the sabbath, then one cannot be considered a sabbath keeper.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? .....

When someone speaks of himself in keeping the law or even his commitment to follow Christ, he does it by seeking his own glory for doing it & religious men of the world are associated with such commitments to praise the men for doing them, and yet by the law & by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. It is a false witness to testify of ourselves anyway.

We must decrease for Him to decrease. John 3:28-30

When a believer testify of His faith in Christ in how He is helping us to follow Him, we become witnesses of Him in seeking His glory.

When a believer testify of keeping the sabbath or his commitment to follow Christ, that is to his glory as a religious man.

A believer cannot do both. Alcoholic Anonymous & narcotic Anonymous are familiar with commitments and choosing their higher power of whatever they wish that high power to be, and although the recipients of anniversary coin for being sober give that credit to their higher power, his sponsors and those in his group all rolled their eyes at their higher power and instead give the credit to the addict for keeping his commitment.

No one can see that believer's faith in Jesus Christ doing it when he is being double-minded about testifying he is doing it by keeping his commitment.

I cannot see how a sabbath day keeper escape this false testimony other than to say thanks to Jesus Christ, I honor the Lord that day without referring to it as a commandment in keeping.

No believer has ever boast of being a "Loving Others Keeper" or being a "Honor thy Father & Mother Keeper" when Jesus Christ is why & how we do what we do. By testifying of ourselves, it sets one up to be judged when they do not do it and thus cannot be called a "Keeper".

If we live by faith in Jesus Christ, then by the grace of God & His help, He helps us to abide in His words in following Him as His disciples and not serve any thing else in His name nor be known by any other banner for which men can glorify themselves under.

That is why Jesus had set me free from all man made yokes of bondage as I do not look to any law to do the best I can, not even to love others, but to Jesus Christ to help me to follow Him thus declaring my faith in God to do it by His grace & by His help.

It is not our sincerity that we are to be witnesses of, but His sincerity to help us in all things so that sinners look for our hope in Jesus Christ, too.
 

GEN2REV

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What bothers me is when things are being discussed, and someone starts making light of serious discussion. We are speaking about the Lord and making goofy statements bothers me. I think it is dishonoring to God.
It reveals who has true reverence and who is here for the sheer purpose of discrediting and invalidating God and His Word.

Hint: They are everywhere. :(
 

Christ4Me

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Because the Sabbath wasn't an issue at that time. It was understood that it was every bit a part of God's law as were the other nine commandments. The Jews (the first Christians) were very zealous for the Sabbath. If people were going around trying to bring it down, we'd have a full report of that in Scripture, believe you me.

Gentiles do not keep the sabbath and yet there are no instructions to the churches in the N.T. to teach them to keep the sabbath.

However, there is a scripture that testify to doing a collection on the first day of the week for why they were to set aside a portion from that collection to support missionaries in the field. That can only be done at church service ad it was being held on Sunday as the order was to all the churches.

1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

All the scripture in the Book of Acts of how the disciples were in the synagogues was about their ministry outreach to the unbelieving Jews.

No one today, not even a "Sabbath Day Keeper", can hold a Christian service in a Jewish synagogue. So I do not see any doing it back then.
 

GEN2REV

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when Adam came from the creators hand God declared his creation very good, ie perfect. If man is perfect, all his thoughts, emotions inclinations are perfect. Why give rules to prohibit what never entered his mind?
Only after problems arise are rules formulated.....and yes you are right regarding stealing and adultery.....subsequently law was added because of transgression...for what purpose? to show how exceedingly sinful sin is.
You, and many others, completely disregard the unseen threat; and intend to encourage others to do the same.

Yes, sin entered mankind, but the far more troublesome danger is the devil and his countless advocates who tempt and influence man relentlessly to do evil.

That is a huge justification for the Commandments. When you have the devil constantly encouraging you to do evil, you must have an advocate from God teaching you, and encouraging you, to resist.

Thus, the Law on how to live rightly before God. The 10 Commandments which stand as a beacon of hope FOREVER.
 

Christ4Me

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Again, this is all about Ceremonial laws.

The 10 Commandments are not Ceremonial laws. They are a given. The Sabbath Commandment was implied along with the other 9. That is not what is being discussed in the passage you presented.

Don't you think they would have clarified that to the Gentiles since this was about the laws of Moses? But instead, they gave specific instructions about something else for the Gentiles to abstain from.

If you sinned once in not keeping the sabbath, then one cannot be considered a sabbath keeper.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? .....

When someone speaks of himself in keeping the law or even his commitment to follow Christ, he does it by seeking his own glory for doing it & religious men of the world are associated with such commitments to praise the men for doing them, and yet by the law & by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. It is a false witness to testify of ourselves anyway.

We must decrease for Him to decrease. John 3:28-30

When a believer testify of His faith in Christ in how He is helping us to follow Him, we become witnesses of Him in seeking His glory.

When a believer testify of keeping the sabbath or his commitment to follow Christ, that is to his glory as a religious man.

A believer cannot do both. Alcoholic Anonymous & narcotic Anonymous are familiar with commitments and choosing their higher power of whatever they wish that high power to be, and although the recipients of anniversary coin for being sober give that credit to their higher power, his sponsors and those in his group all rolled their eyes at their higher power and instead give the credit to the addict for keeping his commitment.

No one can see that believer's faith in Jesus Christ doing it when he is being double-minded about testifying he is doing it by keeping his commitment.

It is not our sincerity that we are to be witnesses of, but His sincerity to help us in all things so that sinners look for our hope in Jesus Christ, too.

I cannot see how a sabbath day keeper escape this false testimony other than to say thanks to Jesus Christ, I honor the Lord that day without referring to it as a commandment in keeping.

No believer has ever boast of being a "Loving Others Keeper" or being a "Honor thy Father & Mother Keeper" when Jesus Christ is why & how we do what we do. By testifying of ourselves, it sets one up to be judged when they do not do it and thus cannot be called a "Keeper".

If we live by faith in Jesus Christ, then by the grace of God & His help, He helps us to abide in His words in following Him as His disciples and not serve any thing else in His name nor be known by any other banner for which men can glorify themselves under.

That is why Jesus had set me free from all man made yokes of bondage as I do not look to any law to do the best I can, not even to love others, but to Jesus Christ to help me to follow Him thus declaring my faith in God to do it by His grace & by His help.
 

GEN2REV

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The question my posts address is 'is the law forever'. I'm not opposed to the law.....I think in our state of natural anarchy the law is a moderating factor.....I just do not think these will be necessary in a perfect eternity where sin will no longer raise its head.

I do not thinks sin will raise its head because there is a Law prohibiting it....it will not raise its head because our motivation will be far far far superior than prohibition.

I apply this same principle to Gods creation when it came off his hands.....God by his own declaration said all was very good.
As a familiar pattern I am starting to see clearly in your posts, this is a totally bogus position you are claiming to have.

The Truth of the matter is that you don't agree with the 10 Commandments still being in effect, and certainly not throughout the end times.

You are making a mockery of the concept of them being steadfast until the end of time, as well as any other concept you can make a joke of.

Your doctrine that you claim yourself to be all about is a mixture of New Age, Science, Pop Psychology and a pinch of Bible sprinkled on top. It is obvious that you don't embrace Biblical Truth with that attitude.

Your contributions to the thread are almost without any value at all.
 

Cassandra

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But God spoke them all at Mt. Sanai. That's what people aren't getting.

But God WROTE 10 of them with His Finger!!@That's what you aren't getting!!!! Those were singled out.
A new copy was made and later were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. Moses law was on the side of the Ark.
 
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