According to Reformed Theology irresistible grace should have ensured that this did not happen. After all Israel was an "elect" nation. Do you see how this demolishes the false doctrines of TULIP?
The Parable Of The Wedding Banquet
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robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Here is my take:
The parable is about the natural seed rejecting Him, and then the grafted in again natural seed followed by the Gentiles.
First there were the prophets and then Christ Himself inviting them to come: All His own were judged as unbelievers and cut off at the cross.
Then the risen Lord calls first the blinded Jews to repent and be grafted in again: the maim and the halt: the poor in Spirit after His crucifixion.
All were conclude in unbelief, but not all were calling for His crucifixion.
Then, once grafting in again the Jews not abiding in unbelief, He calls upon the Gentiles in the hedgerows and by ways outside the natural seed.
And so now, none bidden who do not come, whether Gentile or Jew shall taste of the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Flesh having no more profit with God.
while the leadership eventually killed all the apostles but John (v.3-6)
Killed the prophets, Christ, and the apostles.
What needs to be kept in mind, however, is that the Lord goes out to examine the wedding guests BEFORE the wedding.
At the day of His return or the day of our death on earth, which will be as a thief in the night to the disobedient that claim His name and covenant, whether Jew or Greek. They will not be in the resurrection of the church, but will be left in the grave or on earth to be smitten with the rest of the nations, having their portion with the hypocrites and ordained to wrath of the Lamb.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Have you seen those guys? Every thread turns into a beat-down. It's very dark in there.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Regarding this notion of some... I would say:
It is not about a “next life”, but rather the “same life”, in different circumstances.
Meaning;
* First; God is Just. What one desires, God WILL use His power to manifest ones desires.
1) For some; their desire is to NOT Believe. God effects their desire to be manifested.
2) For some; their desire is TO Believe. God effects their desire to be manifested.
1) WHAT a UNBELIEVER, (as his desire IS manifested), DOES with his UNBElIEF, becomes the ISSUE.
* Go on about his natural life, living in the moment, content when his body dies, that’s that, nothing more to consider.
* OR...
* Start or Jump on a bandwagon, OF: making his own UNBELIEF a campaign to Rally AGAINST GOD, to Convince Others to NOT BELIEVE?
2) A huge difference Between:
* (A) a desire of one TO NOT BELIEVE...
* AND...
* (B) Promoting an agenda to convince others to NOT BELIEVE.
3)
(A) shall ultimately have bodily life, and soul life removed from his body, his soul...and body and soul destroyed. <—-
(No next life, No eternal suffering)
(And remembering Gods Grace of an eternal “born again spirit”, having never been effected, FOR their spirit to be alive forever, AND separated in torments forever.)
3)
(B) Again, no eternal “born again” spirit.
But what about their express CHOICE (ie fault of their own):
TO promote an agenda to convince others to NOT Believe?
* That is a factor to consider.
2)
(C) Another factor to consider; IS: (their express CHOICE /ie fault of their own)
* DID THEY....ALSO “start or jump on a bandwagon”...TO expressly;
Persecute others; BECAUSE the others DID BELIEVE?
There IS EXPRESS knowledge in Scripture, that APPLIES to Every Individual.
Every individual HAS the liberty of FREEWILL.
Every individual DOES NOT HAVE the same desires...
Nor Does Every individual exercise their FREEWILL in the Same manner of Choices.
Nor Shall Every individual BE SUBJECTED TO: The same exact Consequences, WHICH, Scripture Clearly Reveals SHALL come to pass.
~ ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN
Every individual WILL Be accountable FOR THEIR OWN FREEWILL CHOICES.
* Be the accountability;
* (a) A favorable consequence; or
* (b) An unfavorable consequence...
~ The Consequence are Revealed in the Knowledge of Gods Word...
No Excuses. (Oops, not my fault, Oops, I didn’t know.)
~ The Power of God IS Revealed FOR earthly: eyes to see, ears to hear, noses to smell, tongues to taste, flesh to feel......
No Excuses. (Oops, not my fault, Oops, I didn’t know.)
Men OF the World, can call it...”Mother Earth”...”Mystery of Nature”...
It is the Creator and Maker, revealing His Power, for all earthlings to Experience.
No Excuses.
Rom 1:
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Glory to God,
Take
Concerning PARABLES
Begin with the TRUTH.
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
What a GROUPING OF WORDS ARE CALLED:
What a GROUPING OF WORDS secularly MEAN to mankind;
ie. PARABLE, FABLE, BED-TIME STORY, FICTION, FANTASY, etc.
BECOME utterly Irrelevant WHEN a man BELIEVES, is TRUSTING, he IS hearing the WORDS of Absolute TRUTH.
Foretelling......(ie Prophecy)
PSS 78:
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Prophecy;
Duet 18:
[15] The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Prophecy, coming to pass.
John 5:
[46] For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Prophecy, coming to pass.
Matt 13;
[3] And he spake many things unto them in parables,...
WHY did Jesus SPEAK IN PARABLES?
ONE crowd of Listeners to Hear.
ONE speech delivered out of the mouth of Jesus.
1) Some in the CROWD, “HEAR” a story, and “THEN” try it individually figure out it’s MEANING.
2) Some in the CROWD, “HEAR THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH”, and Accept the TRUTH as it is said...Period.
Matt 13:
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
WHAT do they NOT UNDERSTAND?
Jesus IS THE TRUTH....
HE CAN NOT SPEAK ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TRUE.
So, what does it matter, WHAT Jesus’ SPEAKING IS CALLED?
It’s Does NOT MATTER....
IF, a man BELIEVES Jesus CAN NOT LIE, thus EVERY WORD Jesus spoke is ABSOLUTE TRUTH
Glory to God,
Taken
Begin with the TRUTH.
John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
What a GROUPING OF WORDS ARE CALLED:
What a GROUPING OF WORDS secularly MEAN to mankind;
ie. PARABLE, FABLE, BED-TIME STORY, FICTION, FANTASY, etc.
BECOME utterly Irrelevant WHEN a man BELIEVES, is TRUSTING, he IS hearing the WORDS of Absolute TRUTH.
Foretelling......(ie Prophecy)
PSS 78:
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
Prophecy;
Duet 18:
[15] The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Prophecy, coming to pass.
John 5:
[46] For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Prophecy, coming to pass.
Matt 13;
[3] And he spake many things unto them in parables,...
WHY did Jesus SPEAK IN PARABLES?
ONE crowd of Listeners to Hear.
ONE speech delivered out of the mouth of Jesus.
1) Some in the CROWD, “HEAR” a story, and “THEN” try it individually figure out it’s MEANING.
2) Some in the CROWD, “HEAR THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH”, and Accept the TRUTH as it is said...Period.
Matt 13:
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
WHAT do they NOT UNDERSTAND?
Jesus IS THE TRUTH....
HE CAN NOT SPEAK ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TRUE.
So, what does it matter, WHAT Jesus’ SPEAKING IS CALLED?
It’s Does NOT MATTER....
IF, a man BELIEVES Jesus CAN NOT LIE, thus EVERY WORD Jesus spoke is ABSOLUTE TRUTH
Glory to God,
Taken
Predestination...
Every individual HAS a DESTINY.
What every individual LEARNS IS his own Destiny, is what the individual Discovers, during his earthly life-time, as he makes his own FREEWILL choices, his Destiny is revealed to the individual.
A man buys a plot of land, the land is full of gold. The man discovers the gold, become wealthy, that was his destiny.
The same man squanders his wealth, becomes poor, that was his destiny.
A mans destiny hangs on the individual mans own choices and results thereof.
Predestination......APPLIES TO the ALL KNOWING GOD.
** The ALL Knowing GOD....knows every Freewill Choice every individual “WILL MAKE”..........BEFORE that individual IS manifested (ie naturally born).
* The ALL knowing GOD....knows IF, WHEN, WHAT, HOW, WHY....every individual shall be naturally born alive, what they shall be called, what they shall look like, what they shall like, dislike, hear, think, speak, advocate, choose, accept, reject....
* The ALL knowing GOD....has already PREPARED a “PLACE”, for every single individual......WHO Ignores Him, WHO Accepts Him, WHO Rejects Him.
God KNOWING every mans DESTINY is one thing.
Mankind DISCOVERING his DESTINY is another thing.
Predestination......IS NOT GOD “choosing FOR every individual, what their DESTINY SHALL BE.
Predestination.....IS GOD “Knowing”, what every individuals DESTINY SHALL BE.
Glory to God,
Taken
Every individual HAS a DESTINY.
What every individual LEARNS IS his own Destiny, is what the individual Discovers, during his earthly life-time, as he makes his own FREEWILL choices, his Destiny is revealed to the individual.
A man buys a plot of land, the land is full of gold. The man discovers the gold, become wealthy, that was his destiny.
The same man squanders his wealth, becomes poor, that was his destiny.
A mans destiny hangs on the individual mans own choices and results thereof.
Predestination......APPLIES TO the ALL KNOWING GOD.
** The ALL Knowing GOD....knows every Freewill Choice every individual “WILL MAKE”..........BEFORE that individual IS manifested (ie naturally born).
* The ALL knowing GOD....knows IF, WHEN, WHAT, HOW, WHY....every individual shall be naturally born alive, what they shall be called, what they shall look like, what they shall like, dislike, hear, think, speak, advocate, choose, accept, reject....
* The ALL knowing GOD....has already PREPARED a “PLACE”, for every single individual......WHO Ignores Him, WHO Accepts Him, WHO Rejects Him.
God KNOWING every mans DESTINY is one thing.
Mankind DISCOVERING his DESTINY is another thing.
Predestination......IS NOT GOD “choosing FOR every individual, what their DESTINY SHALL BE.
Predestination.....IS GOD “Knowing”, what every individuals DESTINY SHALL BE.
Glory to God,
Taken
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
An atheist was once asked, "who is the god you don't believe in?", He replied with the description you wrote above. The questioner then said, "I am a Christian. I don't believe in that God either. What kind of God would you like to believe in?", he asked, to which the man replied with a description of Jesus.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I will respectfully decline to add anything further to this post other than my response here as you've said everything that really needs to be said. Well done.
Thanks for responding, Robert.
I am of the opinion that the ingrafting analogy applies strictly to the Gentiles, but I do think He called them all, including all the Jews in Israel. I appreciate the response.
God bless.
- H
Hello, Taken.
Though I haven't posted on it much yet, the passages that address predestination in scripture consistently center upon what men were predestined to go through in this life. What their fate was concerning the next was in their own hands.
THE WEDDING BANQUET
* The Betrothal, The Wedding....AND......The Wedding Banquet....
is revealed IN SCRIPTURE, according to:
the ORDER and WAY that applied to:
The Ancient Jewish protocol of a Jewish: Betrothal, Wedding, Banquet.
* The Betrothal....promising, arranging, between females father and prospective groom and the bride and groom, preparing.
*The Banquet....invited quests, gathered at the grooms fathers house, eating, drinking, waiting for the arrival of the groom bringing his bride to the fathers house.
* The Wedding...the groom fetching his bride for her fathers house, taking her, and arriving with his Vailed Bride, to his fathers house, where the guests are awaiting.
The Order and Way, is detailed in Scripture.
* The Wedding Banquet, is the portion of the ceremony that applies to....
The Invited quests, whose purpose is to be Witnesses, Hearing the Testimony of the Bride and Groom who shall be entering into a Wed-Lock Ceremony.
Glory to God,
Taken
* The Betrothal, The Wedding....AND......The Wedding Banquet....
is revealed IN SCRIPTURE, according to:
the ORDER and WAY that applied to:
The Ancient Jewish protocol of a Jewish: Betrothal, Wedding, Banquet.
* The Betrothal....promising, arranging, between females father and prospective groom and the bride and groom, preparing.
*The Banquet....invited quests, gathered at the grooms fathers house, eating, drinking, waiting for the arrival of the groom bringing his bride to the fathers house.
* The Wedding...the groom fetching his bride for her fathers house, taking her, and arriving with his Vailed Bride, to his fathers house, where the guests are awaiting.
The Order and Way, is detailed in Scripture.
* The Wedding Banquet, is the portion of the ceremony that applies to....
The Invited quests, whose purpose is to be Witnesses, Hearing the Testimony of the Bride and Groom who shall be entering into a Wed-Lock Ceremony.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
This relates to the confusion I often see among younger Christians these days. They fail to see that a wedding is observed to witness to the world that they are married, not to God, and you see this even more so in the Jewish weddings. It witnessed to their marriage in the sight of man.
As for the consummation, that was the true union, yes. But that was not something God desired men to have to witness.Witnessing the extensive and elaborate wedding proceedings were to accomplish that, so that the latter would not be necessary.
Well whether we think it right or not, it what was the practice in Jesus day. they didn't watch, nor have their ears to the walls, but did hear the ecstatic sounds from within like a neighbor in a cheap hotel room would here. Itr is what it was in those days!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I do not speak for reformed theology and their concept of irresistible grace.
Nor will I apologize for God that individuals (not nations) are drawn to HIm by irresistible grace.
Now will I apologize that god has temproarily cast aside Israel as a nation for the calling out of teh Gentiles a people for HIs name for His son. Once thatr calling is complete Israel will be rewed to the Father and in the Kingdom have their rightful place according to all th eprophecies God said He would accomplish for, in, and through Israel.
This parable in the OP reminds me of Matthew 8:12 when Jesus says: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It makes me wonder if we Christians don't need to be shaken out of our complacency, our confidence in our election as God's people. Jesus makes me very uncomfortable sometimes.
But that does not address the issue of the elect being chosen for salvation. In fact every Jew should have been saved when Christ was on earth. Instead Stephen told them that they ALWAYS resist the Holy ghost. Which cancels out unconditional election (U) and irresistible grace (I). This was an "elect" nation as noted in the Torah! And your gospel says that the elect are saved regardless!
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