Who are the Promised Ones who shall possess the Land of God, forever?

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Curtis

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Except that the eternal home of the Church is NOT the land of Israel but the heavenly city New Jerusalem.

The city comes down to Jerusalem. You really need to research a lot more on this.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, that I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely; now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”

Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Exe 36:15 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Eze 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

Eze 36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewiththey had polluted it:

Eze 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

Eze 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These arethe people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

Eze 36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

I Will Put My Spirit Within You

Eze 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Eze 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eze 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
 
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Randy Kluth

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That makes no difference. God sees the tribes of Israel in the future not only as exactly the twelve tribes, but settled in Greater Israel along very specific boundaries. See Ezekiel 48. We at the present time cannot see what God sees in the future, but the very fact that Revelation 7 and 14 present the 12 tribes should be enough to settle the questions. And Romans 11 tells us that there will be a redeemed and restored Israel. This is New Testament truth (supported by a huge number of OT passages).

I think Eze 40-48 is a symbolic vision given to Ezekiel, designed to induce repentance among the Hebrews of his own time. The symbolic imagery was taken by Jesus in his vision to John to assure him that Israel will continue to have God's promise of Israel's national salvation. It is being retained by a remnant of Jews who equally represent all 12 tribes, being that all 12 tribes are mixed into the Jewish People.

They will therefore have an equal inheritance in Israel when that country is completely restored and becomes a Christian nation at Christ's return. I'm just reiterating my own personal view--not attacking your own view.
 

Keraz

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I will give the Land to new owners:

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.

The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.


The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.

Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.


Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.

This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +


Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practice evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.


Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him.
People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12


Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.


This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.

It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone. How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]


We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.


In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage,
1 Corinthians 3:13-15


As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

 

Aunty Jane

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The story as I read the Bible's narrative is clear and uncomplicated for the most part. Complications occur when people put their own spin on the Bible's words....just let them speak for themselves.

What God first purposed for mankind will yet be accomplished (Isaiah 55:11).....i.e. the reason why God put humans on planet earth in the first place was to be the caretakers and zookeepers of this very carefully prepared home for all material creatures of infinite variety that God had created.
Each with its own habitat and food supply in abundance. Water too was to serve so many uses as life thrived on this watery planet with as much life in the oceans as there was on dry land....maybe more?

So where does man come into the picture?....last. All that God had created was self-sufficient and a cycle of life was programmed into each and every creature to ensure that the earth would comfortably support them, forever. Adaptation would create new varieties, and this is what we see in nature. A new environment or a new food source creates a new variety of an existing species so that life is perpetuated. This is not evolution, but God's way of dealing with natural changes that challenge an existing creature to adapt for their own survival.....which they always do.

Genesis 2:7-9...
"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person. 8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad."

Vs15-25...
"Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eʹden to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”

18 Then Jehovah God said: “It is not good for the man to continue to be alone. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.” 19 Now Jehovah God had been forming from the ground every wild animal of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call each living creature, that became its name. 20 So the man named all the domestic animals and the flying creatures of the heavens and every wild animal of the field, but for man there was no helper as a complement of him. 21 So Jehovah God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God built the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman, and he brought her to the man.

23 Then the man said:
“This is at last bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh.
This one will be called Woman,
Because from man she was taken.”

24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh. 25 And both of them continued to be naked, the man and his wife; yet they were not ashamed."


So what happened to spoil that clear and uncomplicated scenario? All the humans had to do was obey one simple command that imposed no hardship on them whatsoever. They were well equipped for the task assigned to them, transforming the land outside the garden until the whole earth was filled with their children and all were living in paradise conditions that they had worked to achieve for themselves. (Genesis 1:26-29) They would then just have to maintain it and enjoy it....forever.

Enter the first rebel.....a spirit creature who had been assigned to oversee the garden and who began entertaining wrong thoughts and desires concerning the humans. As free willed beings, both angels and humans have the ability to choose their actions. God had abuse of free will covered because he put limitations on its use for their benefit, as they would soon see.

What would God do when this formerly obedient angel rebelled and took the humans with him? And was he surprised by what happened? Did the rebel underestimate God's response?

As an omniscient God, he would allow ample time for the humans and the angels to make their own choices in full knowledge of God's stated consequences. Angels were intensely interested in what would become of these new creatures. (1 Peter 1:12) They had been observing the creative process and expressed their joy at its completion. (Job 38:4-7) But God did not interfere with the choices that his intelligent children made. What he did was respond to their choices....dealing with whatever decisions they made, but always intending that his first purpose would go ahead.

Six "days" were taken for creation, and the seventh (when God rested from his creative works) was for the outworking of any problems associated with the exercise of free will. No matter what happened in that seventh day, God would deal with it appropriately, whilst using their actions (and the consequences) to teach them all valuable lessons about obedience to their Sovereign. The seventh day would then have its stated conclusion as all the other creative days had.....'everything will be very good'.

Responding to the need to offset Adam's actions in losing everlasting life, not only for himself, but also for all his children, (Romans 5:12) God purposed right at the beginning, a way to buy back what Adam lost for them. He purposed to send his son to redeem them.....to pay the debt to free them from condemnation to sin and death....but it was a very long process from the human standpoint....

I came to realize that humans were not the prime targets of this object lesson. The first rebel was not human...but he hijacked the human race for his own selfish purpose and so this lesson is held in Universal time, not earth time. The spiritual realm is not governed by the rotation of our small planet....and the spirit beings who could follow this rebel into disobedience, could create havoc for earth's inferior inhabitants....and in fact they could probably wreak havoc in the whole Universe. But the issues raised in Eden when God's name and reputation were challenged by this spirit rebel, had to be answered unequivocally.

Lessons needed to be stark and unambiguous. Consequences had to be dire because a knowledge of evil had invaded his children's lives when he had tried to protect them from it. Apparently these 'children' had to be shown what it means to disobey their Creator, since they could not be told.

That is how I see things being played out right now.....we are nearing the end of this important object lesson, which I believe will set precedents for all eternity so that God's Sovereign right to set the rules for his creation will be upheld with no one to question their validity. We have seen where independence from God leads us....nowhere good. We will never want to go there again and God would not need to allow us to, anyway.

God's first purpose is about to be reinstated. (Revelation 21:2-4)
 
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APAK

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I provided plenty of Scripture. So do you or do you not agree that the twelve tribes of Israel will be settled in Greater Israel after the Second Coming of Christ? According to the promises of God.

The reason I don't "calm down" is when people simply ignore Scripture to promote their pet ideas. Then Scripture becomes meaningless.
Enoch, in all sincerity you have not looked at scripture fairly and believed what it actually says pertaining to some areas of this topic. You have inserted your own meaning in some of it. For example, one glaring error and you are not alone in this view is when you said that National Israel did possess the land promised BUT did not possess it entirely, to the Euphrates or the Nile. And therefore this promise was never fully completed and shall be in the future. This is a typical Futurist stance if you don't mind me saying so.

That interpretation is not even approached or spoken of in scripture. It is your view, your extra thought, because you have other theories that need to match this narrative. I'm just the messenger and a very conservative one at that. And I do not like to speculate and add other ideas I want to see in scripture.

When scripture tells me that Joshua, then David and then Solomon fulfilled all the lands deals, I believe it, I do not add my own imaginations. Scofield caused so much damage to the minds of many Christians I have to say.

The only one (land deal) of the future, that has not be completed or fulfilled yet is the 'Canaan land' promised to Abraham himself. He never possessed the physical land because it is not a physical land gifted to possess. It is the Kingdom of the spiritual land of Canaan.


If you do not mind let me bring this example I brought up into a simpler one.

Say you were given land as a gift to POSSESS or USE not to OWN for perpetuity BECAUSE there were conditions placed on it TO REMAIN independent and free, - from other foreign entities, governments or other intrusions. And you agreed to the terms and conditions going into the arrangement. And say you only lived in about 10 percent of the entire land gifted. From the get go you began violating the terms. You had to leave it now.

Would you then really believe that because you never possesses and inhabited the entire land it should be owed to you in the future.

Of course not, You have no right to any part of it in the future. Maybe you can return to the land under the rule of another party or parties.

This is essentially what happened to National Israel. They forfeited the right to the land as the only party on it. And returned to a part of it again in the future under foreign control.

Now you keep saying that National Israel is owed their land gifted to them. And you say it is written in scripture. Not hardly I'm afraid, They blew it as scripture clearly states in several OT Books.
 

APAK

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If you don't think OT promises are fulfilled in the New Testament, what do you think Jesus fulfilled?
You are forgetting I was only speaking specifically of the ones of natural National Israel, not the seed of Abraham, Christ, as its fulfillment. That is another fulfillment and completion indeed. Christ tied all this together, indeed.
 

APAK

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...continuation-------

(Rom 11:7) So then, Israel failed to achieve what it had strived for, but the divinely chosen remnant receives it by grace, while the rest were hardened and unable to receive the truth.

(Rom 11:8) Just as it is written: God granted them a spirit of deep slumber. He closed their eyes to the truth and prevented their ears from hearing up to this very day. (TPT)

(Rom 11:23) God is more than ready to graft back in the natural branches when they turn from clinging to their unbelief to embracing faith.(TPT)

(Rom 11:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.(KJV)

(Rom 11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (KJV)

(Rom 9:27) And the prophet Isaiah cries out to Israel: Though the children of Israel are as many as the sands of the seashore, only a remnant will be saved.(TPT)

(Gal 6:15) Circumcision doesn’t mean a thing to me. The only thing that really matters is living by the transforming power of this wonderful new creation life.

(Gal 6:16) And all those who live in agreement with this standard will have true peace and God’s delight, for they are the Israel of God.(TPT)

The promises made to Abraham and to National Israel were fully completed in Christ Yahshua. The ‘fulness of the non-Jews’ will be completed as the last soul gives their life to Christ before the rapture to the wedding and feast into the Kingdom of the new heavens and earth.

Definitions of Israel:

Galatians 6:16 – all saved => the Israel of God = the church or Body of Christ.
 

APAK

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(Gen 32:28) And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.(KJV)

(1Ki 8:1) Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.(KJV)

(1Ki 12:20) And it came to pass, when all Israel heard that Jeroboam was come again, that they sent and called him unto the congregation, and made him king over all Israel: there was none that followed the house of David, but the tribe of Judah only. (KJV)

There is no National Israel regathering and revival to salvation in the future as Dispensationalists claim. They ignore much scripture to singly pull out a part of a verse, an expression (‘…that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in…’) and built their foundation upon it. Only a remnant of National Israel was and were saved and grafted back into the tree of life when all non-Jews were and will be saved in Christ, not an entire National Israel.

The key is that ‘all Israel’ in Romans 11:26a means the (last generation) remnant of National Israel. If it suddenly takes on a new meaning from this verse as meaning all National Israel, then Paul through the Spirit must have contradicted himself.

The Israel of God => Remnant(s) (over previous generations) of National Israel + Remnant from all the nations of non-Jews. Both of these two groups, of which the latter are the majority, were and shall be grafted back into the Tree of Life.

‘All Israel’ cannot mean all 12 literal National tribes as the Northern 10 tribes were already separated and their blood lines cut off, permanently. Only parts of the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin remained as National Israel when Paul was speaking. And he acknowledged he was part of that surviving and last believing remnant as the remaining Israel of God.

And the official records of Paul and his ancestry were destroyed by King Herod. And if any record was missed, it was surely destroyed by the Romans some 20 years later in 70 AD.

All blood-line connections of National Israel was cut off by 70 AD, as they cut off Christ. No more National Israel exited after 70 AD, only those saved in Christ as only a remnant. From the Day of Pentecost until 70 AD, the LAST and FINAL remnant of National Israel existed.
 

APAK

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(2Ki 19:30) And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit upward.

(2Ki 19:31) For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.(KJV)

(Mat 21:43) “This is why I say to you that the kingdom realm of God will be taken from you and given to a people who will bear its fruit.(TPT)

The Kingdom was permanently removed from the National Israelites who found their own righteousness in their own works under the Law.
 

Randy Kluth

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You are forgetting I was only speaking specifically of the ones of natural National Israel, not the seed of Abraham, Christ, as its fulfillment. That is another fulfillment and completion indeed. Christ tied all this together, indeed.

I don't think I was forgetting that. I was just responding to what you were saying. You seemed to impose a dichotomy between OT realities and NT realities, thinking that the OT realities were purely there to foreshadow something utterly different in the NT era?

My view is that Christ came not to negate *anything* natural in the OT. Rather, he came to complete everything God had begun in the OT, which was of course "natural." There is nothing, as you admitted, that does not begin "natural."

So, if God began with natural Israel, then Jesus' goal was to prepare for the spiritual fulfilment of that natural entity, and not bring about a completely new entity, the international Church. In fact, he came to accomplish both, in my view-the salvation of both Israel and the nations by their becoming the Church in the end.
 

Curtis

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Now you keep saying that National Israel is owed their land gifted to them. And you say it is written in scripture. Not hardly I'm afraid, They blew it as scripture clearly states in several OT Books.
God dispersed Israel from their land and brought them back several times, and with each dispersal God said He would bring them back - scripture is clear that God will in the future dwell on the earth, In Jerusalem, forever.

God even says He won’t do it for their sake, but for HIS, so their ‘blowing it” is irrelevant.

Eze 36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Eze 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

Eze 36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewiththey had polluted it:

Eze 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

Eze 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

Eze 36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.



Eze 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Eze 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I amthe LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.


Eze 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

(The King is Jesus, who is prophesied in Isaiah and Luke and elsewhere to have an unending kingdom ruling from the throne of David, in Jerusalem, starting from His second coming)

Eze 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.


Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall betheir prince for ever.

Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle (home) also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Eze 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
 

APAK

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I don't think I was forgetting that. I was just responding to what you were saying. You seemed to impose a dichotomy between OT realities and NT realities, thinking that the OT realities were purely there to foreshadow something utterly different in the NT era?

My view is that Christ came not to negate *anything* natural in the OT. Rather, he came to complete everything God had begun in the OT, which was of course "natural." There is nothing, as you admitted, that does not begin "natural."

So, if God began with natural Israel, then Jesus' goal was to prepare for the spiritual fulfilment of that natural entity, and not bring about a completely new entity, the international Church. In fact, he came to accomplish both, in my view-the salvation of both Israel and the nations by their becoming the Church in the end.
Randy, agree with the first part.... the part that I disagree with you on is found in your last sentence of your post.

There is no National Israel to save today, literally, These people are gone as were the 10 tribes and then those of Judah and Benjamin during Paul's time. That was the last of the historical Nation of Israel. The ancestral line or blood line was deliberately severed by God. And there is no such thing as a Replacement theory. It's really not a theory, it is a fact. God deliberately replaced and extinguished National Israel into a better way through his Son and his Christ if they are willing, for all of us, and to a spiritual land, forever.

I can get more into it in my next posts...those calling themselves Israel or a Jew today are not genuine in blood-line natural/nationality or spirit. They are not the Israel of God. They can be if they find Christ and be part of the spiritual Israel as the rest in the Body.

Christians should be over in their 'State' trying to convert them back to God, to be grafted into the Tree of Life as they are really from the other nations, and never were part of National Israel...and if it is his will of course to do so.

Thanks
 

APAK

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(Isa 10:20) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

(Isa 10:21) The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

(Isa 10:22) For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.(KJV)

(Isa 37:31) And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

(Isa 37:32) For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

(Joe 2:32) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.(KJV)

(Mic 4:7) And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.(KJV)

(Zep 3:13) The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.(KJV)

The last of generations of remnants of the National (blood-lined) Israel of God => A small number of Judahites were saved, over a period of about 37 years only.

God totally rejected and destroyed National identity of natural Israel after the literal destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
 

APAK

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(1Th 2:14) My dear brothers and sisters, the same thing happened to you as happened to God’s churches in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you received the same kind of mistreatment from your fellow countrymen as they did from theirs, the Jews

(1Th 2:15) who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and ran us out of town. They are offending God and hostile to everyone else

(1Th 2:16) by hindering us from speaking to the unbelievers so that they might be saved. By so doing they are constantly filling up to the brim the measure of their guilt, and punishment has come upon them at last!(TPT)

Punishment of National Israel indeed came to them by 70 AD. They all finally perished as a nation and spiritually! It came to its logical and just end.

(Mat 21:42) Jesus said to them, “Haven’t you ever read the Scripture that says: The very stone the builder rejected as flawed has now become the most important capstone of the arch. This was the Lord’s plan—isn’t it a miracle for our eyes to behold?

(Mat 21:43) “This is why I say to you that the kingdom realm of God will be taken from you and given to a people who will bear its fruit.

(Mat 21:44) The one who comes against this stone will be broken, but the one on whom it falls will be pulverized!

The Pharisee knew this would be their fate. They were to be erased from history as a people and as religious authorities and their false religious practices. They were literally pulverized in 70 AD.

(Mat 21:45) When the leading priests and the Pharisees realized that the parable was referring to them, …(TPT)

The Kingdom of God was taken from National Israel, the Pharisees and their authority and their self-righteous religion. It is to be given to only the remnant of National Israel and to others in other nations that become saved. If you reject Christ you will be destroyed from now on.
 

Taken

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How could they be "fulfilled" when the nation of Israel (a) never possessed the land from the Nile to the Euphrates all at once, and (b) they were dispersed in 70 AD (and were out for almost 2,000 years), and now the nation-state of Israel occupies perhaps 1/10th of the Promised Land? Keep in mind that they are to possess this land for eternity.

The eleven tribes of Israel did possess the land. Levi having no land, but rather a traveling Preacher.
They lost the land.
Loss of the land, does not prevent Abraham’s promise from being fulfilled PERMANENTLY.
It’s a revealing. Without God, eternal promises can not be accomplished.
Gods promise of eternal land possession shall be fulfilled.

What Britain restored was portions of land that Britain controlled, and acquiesced to the Jews to establish a recognized Nation of Israel.

Gods “restoration”, shall encompass ALL the Promised land, which shall Be Jesus’ Earthly Kingdom, and His throne (same as king Davids’ Throne) as the seat of His Kingdom’s Governance, in Jerusalem.....The Throne being, (not a chair), but rather a Position, from a particular place, ie Jerusalem.
 

APAK

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(Rev 2:9) I am aware of all the painful difficulties you have passed through and your financial hardships, even though, in fact, you possess rich treasure. And I am fully aware of the slander that has come against you from those who claim to be Jews but are really not, for they are a satanic congregation.(TPT)

(Rev 3:9) Watch how I deal with those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews but are not, for they’re lying. I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge how much I’ve loved you.(TPT)

Christ is saying at least two things here: Since his ascension and the day of Pentecost, 1., There are literally no official natural National Israel existing anymore and therefore no recognized National Jew whether converted in Christ or still considered under the Law. and 2., those now in Christ, and those previously part of the National Israel and converted in spirit are all of the Israel of God, as was Paul.

Also, a false Jew then and even today say they are the blood descendants of one of the 12 tribes of National Israel, and they are not. Also there are people who convert/converted to Judaism then and today and say they are now Jews, and are truly not.

Side Note: The Judahite blood-line was being corrupted during Ezra’s and Nehemiah’s time. God allowed it all to be mixed in what was left of the 2 tribes remaining of this nation as it was already dead at that point in time - 400 years or so before Christ.

(Ezr 9:1) Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, and the Levites, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites.(KJV)

(Neh 13:23) In those days also saw I Jews that had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, and of Moab:

(Neh 13:24) And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.

(Neh 13:25) And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.(KJV)
 

APAK

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Judaism is derived from the exiles in the Babylonian captivity that produced the Pharisees. These practitioners of Judaism were possessed by the spirit of the anti-Christ. They wrote down their traditions and sayings of their Rabbis in their Talmud.

Judaism is used to fool true Christians into thinking they follow the traditions of the OT. Judaism is Talmudism, a counterfeit Israel religion. It is the doctrine of the Pharisees.

The citizens of the Zionist political State of Israel are called Israelis. They are the counterfeit citizens of the true Nation and citizens of the nation of Israel. Their father is of the devil.

Israeli geneticists researched and found that Israelis do not have the blood line of the original Israelites.

Between 2002-2015 abd even today, researchers found that those claiming to be Jews are not Jews. They are descendants of the Asiatic Khazars or Khazarians. They converted to Judaism by the 8th century AD...around 750 AD, en masse

The Ashkenazi Jew originated from the converted Khazar people to Judaism.

The Zionist-Marxist- Ashkenazi Jew are the ones falsely called 'the chosen ones of God' and yet they are not the religious, and most are atheists.

There is no blood-lined Jew that extends to Jacob today, since the time of Christ.

No so-called Jew today can claim a promised land, or a claim to any holy land of God.

The New Jerusalem is our promised land to only those that know Christ. It is the 'land' offered to us forever. It is the worldwide Covenant, open to all in Christ.

Christian Zionists should be preaching Christ to these delusional Jews instead of continuing the lie that they are the chosen ones of God.

The New Covenant is unconditional of Christ.

The Old Covenants was conditional, and these conditions were broken. Thus God denied National Israel.

Abraham was the father ultimately and still is today, of all believers in Christ.

The remnant of the nation of Israel, of Judah and Benjamin, were saved at part of the Body.

Physical Jerusalem destroyed.

Scofield and Futurism is a lie.

The so-called Jews today, and as they call themselves Israelis, with their pagan flag flapping in the breeze, represent the pagan political State of Israel. It is purely a Zionist Jew Banker, Rothschild creation, and he is no lover our God of Abraham either. He is a Satanist. This creature called Israel today, was born out of evil. It is a grand deception.

Nearly all of these self-styled, and modern Jews, including the Zionist variety, derive their physical ancestry from the Khazars, of Mongolian and Turkish ancestry. Their spiritual roots are from a false god of the Pharisees. And their father is of the evil one, the snake that caused our downfall.

The true Israel are ALL peoples, from ALL blood lines that are the true and faithful believers in Christ, yesterday, today and tomorrow. They shall assemble and be restored in the future to their rightful place and state of inheritance, and into 'the land' promised by their fathers, of the promise given to Abraham, Amen. This is the New Jerusalem of the new heavens and new earth.
 

Keraz

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When scripture tells me that Joshua, then David and then Solomon fulfilled all the lands deals, I believe it, I do not add my own imaginations.
This not correct.
Judges 1:21-36 tells us that the ancient Israelites failed to totally drive out any of the Canaanite peoples. In all of the holy Land, other peoples remained and that was the cause of Israel and Judah's downfall, as they gradually became idolatrous. The Lord instigated the exile of Israel in 722-715 BC and Judah in 586 BC.
.those calling themselves Israel or a Jew today are not genuine in blood-line natural/nationality or spirit. They are not the Israel of God. They can be if they find Christ and be part of the spiritual Israel as the rest in the Body.

Christians should be over in their 'State' trying to convert them back to God, to be grafted into the Tree of Life as they are really from the other nations, and never were part of National Israel...and if it is his will of course to do so.
Right, the only way an Israeli, a citizen of the Jewish State, can become a person of the Israel of God, is to repent, accept Jesus and to keep His Commandments.

I have been to Israel and any attempt to convert Jews to Christianity, gets you thrown into jail.
The Will of God, is to destroy all the apostate and Jesus rejecting peoples. Commencing very soon with His terrible Day of fiery wrath, which will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, +
 

APAK

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This not correct.
Judges 1:21-36 tells us that the ancient Israelites failed to totally drive out any of the Canaanite peoples. In all of the holy Land, other peoples remained and that was the cause of Israel and Judah's downfall, as they gradually became idolatrous. The Lord instigated the exile of Israel in 722-715 BC and Judah in 586 BC.
Keraz, I think you have a view that is not intended in scripture. Regardless of whether the Israelites drove out all the Canaanites of 'their' land or not means nothing here. What counts is that they took possession of the land as promised and later could not remain in it because of their violations against God as spoken of, in Deuteronomy. It sound like the similar view of saying that the Israelites never inhabited from the Nile to the Euphrates so they are owed another chance to do so and therefore the gifting of this land to them was incomplete. It does not work that way. This particular Covenant was fulfilled. And as a result of their idolatrous life style behaviour they became exiled and enslaved by divine design as you pointed out.
 

Episkopos

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How could they be "fulfilled" when the nation of Israel (a) never possessed the land from the Nile to the Euphrates all at once, and (b) they were dispersed in 70 AD (and were out for almost 2,000 years), and now the nation-state of Israel occupies perhaps 1/10th of the Promised Land? Keep in mind that they are to possess this land for eternity.

This is conjecture as the bible states that God fulfilled that promise...to Israel. Abram's covenant included more than just Israel (but not less) including Ishmael and the nations listed in the following verse in Gen 15. Here is the verse that concludes the matter..

Josh. 21:43 So the Lord gave to Israel all the land of which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it.