Homosexuality

IHSscj · Dec 24, 2012

Posted by Raeneske, 17 December 2012 - 03:08 PM
,

The fact that God loves us all, did not stop Him from destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and did not stop Him from giving people up to their unclean lusts, and will not stop Him from destroying those disobedient ones at the end of the 1000 years. Homosexuality, is sinful, it’s a sinful lust towards man of the same kind. It’s like someone who wants to have sex with animals. It’s a sinful lust, and that’s all there is to it. God will save the homosexual from his sinful lust, if the homosexual wants to be freed from it. If they want to, they can have the grace of God. No one is saying it will happen immediately, but it will happen over time, they will slowly begin to notice their sinful lusts to vanish away, as they commit their works to the Lord.

You cannot systematically change the definitions of the words, when they are strictly pointing to each other. While you continually give different definitions from the word lust, you cannot separate it from the fact that they burned in lust towards each other. There is no other way for it to be interpreted. What you are saying about the Holy Spirit is downright not true. The Holy Spirit did leave you without any doubt as to which kind of lust it is. Lust to each other, how do we know it’s sexually? Men left the natural use of women, and burned in lust toward each other. Men stopped looking upon women, and looked to men and burned in their lust to men. It has nothing to do with FEM or the economy. Not a single thing. The Holy Spirit made it very clear.

You also talk about cherry-picking. What God showed in the Old Testament did not change about homosexuality today. As a matter of fact, He showed that in Romans His feelings upon homosexuality is the same. It is a vile lust, unclean, sinful. While God showed it was indeed an abomination in the OT, he showed again His hot displeasure for it in the New Testament. The Lord does not change. What He said sorely displeased Him before, He showed in the New Testament still sorely displeases Him. It is an abomination.

If the context of the passage leads you to believe anything else, you have been clearly lied to. Now, as people open up your understanding of what that passage truly means, God is looking for you to acknowledge the fact that that is what it means. I’m not asking you to repent in front of me, I am not God. I am saying, scripture oh so clearly points to it being a sexual lust, and not any other kind of lust, by the simple use of a MAN LEAVING WOMEN AS A NATURAL USE to LUSTING AFTER EACH OTHER. There is no other definition even implied here. Excuse my all caps, I am just using the greatest emphasis possible.

The fact that God loves us all, did not stop Him from destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and did not stop Him from giving people up to their unclean lusts, and will not stop Him from destroying those disobedient ones at the end of the 1000 years. Homosexuality, is sinful…

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ But I still need to know how you know that Homosexuality, is sinful.

[Homosexuality is] a sinful lust towards man of the same kind.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Please clarify.

It’s like someone who wants to have sex with animals.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I remember that, in grade school, we were assigned to compare and contrast things. I am certain that you & I can do the same now with gayness and bestiality – in nice, neat columns if you like. But let’s stick to the focus.

It’s a sinful lust, and that’s all there is to it.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ How do you know? (HDYK?)

God will save the homosexual from his sinful lust, if the homosexual wants to be freed from it. If they want to, they can have the grace of God. No one is saying it will happen immediately, but it will happen over time, they will slowly begin to notice their sinful lusts to vanish away, as they commit their works to the Lord.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Very nice, but see my post # 1059: “the steps toward an ex-gay life in Christ, as I understand them, are:
1. Examine what, if anything, the Holy Spirit is using scripture to say about gayness.
2. Study the results of the above (step 1.) thoroughly to see how to apply it in one's life in practical terms.
3. Wait for the gay feelings to subside. Then wait for the same some more. Then wait for the same some more. Then wait for the same some more......
But, if that is correct, let's leave steps 2. & 3. aside for now. We have a lot of work to do on step 1. !”

You cannot systematically change the definitions of the words, when they are strictly pointing to each other.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ And at what point does scripture reveal them to be pointing to each other? Perhaps someone educated in ancient Greek can post something about the grammatical relationship of the two?

While you continually give different definitions from the word lust, you cannot separate it from the fact that they burned in lust towards each other.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I take “burned” as a way of saying that their lust was extreme, which is outrageous (i.e. mind-blowing), since lust is already extreme by definition. So anyone lusting toward another person, as opposed toward something else, could be understood as sexual. But where does scripture say that that was what it was? (WDSST?)

There is no other way for it to be interpreted.
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ (HDYK?)

What you are saying about the Holy Spirit is downright not true. The Holy Spirit did leave you without any doubt as to which kind of lust it is.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Then where does scripture reveal it?

Lust to each other, how do we know it’s sexually? Men left the natural use of women, and burned in lust toward each other. Men stopped looking upon women, and looked to men and burned in their lust to men.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ In how many ways can a man look upon a woman? If a man is employed in a job where there are female coworkers, does he have to look upon them sexually, or are there other ways? And what about other situations, like casual encounters on a sidewalk? or at the store? or dropping the kids off at school? In any of these situations, can someone not want more than what God has in Mind for him/her, in any number of ways? Where is the (supposed) sexual aspect of the lust to which Paul was referring revealed?
If the dictionary has other definitions, shouldn’t I expect some kind of indication in scripture that points to one or the other (assuming that the meaning of the words translated “lust” are not to be taken as general references – to all kinds of desires, but taken too far)?

It has nothing to do with FEM or the economy. Not a single thing. The Holy Spirit made it very clear.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ HDYK?

You also talk about cherry-picking. What God showed in the Old Testament did not change about homosexuality today.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ HDYK?

As a matter of fact, He showed that in Romans His feelings upon homosexuality is the same. It is a vile lust, unclean, sinful. While God showed it was indeed an abomination in the OT, he showed again His hot displeasure for it in the New Testament.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ So we have a set of three ideas: 1. The to’ebah of the Hebrew Scriptures, 2.
The orexei of Paul’s Letter to the Romans, and 3. “modern” gayness (which some say does not change). How does scripture reveal the three of them to be connected?

The Lord does not change.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ How does the nature of God relate to what God wants us to do?

What He said sorely displeased Him before, He showed in the New Testament still sorely displeases Him.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ WDSST?

It is an abomination.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Gayness is an abomination? HDYK?

If the context of the passage leads you to believe anything else, you have been clearly lied to.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Here we have a pretty picture. 1. Does the context, or, for that matter, the bible as a whole, “say” anything? The bible is an inanimate object! Or, by extension, it is a phenomenon in which humans use the same inanimate object. But it is God Who actively speaks through the bible. C’mon, you know this! 2. If someone has lied to me about scripture, surely it is time to reference 2 Tim 3: 16- 17 and point out where scripture says what you say it says. If you mean that humans in the lgbtqa community have lied to me, well, that is possible – every human being is subject to error, sin, deception, etc. This, in turn is why I keep asking things like WDSST? and HDYK? Of course I can be mistaken – so can you. Show me how your understanding is derived from scripture, then we will bypass human error.

Now, as people open up your understanding of what that passage truly means, God is looking for you to acknowledge the fact that that is what it means.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ “the fact that what is what it means?” that human understandings (presented here or elsewhere) are what scripture means? or that God’s Truth, whether I understand it clearly or not, is what it means? I implicitly trust Christ my Savior to use scripture to reveal to me (& everyone else) the truth – before I understand it. I can trust Him to take my limited understanding of any scripture – in Romans 1, or in Nahum, or wherever – and show me what I need to know.

I’m not asking you to repent in front of me, I am not God.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ TY.

I am saying, scripture oh so clearly points to it being a sexual lust, and not any other kind of lust, by the simple use of a MAN LEAVING WOMEN AS A NATURAL USE to LUSTING AFTER EACH OTHER. There is no other definition even implied here. Excuse my all caps, I am just using the greatest emphasis possible.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I am seeing a disturbing trend here: You (& others on this board) make a statement; I ask a question about it, usually referencing scripture; you respond, not by answering, but by repeating the statement, changing the subject, or asking general questions. All of this points to an apparent need on your part for me to believe what you say, not because you can point out how you (or any human being) derived your understanding from scripture, but because you are somehow sure that it is true. Let's look at II Tim 3: 16- 17: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that someone of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
If you consider yourself to be teaching me, rebuking me, correcting me, or training me in righteousness, why are making it seem as if your understanding comes from anywhere but scripture? And if you are doing anything else but these four, what is it?
Let digress a moment: I understand the discernment of God's Will in terms of the Wesleyan quadrilateral: The four main means of discerning the Will of God are: 1. scripture, 2. tradition, 3. personal experience, and 4. reason (logic). (Of course, I would tend to emphasize scripture, but the other three are still in the picture.) So if we read Exodus 20: 15, we can take that as the major premise; understand that, by definition, shoplifting is a form of theft, and take that as the minor premise; and reach the conclusion quite easily that shoplifting is sinful. When I ask "HDYK?" or "WDSST?," (see above) I am asking for the grounding of the (supposed) truth of gayness being sinful. If the grounding is in nothing but the sinking sand of human thought, well, there we are. But, otherwise, perhaps the Holy Spirit will lead you answer some of my questions.

dragonfly · Dec 25, 2012

I believe this testimony given by marksman here, is relevant to those reading this thread seeking the Lord for answers.

'At our first national residential conference, at he end of the evening meeting, people were invited to the front for prayer. Being one of the conference leaders, it was my job to do the praying.

The first person that I spoke to said "I am a homosexual and I don't want to be."

"Are you serious God. Couldn't you have given me something easy to start with."

I threw the towel in without trying. I said that I would have to consult with others about this and I would get back to him.

I spoke to some other leaders and they said they would ask the Lord about it and get back to me. Next morning one of them said to me "We think that you are the one to deal with the situation." No amount of protestations would change his mind so I began to wonder what it was like walking on the water.

I met up with the young man after breakfast and told him what had transpired. I asked him if he was OK with that and he said yes all he wanted was not to be homosexual.

We went to a private room and and I stepped out onto the water. I spent some time going through relevant scripture and then said I was going to lay hands on him and pray for him to be freed from the spirit of homosexuality.

He was sat on a settee and I laid hands on him and commanded the spirit to leave. He screamed out fell to the floor and sobbed. In that moment of time he was delivered of the spirit.

How do I know? I saw him many months later and he introduced me to his girlfriend. The next time I saw him he introduced me to his fiancée. The next time he introduced me to his wife (all one and the same). The next time he introduced me to his baby son.

Theologically, I am sure someone can shoot me down in flames, but I know what I know and saw what I saw and for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Or to put it simply you can say "that is a plum pudding." I say, "How do I know." The reply is "Eat it." I eat it and say "Yes, that is a plum pudding."

NOW, if the box it came in said it was a rice pudding, I would have to say "sorry, but that is not correct. Someone put it in the wrong box." Which means, words alone can be insufficient.

Rex · Dec 25, 2012

There is a lot of information shared here but all of it is of no use or value until IHSscj sorts out for himself the sin or definition, of the unrest with-in himself.

I don't believe hes convinced in his heart that homosexuality is a sin, what some homosexuals do is consider it a sin only when it reaches the state of burning lust, but apparent genuine love between two same sex individuals in not a sin. It looks to me like IHSscj is at a very critical point in his life a real struggle that to me revels itself in the tossing back and forth pleading for a clear and definite black and white explanation about the state of affairs he finds himself in.

Is it a sin or is it not? is there a state homosexuality becomes an exceptionable practice in Gods eyes? for many it my be a clear and unquestionable answer, but to those that suffer and struggle, are at war with-in, things are not always so clearly visible.

Of course this is simply my 2 cents

aspen · Dec 29, 2012

Are homosexuals capable of love?

Foreigner · Dec 29, 2012

Are homosexuals capable of loving God?

Rex · Dec 29, 2012

Foreigner said:
Are homosexuals capable of loving God?

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17195-our-significant-other-companion/#entry179117
I myself found this post to be a bit offensive

aspen · Dec 30, 2012

why does my opinion which is based on scriptue and has nothing to do with the topic of homosexuality, offend you, Rex?

KingJ · Dec 30, 2012

Just my two cents on this topic.

Why are Christians so judge-mental of gays? Because they call themselves Christians. Christians judge Christians according to scripture. You don't want to be judged? DON'T call yourself a Christian. Try being Muslim, mock Muhammed and tell fellow Muslims not to judge you. LOL.

Does the bible condone Homo-sexuality? As Jimmy Swaggart correctly said. If God did, He needs to apologize for Sodom and Gomorrah.

How can you feel like a Christian and still be homosexual? God handed you over to a reprobate mind a while back. You are living in an extremity of sin and done this act so often that the Holy Spirit has given up convicting you.

Does God love gays? Yes, He loves them, not their sin.

Are there degrees of sin? Yes. But it takes some Christian maturity to grasp it. Sin is sin for an unsaved person as any sin cannot be in God's presence. But for a saved person, we are going from glory to glory. We should not be murdering, but we will be battling those constant evil thoughts bombarded at us by this evil world.

Example and conclusion: As a Christian we can consider ourselves married or engaged to Christ. Now we know that Jesus says in marriage that if one commits adultery we can get a divorce but we do better to take them back. But what if they commit adultery ongoing, for six months? If my wife had to think about another man / watch porn, I will forgive her if she tells me and repents, we will need to and will be able to, work on it. If she commits adultery, but only a 'once-off', I will see it as a big mistake by her and if she tells me and asks for forgiveness, I will try my best to forgive her and take her back. But if she commits adultery CONSISTENTLY for a period of say 6 months. Even if she asks for forgiveness I CANNOT take her back. It will not be a 'once-off' mistake. Rather a change of heart. She now loves someone else. Whether it be them or the sin of lust. Whichever, they are both greater then her love for me. So I will promptly divorce. LIKEWISE with God!!!! When we continue in an extremity of sin we can lose our salvation. God never leaves nor forsakes us, but we do Him. This is the unpardonable sin of grieving / cursing the Holy Spirit. Sure, cursing the Holy Spirit should simply be '''cursing'' Him. But because we are in the flesh, Our ''cursing'' Him is not always at the depth of a 'spiritual cursing' like the angels did to God and immediately got kicked out with no return. Hence in the flesh we would need to curse the Holy Spirit a number of times and at an extremity of rebellion. Homosexuality IS an extremity of sin. It is one that will cause you to curse the Holy Spirit and bring about a change of hearts desire. You will find yourself in hell one-day. I would love you less if I lied to you and said, you are fine, continue as you are.

When many mature / respected Christians agree that homo-sexuality is a sin and an extremity of inner rebellion. Only fools would ignore this! You have nothing to lose from stopping it, but so much if you don't. If you cannot stop the flesh from doing something, who is in control? your flesh or spirit? If we live with the flesh in control we can expect death (Rom 8:13, Gal 5:16).

Just to add.....If you are homo-sexual AFTER GOD MADE YOU A CERTAIN SEX....you are saying that God is dumb (for making you the sex He did) ...If God is not dumb, who is in the wrong?

Raeneske · Dec 30, 2012

IHSscj said:
Posted by Raeneske, 17 December 2012 - 03:08 PM
,

The fact that God loves us all, did not stop Him from destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and did not stop Him from giving people up to their unclean lusts, and will not stop Him from destroying those disobedient ones at the end of the 1000 years. Homosexuality, is sinful…

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ But I still need to know how you know that Homosexuality, is sinful.

[Homosexuality is] a sinful lust towards man of the same kind.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Please clarify.

It’s like someone who wants to have sex with animals.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I remember that, in grade school, we were assigned to compare and contrast things. I am certain that you & I can do the same now with gayness and bestiality – in nice, neat columns if you like. But let’s stick to the focus.

It’s a sinful lust, and that’s all there is to it.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ How do you know? (HDYK?)

God will save the homosexual from his sinful lust, if the homosexual wants to be freed from it. If they want to, they can have the grace of God. No one is saying it will happen immediately, but it will happen over time, they will slowly begin to notice their sinful lusts to vanish away, as they commit their works to the Lord.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Very nice, but see my post # 1059: “the steps toward an ex-gay life in Christ, as I understand them, are:
1. Examine what, if anything, the Holy Spirit is using scripture to say about gayness.
2. Study the results of the above (step 1.) thoroughly to see how to apply it in one's life in practical terms.
3. Wait for the gay feelings to subside. Then wait for the same some more. Then wait for the same some more. Then wait for the same some more......
But, if that is correct, let's leave steps 2. & 3. aside for now. We have a lot of work to do on step 1. !”

You cannot systematically change the definitions of the words, when they are strictly pointing to each other.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ And at what point does scripture reveal them to be pointing to each other? Perhaps someone educated in ancient Greek can post something about the grammatical relationship of the two?

While you continually give different definitions from the word lust, you cannot separate it from the fact that they burned in lust towards each other.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I take “burned” as a way of saying that their lust was extreme, which is outrageous (i.e. mind-blowing), since lust is already extreme by definition. So anyone lusting toward another person, as opposed toward something else, could be understood as sexual. But where does scripture say that that was what it was? (WDSST?)

There is no other way for it to be interpreted.
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ (HDYK?)

What you are saying about the Holy Spirit is downright not true. The Holy Spirit did leave you without any doubt as to which kind of lust it is.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Then where does scripture reveal it?

Lust to each other, how do we know it’s sexually? Men left the natural use of women, and burned in lust toward each other. Men stopped looking upon women, and looked to men and burned in their lust to men.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ In how many ways can a man look upon a woman? If a man is employed in a job where there are female coworkers, does he have to look upon them sexually, or are there other ways? And what about other situations, like casual encounters on a sidewalk? or at the store? or dropping the kids off at school? In any of these situations, can someone not want more than what God has in Mind for him/her, in any number of ways? Where is the (supposed) sexual aspect of the lust to which Paul was referring revealed?
If the dictionary has other definitions, shouldn’t I expect some kind of indication in scripture that points to one or the other (assuming that the meaning of the words translated “lust” are not to be taken as general references – to all kinds of desires, but taken too far)?

It has nothing to do with FEM or the economy. Not a single thing. The Holy Spirit made it very clear.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ HDYK?

You also talk about cherry-picking. What God showed in the Old Testament did not change about homosexuality today.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ HDYK?

As a matter of fact, He showed that in Romans His feelings upon homosexuality is the same. It is a vile lust, unclean, sinful. While God showed it was indeed an abomination in the OT, he showed again His hot displeasure for it in the New Testament.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ So we have a set of three ideas: 1. The to’ebah of the Hebrew Scriptures, 2.
The orexei of Paul’s Letter to the Romans, and 3. “modern” gayness (which some say does not change). How does scripture reveal the three of them to be connected?

The Lord does not change.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ How does the nature of God relate to what God wants us to do?

What He said sorely displeased Him before, He showed in the New Testament still sorely displeases Him.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ WDSST?

It is an abomination.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Gayness is an abomination? HDYK?

If the context of the passage leads you to believe anything else, you have been clearly lied to.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Here we have a pretty picture. 1. Does the context, or, for that matter, the bible as a whole, “say” anything? The bible is an inanimate object! Or, by extension, it is a phenomenon in which humans use the same inanimate object. But it is God Who actively speaks through the bible. C’mon, you know this! 2. If someone has lied to me about scripture, surely it is time to reference 2 Tim 3: 16- 17 and point out where scripture says what you say it says. If you mean that humans in the lgbtqa community have lied to me, well, that is possible – every human being is subject to error, sin, deception, etc. This, in turn is why I keep asking things like WDSST? and HDYK? Of course I can be mistaken – so can you. Show me how your understanding is derived from scripture, then we will bypass human error.

Now, as people open up your understanding of what that passage truly means, God is looking for you to acknowledge the fact that that is what it means.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ “the fact that what is what it means?” that human understandings (presented here or elsewhere) are what scripture means? or that God’s Truth, whether I understand it clearly or not, is what it means? I implicitly trust Christ my Savior to use scripture to reveal to me (& everyone else) the truth – before I understand it. I can trust Him to take my limited understanding of any scripture – in Romans 1, or in Nahum, or wherever – and show me what I need to know.

I’m not asking you to repent in front of me, I am not God.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ TY.

I am saying, scripture oh so clearly points to it being a sexual lust, and not any other kind of lust, by the simple use of a MAN LEAVING WOMEN AS A NATURAL USE to LUSTING AFTER EACH OTHER. There is no other definition even implied here. Excuse my all caps, I am just using the greatest emphasis possible.

_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I am seeing a disturbing trend here: You (& others on this board) make a statement; I ask a question about it, usually referencing scripture; you respond, not by answering, but by repeating the statement, changing the subject, or asking general questions. All of this points to an apparent need on your part for me to believe what you say, not because you can point out how you (or any human being) derived your understanding from scripture, but because you are somehow sure that it is true. Let's look at II Tim 3: 16- 17: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that someone of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
If you consider yourself to be teaching me, rebuking me, correcting me, or training me in righteousness, why are making it seem as if your understanding comes from anywhere but scripture? And if you are doing anything else but these four, what is it?
Let digress a moment: I understand the discernment of God's Will in terms of the Wesleyan quadrilateral: The four main means of discerning the Will of God are: 1. scripture, 2. tradition, 3. personal experience, and 4. reason (logic). (Of course, I would tend to emphasize scripture, but the other three are still in the picture.) So if we read Exodus 20: 15, we can take that as the major premise; understand that, by definition, shoplifting is a form of theft, and take that as the minor premise; and reach the conclusion quite easily that shoplifting is sinful. When I ask "HDYK?" or "WDSST?," (see above) I am asking for the grounding of the (supposed) truth of gayness being sinful. If the grounding is in nothing but the sinking sand of human thought, well, there we are. But, otherwise, perhaps the Holy Spirit will lead you answer some of my questions.

I know because I understand what scripture is referring to. I know it was prophesied to be as the days of Sodom and Gomorrah when our Lord came, so I know that people will twist scripture to make homosexuality look like it's approved by God. So I know, whosoever has showed you what they have, and has said what they have to you are lying to you, plain and simple.

If you reason with the context of the scripture, you will see that it does not refer to FEM or anything else whatsoever. Things are spiritually discerned.

Any struggling homosexual who will accept that their sin is homosexuality, and accept that they want freedom from it, will get it. But that's when they accept it. If they refuse to accept it, they may end up dying in their sins.

It doesn't take an educated man, it doesn't take a theologian, it doesn't take a pastor, it doesn't take a preacher, nor a Jesuit, etc. to understand what scripture is saying. I understand, in these days men will most likely take scripture and twist it to suit their own needs. It's the time we live in. But last time I checked --- all it takes is a humble, willing spirit to learn what the Lord feels. I'm not going to sit down, and systematically twist scriptures, or have someone else systematically twist them to suit my own needs. When I learn what I have been doing was sin, I in fact must give it up --- no matter the struggle.

God made man, MAN, for a reason. If he wanted you to be a woman, He would have made you that way. If He wanted you to be someone who multiplied with the same sex, He would have made you that way. God did not make anyone gay, nor does He ever. He's not an idiot --- He knows what He is doing. If He wanted the man to be attracted to man --- He would have made them that way.

Again, if you have trouble understanding --- look at the context of what you are reading. It is not talking about FEM, as men have left the natural use of women --- Nature itself shows you men and women go together --- Therefore they have left such a natural use, and God has given them up to their vile affections since they did not like to retain God in their minds. Now here's the key, the people in turn left the natural use of the opposite sex, and burned in lust towards the same sex. This has nothing to do with the economy. This is how you know what God is talking about. The attention paid here, is to gender. The men left the natural use of woman, and burned in lust towards one another. Men then turned the gender which they left natural use of, towards the same gender. They then began to burn in lust towards those of their same gender. Why? Because they did not like to retain God in their minds. Some did not like to hear the Gospel, and some actually refuse to hear the truth towards homosexuality. This is a sexual tone --- why? Because scripture leads it to mean that. Not me, not the guy next door, not your best friend, and not your enemy. Scripture itself leads into that meaning, so that there can be no mistake. This is how I know --- I accept scripture for what it says, and not what I want it to say. Systematically changing every single word so it does not lead to homosexuality, will never change what this passage means. Scripture is plain on homosexuality. It is a sin. It of course, is more open, and more looked down upon than others. Sometimes things like pride, or arrogance, or hypocrisy are ignored, when God plainly and clearly hates those sins as well. Those are disgusting themselves. But that's not the point. The point is --- homosexuality is a sin. Those who do not wish it to be true will be left to receive the lies of Satan. Those who will learn the truth, will be open to it, and will hear it.

If anyone is a homosexual, they can check out some ex-gay testimonies. You can be free, just like everyone else who has an issue with sin. I struggle to, I call it a mind sin, but I guess it's a heart sin as well. Where I can and will instantly curse, or think a very evil thought in my heart. I hate it, with a passion. It's incredibly hard to control. But I'm still pushing. Sometimes I feel like giving up, but I won't. I don't know why it's so hard to control my own mind, I cannot even understand such a thing. But it's a struggle, nonetheless. No one said all this would immediately go away, and the struggle is sometimes longer and more horrid than you can imagine. There was never a promise that it would be easy. It's just promised that it will be worth it. Any homosexual --- There's a promise that you have help, and there's a promise that it will be worth it.

KingJ · Dec 31, 2012

Amen Raeneske. Good post!

It is frustratting though as I feel you are wasting your time. IHSscj is dodging and giving the run around. We can like good Christians explain everything but it so quickly becomes casting pearl before swine as its very likely that God has already handed them over to a reprobate mind. Especially if they know scripture.

I have had success witnessing to 'unsaved' gays. ''Christian'' / ex-''Christian'', no success

.

Brothertom · Dec 31, 2012

"So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them!"

"Emergent" or "Extreme Grace" presupposes that because "God is Love" He loves us just like we are, & that is the root of the lie. God is Holy also, & can only receive holiness unto Himself. "Without Holiness NO MAN can see God!"

This means man must turn around toward God; Re-pent, & repent to God's Spirit in your heart attitude. Holiness is washing our "Heart-Robes", along with abstaining from sin; and fornication, & sodomite fornication is unclean before God, right along with more subtle heart-sins like GREED.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God!"

God puts the Sodomite right smack in the middle of the mob of iniquity, but doesn't seem to differientiate between them, & the hetero-adulterers, the hetero-greedy, or the hetero-drunk; they will ALL be left outside Heaven.

Yes, we must make a stand, but let us realize that our God is merciful , to those who want Him, Sodomite, murderer, or adulterer: He is in the business of redeeming sinners, just like you & me.

I do despise the fact however, that as a Nation embracing Darwinism, we now teach natural selection morality to our 1st Graders. Since we came from the primordal goo-ameoba-centipede-frog-fish-snake-ground-hog-dinosaur- monkey-man, & God is a dead/myth, then Mother-Earth demands allegience to her status alone: Be yourself, what-ever- & who-ever you choose, & there is no morality except that which you like, or adhere to, for we are all just animal evolutionary beings..[ not created].

THIS IS HUMANISM AT HER HEIGHTS!

Then, There are no absolutes; Everything is relative; Especially morality! There IS NO SIN! just elective permissive choice that satisfy the man, whatever his bag is. This is not new. NOAH'S DAY.

"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

Humanism again, bearing her fruit; always the same. Consider Sodom; the name-sake YET TODAY of the homosexual sin. It is written that the ENTIRE CITY ..everybody...children too...came out to see the unfortunate traveler brutally raped to death & murdered; AS SPORT! Can you imagine the moral logic here? This was planned, by an entire society: ABOMINATION.

Our entire culture is now becoming saturated with this one & same anti-Family agenda; designed to destroy true faith in a holy God, & embolden the Devil himself as we accept this as the NORM. "My teacher told me!"......In the military?! Marriage LAWS?

Historically, God has always followed a nation that promoted such with His Wrath. But, we're America, Right?

marksman · Jan 3, 2013

But I still need to know how you know that Homosexuality, is sinful.

To know that you have to study the whole revelation of sexuality in scriptures. I have done this and the overall conclusion is that all sex outside the marriage of a man and a woman is sinful.

That covers, fornication, adultery, sodomy, paedophilia, sex with animals, rape, homosexuality or anything else you can think off that takes place outside the God approved male/female marriage.

God made it clear and Jesus backed him up. In Genesis 2:24, God said a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. No other configuration was considered for the simple reason God created man's psychological and emotional DNA to function effectively as a husband or a wife.

Jesus referred to his Father's plan in Matthew19:5 when He said, "For this reason a man shall leave father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh" repeating what God said in Genesis. 2:24.

Not joined to his boyfriend girlfriend, lover, sex provider etc. Someone one said that every time you have sex with someone who is not your wife/husband you give a bit of yourself away to your detriment.

That means any other configuration/action is NOT the will of God and when we ignore this fact, we are bit by bit destroying our emotional/psychological selves.

Brothertom, I sense a prophetic tone to your last post. It sounded like a finely tuned instrument and there was nothing uncertain about its sound.

KingJ · Jan 3, 2013

marksman said:
To know that you have to study the whole revelation of sexuality in scriptures. I have done this and the overall conclusion is that all sex outside the marriage of a man and a woman is sinful.

That covers, fornication, adultery, sodomy, paedophilia, sex with animals, rape, homosexuality or anything else you can think off that takes place outside the God approved male/female marriage.

True. We must just be careful not to miss the seriousness of being gay by comparing it to other sin. It is up there with the sexual immoral sins requiring an extremity of inner rebellion to God.

Not joined to his boyfriend girlfriend, lover, sex provider etc. Someone one said that every time you have sex with someone who is not your wife/husband you give a bit of yourself away to your detriment.

That means any other configuration/action is NOT the will of God and when we ignore this fact, we are bit by bit destroying our emotional/psychological selves.

Amen!

mjrhealth · Jan 3, 2013

Picking on people again oh how satan loves christians. Now when a christan walks down the rd and sees a pretty lady and gets an awfull thought, he or she is in sin funny thing is the penalty is teh same death and Christ died for both. Now christians love telling everyone else what bad sinners they are, odd thing Jesus never did, He simply said " go sin no more". Now the lady who was being chased by the people for her adultry, did Jesus cal her a sinner, no, He simply pointed out to the people ( replace with christians) that they are all sinners and shouldnt be throwing stones, than when the yleft, He asked her " where are your "ACCUSERS", she said there where none, and what did He say,

Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now " christians" stop accusing people that is teh enemies duty, not yours, do you want to be found as one of them or will you be like Jesus and say. 'Neither do I condmen thee".

In all His Love

KingJ · Jan 4, 2013

mjrhealth said:
Picking on people again oh how satan loves christians. Now when a christan walks down the rd and sees a pretty lady and gets an awfull thought, he or she is in sin funny thing is the penalty is teh same death and Christ died for both. Now christians love telling everyone else what bad sinners they are, odd thing Jesus never did, He simply said " go sin no more". Now the lady who was being chased by the people for her adultry, did Jesus cal her a sinner, no, He simply pointed out to the people ( replace with christians) that they are all sinners and shouldnt be throwing stones, than when the yleft, He asked her " where are your "ACCUSERS", she said there where none, and what did He say,

Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now " christians" stop accusing people that is teh enemies duty, not yours, do you want to be found as one of them or will you be like Jesus and say. 'Neither do I condmen thee".

In all His Love

1 Cor 6:3 'Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life'?

What you fail to grasp is that Christians are to judge all things! Judging is not comdemning! The devil wants us to stick our head in the ground.

If someone wants to stay gay, they dare call themselves a Christian. When anyone calls themselves a Christian they open themselves up to judgment according to Christian standards. Duh? Try calling yourself a Muslim and dis-respect Muhammad. Go study how Paul rebuked Christians for sexual immorality! Rather don't call yourself a Christian and fall into the bracket, where Paul says of sinners who are not Christians, 'there go I BUT by the grace of God'.

Now if we are a Christian. We should grasp that we are going from glory to glory. 'Sin' is not 'sin'. There are extremities of it. Sure, if we are not saved, since NO sin, even the smallest can be in God's presence, we can say that 'sin is sin'.

Consider marriage. Will you divorce if your partner thinks about adultery? If they have a 'once-off' mistake? If they continue in it for six months? We are in a relationship with God. We are to think of ourselves as married or engaged to Christ!

Continuing in an extremity of sin will cause us to LOSE our salvation! I will divorce my wife if she continues in adultery. It shows a complete change of hearts desire. Sure thinking it is bad, but still something that we can work on. Something that I can trust and expect to hear sincere repentance on. God will forgive 7 x 70 times a day for sincere repentance. Who would trust their partner's repentance after 6 months of adultery? Sure, it may take longer with God, He does know all the factors and influences on a person.

Homo-sexuality IS an extremity of sin! Lets not be naive.

Lets NOT love our neighbour to hell.

Foreigner · Jan 4, 2013

mjrhealth said:
Picking on people again oh how satan loves christians. Now when a christan walks down the rd and sees a pretty lady and gets an awfull thought, he or she is in sin funny thing is the penalty is teh same death and Christ died for both. Now christians love telling everyone else what bad sinners they are, odd thing Jesus never did, He simply said " go sin no more". Now the lady who was being chased by the people for her adultry, did Jesus cal her a sinner, no, He simply pointed out to the people ( replace with christians) that they are all sinners and shouldnt be throwing stones, than when the yleft, He asked her " where are your "ACCUSERS", she said there where none, and what did He say,

Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now " christians" stop accusing people that is teh enemies duty, not yours, do you want to be found as one of them or will you be like Jesus and say. 'Neither do I condmen thee".

In all His Love

-- You don't post very often, Mr. Heath, but when you do, you shovel with both hands.

"odd thing Jesus never did, He simply said " go sin no more". - Are you kidding. Jesus spoke of sin and the dangers of sin all...the...time.
Or did you miss, "And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire."

And as for Christ saying, "Go and sin no more" that meant that the person he was speaking to understood that what he/she was doing was a sin, it was not acceptable, and God expected him/her to no longer participate in that sin.
It also meant - as it means today - that if that person returned to that life of sin, they would pay the penalty for that sin. Damnation.

And as far as " Now christians love telling everyone else what bad sinners they are," you make an unsupported blanket accusation of all Christians.
And that makes you part of the problem, not the solution

Let's stick with homosexuality. I have never carried a sign saying homosexuals are going to hell.
Never stood with someone who did.
Never publically spoke about homosexuality or that those who practice it are committing sin.
Never been part of a public forum or discussion group on the topic.
I have never attended a homosexual event and attempted to witness to them.

But when someone learns I am a Christian many (but nowhere near every one of the homosexuals I encounter) are in my face telling me I have not right to judge them.
I let them know that I don't judge them. God does.

I tell them that I too was and am a sinner.
I tell them that if I would have died without turning away from sin, I too would have gone to hell when I died.
I tell them that I try but still commit sin, but I seek forgiveness and since I am sincere, Jesus forgives me.
I let them know that God has just as much trouble with lying, stealing, adultery, etc. etc. etc. and those that do not turn away from that are condemned, as well.
I also let them know that Jesus loves - as they are right now - as much as he loves me.
I tell them that the sin in their lives doesn't cause Him not to love them. But that if WE do not remove the sin from OUR lives, His love will not prevent us from paying the penalty.

Please get a grip Mr. Heath. One whine does not fit all.

.

mjrhealth · Jan 4, 2013

Sorry Kingj we have no right to judge any man, we are not perfect as He is perfect neither do we judge as He judges, and as the "bible" says

,Luk_6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luk_12:57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

And foreigner, if you did not count as one of them than there would of being no need to post. It is difficult, one cannot show the love of God in words, one can only show Love, Its a difficult thing to find even in christians.

In His Love

Raeneske · Jan 4, 2013

mjrhealth said:
Picking on people again oh how satan loves christians. Now when a christan walks down the rd and sees a pretty lady and gets an awfull thought, he or she is in sin funny thing is the penalty is teh same death and Christ died for both. Now christians love telling everyone else what bad sinners they are, odd thing Jesus never did, He simply said " go sin no more". Now the lady who was being chased by the people for her adultry, did Jesus cal her a sinner, no, He simply pointed out to the people ( replace with christians) that they are all sinners and shouldnt be throwing stones, than when the yleft, He asked her " where are your "ACCUSERS", she said there where none, and what did He say,

Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Now " christians" stop accusing people that is teh enemies duty, not yours, do you want to be found as one of them or will you be like Jesus and say. 'Neither do I condmen thee".

In all His Love

"Go, and sin no more"

Yet it was very evident that Jesus knew she was in sin, so He had to tell her, "Go and sin no more". Jesus was demonstrating His mercy upon the poor sinner, and also showing how He would not allow stoning to be done anymore to people. So, when a Christian must point out to a homosexual that he is in sin, we are to tell them the love of Christ, how He will forgive them, and not condemn them, if they accept His offer, and they "Go, and sin no more".

And quite contrary. Jesus said, "Beware of the Leaven for the Pharisees". John had great boldness in saying, "Ye generation of vipers". What about when Jesus said, "Woe unto you..." or "Ye hypocrites!" It is a spiritual warfare. We are to rebuke sin. We are to rebuke open and bold sin. Yes, Christians, just like anybody else, makes mistakes in their lives. That they are aware of. But when someone will come on this board, and state homosexuality is not a sin, we are to rebuke them. It is a loving rebuke we are to give of course, but nonetheless, we are to rebuke them. We are to bear a sharp and pointed testimony. Not our words, to hurt someone, but by the great plainness, and great boldness of our speech. We are to show them that they are in sin.

mjrhealth · Jan 5, 2013

Revelation, thats what Christians need.

Well here goes...

Joh_14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Problem is, when you go pointing the finger they dont see God, they just see self righteous christans judging them,

Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Lest see how Jesus responds to teh Pharisees,

Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I hope you can see...

In all His Love

Raeneske · Jan 5, 2013

mjrhealth said:
Revelation, thats what Christians need.

Well here goes...

Joh_14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Problem is, when you go pointing the finger they dont see God, they just see self righteous christans judging them,

Mat 9:9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Lest see how Jesus responds to teh Pharisees,

Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

I hope you can see...

In all His Love

Again, rebuking the world of their iniquity is not finger pointing. It is pointing out the cherished sinfulness of the world. You are a Christian, that is your job. This is why there have been so few men in the Christian era who have been as John the Baptist, or Elisha. They will not a bear an unflinching testimony. No matter what you do, you're going to end up offending someone. I can go to a friend with all the love possible, and show them they are in sin, and they will turn around straightway and revile me. They love their sins, more than they love God.

Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Ecclesiates 7:5 It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

No one is asking a Christian to be loveless. We rebuke in love, not in hatrid. The fact that a homosexual openly embraces their sin, is no different than someone else who openly embraces watching porn. It is a sin, and it needs to be shown. "Am I your enemy because I tell you the truth".

And finally, Christians aren't judging to tell someone what the Word of God says. It would be God who is judging that person, Christians are simply to repeat the testimonies given to them within the Word of God. If you have a problem with what is said, you have a problem with Jesus. You are rejecting the one He sent to warn you of your dangers, and therefore reject Christ. This is why they (the Pharisees) hated Christ. Sin was rebuked, but Christ still had compassion. He did not cloak their sins, no, He openly showed how sin has brought the wretched ruin an sickness upon them who needed healing.

Jesus ate with publicans and sinners becaus our Compassionate Saviour knew what He was doing. While there, He could plant the divine principles in their heads. In FRONT OF THEM Christ rebuked them. He did not hold back His testimony, He had a job to do.

Luke 11:37-47 And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat. And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner. And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them. Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.

Homosexuality

Is homosexuality a sin?

Yes

No

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

New Member

New Member

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

New Member

New Member

New Member

All for Jesus no matter the cost.

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Similar threads