Homosexuality

marksman said:

What a strange comment. How on earth would you know whether I do or don't read my posts before posting? Do you have ESP? If I don't you have given me faint praise as my posts are word and spelling perfect so I must have a perfect typing ability.


So you keep saying. I am fully aware that you are superior to me and know everything and I don't so I will just have to accept the cross I have been given.


I wasn't aware that you wanted to discuss anything with anyone. I was under the impression that this forum was for you to be able to advise us of the truth and for us to accept it.

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I am going to forgive you for thinking that. Reading my posts here I can see that I have come across as the 'all knowing' and I apologize to all who were offended by my posts appearing arrogant. But only here on this thread! -_-. This subject is close to home. I know my facts!

Our discussion of churches should be on another 'less tension' thread. I might use less exclamation marks there .

whitestone said:

Yes, to answer the OP, homosexuality is a sin before the Lord. All sins kill the sinner. It doesn't matter which sins, anyone who practices sin is dead in their sin. We all need to repent of our sins and go and sin no more in the power of Christ come and living in you. If you still sin, it is the "fruit" of evidence that Christ isn't in you.
The thing I'm concerned with is how modern 'christians' claim they still sin and can't be expected to be perfect, yet still point their fingers at homosexuals or abortionists. hypocrites to say the least.
If your life has sin in it, of ANY kind, you are just as dead as a non-repentant homosexual and your 'christianity' is a fraud. Be very concerned about this.

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So are you reporting now that you have lived without sin since you have been born again? What about sins of omission? Has every thought you ever had since you have been born again been to glorify God? What about the sin of pride? I think if you make blanket statements like this you do not comprehend the depths of sin in the life of a human. There is only one who was ever sinless and that is the Christ.

Paul spoke to the depths of sin in detail and honesty in Romans. To think you can live wholly without sin today in a world full of evil is to not understand the holiness and perfect goodness of God.

I still stand on the fact that sin is wrong and goes against a Holy God. I still stand on the fact that homosexuality is a sin and so is abortion. I am no hypocrite in stating this rather you are in stating you are sinless. My Christianity is not a fraud in my honesty of confessing and struggling with sin, your claim of sinlessness makes you a liar.

1John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.



1John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Do you not know you have just sinned in making this statement? You are proving arrogance.

1Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Or are you greater than Michael the archangel?

Jude 9
9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

KingJ said:

We can be rude and arrogant when we don't see eye to eye and I don't blame you for wanting to leave . But you have to see there are good and bad on every site. Rude and humble. Then there are those who go through phases. Its just an internet thing imo.

As for your post, dont you think it is a tad ''rude'' to not even read the posts on the last two pages :huh:. It is so tiresome to hear someone quote the OP when the thread has gone on for so many pages. If you even read the last 2 pages you will see your post has been fully addressed and imho debunked.

You need to compliment Foreigner for the effort taken to repeat what has already been said.

I believe in extremities of sin for Christians and have explained myself well. Perhaps quote my posts? Homosexuality IS an extremity of giving in to the flesh. Something a saved Christian should not be able to live in / continue in without fear of losing their salvation. You can judge the difference between watching porn and committing adultery on your wife can't you? sin is sin to the unsaved only.

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The Word of truth doesn't need substantiated by someone else to still be as true. It doesn't matter what someone else says. If they don't agree with what I posted is God's Word about sin then they will die in their sins. Plain and simple.

justaname said:

So are you reporting now that you have lived without sin since you have been born again? What about sins of omission? Has every thought you ever had since you have been born again been to glorify God? What about the sin of pride? I think if you make blanket statements like this you do not comprehend the depths of sin in the life of a human. There is only one who was ever sinless and that is the Christ.

Paul spoke to the depths of sin in detail and honesty in Romans. To think you can live wholly without sin today in a world full of evil is to not understand the holiness and perfect goodness of God.

I still stand on the fact that sin is wrong and goes against a Holy God. I still stand on the fact that homosexuality is a sin and so is abortion. I am no hypocrite in stating this rather you are in stating you are sinless. My Christianity is not a fraud in my honesty of confessing and struggling with sin, your claim of sinlessness makes you a liar.

1John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.



1John 2:1-3
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Do you not know you have just sinned in making this statement? You are proving arrogance.

1Corinthians 4:5
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

Or are you greater than Michael the archangel?

Jude 9
9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

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Are you going to accuse me of sin whoever you are? Go for it. The Pharisees, children of the devil, also accused Jesus of having a devil and worse. I expect nothing more from such minded.
But since I've never seen you before I'll bear with you a mile more... What I posted wasn't about me. It is the Word of God to all who will receive it. It is about being in Christ who overcame sin and who now overcomes sin in us. If I have sinned that is none of your concern unless you see it. And I have not sinned against you. I don't lust for power or sex or money or anything of my former life. Why? Because I've died and been raised up in newness of life in baptism to Christ's death and resurrection. Christ has Come and dwells in me by His Holy Spirit and conquers temptation and sin in me exactly as He did in His own body of flesh when He walked the earth. You need to read about Christ overcoming sin in us. It can only be by receiving and being One with the Holy Spirit of Christ Come into us making "One of Twain". Are you the kind of powerless person as Paul described under the law in Romans 7? Or are you empowered to walk sinless as raised up in Christ as described in Romans 8?
Anyone who claims to be a Christian and yet still sins is a hypocrite and invites coals of fire onto their heads and is headway straight pointed to hell. Be concerned if you still sin and yet call yourself "christian". By their fruits ye shall no them. As Jesus said, "Go and sin no more". And don't act powerless or dismayed at this, for this is the Awesome power of salvation! And finally remember, for every temptation common to man, Jesus provides a way out to prevent sin. THAT IS POWER That is life changing. Peace!

whitestone said:

Anyone who claims to be a Christian and yet still sins is a hypocrite and invites coals of fire onto their heads and is headway straight pointed to hell. Be concerned if you still sin and yet call yourself "christian". By their fruits ye shall no them.

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-- Ah, so if a Christian EVER sins, that means he isn't really a Christian.

Alas, poor Paul:
"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing." - Romans 7:22-23

See, I'd have bet he was a Christian, and a great one at that. But according to your standards he's just another pathetic lost soul.



You also said, and I quote: "By their fruits ye shall no them."

I would agree. By that sentence alone I have come to the obvious conclusion that you need to proofread before you start proselytizing.
That is, unless your version of the Bible really DOES substitute 'know' with 'no.'

I do not accuse you of sin, your own words do.

whitestone said:

The Word of truth doesn't need substantiated by someone else to still be as true. It doesn't matter what someone else says. If they don't agree with what I posted is God's Word about sin then they will die in their sins. Plain and simple.


Are you going to accuse me of sin whoever you are? Go for it. The Pharisees, children of the devil, also accused Jesus of having a devil and worse. I expect nothing more from such minded.

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Here you admit you do not know who I am, yet you accuse me of being of the same mind of the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Arrogance?

whitestone said:

But since I've never seen you before I'll bear with you a mile more... What I posted wasn't about me. It is the Word of God to all who will receive it. It is about being in Christ who overcame sin and who now overcomes sin in us. If I have sinned that is none of your concern unless you see it. And I have not sinned against you. I don't lust for power or sex or money or anything of my former life. Why? Because I've died and been raised up in newness of life in baptism to Christ's death and resurrection. Christ has Come and dwells in me by His Holy Spirit and conquers temptation and sin in me exactly as He did in His own body of flesh when He walked the earth. You need to read about Christ overcoming sin in us. It can only be by receiving and being One with the Holy Spirit of Christ Come into us making "One of Twain". Are you the kind of powerless person as Paul described under the law in Romans 7? Or are you empowered to walk sinless as raised up in Christ as described in Romans 8?

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I have never heard of anyone walking sinless except Jesus the Christ, and maybe Mary yet that is an entirely different topic, but I have read where we are blameless. This is not because of acts of our righteousness, but rather because of imputed righteousness through faith. Now this is an important verse when it comes to Paul's explanation in Romans 8.

Romans 8:12-14
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

This does not say if you have put to death rather it says are putting to death.

whitestone said:

Anyone who claims to be a Christian and yet still sins is a hypocrite and invites coals of fire onto their heads and is headway straight pointed to hell.

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Here you are condemning everyone who is a Christian and has ever sinned but you have no such authority. Again the Jude 9 passage is fitting here. Again the 1John 2:1-3 passage speaks directly against what you profess as truth.

whitestone said:

If your life has sin in it, of ANY kind, you are just as dead as a non-repentant homosexual and your 'christianity' is a fraud. Be very concerned about this.

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Again you claiming fraudulence for all Christians who have ever sinned since their belief in Christ. You have deemed yourself judge and jury. Pride?

It seems you know all too well the verse just after this one but let me bring this to remembrance also.

Luke 6:42

“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.

I, in no way advocate sin. I say the same as Jesus, go and sin no more. Also though as in accordance with the Psalmist I confess no perfection in my walk.
Psalm 19:12-14

12 Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.
13 Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins;
Let them not rule over me;
Then I will be blameless,
And I shall be acquitted of great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.

Yes my mind is set on the Spirit, but my sanctification is not complete which in no way proves my Christianity fraudulent.
This is a quote by C.S. Lewis
“A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”


I am not here to condemn or judge you. I simply want you to rethink your unbiblical stance against Christians who sin. The Bible does not teach sinlessness in any other than Jesus Christ. The Bible does not advocate sin for anyone. The Bible does teach blamelessness for the confessing and professing Christian.
Romans 8:1
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Foreigner said:

-- Ah, so if a Christian EVER sins, that means he isn't really a Christian.

Alas, poor Paul:
"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing." - Romans 7:22-23

See, I'd have bet he was a Christian, and a great one at that. But according to your standards he's just another pathetic lost soul.



You also said, and I quote: "By their fruits ye shall no them."

I would agree. By that sentence alone I have come to the obvious conclusion that you need to proofread before you start proselytizing.
That is, unless your version of the Bible really DOES substitute 'know' with 'no.'

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Yes satan, I made an error that wasn't important to anyone but a lowlife. By the way, Romans 8 starting at verse one is a Christian who is delivered from the woefull state of Rom 7:22,23, of which you are self confessing to be in. In Rom 7 Paul is referring to his "jew self" under the law prior to receiving Christ. A state you are still in. That is why you are a child of the devil still as your fruit displays.

justaname said:

I do not accuse you of sin, your own words do.
Here you admit you do not know who I am, yet you accuse me of being of the same mind of the Pharisees of Jesus' day. Arrogance?
I have never heard of anyone walking sinless except Jesus the Christ, and maybe Mary yet that is an entirely different topic, but I have read where we are blameless. This is not because of acts of our righteousness, but rather because of imputed righteousness through faith. Now this is an important verse when it comes to Paul's explanation in Romans 8.

Romans 8:12-14
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

This does not say if you have put to death rather it says are putting to death.
Here you are condemning everyone who is a Christian and has ever sinned but you have no such authority. Again the Jude 9 passage is fitting here. Again the 1John 2:1-3 passage speaks directly against what you profess as truth.
Again you claiming fraudulence for all Christians who have ever sinned since their belief in Christ. You have deemed yourself judge and jury. Pride?

It seems you know all too well the verse just after this one but let me bring this to remembrance also.

Luke 6:42

“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.

I, in no way advocate sin. I say the same as Jesus, go and sin no more. Also though as in accordance with the Psalmist I confess no perfection in my walk.
Psalm 19:12-14

12 Who can discern his errors? Acquit me of hidden faults.
13 Also keep back Your servant from presumptuous sins;
Let them not rule over me;
Then I will be blameless,
And I shall be acquitted of great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my Redeemer.

Yes my mind is set on the Spirit, but my sanctification is not complete which in no way proves my Christianity fraudulent.
This is a quote by C.S. Lewis
“A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you.”


I am not here to condemn or judge you. I simply want you to rethink your unbiblical stance against Christians who sin. The Bible does not teach sinlessness in any other than Jesus Christ. The Bible does not advocate sin for anyone. The Bible does teach blamelessness for the confessing and professing Christian.
Romans 8:1
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

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You are the one accusing me of sin. Get thee hence you false accuser. You are an unrepentant sinner by confession of your own mouth, shall I have concern for your words any more than Jesus would of an accusing Pharisee? We are done, you need to go repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit of Christ and cease from sin and cease from accusing others of sin and cease from telling Christians that they can't be free from sin in their life. You are a false prophet and woe to them who hearken to your voice you sinner.

com'mon whitestone! Your message is based in fear of retrobution and punishment not love. Preaching moral perfection rather than calling others to love perfectly is an age old heresy in the church - the Cathars are only one example. Perfect love through Christ is the only path to sinlessness and can only be realized at the fulfillment of sanctification in Heaven.

whitestone said:

Yes satan, I made an error that wasn't important to anyone but a lowlife. By the way, Romans 8 starting at verse one is a Christian who is delivered from the woefull state of Rom 7:22,23, of which you are self confessing to be in. In Rom 7 Paul is referring to his "jew self" under the law prior to receiving Christ. A state you are still in. That is why you are a child of the devil still as your fruit displays.


You are the one accusing me of sin. Get thee hence you false accuser. You are an unrepentant sinner by confession of your own mouth, shall I have concern for your words any more than Jesus would of an accusing Pharisee? We are done, you need to go repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit of Christ and cease from sin and cease from accusing others of sin and cease from telling Christians that they can't be free from sin in their life. You are a false prophet and woe to them who hearken to your voice you sinner.

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Case in point you have proven yourself to sin again. I will pray for you. I have never said I am unrepentant and you have again shown yourself the accuser you falsely claim me to be. Sin drips from the very words you post. You call foreigner a "lowlife" and that is not a sin? It is most evident from your tone and false accusations that you do not want to be shown the sin in your life and you would rather pretend it is not present. I pray the Lord God Most High opens your eyes to the defiance you present before Him and that He has mercy on you, in the holy and precious name of Jesus Christ I pray . Amen.

In love and truth you have been shown your falseness you present to others. Pride has raised it's ugly head proving your doctrine false.

Jesus has already set me free from sin for I am no longer in bondage to sin, but rather I am in bondage to righteousness. For your own benefit I post this for you.

Matthew 7:1-2
“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I want to post for the record I have never attacked you or your character. The same can not be said of you. What I argued against was your doctrine and style of presentation in your posts.

I apologize for separating from the topic of the OP, but I do not apologize for the truth I presented.

whitestone said:

Yes satan, I made an error that wasn't important to anyone but a lowlife.

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-- Insults? This must be that reveling in flawless Christianity you are talking about.
Jesus is obviously SO pleased with you

What is it you do not understand??

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

You say that you are without sin for you are in Christ, yet it is your words that condemn you, for as you judge so are you judged. How can you say you are in Christ yet condemn another? You judge in the flesh and your judgement is wrong.

And so the the sinner ran through the street being persued by christians. And the sinner came before Jesus and stopped. The christians stood before Jesus and said,' this man is a homosexual and is guilty of sin". And Jesus sat and said to the christians, " are you without sin, which of you will cast the first stone". Than the christians said to Jesus, " but Lord we are yours and we are in you and we there fore are without sin,

Than Jesus paused for a moment and said to them,

" have I condemned this man".??

In All His Love

Hi MJRHealth,

Than Jesus paused for a moment and said to them,

" have I condemned this man".??

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I don't think it is wise to put words into Jesus' mouth.


It is He who puts His words into our mouths.


In scripture, He has condemned homosexual behaviour many times over. (It is a corruption of the image of God in man, exploited by demons.)


There is a mentality, stemming from the lie that a man (or woman) can be born homosexual, which has fixed in certain people's minds that there is no salvation or healing or redemption for those who practise homosexual acts (and imagination - thought-life); whereas the New Testament clearly indicates that salvation is just as open to those men and women as to those practising any other abomination (idolatry). Romans 2:4

As a result of the work God can do in a co-operative believer, those who previously practised homosexual behaviour and thinking, are fully delivered and yield themselves to the will of God. Just as when heterosexual men and women come to the Lord for salvation - expected to give up practices such as fornication and adultery - so the former homosexual gives up sodomy, and yields him/herself to the will of God. This may lead to a heterosexual relationship (consummated in marriage), or to celibacy. God can call a heterosexual to celibacy, too. There is no rule, except to obey God by receiving His gifts Matthew 19:11, 12 in their full measure, and trusting one's whole life and ministry to Him.

Yes, one day the Lord will condemn unbelievers John 16:9 and Christians who continued in sin(s). Galatians 5:19, 20 21; Romans 2:5.

Remember, Paul was writing to a local church when he wrote the Roman letter. It is not a mistake that he gives a clear breakdown of how the rejection of truth - God's revelation of Himself to every man Romans 1:19, 20, 21 - opens men and women up to idolatry (and self-worship), leading to a certain progression of sins, which he says they know are worthy of death Romans 1:32.

This is the New Testament teaching. It was not culturally sensitive then, and it's not culturally sensitive now, but we should not be surprised that the application of truth is intended to make us citizens of heaven.

So let me see. are false teachers, false prophets, gossip in the church, false doctrines being preached, idolatry, child abuse, fornication, and all the other sins of the church, are they not mentioned in the bible, s pray tel me why these are not discussed, you see it is not them who are condemning you it is you who are condemning them, it is not them who have sinned against you it is you that have sinned against them, they have already being forgiven, Christ died for them too,but in your judgement you need there forgiveness, and you wonder why they rebel against God, it is because you are not showing them God. God is Love.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

In All His Love

Mjrhealth,

Is it not loving if you see a child running toward the busy urban street and you snatch her from her path before she reaches impending doom?Just as this action is loving so is pointing out sin in the life of the sinner.

It is quite true some Christians seem to belabor the sin of homosexuality greater than other sins committed in society, and sometimes this may be unwarranted and even extreme and unloving, but it is also true that society is pushing extremely hard to view this abomination as acceptable. This is what you could say is a "hot topic" and will continue to be as long as society deems it necessary to promote homosexuality in our mainstream media, entertainment, and legislation. Christians should not waiver in their stance against what is clearly taught as being sin in the Bible, and we do not need it force fed to us the same way they force feed darwinism over creationism in our schools. Even if it is proven to be a genetic or chemical difference this should not and does not appropriate the activity. If serial killers were found to have a specific gene or chemical imbalance that links their activity should they be allowed to continue their sin throughout society and we Christians be forced to just accept it?

Morals are objective and not subjective with God being the source of all morality, not because he simply deems what is good or bad, but because goodness is rooted in His very nature. Man is culpable for his activity before a holy and righteous God. Immoral activity is a sin. Homosexual activity is immoral.

Homosexuality tears at the very fabric of the natural activity and function degrading the stability of the family and society in general. This can be supported scientifically through case studies already performed.

I agree some go to far in their message of condemnation, judgement, and hate speech. God is the holy and righteous Judge and is the only one to be able to peer into the hearts and minds of men. God will have the final say in all matters, not any man with a Bible in his hand and a scowl on his brow. With this stated though if you see a man shoveling snow and you say he is shoveling snow you have not condemned or judged him, you have only stated the obvious.

Hi MJR,

So let me see. are false teachers, false prophets, gossip in the church, false doctrines being preached, idolatry, child abuse, fornication, and all the other sins of the church, are they not mentioned in the bible, s pray tel me why these are not discussed, you see it is not them who are condemning you it is you who are condemning them, it is not them who have sinned against you it is you that have sinned against them, they have already being forgiven, Christ died for them too,but in your judgement you need there forgiveness, and you wonder why they rebel against God, it is because you are not showing them God. God is Love.

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This thread is about homosexual behaviour and whether it is a sin or not. That is why it is being discussed, here.

You seem to be assuming that the declaration that God condemns sodomy, translates into those Christians who agree with God, automatically shunning, ostracising and otherwise behaving in an unChristlike way towards sodomites.

There is definitely a place for separation at times, and especially if the 'fault' is a temptation to the Christian. This can happen even when it is a Christian who is at fault, so no-one need assume they cannot fall, just because they know they cannot approve such sins.

Wisdom is needed. Every Christian has to stay within the remit given to them by God. 'Love' is a faithful ministry with the potential to bring about change in another, only when it is the pure love of God, and not something closer to sympathy or empathy.

Oh but it is not about homsexuality its abot the "real" hearts of christians. As Jesus said,

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

And when they come all teh ysee is judgmental christians judgi8ng them.

Again why not remove the logs out of the eyes of christians, so why not discuss the sins of the church, lets talk about the Love of God and the Grace that is in Christ, lets dicuss His love and lets stop condeming the world, that is teh Job of the Holy Spirit.

In All His Love

So we are to love homosexuals but not point out to them that their lifestyle guarantees them eternal damnation?
How exactly is that love? Sounds like loving them to death.

How exactly is a Christian supposed to help someone be "found" as God directs, if they don't at first help them to realize that they are "lost?"
That goes for homosexuals and non-homosexuals alike.

You are just one of three or four people on this site who make unsubstantiated blanket accusations about ALL Christians.
Painting us all with the same brush as you do, accusing us all of the same terrible activities points to a closemindedness on your part that reason will never touch.

Have you ever witnessed to a homosexual? No, of course not. You just 'love' them.

Here is what must be done:
You tell them first and foremost that God loves them, just as much as he loves you.
Then you tell them that ALL have sinned but that Jesus died on the cross to pay for those sins.
Then you tell then that God expect all of us to turn away from sin and that homosexuality is no worse in his eyes than a liar, a robber, a tax cheat, an adulterer, etc. etc. etc.
You point out that you too were going to hell because of your sin until you turned away from it and gave your life to Christ.
You tell them that they are your brother (or sister) and they will have eternity in heaven if they choose to follow Christ.

I have never proactively approached a homosexual to witness to him.
Never picketed homosexuals. Never carried a sign warning against homosexuality.
Never given a speech or spoke from a soapbox on how terrible homosexually is.

Yet I have been approached scores of times by homosexuals once they know I am a Christian and many DEMAND to know how I could dare consider homosexuality a sin.
I talk to them softly, praying as I do and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Apparently - to YOU - that is a big no-no.

My church is a born again church. We have homosexuals that attend. Some that have become Christian, some that just attend but commit to nothing, and some that come for a short time then leave and never come back.

All are welcome. All are LOVED. But all are told that homosexuality (like adultery, theft, dishonesty, abuse, etc.) are unacceptable to God and to truly follow Him you need to turn your back on those practices.

You are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Quit being part of the problem.

When you all find the love that Jesus has, you will all see things differently. Now go and read you bibles and find any scripture where Jesus went to a sinner and said to them " you are a sinner", the pharrisees dont count they where just that way.

In All His Love

Now go and read you bibles and find any scripture where Jesus went to a sinner and said to them " you are a sinner",

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There are plenty of examples of people who entered Jesus presence becoming aware that they had sinned, or who already knew they were sinners, or of implied or actual discussion about sin, sinning and sins (between Jesus and others - not only his disciples), which, in the context of ritual sacrifices every day at the Temple, would have been very natural to all concerned. Perhaps you should look for them, or would you like a starter list?

mjrhealth said:

When you all find the love that Jesus has, you will all see things differently. Now go and read you bibles and find any scripture where Jesus went to a sinner and said to them " you are a sinner", the pharrisees dont count they where just that way.

In All His Love

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John 8:1-11

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.
3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,
4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 “Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”
6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.
10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

In this Jesus was displaying that everyone who was going to stone this woman who did sin was just as guilty of sin as her. Jesus could have picked up a stone because He was without sin, all the rest were sinners. What I glean from this text is man's inability to forgive others when he himself is riddled with sin. When sin is evident the loving thing to do is point it out to the sinner and give them the chance for repentance, not just stone them to death, because we are all guilty of sin.

justaname said:

John 8:1-11



1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.
3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,
4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.
5 “Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?”
6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.
10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”
In this Jesus was displaying that everyone who was going to stone this woman who did sin was just as guilty of sin as her. Jesus could have picked up a stone because He was without sin, all the rest were sinners. What I glean from this text is man's inability to forgive others when he himself is riddled with sin. When sin is evident the loving thing to do is point it out to the sinner and give them the chance for repentance, not just stone them to death, because we are all guilty of sin.

Click to expand...

This is a true statement. But, when we tell someone they are in sin, are we not giving them space for repentance? All have space for repentance, which is why we tell them they are in sin. If they didn't have a chance, why bother? They are judged already. Not by us, for we are human.

Are we saying, "You are a sinner, in sin. There is no hope for you". Absolutely not! We tell them they are in sin, and that they can be overcomers much like any other person. Jesus said to that woman, "Go and sin no more".

If someone comes to you, asking if something is sin, state it plainly that it's sin, that God can do the convicting. Then state plainly that Jesus can and will help them out of their troubles. God will do the saving. If they refuse to hear you, and walk away, God will do the judging. You see how we are to cooperate with God? If words flow from my lips, and they feel convicted, am I convicting them? Am I judging them? No, it is God who does such a thing. I am only the messenger, fellow servant.

Not everyone is called to preach and teach in the same way in manner. Some are called like John the Baptist, who will see nothing but a generation of vipers in people like the Pharisees. Some are called in their workplace, to preach the good tidings to those in their job, merely by example. Some are called to stand in front of Kings, life imperiled, and rebuke them for their iniquity. "It is not lawful for thee to have her". John told the truth. It's not like he never told them repent. But he was a very plain spoken man. Plain words cut the heart.

There is nothing we can do, people will get hurt, then accuse us of judging them. It's an accusation, that's all it is. Because we revealed to them the truth, they do nothing but get angry with us. We become their enermies. You realize, how even in Christ's love, the Pharisees and others still hated Christ? It doesn't matter how loving you are, you will be hated for sharing the truth.

For someone to plainly state homosexuality is a sin, we are accused of judging. I know, it happened to me with a friend. She asked me, and I told her, and she got upset, and then accused me. Jesus can help her, just like anyone else overcome. However, her accusations came because she felt judged. Who was then judging her and convicting her? Was it me? No, it was God. She reviled me, not realizing she actually was reviling the One that sent me to warn her.

In conclusion, point out the sinfulness when someone asks. Even if someone doesn't ask, we bear the burden of sharing what we know. It's a war, people are going to get offended, and there is nothing you can do about it. Not a thing.

I've simply grown tired of these accusations (not that you are the accuser). We share the truth in love. We do not judge, we do not convict, God does.

So, if a homosexual again wants to know -- Yes, it is a sin. However, you can be freed from that sin, we all have crosses to carry. Whether we like it or not, we all have sinful things which need to be tossed out. Do not stumble because it offends you, rather go to God about such a thing offending you. Share how you love Him supremely and want to be free. You may not feel like it, your flesh wages against the spirit, but if you want to follow God, He will take you in. It is His promise.