What is Predetermined?

Renniks · Jan 22, 2022

robert derrick said:
Are you an ungodly sinner?

I already answered that question.
I am a saint who still sins because I still am human.

Renniks · Jan 22, 2022

Taken said:
LOL....oh lookie another rookie gasligher, armed with his pocket of false Accusations, as his pseudo creds...

Wise up... “sinless” is YOUR WORDS, YOUR CLAIMS, YOU EAT THEM!
I said NO SUCH THING!

Any serious student of Scripture “SHOULD KNOW”....no human men are SINLESS!

Any serious student of Scripture “SHOULD KNOW”....FORGIVENESS OF SIN, is obviously, A GLARING CLUE SIN is admittedly PRESENT, TO BE FORGIVEN!

Any serious student of Scripture “SHOULD KNOW”....A BODY OF FLESH “DOES NOT BECOME SINLESS, UNTIL IT IS RISEN IN UNCORRUPTION!“

Any serious student of Scripture “SHOULD KNOW”...Forgiven, Saved men walking about the earth, ARE NOT IN GLORIFIED BODIES!
ARE NOT SINLESS....THEY ARE FREED FROM ABILITY TO AGAIN Commit SIN!

What happened...Public School education?

So " sins no more"- your claim- doesn't mean sins no more? And I went to a Christian school.

Taken · Jan 22, 2022

Renniks said:
So " sins no more"- your claim- doesn't mean sins no more?

Of course sins no more, means sins no more!
“Sinless” “your claim”....means NEVER SINNED.

Seriously, you do not comprehend the difference?

Stumpmaster · Jan 22, 2022

Taken said:
Of course sins no more, means sins no more!
“Sinless” “your claim”....means NEVER SINNED.

Seriously, you do not comprehend the difference?

1Ti 5:19-20 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. (20) Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

Gal 2:11-14 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; (12) for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (13) And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Renniks said:
I already answered that question.
I am a saint who still sins because I am still human.

Humans are men out of the Earth.
All humans are naturally born IN SIN.
All humans commit SIN.
Those who are called to BE SAINTS, are those who are IN Christ.
Those who are IN Christ, have become SPIRITUALLY QUICKENED.
Those who are SPIRITUALLY QUICKENED, are BORN AGAIN.
Those who are BORN AGAIN, are born of Gods SEED.
Those who ARE Born Again of Gods Seed, ARE sons of God.
Those who ARE sons of God, SIN NO MORE!

I am a saint who still sins because I am still human

Regarding “humans”......”a SAINT IS” A HOLY Human.
A “HOLY Human”...........DOES NOT SIN!
IF you STILL SIN...........YOU are NOT HOLY.......YOU are NOT A SAINT.

Have you not learned:
Humans naturally are BORN of a mans seed.
Humans naturally BORN of a mans seed, ARE born corrupt.
Naturally born CORRUPT, means.....NOT HOLY!
NOT HOLY, means, SINFUL.

BORN AGAIN, is a mans natural spirit, BEING BORN OF GODS SEED!!!
Gods SEED, is NOT CORRUPT.

God IS SPIRIT.
Gods SEED does not BIRTH, human flesh and blood.
Gods SEED does not REBIRTH, human flesh and blood.
Gods SEED does not BIRTH, souls.
Gods SEED does not REBIRTH souls.
Gods SEED DOES REBIRTH, SPIRITS!!!

Do you not know.......??
Humans...ARE body’s born of a mans SEED?
Humans...ARE given a soul, via Gods BREATH?
Humans...HAVE natural “spirits”?

Natural “spirits”, ARE a humans “NATURAL TRUTH”, in his “heart”.

Do you not know........??
God CAN “CHANGE” nothing of a HUMAN, “UNLESS the Human DIES”?
God SAVES “SOULS”, of men, WHO “DIE” Believing IN HIM.
God REBIRTHS “spirits” of men, WHO “DIE” Believing IN HIM.

Did you NOT LEARN, Jesus’ Body was Crucified?
Did you NOT LEARN, CRUCIFIED, is KILLING BODILY LIFE?

Did you NOT LEARN, accepting Jesus’ OFFERING, requires a human man,
To ALSO BECOME BODILY DEAD?

Did you NOT LEARN, Jesus’ OFFERING, was a human man CAN WILLINGLY, Freely, Choose, to LAY DOWN HIS Human BODY’S LIFE unto DEATH, by BEING CRUCIFIED.....WITH Jesus?

WHAT IS THE MOST meaningful thing YOU HAVE, that you could possibly GIVE, BECAUSE YOU ARE SO CONVINCED of YOUR BELIEF?
WOULD YOU, GIVE YOUR OWN LIFE, BECAUSE YOU SO STRONGLY BELIEVE IN SOMETHING?

*Soldiers, do that all day long. They are willing to lay down their own LIFE, in service to their country. (We call them hero’s)
*Martyrs, do that all day long. They are willing to lay down their own LIFE, in support of their strong belief. (We call them terriorists)
*Kamikaza pilots, were willing to lay down their own LIFE, in service to their nations. (We call them suicide bombers)

What is a man called WILLING to LAY down HIS LIFE, FOR his absolute BELIEF IN: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God?
(We call that man a SAINT).

* It is a PLEDGE of that mans WORD, that he is WILLINGLY LAYING DOWN HIS OWN LIFE......to willingly give HIS OWN LIFE unto DEATH....BECAUSE of his absolute heartful belief: Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Did you NOT KNOW, Jesus’ offering TO BE WITH HIM, He WITH YOU, His SPIRIT IN YOU, Required your Willingness to LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE in crucifixion WITH HIM?

Did you NOT KNOW, your flesh body, IS ACCOUNTED DEAD?
Did you NOT KNOW, Jesus’ offered men HIS RISEN HOLY BODY to live in, until Their own Physical BODILY DEATH?

Do TELL, HOW YOUR “Christian schooling taught you”...a mans DEAD BODY continues to COMMIT SIN AGAINST GOD?

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Stumpmaster said:
1Ti 5:19-20 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. (20) Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.

Gal 2:11-14 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; (12) for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. (13) And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. (14) But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?

Your point?

robert derrick · Jan 23, 2022

ScottA said:
This is how the "Quote" feature works. But since you rewrote my original comment, both now appear to be what you posted-- and that is the problem and confusion you are creating.

Back to your comment:

It is your incorrect understanding of what salvation is that is false. One who is born [again] of God's spirit, is One with God, and God cannot lose His salvation. Period. Your claim is against God, and therefore false.

Sin is sin.

But you are wrong in your assessment of those who are saved and actually know that it is eternal, regardless of your wrongful judgement of them. You are not the measure of salvation, God is, and He has made it perfectly clear that it is eternal life.

As for Paul in Romans 7, his words are a witness and a testimony against your claims, and for what it is that I have presented to you. Sin is sin, but once a person is in God, and God in them as One-- this is salvation, which is eternal. But Paul spells out the problem (which is in accord with the prayer of Christ of those remaining under the tribulations of this world), saying of himself, that even he was not perfect as Christ was/is perfect and righteous. And if your wrongful claim were at all true, it would not only be the loss of salvation for those you are accusing, but also for Paul. But having spelled out and clarified the issue of what is otherwise considered unrighteousness by God, he also clarified that it was indeed not a loss of salvation, but also clarified that for those like himself, "to live is Christ." Your claims, therefore, are also against Paul and Christ.

The truth of sin and salvation must agree with all of scripture: That none are righteous save One, and only in Him, do we have salvation, not by works, or even by being righteous as Christ was righteous, but in Him alone...not by our own righteousness, but by His righteousness; and that even sin for those who are in Him, is not counted as sin. This is true because all who have sinned perish, but "God is the God of the living", meaning those who are born [again] of the Spirit. Which was Paul's clarification that both laws exist in those who are saved, which is not against the saved as you say; but rather that in our mind we "serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin", which is not counted as sin. Romans 7:25

God cannot lose His salvation. Period.

That is a nonsensical and ridiculous thing to say, that only OSAS could think up.

So, once again, is the double minded wretchedness Paul empathized with, the perpetual state of all Christians in this life, or not?

Are you an ungodly sinner or not?

I am not.

Bob Estey · Jan 23, 2022

robert derrick said:
The answer is in the question: What is predetermined, not who.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Omniscience foreknows who, predestination foreknows what, not who.

Foreknowing who is not because of predestinating who.

Foreknowing who is simply the omniscience of God to know who by name, not to predestine who by name.

God foreknows who, and He predestinated whosoever to be conformed to His own image: As with Adam, whom He foreknew and determined by counsel to create him in Their image:

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

The great error of Calvin was to falsely declare that the omniscience of God foreknowing who, required the predetermining of who, before knowing who.

Omniscience of God is not the result of predestination of God for who to choose, but is by watching all things come to pass unto the end from the beginning: those whosoever will come to Him and did freely choose to obey Him rather than the devil.

God foreknew in the beginning and so foreknows now, because the Word watches and watched from on high above the heavens, all things to come to pass in creation. And the Word being with God, God foreknew all who would come unto Him before creating the heaven and the earth.

God foreknew because He saw it come to pass before creating man, not because He predetermined who would and who would not come unto Him before the beginning.

God foreknew who by seeing whosever, not by predetermining who would be whosoever.

The Lord has a plan for each of us. If we follow him, the plan will be fulfilled.

robert derrick · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Public schools, A missed lesson in fostering cognitive skills.

Not sure I would call the teaching of Jesus, 2,000 years ago “modern”.
However, His teaching expressly taught, Gods Spirit IN a man, was gifted to men who, by Confession AGREED to be forgiven and kept from from sin, by GODS Power.

YOU DO BAD THINGS to the Lord God? Like what? Call Him names, Blame Him for your faults, Bad mouth Him to your friends? What?

WHY should they?
Do you enter a room, turn on the light, and say....WOW look at all this darkness?

You probably ought stop identifying yourself with OSAS, which teaches going on still in sins and trespasses, and not being judged for it: Hypocrites naming the name of Christ.

You are speaking more like Once Saved Always Stay Saved:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Christians naming Christ that go on to answer the perfecting call to be saints, depart from iniquity and leave their old sins behind.

The old man of sin is crucified and dead with the body of sins, not walking around arm-in-arm with the ungodly Christian and Christ.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

ScottA · Jan 23, 2022

robert derrick said:
God cannot lose His salvation. Period.

That is a nonsensical and ridiculous thing to say, that only OSAS could think up.

So, once again, is the double minded wretchedness Paul empathized with, the perpetual state of all Christians in this life, or not?

Are you an ungodly sinner or not?

I am not.

You again are not quoting properly.

Nonetheless, your lack of understanding does not mean everything is "double speak ", it just shows that you are only leaning on your own understanding.

You have left Jesus because of hard sayings.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

robert derrick said:
You probably ought stop identifying yourself with OSAS, which teaches going on still in sins and trespasses....

No it doesn’t.

Renniks · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Of course sins no more, means sins no more!
“Sinless” “your claim”....means NEVER SINNED.

Seriously, you do not comprehend the difference?

Sinless, present tense. Same thing as sins no more.
Are you claiming present tense sinlessness?

Renniks · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Humans are men out of the Earth.
All humans are naturally born IN SIN.
All humans commit SIN.
Those who are called to BE SAINTS, are those who are IN Christ.
Those who are IN Christ, have become SPIRITUALLY QUICKENED.
Those who are SPIRITUALLY QUICKENED, are BORN AGAIN.
Those who are BORN AGAIN, are born of Gods SEED.
Those who ARE Born Again of Gods Seed, ARE sons of God.
Those who ARE sons of God, SIN NO MORE!

Regarding “humans”......”a SAINT IS” A HOLY Human.
A “HOLY Human”...........DOES NOT SIN!
IF you STILL SIN...........YOU are NOT HOLY.......YOU are NOT A SAINT.

Have you not learned:
Humans naturally are BORN of a mans seed.
Humans naturally BORN of a mans seed, ARE born corrupt.
Naturally born CORRUPT, means.....NOT HOLY!
NOT HOLY, means, SINFUL.

BORN AGAIN, is a mans natural spirit, BEING BORN OF GODS SEED!!!
Gods SEED, is NOT CORRUPT.

God IS SPIRIT.
Gods SEED does not BIRTH, human flesh and blood.
Gods SEED does not REBIRTH, human flesh and blood.
Gods SEED does not BIRTH, souls.
Gods SEED does not REBIRTH souls.
Gods SEED DOES REBIRTH, SPIRITS!!!

Do you not know.......??
Humans...ARE body’s born of a mans SEED?
Humans...ARE given a soul, via Gods BREATH?
Humans...HAVE natural “spirits”?

Natural “spirits”, ARE a humans “NATURAL TRUTH”, in his “heart”.

Do you not know........??
God CAN “CHANGE” nothing of a HUMAN, “UNLESS the Human DIES”?
God SAVES “SOULS”, of men, WHO “DIE” Believing IN HIM.
God REBIRTHS “spirits” of men, WHO “DIE” Believing IN HIM.

Did you NOT LEARN, Jesus’ Body was Crucified?
Did you NOT LEARN, CRUCIFIED, is KILLING BODILY LIFE?

Did you NOT LEARN, accepting Jesus’ OFFERING, requires a human man,
To ALSO BECOME BODILY DEAD?

Did you NOT LEARN, Jesus’ OFFERING, was a human man CAN WILLINGLY, Freely, Choose, to LAY DOWN HIS Human BODY’S LIFE unto DEATH, by BEING CRUCIFIED.....WITH Jesus?

WHAT IS THE MOST meaningful thing YOU HAVE, that you could possibly GIVE, BECAUSE YOU ARE SO CONVINCED of YOUR BELIEF?
WOULD YOU, GIVE YOUR OWN LIFE, BECAUSE YOU SO STRONGLY BELIEVE IN SOMETHING?

*Soldiers, do that all day long. They are willing to lay down their own LIFE, in service to their country. (We call them hero’s)
*Martyrs, do that all day long. They are willing to lay down their own LIFE, in support of their strong belief. (We call them terriorists)
*Kamikaza pilots, were willing to lay down their own LIFE, in service to their nations. (We call them suicide bombers)

What is a man called WILLING to LAY down HIS LIFE, FOR his absolute BELIEF IN: Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God?
(We call that man a SAINT).

* It is a PLEDGE of that mans WORD, that he is WILLINGLY LAYING DOWN HIS OWN LIFE......to willingly give HIS OWN LIFE unto DEATH....BECAUSE of his absolute heartful belief: Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Did you NOT KNOW, Jesus’ offering TO BE WITH HIM, He WITH YOU, His SPIRIT IN YOU, Required your Willingness to LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE in crucifixion WITH HIM?

Did you NOT KNOW, your flesh body, IS ACCOUNTED DEAD?
Did you NOT KNOW, Jesus’ offered men HIS RISEN HOLY BODY to live in, until Their own Physical BODILY DEATH?

Do TELL, HOW YOUR “Christian schooling taught you”...a mans DEAD BODY continues to COMMIT SIN AGAINST GOD?

Can a person who is dead in their sins do something good? Of course! So why would I believe that being dead TO sin means I can't sin?
But if you want to split hairs:

For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Renniks said:
Sinless, present tense. Same thing as sins no more.
Are you claiming present tense sinlessness?

Don’t be ridiculous. Sinless IS NEVER HAVING HAD SIN!

Why are you asking what “I CLAIM” “in your words”?
I have told you PLAINLY, in my words.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Renniks said:
Can a person who is dead in their sins do something good? Of course!

I’m sure from your secular point of view.
However SIN is a Spiritual topic, of being Against God.

So why would I believe that being dead TO sin means I can't sin?
But if you want to split hairs:

Click to expand...

Oops was about to answer....but your snarky comment, making sin but a trifle issue, simple reveals your are not prepared for meat.

Renniks · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Don’t be ridiculous. Sinless IS NEVER HAVING HAD SIN!

So if I'm hairless I was always hairless? You might want to think about how you phrase things.

Renniks · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
I’m sure from your secular point of view.
However SIN is a Spiritual topic, of being Against God

There are verses in the Bible about unsaved people doing good. Of course all people are sinful. But anyone can do good. Some very loving people are not believers. God's image in them is what allows them to do good.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Renniks said:
So if I'm hairless I was always hairless? You might want to think about how you phrase things.

Try to understand what...
Born is sin, committed sin, forgiven my sins and There forward...
Sins no more.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

Renniks said:
There are verses in the Bible about unsaved people doing good. Of course all people are sinful. But anyone can do good. Some very loving people are not believers. God's image in them is what allows them to do good.

Uh....Really, people who are dead in this sins, do good because Gods image is In them?

Questionable.

robert derrick · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
No it doesn’t.

Them identifying themselves as OSAS certainly do.

What is Predetermined?

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