Can people in Heaven know?

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

devin553344 said:
The bible says we become as angels in heaven. The word 'as' is often misinterpreted as you are doing here.

the devil and his angels will die.

If men became angels, ‘as’ would be irrelevant.
“AS” is a comparative “likeness”.

Angels can not cease to live.
And angelic DEATH, is eternal separation from God, while they are still alive.

dev553344 · Jan 23, 2022

Bob Estey said:
I believe the Lord's discipine IS hell. It's for our own good, but it's no fun.

I think the Lord disciplines many times thru the actions of others. Feelings of hell probably isn't from God. God has fruits to his spirit so we can identify him (Galatians 5:22-23). Where does the bible say God's spirit can replicate hell?

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

devin553344 said:
Have you ever been touched by someones spirit. And how would you know if they can smell and taste. I don't think you got that correct either.

Spiritual things are spiritual, so is the understanding thereof.
Natural things are natural, so is the understanding thereof.

Trying to make Natural understanding explain a Scriptural thing is a FAIL.

I didn’t mention ‘spirit’, why respond to me wondering about a ‘spirit’?
A ‘spirit’ is not a “soul”.

SOULS out of body, can smell, taste, speak, see, hear, touch.....
How DO I KNOW.......Jesus said so....and I happen to fully Trust He IS the Truth and can not lie.

Taken · Jan 23, 2022

TLHKAJ said:
I have to agree with @Taken on this. Jesus addressed this when He told of Lazarus and the rich man who died. There, He speaks of communication happening between ones whose bodies had died.

Luke 16:19-31
[19]There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20]And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21]And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22]And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;[
[23]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25]But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27]Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28]For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29]Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30]And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Precisely!

dev553344 · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
If men became angels, ‘as’ would be irrelevant.
“AS” is a comparative “likeness”.

Angels can not cease to live.
And angelic DEATH, is eternal separation from God, while they are still alive.

Becoming as Angels is also used as a transformation of a being. As is the extent of the transformation: Angel.

dev553344 · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Spiritual things are spiritual, so is the understanding thereof.
Natural things are natural, so is the understanding thereof.

Trying to make Natural understanding explain a Scriptural thing is a FAIL.

I didn’t mention ‘spirit’, why respond to me wondering about a ‘spirit’?
A ‘spirit’ is not a “soul”.

SOULS out of body, can smell, taste, speak, see, hear, touch.....
How DO I KNOW.......Jesus said so....and I happen to fully Trust He IS the Truth and can not lie.

Definition of Soul: the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

Bob Estey · Jan 23, 2022

devin553344 said:
I think the Lord disciplines many times thru the actions of others. Feelings of hell probably isn't from God. God has fruits to his spirit so we can identify him (Galatians 5:22-23). Where does the bible say God's spirit can replicate hell?

It isn't "feelings" of hell. It's the unpleasant circumstances we find ourselves in when we sin.

dev553344 · Jan 23, 2022

@Taken I found this and there are probably other relevant scriptures that also us the word 'as'. In this verse Jesus did become a man:

Philippians 2:8
“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

TLHKAJ · Jan 23, 2022

TLHKAJ said:
I have to agree with @Taken on this. Jesus addressed this when He told of Lazarus and the rich man who died. There, He speaks of communication happening between ones whose bodies had died.

Luke 16:19-31
[19]There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20]And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21]And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22]And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25]But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27]Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28]For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29]Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30]And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Notice also that Abraham knew of the lives of this rich man and the beggar, Lazarus. Abraham died (physically) looooooong before these two men lived and died.
Again, confirming this....
Hebrews 12:1
[1]Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Lifelong_sinner · Jan 23, 2022

Bob Estey said:
Suffering here can be most unpleasant, and we suffer when we sin. So why sin?

we all sin. Daily. You sin daily. We cant stop from sinning.

JunChosen · Jan 23, 2022

Bob Estey said:
Wrong? You don't suffer after you sin?

No! Because a child of God is born from above and he does not sin [1 John 3:9].

Brakelite · Jan 23, 2022

devin553344 said:
Angels are resurrected people. In Jesus time he resurrected a lot of people who visited the towns and such. That is what that verse is referring to.

Brakelite · Jan 23, 2022

Taken said:
Body’s die go to the grave in silence, knows nothing and rots.
The soul departs the body.
The soul continues to exist, until after judgement.
The soul without it’s body, can see, hear, taste, smell, touch.
Saved souls wait in heaven ... in comfort.
Unsaved souls wait in hell...in distress.

That would be great if it was biblical. I can go back to the first 3 chapters in Genesis to show that such a scenario is impossible. But you've seen that before and ignored it. Don't know where to go from here... If you don't accept scripture as the source of truth, what else can I say?

Brakelite · Jan 23, 2022

TLHKAJ said:
I have to agree with @Taken on this. Jesus addressed this when He told of Lazarus and the rich man who died. There, He speaks of communication happening between ones whose bodies had died.

Luke 16:19-31
[19]There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20]And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21]And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22]And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25]But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27]Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28]For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29]Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30]And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

So a soul has a tongue and a finger and a mouth to talk with. You think Jesus was describing a literal event, and offering a lesson on the state of the dead?
What Jesus was using here was the Jews own unbiblical tradition to teach them the truth...if they don't believe Moses and prophets, they won't believe in Him either, even after He rises from the dead.
And it seems very few here believe in Moses or the prophets either. People invent, dream, or imagine, theories and beliefs and sometimes very graphically, aided by the enemy of truth, which can sound very convincing, yet are at odds with scripture.

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

Backlit said:
That would be great if it was biblical.

It is Biblical.

I can go back to the first 3 chapters in Genesis to show that such a scenario is impossible.

But you didn’t

If you don't accept scripture as the source of truth, what else can I say?

That would be you.

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

devin553344 said:
@Taken I found this and there are probably other relevant scriptures that also us the word 'as'. In this verse Jesus did become a man:

Philippians 2:8
“And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

Man IS created from Dust of the EARTH

God IS NOT created.
God IS NOT from Dust out of the EARTH.
God IS IN His Kingdom, Heaven.
Gods Word IS IN Gods Mouth.

Gods WORD came forth out of Gods MOUTH.
God PREPARED His Word A BODY.
God SENT His Word, in a PREPARED body, to a VIRGIN Womb ON Earth.
Gods WORD came forth out from the virgin womb, IN it’s PREPARED body.
God SAID, call Him Jesus.

WOW....really....what does Gods WORD LOOK LIKE?
AS a man.
LIKE a man.
WAS SEEN BY MEN.
WAS CALLED A MAN.

AND?
“HUMAN” MEN, saw Him, and “thought” He WAS A “HUMAN” MAN.

AND?
SOME “HUMAN” men, Heard, Listened, Learned, He “IS” NOT a “HUMAN” MAN.

AND? To this day....
“Human men ON Earth”.......ARE Divided.

The DIVISION:
1) ONE SIDE:
some human men, SAY Jesus “IS” a created “human” man of dust.

2) OTHER SIDE;
some human men, SAY Jesus “IS” God, and appeared “AS” a human “man”.

3) some human men, (sit on the fence) SAYING the 2 OPPOSITES,
hoping they can find out and DIVE TO THE “RIGHT SIDE OF THE DIVIDE”.

1), 2), 3).......go Where do YOU STAND?

I already said WHERE I STAND....# 2)

Looks as YOU, are # 1)...maybe # 3)
Correct?

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

devin553344 said:
Definition of Soul: the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal.

Definition of soul, was not the point.
The point was, I was Speaking of a soul.
And your response was Speaking of a spirit.

Responding to what someone is not speaking of, is an irrelevant response.

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

Lifelong_sinner said:
we all sin. Daily. You sin daily. We cant stop from sinning.

You SIN DAILY? Don’t know what you mean...
What is an example of a SIN you committed “yesterday”?

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

Backlit said:
So a soul has a tongue and a finger and a mouth to talk with.

LOL...silly questions.
Tongue, Finger, Mouth......are BODY parts.
Taste, Touch, Speech........are SOUL capabilities!

Did you not learn....A BODY, tongue, finger, mouth...DOES NOTHING, without a SOUL IN THE BODY?

Gods ORDER and WAY.....is Paramount in the Entire Bible.
God “CREATES” and “MAKES”... <——create and make ARE Two different Actions.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
CREATED ^ BODY

and

breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
MADE ^ the BODY ALIVE, WITH A SOUL, LIFE FROM GODS BREATH

You think Jesus was describing a literal event, and offering a lesson on the state of the dead?

YOU THINK WHAT CAME OUT OF JESUS MOUTH, WAS A LIE?
If it was NOT “LITERAL”....IT WAS “FALSE”....FALSE IS A LIE.

Explain that....Why you think JESUS LIED?

What Jesus was using here was the Jews own unbiblical tradition to teach them the truth...[/B]

Nonsense. “ The Jews traditions were NOT unbiblical!”

Jesus was NOT teaching, what you say.
Jesus WAS “REVEALING KNOWLEDGE” that had been kept SECRET from “ALL” men.

People invent, dream, or imagine, theories and beliefs and sometimes very graphically, aided by the enemy of truth, which can sound very convincing, yet are at odds with scripture.

Click to expand...

“AT ODDS WiTH SCRIPTURE”?
That would be you....challenging that what JESUS SAID was “NOT LITERAL, which IS NOT TRUE”.

Taken · Jan 24, 2022

devin553344 said:
@Taken I found this and there are probably other relevant scriptures that also us the word 'as'. In this verse Jesus did become a man:

There is a huge difference between Calling Jesus a man, Because He LOOKED “as” a man...
And Saying Jesus “IS” a “HUMAN” man.

Bruce Jenner was naturally born a HUMAN MALE.
He looked like a boy.
He was called a boy.
He went potty in the little boys bathroom.
He played sports on all male teams.
He grew.
He was called a man.
He gained notoriety and fame.
He married a woman.
He was a husband.
He laid down with his wife.
He had children.
His fame drifted away into history.
He divorced.
He married a woman with upcoming notoriety.
He was back in the fame game.
His wife, her children, were front and center of the notoriety fame tabloids.
He was a background staple.
He divorced.
He attaches to the latest society fame tabloids gimmick to gain his lost fame.
He OUTWARDLY CHANGES HIS MALE appearance to LOOK AS Female.
He began identifying HIM-self, as HER, SHE, FEMALE.
He “WANTED” others to identify HIM, as HER, SHE, FEMALE.
He had “surgical” procedures to ALTER his MALE body parts.
He CHANGED “HIS” name.

So point being....
What would YOU call it?
A man, him, he, male, woman, she, her, female, it?
What DO YOU BELIEVE IT IS?
A man, him, he, male, woman, she, her, female, it?

Can people in Heaven know?

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