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Brakelite

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The misnomer the west has about Islam, and our media is largely responsible for generating this image immediately after 9-11, is that thete are two kinds of Islam, Islamists.
The radical and the moderate.

That's not true. Islam is one way, one word. Islam is not moderate, it is not tolerant. And what we today call terrorism is part and parcel of its doctrine.
The Muslim children who attend the Christian school I work for would disagree. The parents who send their children to my school, in preference to the much cheaper Muslim school just down the road would also disagree.
 
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Enoch111

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Islam is one way, one word. Islam is not moderate, it is not tolerant.
Correct. The so-called "moderates" are (a) either simply ignoring the Koran's directives for jihad (and are called apostates by the radicals) or (b) being silent partners in jihad through (1) Muslim migrant invasion, (2) breeding prolifically in the West, and (3) setting up mosques in anticipation of their Caliphate. A mosque was set up just recently in Mississippi (?) against the wishes of the community, and through a court order. Would Muslim countries allow Christian churches the same privileges?
 
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Oceanprayers

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Correct. The so-called "moderates" are (a) either simply ignoring the Koran's directives for jihad (and are called apostates by the radicals) or (b) being silent partners in jihad through (1) Muslim migrant invasion, (2) breeding prolifically in the West, and (3) setting up mosques in anticipation of their Caliphate. A mosque was set up just recently in Mississippi (?) against the wishes of the community, and through a court order. Would Muslim countries allow Christian churches the same privileges?
Oh, sure. Which is why we see all those steeples in Iran and Saudi Arabia.
 

Oceanprayers

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The Muslim children who attend the Christian school I work for would disagree. The parents who send their children to my school, in preference to the much cheaper Muslim school just down the road would also disagree.
No they wouldn't.
You misunderstand why they send their children to Christian schools.
Muslims Send Their Children To Christian Schools To Prepare For 'Life In Modern Britain'


Muslims know Jesus as Isa in the Qur'an.
He is not the son of God because Allah has no sons.
 

Enoch111

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Something else to note is that the recent radical Muslim terrorist attack in Texas must have had local collaborators in order to get off the ground.

"As the attack was unfolding and it became apparent that a radical Islamist was spearheading the attack, we anticipated there would be all types of excuses supplied by law enforcement and the Biden administration attributing the horror to some other motive extraneous to Islamic anti-Semitism. We would hear, as dozens of times in the last fifteen years, that the perpetrator was “mentally unstable,” and that he was a “lone wolf.” The fact that the perpetrator was from a far-away English city near Manchester, had collaborators back there, and just a couple of weeks ago arrived in America indisputably points to a deliberate terrorist selection of an American synagogue. This cannot be attributed to some local who happened to be walking in the neighborhood and coincidentally passed a synagogue. Out of political correctness, or fear of being called Islamophobic, or because the Muslim community has become an integral and necessary component of the Democrat machine, the FBI, the media, and powerful voices routinely censor reasonable propositions pointing to danger to the Jewish community from elements within Islamic circles here in America."

At the same time Leftist Jews continue to support Democrats, even though it is the Democrats who are encouraging Muslims in the West to attack Christians and Jews! Also, the question arises -- for the last 20 years the general public (including little old ladies) has been subjected to annoying and useless delays at airports supposedly to catch Muslim terrorists, yet this Pakistani terrorist slipped through, and succeeded in holding a synagogue hostage. And nobody even knows how many terrorists and violent criminals have come through the southern border of the USA after Biden handed the border over to the cartels. Mexican cartels and Muslim terrorists have worked together for a long time.
 

Oceanprayers

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Something else to note is that the recent radical Muslim terrorist attack in Texas must have had local collaborators in order to get off the ground.

"As the attack was unfolding and it became apparent that a radical Islamist was spearheading the attack, we anticipated there would be all types of excuses supplied by law enforcement and the Biden administration attributing the horror to some other motive extraneous to Islamic anti-Semitism. We would hear, as dozens of times in the last fifteen years, that the perpetrator was “mentally unstable,” and that he was a “lone wolf.” The fact that the perpetrator was from a far-away English city near Manchester, had collaborators back there, and just a couple of weeks ago arrived in America indisputably points to a deliberate terrorist selection of an American synagogue. This cannot be attributed to some local who happened to be walking in the neighborhood and coincidentally passed a synagogue. Out of political correctness, or fear of being called Islamophobic, or because the Muslim community has become an integral and necessary component of the Democrat machine, the FBI, the media, and powerful voices routinely censor reasonable propositions pointing to danger to the Jewish community from elements within Islamic circles here in America."

At the same time Leftist Jews continue to support Democrats, even though it is the Democrats who are encouraging Muslims in the West to attack Christians and Jews! Also, the question arises -- for the last 20 years the general public (including little old ladies) has been subjected to annoying and useless delays at airports supposedly to catch Muslim terrorists, yet this Pakistani terrorist slipped through, and succeeded in holding a synagogue hostage. And nobody even knows how many terrorists and violent criminals have come through the southern border of the USA after Biden handed the border over to the cartels. Mexican cartels and Muslim terrorists have worked together for a long time.
Democrats, terrorist Muslims, drug cartels as allies. :confused:
HRC, who has been really quiet since the election, was the TM factions great ally.
Conservative Truth - Administration and Clinton Covering Up Terrorism Threat - Robin Rowan - 2016-06-20
 

Brakelite

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And so the evangelical response is... Join Caesar to oust the barbarians. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the gospel but I'm sure it will work. War is at least a great money maker right?
 
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JohnPaul

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you never met a muslim, huh?

“crusades”
Yes I have, some may act friendly, but they all believe the same thing.

What about the Crusades? That was the Knights Templar defending the Holy land from the Tyrannical Muslims.
 
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JohnPaul

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If you believe that Rome is less dangerous than Riyadh, or Mecca, you haven't read your history. And you aren't watching the right news channels.
Yes I have read my history, that was during the medieval times the old days, the Church has since stopped persecuting Jews and Muslims, the Muslims haven't changed one bit, they've gotten even more violent.

Are you a defender of the Muslims?
 

Lambano

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Yes I have, some may act friendly, but they all believe the same thing.

Good grief, people. Do any of you actually know any real Muslim people?

C'mon, people, if you want to find out what they really believe, talk to your neighbors, your coworkers, the shopkeepers, whoever. Deal with real people, not stereotypes. And if you have real relationships, with real people, maybe they'll listen when you tell them about Jesus.
 
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Oceanprayers

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Good grief, people. Do any of you actually know any real Muslim people?

C'mon, people, if you want to find out what they really believe, talk to your neighbors, your coworkers, the shopkeepers, whoever. Deal with real people, not stereotypes. And if you have real relationships, with real people, maybe they'll listen when you tell them about Jesus.
That's a good question for you actually.
You appear to know little to nothing of Islam. Just running the Lefts stereotype.
 
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Lambano

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That's a good question for you actually.
You appear to know little to nothing of Islam. Just running the Lefts stereotype.
No, I actually talked to the Muslim couple down the street, this Pakistani programmer I once had working for me, the guy who runs the sandwich shop (great gyros and Philly cheesesteaks), and one of my vendors out in California. I had to set the California guy straight about what I thought about living as a Christian under Sharia law, but other than that, these are just people with families who just want to live the way they understand God wants them to live.

How many Muslims have you talked to?
 
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Lambano

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And do the evangelical response is... Join Caesar to oust the barbarians. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the gospel but I'm sure it will work. War is at least a great money maker right?
Baseball manager Billy Martin is attributed with saying, "On any team, you'll have 5 guys who are willing to run through a brick wall for you. You'll have 3 guys who hate your guts. The rest just want to play ball and pick up their paycheck. The trick to managing is to keep the 3 guys who hate you away from the 17 guys who don't care."

The strategy was laid out in the period between the 9/11 attacks and the beginning of the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. The strategists in the Bush administration knew that in any religion, most of the adherents are strictly nominal. You have what my Jewish friend called "Revolving Door" Jews: In at Rosh Hoshana, out at Yom Kippur. Never set foot in the synagogue any other time of the year. These are analogous to the "Twice-a-Year" Christians: They attend Christmas Eve and Easter Morning services, and that's it. Or think of the families who show up at church on Sunday morning and go through the motions. The Muslims (like my programmer) who go to the mosque on Friday and go through the prayers, maybe fast during Ramadan, but it's shallow rooted. What the war strategists feared was that the nominal Muslims in the US and other Western countries would see the invasions as part of a war on their religion and be pushed to identify with the radicals. Then we'd have serious internal problems. The mainstream media was of course happy to go along with a policy of espousing tolerance, but in this case the policy was part of a right-wing war strategy.
 
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Brakelite

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No they wouldn't.
You misunderstand why they send their children to Christian schools.
Muslims Send Their Children To Christian Schools To Prepare For 'Life In Modern Britain'


Muslims know Jesus as Isa in the Qur'an.
He is not the son of God because Allah has no sons.
I wasn't suggesting they send their children to a Christian school to learn about Jesus. But they'll learn about Jesus there anyway... At least at my school they do. They send their children here to receive a good education recognizing that the state system is now a ruinous heap. But this thread want about Islam. We all know what Islam is capable of. We all know Muslim families in our neighborhood who seek no harm on anyone. The same with Catholics.
We know that. There's no controversy there.
This thread is about the current passion and desire among evangelical Christians to seek political power... The political power promised by Trump... The political power that gives one section of the church legislative muscle to enshrine Christian virtue and Christian morality. My question is, who decides on the benchmark for Christian virtue and morality, and what gives Christians the mandate to enforce through legislation those moral benchmarks who do not share our worldview??
James Madison put it powerfully this way: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?”
 
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bbyrd009

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Aunty Jane

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I would just like to reiterate these words of Jesus....
John 17:14-18...
"I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I am not asking You to take them out of the world, but to keep them away from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 Just as You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world."

Now, these statements are very important because they give Christians a platform from which to practice their Christianity.
When Jesus said that his disciples were to be “not of the world”....what part of the world did he mean?

Jesus was tempted by the devil soon after his baptism and was offered
“all the kingdoms of the world and their glory” for “one act of worship”. But what the devil said during that offer tells us the answer to that question....
Luke 4:3-7...

“And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” (ESV)

Jesus did not deny the devil’s ownership of all those kingdoms, which in modern language are governments over nations. A kingdom is a “king” and a “dom”ain over which he exercises his rulership.

1 John 5:19 says...

“We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.” (ESV)
Now, if the devil is controlling “the whole world” by means of its governments, what does that mean for Christians? If Jesus said that his kingdom is “no part of the world” (John 18:36) then all the kingdoms or governments of this world, despite whatever claims they may make to be “Christians”, are actually puppets for the devil to work his evil in this world. Step back and see it. What government is is free of corruption? What always corrupts humans? Power!

All the admonition from Jesus and his apostles was to refrain from bloodshed and not to
“return evil for evil”...and to “love our enemies”. ( Romans 12:17-21; Matthew 5:43-44)

Since Jesus said we must not be part of satan’s world governmental system, it means having no political ‘horses’ in any race that he initiates. He uses emotions to draw people into issues that challenge their natural sense of justice....it’s called propaganda and it works well for all governments to whip up their citizens to rise up and protect their nation from its enemies.

However, one tactic used by many governmental leaders down through history is to attack its own citizens and then blame the enemy so that the population will be outraged and be more than willing to support its government to go and mete out retribution. What they don’t know is the underlying reason for the attack in the first place.....it is usually not anything noble, but based on the supposed enemy having something they want.....but if the people knew the real reason why they are going to war, they would never have sacrificed their lives for those corrupt individuals and their wicked agenda.

Patriotism is inculcated in children from a young age, and it is hard to counter that “hand on the heart” dedication to a nation that is actually placed on the same level as worship. The national flag then becomes an idol. So, when one’s nationalistic pride is challenged, those who view themselves as Christians now have their loyalty divided. Sadly most “Christians” will opt for their patriotism, which will often be reinforced by religious leaders who value their friendship with the world, over their friendship with God. (James 4:4)

If Christian leaders do not teach what Christ taught, but actually find excuses to ignore his counsel and commands, then they cease to be “Christians”, because Christianity is about how well you obey Jesus’ teachings and imitate his example, rather than choosing to obey some things, but avoiding obedience and excusing disobedience in others.

So where does that leave Christians who are actively supporting political agendas and promoting certain men or political parties which often leads to conflict even among their own brothers in the faith? If all the world’s governments are under the devil’s control then that explains the bloodshed and the violence and corruption.....Jesus’ true disciples will be “no part” of any of that, otherwise we will have blood on our own hands. In that case God will turn away from us.

God’s words to his own people when they shed blood without his sanction....
When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.” (Isaiah 1:15 -ESV)

Christ’s disciples have one role.....to preach and teach about God’s Kingdom as the only solution to man’s problems.....so we should all be concentrating on that very important role, rather than propping up what God will soon destroy, and listening to those who are promoting the wrong kingdom, for all the wrong reasons.
 

Oceanprayers

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No, I actually talked to the Muslim couple down the street, this Pakistani programmer I once had working for me, the guy who runs the sandwich shop (great gyros and Philly cheesesteaks), and one of my vendors out in California. I had to set the California guy straight about what I thought about living as a Christian under Sharia law, but other than that, these are just people with families who just want to live the way they understand God wants them to live.

How many Muslims have you talked to?

You're an infidel asking them about Islam? Why not study Islam yourself?
A Christian asking Muslims about Islam is going to get a response that those Muslims feel you want to hear. Need to hear. Why not study Islam and know what Islam is?
Because any Muslim has and that is what they obey.
 
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Oceanprayers

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I wasn't suggesting they send their children to a Christian school to learn about Jesus. But they'll learn about Jesus there anyway... At least at my school they do. They send their children here to receive a good education recognizing that the state system is now a ruinous heap. But this thread want about Islam. We all know what Islam is capable of. We all know Muslim families in our neighborhood who seek no harm on anyone. The same with Catholics.
We know that. There's no controversy there.
This thread is about the current passion and desire among evangelical Christians to seek political power... The political power promised by Trump... The political power that gives one section of the church legislative muscle to enshrine Christian virtue and Christian morality. My question is, who decides on the benchmark for Christian virtue and morality, and what gives Christians the mandate to enforce through legislation those moral benchmarks who do not share our worldview??
James Madison put it powerfully this way: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other sects?”
This part of your post: "But this thread want about Islam."
You should get with the author of the OP . The OP states quite clearly this thread is about Islam.
 
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JohnPaul

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And now the descendants of those knights rule the world. Ironic huh.
And who may those descendants of the Knights Templar be that rule the world today, if they were captured and killed by the French King who didn't want them to have more power and money than him?

Only a few survived that fled to Portugal and Scotland, where they were favored by their ruling Kings Robert the Bruce of Scotland and King Dinis of Portugal.

And the Templars not only protected the Holy land from the Muslims, but also it's Christian and Jewish pilgrims going to the Holy land.