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You might want to include yourself with those that help make the term christian of no real distinction or value in the world as well.KCKID said:
Did you know that people of the OT were also saved by grace? The Law has never saved anyone.stefen said:
Do you sin? Even though you might repent of your sins?stefen said:
Not sure what that's supposed to mean.stefen said:
As far as I know I'm not contradicting the Bible. But, perhaps you might be.stefen said:
Um ...I think you might be getting me mixed up with someone who actually cares about your belittling opinion, Rex.Rex said:
That's right. But even then, 'good' and 'bad' are very subjective terms. In regard to homosexuality and Christianity it's been my experience over the years that a Christian 1. personally finds homosexuality to be an objectionable sexual practice, and then 2. uses the Bible to support their own personal feelings on the subject. It's hardly ever the other way around. I would rather that Christians be honest and come right out and say, "I don't approve of homosexuality" rather than their saying, "God doesn't approve of homosexuality." Sure, they would still be referred to as 'bigots' if they were to belittle or demonize homosexuals but that would be easier to deal with.JackSafari said:
That's right. Moreover, there is NO REASON for one to try to change their sexual orientation anyway. In my opinion and the opinions of many others the worst thing that can happen to a homosexual (whose intent is merely to be accepted 'as is' and to harm no one) is for someone else (so-called Christian therapy, for instance) to be messing with their head. And, I say the following with no substantiating evidence whatever to offer ...I believe that those so-called Christian therapists are themselves those that have allowed religiosity to mess with their heads. And, that ain't good either.JackSafari said:
And here is where the pot calls the kettle blackKCKID said:
Um . . .okay . . .Rex said:
Where have I specifically accused anyone of bigotry? What I HAVE said is that someone who demeans a homosexual by virtue of their homosexuality is a bigot. Are you a bigot? Since I don't know you only you would know.Rex said:
I'm afraid that's just religious and rather meaningless rhetoric to me. I'm a human being, I live in the real world, I try to live as a Christian should, I don't believe in hurting anyone and I'm accepting of anyone who would desire to be a part of my particular Christian belief. If they need to be 'cleaned up' then that can come later. I'm opposed to any 'Christian' belief that causes others to feel pain and hatred or that is contrary in any way to the teaching of Jesus. His teaching in a nutshell? . . .love not hate. Am I therefore a saint? Nope, 'fraid not ...far from it. In fact, I often catch myself being the very hypocrite that I might accuse others of being. Humans . . .Rex said:
When did churches collectively start 'supporting homosexuals'?
Obviously you don't. What you have stated on here is proof that you live in la la land.
I don't know about the others, but the MCC church in America is a "church" founded by Gays. You really know a lot about their community.KCKID said:
MCC is a bastard church. I have attended the Melbourne one and to say the least it is creepy.
A few comments. We are born a-sexual. Our interest in sex is non existent. That is developed according to our emotional development and upbringing. Generally speaking, homosexuals are very dysfunctional emotionally because of emotional trauma experienced in childhood.
Rex said:
That's my point, you have done a very good job of testifying you are not born from above.KCKID said:
They are even denied by the US National Council of Churches. Being denied by Catholicism is one thing, but being denied by both Catholcism and Protestantism? Says a lot about the church.Axehead said:
A very good point drangonfly and it backs up what I have told him already that homosexuality is worshipping the creature rather than the creator as the scripture indicates so it is idol worship, but as we know when you are on a crusade to legitimise that which is forbidden by God you have to rationalise all sorts of excuses and excuse all sorts of forbidden fruit.
Good point again dragonfly. Many homosexuals said they were looking for love and were offered homosex and whist they did not like the sex, they did like the acceptance and the intimacy of the act so they pursued it for that reason. Eventually they get comfortable with homosex.
In the interests of clarity, can you explain what you mean by homophobia?
I know it is not the subject of the thread but as you raised it I thought I would investigate scripture as to what it says about saints. From the following verses there is no such thing as a greater or lesser saint or believer All the references to saints were to the everyday people of the fellowship as the ones you call saints did not exist when it was written so what you are saying is an invention of the Catholic Church, not scripture.
As mentioned previously, it would have occurred quite naturally when SO MANY homosexuals were becoming less afraid about who they are as more and more of them 'came out of the closet'. I would also guess that this is when the so-called 'clobber texts' of the Bible were re-studied as to their traditional accuracy since at least some of these thousands of homosexuals had an interest in becoming Christians. I don't know ...I'm just using an educated guess here. All I DO know is that a re-study of those particular scriptures was a good thing. There is no need for one to remain ignorant unless they choose to be.SilenceInMotion said:
I'm not really that interested in the 'politics' of christianity. Keep it simple is rather my motto. So, I really have no comment on what you say above. I do, however, believe that many (?) Churches today see no reason to abide by the archaic and often tyrannical codes and instructions of a God who had a favored people and appears to have hated everyone else. In fact, is it not true that Jesus came to actually save us from the wrath of God? How else would you explain Jesus? The Old Testament God is certainly not someone that "I" can relate to. If others of you can relate to and glorify a deity who gets red in the face with jealous hysteria when He isn't being worshipped and zaps people out of existence simply because He can ...then good luck to you. Then again, 'fear factor' can have people doing and believing in all kinds of irrational things.SilenceInMotion said:
We're instructed by someone that I CAN relate to to love our neighbor as ourselves. The rest of what you refer to is merely superfluous 'fluff'. Why do you find it necessary to complicate that simple message with politics that simply serve to make you angry?SilenceInMotion said:
As someone said to me a few pages back ...relax and sip on a cool drink. The FACTS ARE that homosexuality is with us and it isn't going to go away DESPITE all of the pious brow-beating that's going on here. If homosexuals have a need for Jesus and desire to attend a Church to get some spiritual value, just the same as do heterosexuals, then just leave them alone. Why is this even an issue to you?SilenceInMotion said:
No, I live in the REAL world ...not in some cruel and archaic culture from the mists of time that, because of their belief system, killed countless thousands of people for not believing as they did. And THAT appears to be your preferred world. That said, there is MUCH about this world that I don't like either. A perfect world is a myth.SilenceInMotion said:
That is highly unlikely for one simple reason. If the pink mafia could throw up evidence that you are born homosexual, don't you think that they would have jumped on the bandwagon a long time ago because that would have silenced their critics.
And, the last part of your post is intended to belittle me. Why do you feel it necessary to do that?Axehead said:
Jack, no church is inclusive that is why we have denominations. T.D. Jakes said that denominations are tribal Christianity. If you don't belong to my tribe you are not acceptable.
In addition, the Uniting Church is losing ground at a rate of knots. When they united, many people jumped ship as it became too liberal and when it embraced the homosexual cause hook, line and sinker, it lost even more ground and several of their churches left the Union.
