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Thank you OSASers for saying I can NEVER be unsaved. Wish I could say the same for you.
2 Peter 2:20-22.....
For me, it is about respect. We should obey our parents, the Bible tells us so, and God is our heavenly father. Our parents might turn us out of the house and home for disobedience, and the God of the Bible is very strict with all his commandments. I would rather play it safe. Just my opinion, and anyway, the commandments are for our own good. Do you want to be branded a rebel?
Lifelong_sinner said:
See post #9
Wholeheartedly agreed. But you're making the very point that you're trying to argue against. Which is, quite frankly, incredible. But so be it. Salvation, once given, cannot be lost, because it's God, not we ourselves, who maintains it in us:
Right, and the Spirit makes this a reality. He "keeps us from stumbling" so that, eventually, we will be "present(ed) blameless before the presence of His glory..." ~ to Jesus, at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6, cited above) ~ "...with great joy," as Jude puts it (Jude 24).
Yes, we do, but we have different understandings of parts of it, and that's the problem. But regarding at least some of the things in the Bible, it really (ultimately speaking) doesn't matter much that there is disagreement. For example:
discussion, but what really matters ~ ultimately ~ is that we will be in the new heaven and new earth in eternity. Right?It's not new at all. It's as old as the Bible itself. "New Age"... pfffft. No offense, but that's just an ignorant statement.
Right, agreed, and in fact it says, over and over again in different ways, that our salvation is a work of God that cannot be undone, even by God Himself. I mean, it could, I guess, but God promises not to do that, and all His promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ.
Yeah, nobody's saying that, "OSAS" or anyone else. That sin has no consequence is a heresy called antinomianism.
Paul (whose words in the Bible were breathed into him by God Himself by His Spirit) says that absolutely nothing can separate Christians (those who are in Christ Jesus, placed there according to the will of God and by the working of the Holy Spirit within us) from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:38-39). And Peter (again, whose words in the Bible were breathed into him by God Himself by His Spirit) says Christians are born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for them, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. I still have yet to hear from any "OSBNR" (Once Saved But Not Really
) a different, um, take on what Paul and Peter, who together wrote 15 (possibly 16, because Paul might be the writer of Hebrews but we're not sure) of the 27 books of the New Testament in addition to appearing prominently in one other, that being Acts) actually said at least in those two particular instances.Yes, those things (like the Paul's list in Galatians 5:19-21) are certainly disqualifiers, but he offers these as works of the flesh and contrasts them with the fruit of the Spirit. And what he's saying there is that if you see those things in people and not the fruit of the spirit, then becomes evident that those folks are not saved ~ at least not yet, because they may yet be at some point in the future. And if they continue in those works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit never manifests itself in them and their actions, they will indeed not inherit the kingdom of God. And he states this clearly in verse 24, that those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. But this should not be understood to mean that they are then sinless and thus still in need of Christ and the Spirit, because that would be mere self-deception. Indeed, in the very next verse, Paul exhorts us to live by the Spirit, and to keep in step with the Spirit (rather than the sinful flesh).
Yes, undoubtedly, but, well, same as above. These would be people whom Christ never knew (loved),... you even quote Him in that; "I never knew you"... not whom He once (or multiple times
) knew ~ loved ~ once but then lost fellowship with. Surely you see that. Yes, but no one can stand on his works/deeds alone. The difference is that some ~ those who are in Christ ~ will have an Advocate, Christ Himself, who is God Himself, in Whose righteousness they will stand... and pass.
Right, there is no question that we cannot lose our salvation once it is granted us by God, Who can do all things, and no purpose of His can be thwarted (Job 42:2... on top of the Romans 8 and 1 Peter 1 citations above). The only question ~ and one that we can only answer of ourselves, with the help of the Holy Spirit ~ is, "Am I a Christian?" Or, "am I in Christ?" And this is faith, which is an assurance (Hebrews 8:1) given by God Himself (Ephesians 2:8-10).
There will be no Christians (no one who is in Christ) in hell. That supposition or any close to it is utterly ridiculous and false.
The sin of unbelief.
1) only the sin of unbelief can cause you to be removed from the grace of God, and 2) the Bible is very clear that God does not allow a person to get re-saved once they are turned over to their unbelief.
But, as John tells us, those who don't believe never believed, even those who think they once did believe:
But, per John's statement cited above, they were never really in the grace of God (in Christ) in the first place.
Sure, but it's never necessary to be "re-saved." Because those who are saved ~ born again of the Spirit and thus of God, and of other believers as John puts it above ~ have received the salvific grace of God and are kept in it by God Himself, because of the Father's will, the Son's work on the Cross, and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit in him/her. Yet again, Paul says that absolutely nothing can separate Christians (those who are in Christ Jesus, placed there according to the will of God and by the working of the Holy Spirit within us) from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:38-39), and Peter says Christians are born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for them, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:3-5).
