When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

Christ4Me said:

I'd still say because one is born again by believing in Jesus Christ is why no one can tell exactly when one is born again.

If water baptism is essential then what happened here in Acts 8?

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

These were potential believers water baptized in His name for believing the things Philip preached about. Why were they not saved yet since they did not have the Holy Ghost?

Why did Paul deferred from water baptism by announcing that believing in the preaching of the cross is how we are saved?

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God...... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

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In Acts 8 Simon and those Samarians "believed and were baptized" per Mark 16:16 therefore saved. Afterwards Apostles laid hands upon them giving them miraculous gifts, but this had nothing to do with there perosnal salvation fro they were saved when they believed and were baptized.

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1 Cor 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
This is a not-but ellipsis where the meaning is God did not send Paul merely to baptize but also preach. For Paul DID baptized (1 Corinthians 1:14,16) and did not sin in baptizing. Paul, as all disciples, are under the great commission to go, teach, baptize. It would be a logical contradiction to command disciples to baptize then turn right around and command them not to baptize.

John 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life,
Again, the idea is not merely work for the food that perishes but also work for the spiritual food. Jesus did not literally mean not to work for the physical food one eats for that contradicts 2 Thessalonians 3:10 "if any would not work, neither should he eat".

Article on ellipsis:
Biblical Figures of Speech: Ellipsis

The context of 1 Corinthians 1 PROVES the necessity of baptism. Those in Corinth were divided following men instead of all following Christ. In order to heal this division and get ALL there following Christ, Paul asks a rhetorical question in the negative:

v13
"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

In the positive, Paul is saying 'Christ is NOT divided. Christ crucified for you, you were baptized in the name of Christ.

Paul's point of v13 is to show that one cannot be of Paul, Cephas or Apollos for they were crucified for those Corinthians and those Corinthians were not baptized in any of their names.

Therefore if you and I are to "of" some man, then 2 things must be true of that man, that man must have been crucified for us AND we must be baptized in that man's name.

Since these 2 things are only true of Christ, then for us to be of Christ, He must have been
(1) crucified for us AND we must
(2) be baptized in His name.

(1) Was Christ crucified for us? Yes, Hebrews 2:9 Christ died for every man. So why isn't every man saved? For every man will not be (2) baptized in the name of Christ (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48)

Therefore if we are to be "of" Christ then BOTH 1 and 2 MUST be true, (1) Christ must be crucified for us (He was) and we (2) must be baptized in the name of Christ (I was, don't know about you)

farouk said:

Indeed, I would certainly not hold that baptizing someone causes the person to be born again.

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Right. To be born again of the Spirit is, of course, a work of the Spirit. And it is baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire (Matthew 3:11) that is effectual unto salvation.

farouk said:

Acts 2.41 makes it clear that it was those who 'gladly received his word' who were baptized; i.e., they were believers already and showed that they were believers by being willing to be baptized.

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Right. They were "cut to the heart," as Luke says in Acts 2:37, which is a work of the Spirit. Exactly.

Grace and peace to all.

We are not regenerated by water baptism, only people already as believers are water baptized as a sign of a good conscience towards God.

We are regenerated by the Spirit according to God's love and mercy toward us.

John writes this for the saved people only, he is not speaking to the unbelieving world, and it agrees with Ephesians 2
Most of the letters to the churches, the apostles are writing scripture in reference to the people in the churches only, and they are very clear when they speak of the outside world who are unsaved. A lot of people mistakenly apply scripture to those who do not believe in Christ.

v7, the unbelieving world is not born of God, and they are not His children. People also tend to apply the propitiation randomly to the unbelieving world.


1 john 4
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

The unbelieving world will not have boldness on Judgement Day, and we only love God because HE loved us first, read Ephesians 2

17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Christ4Me said:

Romans 8:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Never going to happen which is why we are warned not to grieve the holy Spirit in us by not sowing to the works of the flesh but by sowing to the fruits.

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There are many such places like this.

Romans 9:33 KJV
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Why are some so reluctant to believe?

Much love!

Christ4Me said:

Now that He is in us always since salvation, we have confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us by helping us to lay aside every weight & sin daily while enabling us to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. This is why we have no need for another filling of the "spirit" to do that. One drink of the One Spirit is sufficient by Whom we have all been baptized into that one body by, for why we live by faith in Jesus Christ.

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I find in Acts various times that the disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit", however, as Ephesians 4 teaches, there is ONE baptism, and as Romans 6 teaches, that baptism is being immersed into Christ.

Much love!

Episkopos said:

So we ought not to put our confidence in a gift but rather go to God and enter into the fullness of a walk in Him.

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Putting our confidence in God is exactly how we go on to a closer walk with God. These are not contrary, but are interrelated.

This is the express teaching of the following passage . . .

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

marks said:

I find in Acts various times that the disciples were "filled with the Holy Spirit", however, as Ephesians 4 teaches, there is ONE baptism, and as Romans 6 teaches, that baptism is being immersed into Christ.

Much love!

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1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Scott Downey said:

We are not regenerated by water baptism...

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Yes. Water baptism is very important (more on that in a moment), but not effectual of regeneration, as only God, by His Spirit, can do that.

Scott Downey said:

...only people already as believers are water baptized as a sign of a good conscience towards God.

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Well, if they haven't been baptized before, yes. Water baptism is a sign and seal of the covenant administered by men, and it is a calling ~ issued by us, made in faith ~ on God's promise, which is for us and our children, as Peter says there in Acts 2. So we really should have our children and our whole households baptized ~ including infants ~ as Peter exhorts. In the case of infants, it is the Christian parents ~ and the church body~ acting on and showing their faith in God to work salvation in their child in His time. And the pastors and other congregants are pledging to help the parents where necessary in their raising of the child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Scott Downey said:

We are regenerated by the Spirit according to God's love and mercy toward us.

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Yes. Absolutely.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

Christ4Me said:

Power to live as the sons of God has been received at salvation so we can go forward and walk with Christ always.

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I agree, @Episkopos denies the real power to renew us. Denying we have that power in Christ now means we will not walk in it.

Much love!

Hello to whoever may read this,

When a person is born again their desires change, to seek after the things of God rather than the earthly.

It is not someone can notice from with inside of the heart of the individual but there is a different life that is presented, however there are things that people struggle with such as drugs, and whatever else it may be: However that is possibly because of them not overcoming the flesh as of yet (which we will still sin (maybe not as often when living by the spirit) because if we say we do not have sin that means we are lying).

God can deliver people from drugs, but if that person believes in their heart and they faith on Jesus and set out to have love for God, and love for others.

No one can judge. I know the only person I should judge is myself, and remember that I myself am not better than any other persons and that Jesus Christ is the only one who is able to give us peace that is not of this world. Jesus is the only one who makes us right with God by faith.

Thank you for reading,
Matthew G.

Christ4Me said:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Until they were born again of the Spirit, they were not saved yet, brother. Water baptism did not do anything for them.

And I still say Mark 16:16 is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost because it is by not believing they are damned.



You missed the truth. If water baptism was important as essential to salvation, he would never say that.

And what is more, Paul went on to stress that it is the preaching of the cross so that those who hear & believe are saved by God for why he said he was not sent to water baptize but preach the gospel.

God saves those who believe and is not limiting Himself from saving any one by waiting for someone to be water baptized first.

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When Jesus said this in John 3, He was speaking of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and the washing of regeneration, so this water is not pond or river water
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

We can also see that in the OT prophecies
See how much of the NC symbolism is in this OT scriptures, Hebrews 8 about the NC touches on the same theme. And also flocks of men pointing to the sheep of Christ. God saves us for His great names sake, For His Word, His promises.

Ezekiel 36

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.

25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”

33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”

37 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”

Christ4Me said:

I believe in those instances that Luke is reporting about the early church in Acts is to explain that His disciples were not doing it by their flesh or by their will, but as led by the Spirit of Christ to say or do. So "filled with the Spirit" to me in Acts mean none of what they had said or done was by their will power or by their efforts so believers reading that can know that is how they will serve the Lord too as they are always filled with the Spirit since salvation to be led by the Spirit of Christ.

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Acts 4:8 KJV
8) Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 4:31 KJV
31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

"was shaken" and "were filled" are both in the aorist passive form, it seems to me that both here are happening in the same way, at that time.

I see a distinction from being baptized in the Spirit, which is being immersed into Christ, and being subsequently filled with the Spirit, which I see to be a special experience for a particular purpose, whether to preach with boldness, or to go your way rejoicing, or whatever it may be.''

Much love!

marks said:

I agree, @Episkopos denies the real power to renew us. Denying we have that power in Christ now means we will not walk in it.

Much love!

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That's simply not true. You'd have to be familiar with Romans 7 to understand the point. Paul claimed that sin remained in his members AFTER knowing the Lord, loving the Lord, and wanting to follow after the Lord and His ways.

What is being denied is the power of the cross of Christ. There is no life IN Christ without walking also in His death. The power that sets us free from the outer man of sin is not popular in the modern church, where sin is taken for granted. But how does falling short of the glory of God make the change that takes place in the heart not real at regeneration? The DESIRE to do well is there. Christianity ...the New Covenant is a means...not an end. It is a race not a doctrinal position.

So then few will know the walk in the victory of a resurrection life because they are happy with an empty lamp. The initial grace received at regeneration is a SAMPLE of God's overcoming power and grace. To have the full product one must purchase it with everything we are in the second work of grace. Think of the parable of the kingdom where the one who wishes the pearl of great price must purchase the field. If we truly love the Lord we will not just rely on what comes easy. How many only want the free stuff but are unwilling to be a living sacrifice?

So then the defense of regeneration over being filled with the Spirit makes people an enemy of the cross. They are SELF-centered in thinking that God accepts them to remain just as they are...rather than having them be transformed into the image of Christ.

No one is born again into spiritual maturity. New believers may soon revert to the flesh as their oil runs out. Until we are further connected to the power of a full measure of grace, the initial experience will fade away to be replaced by religious posturing that in the end loses you that free gift. Burying the talent does not lead to glory.

But many rich Westerners are in fact destined for eternal shame...and there is nothing that will humble them into a Christ-like surrender.

marks said:

Putting our confidence in God is exactly how we go on to a closer walk with God. These are not contrary, but are interrelated.

This is the express teaching of the following passage . . .

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

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You are not seeing that the bible testifies to the access we have for the grace needed to stand. Your religious conditioning is blinding you to the full measure of grace that is available as we go to the cross.

You will not understand the throne of grace and its purpose. You would rather rest on a free sample that is meant to awaken you to eternal life....but that few will seek after. Jesus healed 10 lepers. How many went back? Just one. In our time the percentage is far lower due to false teaching.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Episkopos said:

That's simply not true. You'd have to be familiar with Romans 7 to understand the point. Paul claimed that sin remained in his members AFTER knowing the Lord, loving the Lord, and wanting to follow after the Lord and His ways.

What is being denied is the power of the cross of Christ. There is no life IN Christ without walking also in His death. The power that sets us free from the outer man of sin is not popular in the modern church, where sin is taken for granted. But how does falling short of the glory of God make the change that takes place in the heart not real at regeneration? The DESIRE to do well is there. Christianity ...the New Covenant is a means...not an end. It is a race not a doctrinal position.

So then few will know the walk in the victory of a resurrection life because they are happy with an empty lamp. The initial grace received at regeneration is a SAMPLE of God's overcoming power and grace. To have the full product one must purchase it with everything we are in the second work of grace. Think of the parable of the kingdom where the one who wishes the pearl of great price must purchase the field. If we truly love the Lord we will not just rely on what comes easy. How many only want the free stuff but are unwilling to be a living sacrifice?

So then the defense of regeneration over being filled with the Spirit makes people an enemy of the cross. They are SELF-centered in thinking that God accepts them to remain just as they are...rather than having them be transformed into the image of Christ.

No one is born again into spiritual maturity. New believers may soon revert to the flesh as their oil runs out. Until we are further connected to the power of a full measure of grace, the initial experience will fade away to be replaced by religious posturing that in the end loses you that free gift. Burying the talent does not lead to glory.

But many rich Westerners are in fact destined for eternal shame...and there is nothing that will humble them into a Christ-like surrender.

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Yes, well God makes it possible for us to walk in His ways. By putting His laws into our minds and writing them upon our hearts.
That is what regeneration does for us, God in us the hope of glory. He actually indwells His people in the NC relationship and we have a new spirit within us that can learn from God, worship Christ and the old enmity is done away with between God and man.

God is at work in us, and the new spirit is joined as one spirit with God. That is why Paul in Romans 7 and 8 gives so much thanks to God for what He is doing in us.
No doubt some are false brethren, never having been born of God at all.

Which is why Peter writes like this about the ELECT,

1 Peter 1
New International Version
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

1 To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Episkopos said:

we are in the second work of grace.

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By the same faith that we are justified, this is the same faith as that we stand in His grace. There is no "second work of grace".

Much love!