When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

Episkopos · Jan 25, 2022

My people perish for lack of knowledge. Many false teachers have arisen to settle people in their flesh. This is very popular and necessary for a "successful" ministry. But it is a ministry that avoids the cross.

Modern believers in the West are taught to avoid having to do anything to further their salvation for fear of trying to be saved by "works". They don't realize that we reap as WE have sown...not where God has sown. Being born again from above is an example of God sowing...NOT us. Going to God in order to purchase the full measure of grace is an example of US sowing to the Spirit in order that we might also reap of the Spirit. Notice the wicked servant in the parable sees the necessity of having God reap where WE have sown being vehemently resisted. The servant knew that God expected him to sow to the Spirit so that God could reap an eternal fruit...and he thought that it was HARD. So he buried his talent. This is very prevalent in modern churches.

Notice...

Matt. 25 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Today's believers are taught that the hard things are a gospel of works...so they will not seek the Lord for a full measure of grace. They remain with the initial talent which is subsequently buried in the religious posturing of the outer man. Who is wise to understand the warning of the Lord?

Do people realize that unless we go to the Lord for more grace we run the risk of losing everything to the one who has been faithful and productive in bearing fruit for his Lord?

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
.the New Covenant is a means...not an end. It is a race not a doctrinal position.

The new covenant is just that, a covenant. What God gives to us isn't a race, though our life is described as a race. God gives us life, not a doctrinal position. Life. Real eternal life . . . now . . . when we trust Him.

Salvation is not a race, and it's not a doctrinal position, it is new life in Christ. If you have it, you have it, and if you do not, you do not.

You are not going to gain "more" life in Christ because you approve of your behavior.

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
New believers may soon revert to the flesh as their oil runs out.

You just don't seem to me to have much confidence in Jesus to truly save us. You consistently put the duty to "keep ourselves saved" on the man himself.

We can live differently because we are different, not to make ourselves different. That is where you and I disagree. I look to Jesus, and you look to yourself, or so it seems to me.

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
So then the defense of regeneration over being filled with the Spirit makes people an enemy of the cross.

Something else I've seen you consistently do is to pit these two against each other as though they are at odds with each other.
We are regenerated to walk in the Spirit. They are not contrary.

This is just a convoluted way to say that those who believe regeneration is the impartation of eternal life, that these are "enemies of the cross". To which I say, Hogwash!

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
You are not seeing that the bible testifies to the access we have for the grace needed to stand. Your religious conditioning is blinding you to the full measure of grace that is available as we go to the cross.

What religious conditioning is that?

Once again, you turn on me. And what does it mean that you consistently act that way?

Much love!

Episkopos · Jan 25, 2022

marks said:
Something else I've seen you consistently do is to pit these two against each other as though they are at odds with each other.
We are regenerated to walk in the Spirit. They are not contrary.

This is just a convoluted way to say that those who believe regeneration is the impartation of eternal life, that these are "enemies of the cross". To which I say, Hogwash!

Much love!

Of course you will react this way. But no one is given the free gift of being a living sacrifice. THAT is what we are to return to the Lord. THAT is what gets us the second, third, fourth etc...work of grace. To be filled with the Spirit in an ongoing way requires we come before the throne of grace.

How will you understand how a servant gets 10 talents when you defend getting the first and then burying it in excuses and dogmatic posturings? Of course the flesh will reason it this way.

I marvel how rich Westerners will NOT learn the ways of God so that they remain as they are.

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Modern believers in the West are taught to avoid having to do anything.

I'm curious . . . you don't have to answer . . . do you live in modern times in the West?

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Of course you will react this way.

To call out false teaching? You bet!

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
when you defend getting the first and then burying it in excuses and dogmatic posturings?

Yeah, well, that's your posturing . . . not what I'm doing.

Much love!

Episkopos · Jan 25, 2022

marks said:
I'm curious . . . you don't have to answer . . . do you live in modern times in the West?

Much love!

Eternal reality only trumps temporal reality if you enter into it. That eternal reality is only entered into by the power of the cross...becoming dead to the world and the flesh with all its reasonings and religious posturings.

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Eternal reality only trumps temporal reality if you enter into it. That eternal reality is only entered into by the power of the cross...becoming dead to the world and the flesh with all its reasonings and religious posturings.

Cute! So that's a yes?

And to reply to your non-answer . . .

Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Eternal life is entered through Christ . . . "It is finished".

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Of course the flesh will reason it this way.

I think the flesh prefers to think of receiving from God based on personal merit. That I can be such a good disciple, that Surely God will see this, and reward me with More Holy Spirit.

But we receive what we receive from Him . . . In Christ.

Ephesians 1:3 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Eternal reality only trumps temporal reality if you enter into it.

The Bible speaks of regeneration followed by the renewing of the mind.

Much love!

Episkopos · Jan 25, 2022

marks said:
The Bible speaks of regeneration followed by the renewing of the mind.

Much love!

Renewing of the mind can be confused with the carnal mind ADAPTING to an experience. There is a world of difference between having the mind of Christ and a carnal religious mind that has gotten used to religious matters. We are very adaptable, as a means of survival. Just hope that what you are trying to survive is not a deeper work of the cross.

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Renewing of the mind can be confused with the carnal mind ADAPTING to an experience.

If you say so. But I don't see that. The Holy Spirit is faithful.

Broadbrushing others that way isn't productive in my opinion. But speaking in Biblical terminology helps to keep thinking clear.

Renewing the mind is more about when you stop thinking that you have to sin, or can't avoid sin, and you begin to think as an overcomer, and begin to overcome. When you put off the old, and put on the new.

Much love!

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Episkopos said:
Just hope that what you are trying to survive is not a deeper work of the cross.

And on this point . . . I'm not trying to survive anything, myself.

Much love!

Christ4Me · Jan 25, 2022

marks said:
Acts 4:8 KJV
8) Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. 50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. 51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. 52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

Now if that happened to an evangelist and his team today after a successful ministry, one would think they would be indignant and offended, but certainly not filled with joy. So in the eyes of the reader, they would doubt Paul & Barnabus would be filled with joy, and indeed, would think they were crazy, but if also filled with the Holy Ghost, to me that tells me how they could be that way and that was by the Holy Ghost in them for how they would not be naturally offended, and walking away resentful and bearing a grudge.

Do discern why Luke bothered to report that upon being kicked out and shaking the dust off of their feet and yet be joyful? Unless they did all those things by the Spirit of Christ in them. Certainly there was no need for them to be filled with the Holy Ghost in leaving, but certainly to do so with joy.

Acts 4:31 KJV
31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

"was shaken" and "were filled" are both in the aorist passive form, it seems to me that both here are happening in the same way, at that time.

I see a distinction from being baptized in the Spirit, which is being immersed into Christ, and being subsequently filled with the Spirit, which I see to be a special experience for a particular purpose, whether to preach with boldness, or to go your way rejoicing, or whatever it may be.''

Much love!

Acts 4 is about 5,000 potential new believers in Jesus Christ when Peter & John were arrested; sort of a salvation interrupted. Upon their release they went into their own company, those 5,000 potential new believers. It was those 5,000 potential new believers that had prayed that they could be like Peter & john in speaking boldly the word for when they got saved.

How do we know this to be true? By what those believers did afterwards by selling all that they had and laying it at the apostles' feet in distributing evenly among the new community of believers. If they were already saved believers, the why do that afterwards?

So when they all spake the word of God in boldness as filled with the holy Ghost when they got born again of the Spirit, I can see how that place can be shaken.

Anyway, that is how I am led to read that event.

Thanks for sharing.

marks · Jan 25, 2022

Christ4Me said:
Acts 4 is about 5,000 potential new believers in Jesus Christ when Peter & John were arrested; sort of a salvation interrupted. Upon their release they went into their own company, those 5,000 potential new believers. It was those 5,000 potential new believers that had prayed that they could be like Peter & john in speaking boldly the word for when they got saved.

How do we know this to be true? By what those believers did afterwards by selling all that they had and laying it at the apostles' feet in distributing evenly among the new community of believers. If they were already saved believers, the why do that afterwards?

So when they all spake the word of God in boldness as filled with the holy Ghost when they got born again of the Spirit, I can see how that place can be shaken.

Anyway, that is how I am led to read that event.

Thanks for sharing.

This is an interesting perspective, and led me to relook at the passage . . .

Acts 4:24-31 KJV
24) And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25) Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26) The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28) For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29) And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
30) By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
31) And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

I think the passage supports your thinking here. Very good!

Much love!

Ernest T. Bass · Jan 26, 2022

Christ4Me said:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Until they were born again of the Spirit, they were not saved yet, brother. Water baptism did not do anything for them.

And I still say Mark 16:16 is about the baptism with the Holy Ghost because it is by not believing they are damned.

Mk 16:16; Matthew 28:19-20 is the baptism of the great commission which was commanded, had human administrators, saves and last till the end of the world. None of these thing are true about baptism with the HS, so it cannot be baptism with the HS. Only the Lord baptizes with the HS (Matthew 3:11) therefore if one is lost not having not been baptized with the HS then that is the Lord's fault, the Lord's fault Nicodemus had not been born again.

Mk 16:16 is a compound sentence with 2 subjects 1) salvation 2) condemnation. The verse has 2 requirements for salvation belief AND baptism and one requirement to be lost, unbelief. You are trying to change the requirements for each subject. Christ tied belief to baptism with the conjunction "and" making both necessary and making the two inseparable, meaning if baptism is not essential then neither is belief. If belief is required then baptism is equally required

Also, Jesus gave a logical progression of steps, belief before baptism and baptism before salvation. This makes belief a prerequisite before one can be baptized therefore unbelievers cannot be scripturally baptized. Since unbelievers cannot be baptized, this means when Jesus said "he that believeth not", this phrase already logically includes not being baptized since the unbeliever is unbaptized.

Christ4me said:
You missed the truth. If water baptism was important as essential to salvation, he would never say that.

And what is more, Paul went on to stress that it is the preaching of the cross so that those who hear & believe are saved by God for why he said he was not sent to water baptize but preach the gospel.

God saves those who believe and is not limiting Himself from saving any one by waiting for someone to be water baptized first.

You 1) missed the not-but ellipsis thereby created contradictions and 2) ignored the context when Paul made being baptized in the name of the Lord a requirement to be "of" Christ. (1 Cor 1:13)

Christ4Me · Jan 26, 2022

Ernest T. Bass said:
Mk 16:16; Matthew 28:19-20 is the baptism of the great commission which was commanded, had human administrators, saves and last till the end of the world. None of these thing are true about baptism with the HS, so it cannot be baptism with the HS. Only the Lord baptizes with the HS (Matthew 3:11) therefore if one is lost not having not been baptized with the HS then that is the Lord's fault, the Lord's fault Nicodemus had not been born again.

Matthew 28:19-20 is about what His disciples were to do for newly saved believers which is water baptism & teaching them in being His disciples.

Mk 16:16 is a compound sentence with 2 subjects 1) salvation 2) condemnation. The verse has 2 requirements for salvation belief AND baptism and one requirement to be lost, unbelief. You are trying to change the requirements for each subject. Christ tied belief to baptism with the conjunction "and" making both necessary and making the two inseparable, meaning if baptism is not essential then neither is belief. If belief is required then baptism is equally required

Also, Jesus gave a logical progression of steps, belief before baptism and baptism before salvation. This makes belief a prerequisite before one can be baptized therefore unbelievers cannot be scripturally baptized. Since unbelievers cannot be baptized, this means when Jesus said "he that believeth not", this phrase already logically includes not being baptized since the unbeliever is unbaptized.

When a person believes, they are born again of the Spirit and therefore have been baptized with the Holy Ghost. This truth has been conveyed plainly through out the scripture in the N.T. by Jesus's own words in John 3:7-18 as well as elsewhere as His disciples have also like Paul in Romas 10:8-17

Romans 8:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This is why Paul deferred from water baptism here below for when it comes to the preaching of the cross to believing is how we are saved by Him.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

So Mark 16:16 emphasis on not believing is how one is not saved, and yet the opposite is believing is how one is saved and so it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that is being referred to here when one is born again of the Spirit when believing in Jesus Christ.

Jesus confirmed this application as rightly dividing the word of truth plainly enough below.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You 1) missed the not-but ellipsis thereby created contradictions and 2) ignored the context when Paul made being baptized in the name of the Lord a requirement to be "of" Christ. (1 Cor 1:13)

It is quite the opposite, brother, when you consider the plainness of scripture elsewhere when we see no repeated emphasis on water baptism as essential for salvation for one to be born again of the Spirit by only believing in Him to be saved and to have eternal life.

Jesus did not forget and neither did Paul for why I say you are misreading His words and Paul's words when believing water baptism is essential for salvation when it is essential for newly saved believers to do in taking the first step in being His disciples in following Him as His disciples.

When You Are Born Again of the Spirit

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