Questions for OSAS deniers.

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Enoch111

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Baloney ahh! Ok then, set the record straight....is OSAS a guarantee of heaven regardless of your sins?
1. Christ will straighten you out: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)

2. Peter will straighten you out: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19)

3. Paul will straighten you out: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)
 

Cooper

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1. Christ will straighten you out: And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48)

2. Peter will straighten you out: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (Acts 3:19)

3. Paul will straighten you out: And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)
So Hitler will go to heaven because he was a Christian?
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Cooper

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Was he? Or was he a demon?
You quoted Christ, Peter, and Paul who taught salvation by repentance. This is for the unsaved.

We are told there is no salvation for the person who previously believed, but no longer believes. If there was salvation for the apostate, would a person who no longer believes, want to confess their sins to a God they no longer believe in.

Someone killed in a car crash cannot even do it. What does this say about OSAS?

Do people think their theology through? Convince me.
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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Why continue on with PURE BALONEY? As I said, no one preaches this nonsense.
The inherent implication in the OSAS belief is that a person can willfully violate God's commandments and ignore His decrees as much as they want, and that they'll still receive salvation as if God owes it to them.

You can continue deceiving yourself into thinking the OSAS camp isn't preaching rebellion, but that's exactly what they're doing. The very fact that the apostles had to frequently tell Christians to remain faithful to what they were taught means the deceivers who were teaching OSAS back then were using the same sleight hand of hand tricks that they do today. If the OSAS camp wasn't preaching rebellion against God, His grace wouldn't be used as a pretext to disregard everything in the Bible that inconveniences them.
 
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Cooper

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he wasnt a christian.
His actions clearly identified him as not being a Christian at that time, but he was brought up in the Catholic Church and baptised as a baby and he claimed to be a Christian. Perhaps he believed that once saved he was always saved. You believe that, don't you? I think Catholics believe that, but being Protestant I wouldn't know, but what I do know is that we are known by the way we live our life and that OSAS is the cheat's way that leads to destruction.
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PinSeeker

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Blah blah blah....will these sin prevent you from going to heaven... ...Galatians 5:21 ...
Of course, if the Spirit is not at work bearing His fruit through the person instead, and the person is dwelling in any of these things. But if the person is walking in the Spirit ~ also, in Christ ~ he or she will not be doing such things but rather bearing the fruit of the Spirit, listed in the next two verses (Galatians 5:22-23). This is Paul's abundantly clear point there. Wow.

no condemnation in Christ....so Christ embraces evil...
Of course He doesn't. There's absolutely no connection ~ at all; there's a total disconnect ~ in these two statements. So you're whole take on it just continues to be absolutely ridiculous. It's like you're trying to smell the roses by diving into a muddy pond, or something like that.

Like I said, these suppositions that you continue to make... they're not even worthy of conversation. One might wonder what color the skies in your world are... :)

Grace and peace to you.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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His actions clearly identified him as not being a Christian at that time, but he was brought up in the Catholic Church and baptised as a baby and he claimed to be a Christian. Perhaps he believed that once saved he was always saved. I think Catholics believe that, but being Protestant I wouldn't know.
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the issue here is he wasnt ever saved. OSAS is not a difficult doctrine to understand. Even kids can understand it.
 

Cooper

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the issue here is he wasnt ever saved. OSAS is not a difficult doctrine to understand. Even kids can understand it.
It is easy to understand, but it seems like an open check book to me, and that is not my understanding of an unchanging, righteous and just God who hates wickedness and destroyed thousands in a flood. Sorry, perhaps someone can illuminate it for me.
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PinSeeker

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It is easy to understand, but it seems like an open check book to me, and that is not my understanding of an unchanging, righteous and just God who hates wickedness and destroyed thousands in a flood. Sorry, perhaps someone can illuminate it for me.
Yeah, regarding the "open check book" thing, I guess I can understand that something may seem different than it really is to anybody. But just because it seems so doesn't then mean that it is so. And in the case of the "open check book" thing... it's not so. Okay, try this, Cooper:

Paul addresses these questions in the second chapter of his letter to Titus. He explains that “the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age” (vv. 11–12). In other words, the grace that saves us also changes us. Salvation is a gift of God’s grace that is received through faith. Only by trusting Jesus Christ can anyone be made right with God. This is what we mean when we say that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.

However, as Paul instructed Titus, saving grace is also sanctifying grace. The grace that saves teaches believers to live in ways that are different from the patterns of life that arise out of unbelief. Anyone who thinks that salvation by grace is a license to sin does not have a right understanding of grace. The grace that justifies everyone who trusts Jesus Christ as Lord also trains every believer in holiness. It does this both negatively and positively:

First, saving grace trains Christians to “renounce” (to turn away from, to reject) ungodliness (v. 12). Those who have been reconciled to the holy God will not be satisfied to go on living in immorality. Grace trains Christians not to sign peace treaties with sin, including ungodly actions and inclinations (“worldly passions”).

Second, grace reorients a believer’s desires and actions. Paul uses three adjectives to describe the kind of life that Christians learn to live. In relationship to himself, a follower of Christ is trained to live with self-control. This is part of the fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in Christians (Gal. 5:23) and involves self-imposed discipline and restraint. Though sin does indeed remain in Christians, it no longer reigns in them. Grace trains believers to control themselves. Grace also teaches believers to be “upright” in their relationships with other people. The grace that brings salvation trains us to pursue that kind of lifestyle.

Finally, in relationship to God, Christians are trained by grace to relate rightly to Him by seeking His honor and glory in their lives. This is what it means to be “godly.” It is fitting that those who have been redeemed by Christ should live changed lives because the purpose of His redeeming work on the cross was to “redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works” (Titus 2:14). The grace of God that paid for our sins teaches us to turn away from them as we follow Jesus Christ through faith.​

You see? Maybe not. Either way, grace and peace to you.
 

Cooper

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Yeah, regarding the "open check book" thing, I guess I can understand that something may seem different than it really is to anybody. But just because it seems so doesn't then mean that it is so. And in the case of the "open check book" thing... it's not so. Okay, try this, Cooper:

Paul addresses these questions in the second chapter of his letter to Titus. He explains that “the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age” (vv. 11–12). In other words, the grace that saves us also changes us. Salvation is a gift of God’s grace that is received through faith. Only by trusting Jesus Christ can anyone be made right with God. This is what we mean when we say that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone.

However, as Paul instructed Titus, saving grace is also sanctifying grace. The grace that saves teaches believers to live in ways that are different from the patterns of life that arise out of unbelief. Anyone who thinks that salvation by grace is a license to sin does not have a right understanding of grace. The grace that justifies everyone who trusts Jesus Christ as Lord also trains every believer in holiness. It does this both negatively and positively:

First, saving grace trains Christians to “renounce” (to turn away from, to reject) ungodliness (v. 12). Those who have been reconciled to the holy God will not be satisfied to go on living in immorality. Grace trains Christians not to sign peace treaties with sin, including ungodly actions and inclinations (“worldly passions”).

Second, grace reorients a believer’s desires and actions. Paul uses three adjectives to describe the kind of life that Christians learn to live. In relationship to himself, a follower of Christ is trained to live with self-control. This is part of the fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in Christians (Gal. 5:23) and involves self-imposed discipline and restraint. Though sin does indeed remain in Christians, it no longer reigns in them. Grace trains believers to control themselves. Grace also teaches believers to be “upright” in their relationships with other people. The grace that brings salvation trains us to pursue that kind of lifestyle.

Finally, in relationship to God, Christians are trained by grace to relate rightly to Him by seeking His honor and glory in their lives. This is what it means to be “godly.” It is fitting that those who have been redeemed by Christ should live changed lives because the purpose of His redeeming work on the cross was to “redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works” (Titus 2:14). The grace of God that paid for our sins teaches us to turn away from them as we follow Jesus Christ through faith.​

You see? Maybe not. Either way, grace and peace to you.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but just to say that if we let Jesus into our heart and life, and follow Him all the days of our lives, our growth in grace happens automatically, and we are always saved. I get the feeling people are a little unsure of their salvation and need a prop. If we all keep trusting in Jesus the devil will flee away. Those who do not put their trust in him, are up the creek without a paddle.
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Lifelong_sinner

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I'm not disagreeing with you, but just to say that if we let Jesus into our heart and life, and follow Him all the days of our lives, our growth in grace happens automatically, and we are always saved. I get the feeling people are a little unsure of their salvation and need a prop. If we all keep trusting in Jesus the devil will flee away. Those who do not put their trust in him, are up the creek without a paddle.
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you said “I get the feeling people are a little unsure of their salvation and need a prop.”

so why would a person doubt their salvation? Theres a difference too between doubt and denial. For me, there isnt any doubt, just straight denial. I know im not saved. How? The fact that i havent ever changed. Also, no guilt for any particular sins i commit. I think the prospect of going to hell scares most people, and it should. And to be able to admit that we arent saved, most couldnt do. They lie to themselves to calm their fears.
 

Cooper

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you said “I get the feeling people are a little unsure of their salvation and need a prop.”

so why would a person doubt their salvation? Theres a difference too between doubt and denial. For me, there isnt any doubt, just straight denial. I know im not saved. How? The fact that i havent ever changed. Also, no guilt for any particular sins i commit. I think the prospect of going to hell scares most people, and it should. And to be able to admit that we arent saved, most couldnt do. They lie to themselves to calm their fears.
Of course you are saved if you believe in Jesus Christ and have accepted him into your heart and life. It sounds to me as though you are aware of sin in your life and the sadness you feel is a repentant and contrite heart. Ask him to come into your heart and he will. The growth in grace after salvation is a gradual one, and as we get ever closer to him the things of the earth will grow strangely dim. But as of now, having admitted you are a sinner, and accepting Jesus as your Saviour, you are a child of God. Welcome to the family dear brother.
.​
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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Of course you are saved if you believe in Jesus Christ and have accepted him into your heart and life. It sounds to me as though you are aware of sin in your life and the sadness you feel is a repentant and contrite heart. Ask him to come into your heart and he will. The growth in grace after salvation is a gradual one, and as we get ever closer to him the things of the earth will grow strangely dim. But as of now, having admitted you are a sinner, and accepting Jesus as your Saviour, you are a child of God. Welcome to the family dear brother.
.​

its a shame that it isnt that easy. Belief alone wont get you saved.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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It saved the penitent thief. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.
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you miss the point. The PENITENT thief. That thief knew he was a sinner and said they deserved whatever happened to them. I’m not penitent. I feel no guilt for my sins. I do the same ones, daily. I have for over 30 yrs now.