The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,511
6,378
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What makes you think I'm Catholic?
I wasn't intimating you were Catholic. But your trust and reference to the ECFs is very Catholic, and in particular your claim that the bibles put together under Constantine's sponsorship is somehow a great historical signpost that requires our devotion to it's designers is also very Catholic. As I said, the church did not need those bibles for the first 300 years of it's existence, nor did they need the writings of the ECFs , nor did they need them after 300ad. In fact, a little research would discover that the two remaining ancient copies that many modern bibles are derived, the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, were vestiges of those 50, and are inherently flawed and adulterated. Even in their original form highly suspect. Oldest does not necessarily mean better.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,511
6,378
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So do you keep all the ten commandments?
That's God's business, not yours, or mine. Our work is to place ourselves in a position whereby God can accomplish that.
Our work is to believe it's possible. Otherwise it will never happen. Remember, we are saved by faith... What we believe... Not by our performance.

Do you believe it is possible for you to keep all of God's Commandments?
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Have you ever read this...
KJV Hebrews 5:9
9 And being made perfect, He (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
What do you make of that in the context of the just shall live by faith?
Yes. Why, did you think that meant keeping the ten commandments? I am not a psychic so you need to be clear.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
That's God's business, not yours, or mine. Our work is to place ourselves in a position whereby God can accomplish that.
Our work is to believe it's possible. Otherwise it will never happen. Remember, we are saved by faith... What we believe... Not by our performance.

Do you believe it is possible for you to keep all of God's Commandments?
No. I think they were to show us we couldn't keep them, and that we need Jesus.
 

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Backlit said:
Do you believe it is possible for you to keep all of God's Commandments?
dad said:
No. I think they were to show us we couldn't keep them, and that we need Jesus.
That would be a strange trick for God to play on people, wouldn't it?

Makes the most dramatic scene in the history of the world out of presenting us with the Commandments (Exodus 20), all along knowing we're incapable of obeying them, and always will be.

He sends His Son to obey each and every one of them (John 15:10), allows Paul to obey them all (Acts 21:24), allows a priest and his wife to obey them (Luke 1:5-6) but nobody else, mind you - then leaves us with these final words (Revelation 14:12).

Some people here believe in one very strange God.

Even the dragon is confused. (Revelation 12:17)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: michaelvpardo

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
That would be a strange trick for God to play on people, wouldn't it?
If righteousness came by the law then Christ is dead in vain.

Makes the most dramatic scene in the history of the world out of presenting us with the Commandments (Exodus 20), all along knowing we're incapable of obeying them, and always will be.
That was not the most important or dramatic scene. Jesus dying for us was.

He sends His Son to obey each and every one of them (John 15:10),
Only He could!

allows Paul to obey them all (Acts 21:24)

False.

Acts 21:24
Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

The Jews he was talking to tried to keep the law.

However the next verse shows believers observed no such thing. So if the Jews actually obeyed all the ten commandments all the time, how were believers saved not doing so?

Acts 21:25
As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
, allows a priest and his wife to obey them (Luke 1:5-6)

They were blameless in their effort. However, he was struck dumb for unbelief by the angel. Hardly a sinless saint! Also he was not aware of the depth of what the commandments meant. For example looking at a woman to lust is adultery and hating someone is murder. Since the priest was punished by God, we must assume he was a sinner and deserved it.

but nobody else, mind you - then leaves us with these final words (Revelation 14:12).

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

One command is not to take the mark of the beast. Another command is to love, and etc etc. This doesn't mean they are perfect and sinless.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
8,511
6,378
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
No. I think they were to show us we couldn't keep them, and that we need Jesus.
Aaah. At last you are beginning to see. Absolutely we need Jesus. In our own strength we can do nothing. But in Him, all things are possible. Even obedience to God's ten commandments. Although from your past posts it appears you don't believe this.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Aaah. At last you are beginning to see. Absolutely we need Jesus. In our own strength we can do nothing. But in Him, all things are possible. Even obedience to God's ten commandments. Although from your past posts it appears you don't believe this.
I know we can try. Try. Try. But not even Paul counted himself to have attained. Naturally with Him inside us we will try to do what He wants. My issue is with those that seem to claim that we must obey all the commandments if we are saved or else we are not really saved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brakelite

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I know we can try. Try. Try. But not even Paul counted himself to have attained. Naturally with Him inside us we will try to do what He wants. My issue is with those that seem to claim that we must obey all the commandments if we are saved or else we are not really saved.
Can you quote even one person here claiming that?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
dad said:
If righteousness came by the law then Christ is dead in vain.
It doesn't.
GEN2REV said:
(God) Makes the most dramatic scene in the history of the world out of presenting us with the Commandments (Exodus 20) ...
dad said:
That was not the most important or dramatic scene. Jesus dying for us was.
Didn't claim it was the most important. Christ's Crucifixion has that locked. The presenation of the Commandments blows all other dramatic events in history outta the water by a long shot. Second only to those things yet to come in the final day Wrath of God; The Day of the Lord will make the Mt. Sinai event pale in comparison.
GEN2REV said:
He sends His Son to obey each and every one of them (John 15:10),
dad said:
Only He could!
Only His Spirit can and that's who lives inside those who strive to obey His Commandments. His Spirit teaches and enables us to obey.
GEN2REV said:
Paul ... (obeyed) ... them all (Acts 21:24)
dad said:
Can't deny scripture.
Acts 21:24 "... thou thyself also walkest orderly and keepeth the law."
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
dad said:
This doesn't mean they are perfect and sinless.
Another false claim. Nobody said that. The FACT is that it states they "keep the Commandments of God."

That be the 10 Commandments.
 
Last edited:

Desire Of All Nations

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2021
748
408
63
Troy
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. I think they were to show us we couldn't keep them, and that we need Jesus.
If that was the case, the explain why Jesus placed the responsibility of law-keeping squarely on His followers in Matt. 5:19-20:

Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus was pretty clear that He didn't come to replace the obligation of law-keeping. He said "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees". What He clearly didn't say was "if you believe in My existence, My righteousness would help you exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees."
I know we can try. Try. Try. But not even Paul counted himself to have attained. Naturally with Him inside us we will try to do what He wants. My issue is with those that seem to claim that we must obey all the commandments if we are saved or else we are not really saved.
You have an issue with the Bible then, since that is exactly what it teaches in Matt. 19:17, 1 Jhn 2:3-5, and Rom. 8:7-11

"So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments'.”

"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him."

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."


Paul was very clear about how this works in Rom. 8:7-11: if you don't live by the commandments, it's a sure sign that you don't have the Holy Spirit. And if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you are not guaranteed eternal life because it's the only way God can transform someone's mortal body into an immortal Spirit body. Those are the rules.
 
Last edited:

GEN2REV

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2021
3,850
1,436
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If that was the case, the explain why Jesus placed the responsibility of law-keeping squarely on His followers in Matt. 5:19-20:

Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus was pretty clear that He didn't come to replace the obligation of law-keeping. He said "unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees". What He clearly didn't say was "if you believe in My existence, My righteousness would help you exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees."
You have an issue with the Bible then, since that is exactly what it teaches in Matt. 19:17. 1 Jhn 2:3-5, and Rom. 8:7-11

"So He said to him, 'Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments'.”

"Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him."

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."


Paul was very clear about how this works in Rom. 8:7-11: if you don't live by the commandments, it's a sure sign that you don't have the Holy Spirit. And if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you are not guaranteed eternal life because it's the only way God can transform someone's mortal body into an immortal Spirit body. Those are the rules.
Very nice.

Thank you for your contribution, DOAN.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarneyFife

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
It doesn't.

Didn't claim it was the most important. Christ's Crucifixion has that locked. The presenation of the Commandments blows all other dramatic events in history outta the water by a long shot. Second only to those things yet to come in the final day Wrath of God; The Day of the Lord will make the Mt. Sinai event pale in comparison.
No. The heart of the gospel is that it was all leading to Jesus. Setting the captives free in Egypt was just a step along the way. We will disagree there.
Only His Spirit can and that's who lives inside those who strive to obey His Commandments. His Spirit teaches and enables us to obey.
So if people sin against others and ask forgiveness as Jesus told us to do, where does that leave them? Is God in those sinners? If you made your wife cry with harsh words, where would that leave you?
Can't deny scripture.
Acts 21:24 "... thou thyself also walkest orderly and keepeth the law."
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
Another false claim. Nobody said that. The FACT is that it states they "keep the Commandments of God."

That be the 10 Commandments.
That does not say that those folks kept all the law. In believing in Jesus and doing HIS commandments they are keeping His commandments. If they do not keep all the old laws they are still keeping the commandments of God. His commandment is this.

John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you

"And so here: the token, that we have the knowledge of Him, is present, if , posito that) we keep (pres., as a habit, from time to time, ἐντολαί being necessarily prescriptions regarding circumstances as they arise) His commandments (first as to the expression. St. John never uses the word νόμος for the rule of Christian obedience: this word is reserved for the Mosaic law, John 1:17 ; John 1:46 , and in all, fifteen times in the Gospel: but almost always ἐντολαί , sometimes λόγος θεοῦ or χριστοῦ , John 8:51 f., John 14:23 f., John 17:6 , our 1 John 2:5 . And as a verb he always uses τηρεῖν , very seldom ποιεῖν (only in the two controverted places, ch. 1 John 5:4 , Rev 22:14 v. r.: ch. 1Jn 1:6 , 1Jn 2:17 are not cases in point). τηρεῖν keeps its peculiar meaning of watching , guarding as some precious thing, “observing to keep.” Next, whose commandments? The older expositors for the most part refer αὐτόν , αὐτοῦ , αὐτῷ , 1 John 2:3-6 , to Christ: so Aug [15] , Episcop., Grot., Luther, Seb.-Schmidt, Calov., Wolf, Lange, Bengel, Sander, Neander. Socinus inclines to this view, but doubtfully; Erasmus understands αὐτός 1 John 2:3-4 , of God, αὐτός and ἐκεῖνος 1 John 2:5-6 , of Christ."
1 John 2 - Alford's Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

In this commentary there seems to the claim that often when we see the commandments it refers to those of Christ.

Also this one (and these were the first 2 I looked at)

"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you,.... Some understand this of faith, which this apostle calls a commandment, 1 John 3:23; but it rather intends the commandment of love, especially to the brethren, of which the apostle says the same things as here in his second epistle, 1 John 2:5; and this sense agrees both with what goes before and follows after, and is a considerable branch of the commandments of Christ to be kept, and of walking as he walked; and the word "brethren", prefixed to this account, may direct to, and strengthen this sense, though the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions read, "beloved"; and so the Alexandrian copy, and others: and this commandment is said to be not a new one,

-The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning; or this ancient law of love is contained in, and enforced by that word or doctrine which was delivered from the beginning of time; and which these saints had heard of, concerning the seed of the woman's bruising the serpent's head, which includes the work of redemption and salvation by Christ, atonement by his sacrifice, forgiveness of sin through his blood, and justification by his righteousness, than which nothing can more powerfully engage to love God, and Christ, and one another; and which is also strongly encouraged by the word of God and Gospel of Christ, which they had heard, and had a spiritual and saving knowledge of, from the time they were effectually called by the grace of God:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you,.... Which is the same with the former, considered in different respects. The command of brotherly love is a new one; that is, it is an excellent one, as a new name is an excellent name, and a new song is an excellent one; it is renewed by Christ under the Gospel dispensation; it is newly explained by him, and purged from the false glosses of the Scribes and Pharisees; see Matthew 5:43; and enforced by him with a new argument, and by a new example of his own, even his own love to his people; and which is observed by them in a new manner, they being made new creatures; and this law being anew written in their hearts, under the renewing work of the Spirit of God, as a branch of the new covenant of grace; see John 13:34. The Jews c expect תורה חדשה, "a new law" to be given them by the bands of the Messiah; and a new one he has given, even the new commandment of love, and which is the fulfilling of the law."

1 John 2 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

So yes, when we see some trying to make obeying His commandments mean obeying rituals of Sabbath day, and the laws of Moses, those who know Him do not share their opinion.

In that same chapter John spells it out, lest there be any doubt.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
You've already said this Enoch.
It doesn't explain how something spiritual is moral. A wedding ceremony is spiritual in nature. Is it moral? Again...worship is a Ceremonial Law from the O.T. It is not, IMHO, a Moral Law. Let me check chabad....
Jewish Chabad cannot help you with Christian questions and answers. That which is spiritual transcends that which is moral. Morality pertains to right or wrong. Spirituality pertains to an INTERNAL relationship with God and Christ. So how can worship be called "ceremonial", which only pertains to EXTERNAL observances?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Whoever of the Christian faith who began to set aside Sunday as a holy day I am sure did so having the best intentions.
Since CHRIST HIMSELF set aside the first day of the week (forget the word "Sunday" since it is not in the Bible) as the Lord's Day, you cannot have any higher authority than that. Ellen G. White created a trap and you got entrapped.

Did you ever ask yourself why the Resurrected Savior waited for eight days in order to show Himself to doubting Thomas? Chew on that for a while.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I know we can try. Try. Try. But not even Paul counted himself to have attained. Naturally with Him inside us we will try to do what He wants. My issue is with those that seem to claim that we must obey all the commandments if we are saved or else we are not really saved.
The ten commandments aren't impossible to keep, but Christ raised the standard eg: Looking at another man's wife in lust is as bad as adultery when it comes to purity. I'm not saying that I'm innocent of breaking the big 10. If I'd lived in Israel a couple thousand years ago, I'd likely been stoned to death by the age of 17, but I was raised as a Roman Catholic, not as a Hebrew under the law of Moses.

Training in righteousness makes a difference. Capital punishment does too. If your parents can drag you out to the city gate, declare you a rebellious son, and have You stoned to death, you're going to think twice about that rebellion.
 

dad

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2020
3,186
401
83
64
private
normanbruleart.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The ten commandments aren't impossible to keep, but Christ raised the standard eg: Looking at another man's wife in lust is as bad as adultery when it comes to purity. I'm not saying that I'm innocent of breaking the big 10. If I'd lived in Israel a couple thousand years ago, I'd likely been stoned to death by the age of 17, but I was raised as a Roman Catholic, not as a Hebrew under the law of Moses.

Training in righteousness makes a difference. Capital punishment does too. If your parents can drag you out to the city gate, declare you a rebellious son, and have You stoned to death, you're going to think twice about that rebellion.
So He just explained what it would really mean to keep the ten commandments. I do not think anyone can keep them all the time. We can agree to disagree
 
Status
Not open for further replies.