Homosexuality

According to "God".

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Delusional delirium to think that you are god.

I believe that those who want so fervantly to believe that homosexuality is learned or willful do so to justify their prejudice and their hostility toward gays.

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Of course you do as it enables you to ignore the truth.

There are no former homosexuals because they can not change their sexual orientation

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But through the loving and redemptive power of Jesus Christ, we can all find salvation from sin. So can homosexuals. "Gayness" is not an "immutable" or unchangeable condition as homosexual apologists would have you believe. People can find freedom from homosexual behaviours and even from same-sex attractions. It's not easy, but untold thousands of former homosexuals have done it.

Just one of many comments that the gay agenda tries to ignore with cover up lies.

I read recently that a homosexual propagandist said that to say no one can stop being homosexual is totally ridiculous. It is obvious that some do, so saying that no one can is baloney.

I shall have to tell those who came through my support group that gave up their homosexuality that they have to regain it as their change of life is not sanctioned by the pink mafia.

Well, we then just have a difference of opinion and beliefs.

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That happens because you make the bible fit your beliefs instead of making your beliefs fit the bible.

KCKID said:

What is 'natural', SIM? Are you the epitome of 'naturalness'? Are you someone who we should all aspire to be like? This seems to be what you're saying. I've got news for you. I, for one, don't want to be like you. I want to be like me. A quick inner test each of us can take is to ask how effortless our lives feel. The closer to effortless our lives, the closer we are to being natural. Being natural is simply being the 'real' you, no masks, no acts, no false pretences. Natural is to reflect true self, to be at ease and assured, to live true to what naturally resonates within you to be. No texts from a book - even one purported to be divine - can possibly define the 'natural' you. As long as your intent is not to harm anyone else or yourself, hold your head up and be proud to be the natural you!


Oh no, most certainly not! Most Christians are compelled by their religious doctrine to be non-objective. I believe that those who want so fervantly to believe that homosexuality is learned or willful do so to justify their prejudice and their hostility toward gays. No, SIM, just stick to hurling words of condemnation to those you personally don't like . . .


Science is an on-going process. That no substantiating evidence has been found yet to determine why a homosexual is a homosexual does not mean that it will not provide evidence some time in the future. The FACTS are, however, that homosexuals DO exist. FURTHERMORE, even if science DID provide evidence that homosexuality is an inborn trait you would still have the same mindset that you do now. Correct? So, why do you pretend to want evidence?


I frankly don't care what you believe the Bible to say. I believe that you've got the whole Gospel message backward. And, I think I already defined (above) fairly well what 'natural' is to a human being. Some say quite adamantly that believing in an entity that one cannot see, an entity not tangible, an entity that only a book identifies as being real is not exactly 'natural' for a professed intelligent adult to believe in. And, while you're pretending to look for scientific proof that homosexuality is an inborn trait, some could just as well ask you to show scientific evidence that God actually exists. How do you think you'd go?

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Even something definitively synthetic is technically natural. Murder and bestiality could be argued as 'natural'. In fact, anything could be argued the same. You are just arguing vain semantics.

There is a kosher natural order that God wills, and exist naturally in all of us. Your own sins and fallen nature is what makes you deviant of that nature, it is not involuntary. Sexual orientation is a perfect pallete to show what and what isn't kosher. Is your body designed to have intercourse with the same sex? Can you have children by the same sex?

The answer is no. God did not make you to be a homosexual. Being heterosexual is part of God's natural law. The severity of which God detests homosexuality is found in the book of Leviticus, where sleeping with the same sex was punishable by being beaten to death with stones. The sin of homosexuality surpassed that of rape in Leviticus. It is the most abominable sexual sin in the Bible right next to bestiality which was also punished in the same exact way. So when it comes down to it, supporting homosexuality is proportionate to supporting bestiality.

Science has no evidence, and yet in the secular world, it is unanimously assumed to be an inborn trait. That is because the world is a big ball of nonsense just like it always has been. The Bible tells you of this, and here you are riding the Beast with a Bible in your hand *poetic justice 101*.

JackSafari said:

As well as everyone knows, nobody agrees 100% on the interpretation of The Bible, thus its just an endless and circular debate which has been going on for thousands of years, and simply means people disagree on what God intends, likes\dislike, etc. Debating The Scriptures do not interest me, so I do not engage in them. It does not mean I concede that other's interpretation to be universally valid, I simply agree that it their interpretation.

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I spent literally years on Christian forums during my active tenure with the Seventh-day Adventist Church debating issues with nonSDAs ...issues such as the Sabbath vs Sunday, the state of the dead, i.e. what happens when one dies, and hell-fire vs annihilation. I really believed what I was promoting at the time and I could - and still can - present scriptures to back them up. I'm sure that no Sunday-worshipping Christian suddenly converted to Sabbath-keeping, or changed their belief that the dead don't go immediately to heaven or hell at death but are sleeping in their graves until the Second Coming of Jesus, or did a turn-around on their belief that hell is no more than 'the grave' and that the unrighteous dead will not be tormented forever and ever but annihilated. And yet I would argue these points with people who had no intention of changing their long-held beliefs about these things, even though the scriptures agreed with me. As you say, it was an endless and circular debate that went on and on and on to no one's benefit.

SDAs have their interpretation of the scriptures - and, I admit, most of them ARE scripturally sound - but I eventually learned that doctrine is not what the Gospel is all about. And, for me, it's similarly so with this topic. The Old Testament contains so many commands, instructions and religious rituals that no one could possibly keep even if they tried to, it contains scores of do's and don'ts plus one abomination after another that are totally ignored by Christians EXCEPT for the 'man lying' abomination in Leviticus, etc. etc. There is no common ground agreed upon as to whether Christians are meant to keep the OT ordinances, religious festivals, the Big Ten or/and the entire 600-odd commandments ...no one seems to know which way is up when it comes to Bible obedience. Instead Christians often rely on what they learn from their particular Church. If my pastor says that this is this and that is that then, by golly, that's what "I" believe. One cannot believe EVERYTHING the Bible says without running into many, many inconsistencies. I'll just give several of MANY similar scriptures as an example of what I'm talking about and then I'll finish.

Leviticus 20:9. If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Leviticus 20:10. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife - with the wife of his neighbor - both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:16. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads (note: this also includes the innocent animal who is also being held responsible for an act that has not occurred).

Leviticus 20:13. If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy 22:20-21. If a man marries a woman and discovers that she was not a virgin on their wedding night and the charge is proven to be true, she should be stoned (to death) by the men of the city.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21. If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his mother and his father . . .then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.

As said, there are many similar scriptures which are almost laughable - certainly irrelevant - to we of today. And yet, Leviticus 20:13 is the only such scripture that is cherry picked by Christians from all of the rest and USED SPECIFICALLY WITH WHICH TO CONDEMN PRESENT-DAY HOMOSEXUALITY. Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?

KCKID, I am curious what are some explanations given that allow well intended Christians to over look these harsh punishments and contradictions?

But, yeah those are examples of why I have chosen to be a Christian based on principles of acceptance, and I seek to know God through experiencing life. One example is seeing a mother forgive a man who who killed her child. Not just words of forgiveness, but truly letting go of all hate and revenge she felt. WOW!

Part of my thinking is that The Bible has some unstated purposes, part of which is to challenge people to think for themselves and find God in the world (because the debate never ends), not simply accept what they are told as being the truth, especially when life experience suggests something different\better. I do have unquestionable faith that God's truth always prevails and it revealed through experiencing life. On this topic of homosexuality, I have no concerns or questions about God's acceptance of everyone's sexual orientation.

There is high probability that in the coming years\decades, medical search will discover the generic factors that determine a person sexual orientation and they will see specific patterns that differ between those who are primary heterosexual and those who are homosexual. At that point, it will be even more evident that sexual orientation is something that is beyond the control of the individual, just like many other genetic factors inherent in each person.

Hi Jack,

You're still not understanding that God is very willing to welcome ex-homosexuals into His kingdom, because He makes it possible for them to be delivered and healed. Like marksman, I have heard with my own ears testimony from one who was restored to heterosexual orientation after having been brought up with homosexuality as a normal outcome of being male.

Your comment

Debating The Scriptures do not interest me, so I do not engage in them.

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could be an oversight on your part, because you seem not to be taking into account many factors which matter to God, who in the end will be the only One to determine whom He knew during their life on this earth.

It is seriously appealing to the flesh to leave God's rationale out of your thinking, but it will do your spirit no good at all.



Hi Rex,

If they didn't seem so ignorant of the true gospel, I'd be more ready to stop announcing it, but I'm grateful for your 'eye' over the present scenario, and that you're so clear about how to deal with it, Biblically.

Perhaps there is a time for walking away, but I am not sure how one judges when that is, as there are probably many other readers, and some of them have followed this thread from its beginning.

They need to be reminded God is more than able to save them out of all sin and confusion.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Only those who come 'through Him', will be saved. There is no other Saviour than Jesus Christ. Amen.

dragonfly said:

.

It is seriously appealing to the flesh to leave God's rationale out of your thinking, but it will do your spirit no good at all.
.

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I understand this works for you, but it does not for me. And I understand from your perspective there is no room for any other options than what is written; very black and white.

What you are suggesting is unquestionable literal acceptance of every word that is in The Bible. If for example, as KCKID listed scriptures, we should put people to death for homosexual acts and well as heterosexual adultery. I assume you would be in favor of laws that put people to death because they have violate scriptures where is it clearly stated that death is the what God expects. However, I do suspect there are religious explanations why today Christians are not demanding laws that put to death people for homosexuality & adultry. What I accept is that common sense prevails and what may have been valid in the past, is no longer valid.

Debating The Scriptures do not interest me, so I do not engage in them.

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Bible, tradition, apostolic teaching. It doesn't matter what church or denomination you follow, You have to engage at least one of these things for your statements to have even any relative speck of significance to Christian discussion.

All I'm saying is, all you are doing is stating what you beleive, and telling others they are wrong.

JackSafari said:

As well as everyone knows, nobody agrees 100% on the interpretation of The Bible, thus its just an endless and circular debate which has been going on for thousands of years, and simply means people disagree on what God intends, likes\dislike, etc. Debating The Scriptures do not interest me, so I do not engage in them. It does not mean I concede that other's interpretation to be universally valid, I simply agree that it their interpretation.

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It's true, much scripture can be up for interpretation...especially if one does not read it properly in light of all other scripture.

But on the topic of sexual immorality it is overwhelmingly clear. It is a warning that is repeated again, and again and again.


13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. (Romans 13:13, ESV)

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. (1 Corinthians 5:1, ESV)


11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who
bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or
greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat
with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:11, ESV)


12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things
are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. (1 Corinthians 6:12-13, ESV)


18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18, ESV)


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, (Galatians 5:19, ESV)

And this is only a few of the many mentions of sexual immorality. In Revelations alone it is mentioned 10 times.
"But"! you say, "that doesn't mean homosexuality!" Actually, it does. Let's look closer.


7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7, ESV)

What was the particular sexual sin in these cities?

20 Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.” (Genesis 18:20-21, ESV)


4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young
and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” 6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:4-8, ESV)

The men were homosexuals and gang rapists. Now...you may want to say that it's the raping that is the sexual immorality, but the bible makes this plain as well.

10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (1 Timothy 1:10, ESV)


9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (1 Corinthians 6:9, ESV)

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. (Romans 1:26-28, ESV)

Now, just in case you're one of these people who declare that when the bible says "homosexual" it doesn't actually mean "homosexual"...although the particular wording used does leave one wondering how people actually justify this sad sort of logic....let's have a look at the meaning of the word in Greek.

Homosexual, Strong Number 733
arsenokoites: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Original Word: ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ
Short Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity; a sodomite, pederast.

Even the Greek word is revealing. Arsenokoites....it sounds exactly what it is.
There is no doubt, and no room for interpretation. Homosexuality is sexual immorality, which is a sin. So please yourself with dismissal that you 'read the bible differently' to me, and that I'm wrong...but the bible is very, very, very clear on this subject, and it is you, my friend, who is mistaken.

JackSafari said:

I understand this works for you, but it does not for me. And I understand from your perspective there is no room for any other options than what is written; very black and white.

What you are suggesting is unquestionable literal acceptance of every word that is in The Bible. If for example, as KCKID listed scriptures, we should put people to death for homosexual acts and well as heterosexual adultery. I assume you would be in favor of laws that put people to death because they have violate scriptures where is it clearly stated that death is the what God expects. However, I do suspect there are religious explanations why today Christians are not demanding laws that put to death people for homosexuality & adultry. What I accept is that common sense prevails and what may have been valid in the past, is no longer valid.

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I haven't read this thread, and I don't intend to. But I am curious about something. GOD has obviously declared homosexuality to be sin, like adultery and fornication. What makes you think GOD now has exempted homosexuality from judgment, but not these others?

Rach said:

Homosexual, Strong Number 733
arsenokoites: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Original Word: ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ
Short Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity; a sodomite, pederast.

Even the Greek word is revealing. Arsenokoites....it sounds exactly what it is.

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I think it's a combination of two Greek words that mean anus and driving the wrong way on a one-way street.
No, seriously it is a combination of two Greek words meaning male and bed.

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

I haven't read this thread, and I don't intend to. But I am curious about something. GOD has obviously declared homosexuality to be sin, like adultery and fornication. What makes you think GOD now has exempted homosexuality from judgment, but not these others?
.

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Its only a sin for those who who choose to believe it is, and that is their choice. It is not a belief or choice that should be forced upon others in the form of laws or discrimination.

JackSafari said:

Its only a sin for those who who choose to believe it is, and that is their choice. It is not a belief or choice that should be forced upon others in the form of laws or discrimination.

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But it is GOD"s law according to his revealed will. If you choose not not to live by GOD's laws that is your choice. Likewise, if those who choose to live by GOD's laws exclude from their fellowship people like yourself who don't, then they are certainly justified and within their rights, and you are free to do as you please.

dragonfly said:

Hi Rex,

If they didn't seem so ignorant of the true gospel, I'd be more ready to stop announcing it, but I'm grateful for your 'eye' over the present scenario, and that you're so clear about how to deal with it, Biblically.

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I quite sure you can justify your way around anything you like and even say you don't know or understand exactly when to do as Jesus, Paul and John said. The simple fact is they will never move forward until they come to grips with homosexuality is a sin. Look at the poll above both their names are on "it not a sin"

Rex said:

You mean Rev 22:10-12

Here's what Jesus said Matthew 10:14-16
And even Paul knew when to shake the dust off and move on Acts 18:4-6

You do as you like, but it's very clear to me that these two are pushing a new gospel that is homo friendly, end of story.


56 pages and counting

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Because of the tread title and the poll this thread has been nothing but an "magnet" invitation for pro homosexuals to argue its NOT A SIN.
Why not just deal with the root cause "fruit" of this thread and the difference of opinion and simply reduce it to.

yes it is a sin
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not

Because that's what 57 pages amounts to. .......... ...yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not

Please don't bother replying to me with another lame biblical excuse to continue, just do as you please.
Rev 22:10-12


Here's what Jesus said Matthew 10:14-16

And even Paul knew when to shake the dust off and move on Acts 18:4-6

JackSafari said:

Its only a sin for those who who choose to believe it is, and that is their choice. It is not a belief or choice that should be forced upon others in the form of laws or discrimination.

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Yeah see....here's the problem you've been having. You leave out God. Completely. And the above abbreviation of your beliefs has just highlighted that. You are simple putting it down to a "it's true or not true for the people involved"...."if it feels good, do it"....kind of mentality, while all the time forgetting that it's not up to us....to decide if it's a sin, or if it's okay. The point people here are trying to make is that it's NOT UP TO US...people have nothing to do with it, at all. We're not the ones saying it's a sin....God is. Go ahead and tell God he got it wrong....but I don't even want to be a fly on the wall for that one.

Its only a sin for those who who choose to believe it is, and that is their choice. It is not a belief or choice that should be forced upon others in the form of laws or discrimination.

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Have you ever considered that homoseuxlaity does harm? a few percent of the population make oup 60% of all AIDS infections. Do you not see something erong with that? How about the fact that there is literally no evidence that homosexuality is an inborn trait even though secular society unanimously assumes it is- don't you find that suspicious?

To be honest, I don't think you've fully explored the object of homosexuality. You are routinely naive on this subject, Homosexuality and bestiality held the same exact punishment. They are equally deviant. Do you spport bestiality as well?

The context in the Bible is clear. Ther eis no 'other interpretation'. With this subject, there is a right one, and there is a wrong one, and you wrong. Mortally wrong.

Rach said:

It's true, much scripture can be up for interpretation...especially if one does not read it properly in light of all other scripture.

But on the topic of sexual immorality it is overwhelmingly clear. It is a warning that is repeated again, and again and again.


13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. (Romans 13:13, ESV)

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. (1 Corinthians 5:1, ESV)

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Why is it assumed that sexual immorality automatically refers to homosexuality? The texts above give no mention of homosexuality and yet they are presented as if they do. What do orgies and drunkenness and quarreling and jealousy have to do AT ALL with the topic?

Rach said:

11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who
bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or
greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat
with such a one. (1 Corinthians 5:11, ESV)


12 “All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things
are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”—and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. (1 Corinthians 6:12-13, ESV)


18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18, ESV)


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, (Galatians 5:19, ESV)

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Again, no mention above of homosexuality at all but presented as though it does. It's also wrongly and deceptively presupposed that a homosexual is an immoral person and so these texts are presented in such a way as to highlight this, i.e. homosexual=immorality. This post cannot go unaddressed even though I said previously that I wouldn't pursue this topic any further with the author.

Rach said:

And this is only a few of the many mentions of sexual immorality. In Revelations alone it is mentioned 10 times.
"But"! you say, "that doesn't mean homosexuality!" Actually, it does. Let's look closer.


7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. (Jude 1:7, ESV)

What was the particular sexual sin in these cities?

20 Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, 21 I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.” (Genesis 18:20-21, ESV)


4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young
and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” 6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, 7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. 8 Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” (Genesis 19:4-8, ESV)

The men were homosexuals and gang rapists. Now...you may want to say that it's the raping that is the sexual immorality, but the bible makes this plain as well.

10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (1 Timothy 1:10, ESV)

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VERY deceptive, Rach. The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah had little or nothing to do with homosexuality. I don't want to spend too much time right now on this particular story (too lengthy) except to say that homosexuality is NEVER mentioned ANYWHERE with regard to the destruction of S&G.

As for 1 Timothy 1:10 ...the ESV and the NIV (and probably others) have corrupted the original interpretation of that text which should read, according to the KJV: For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine. Please note that 'men who practice homosexuality' is NOWHERE mentioned in the KJV. Many of the recent compilations of the scriptures are specifically anti-gay and this is reflected in their interpretation. And yet, we keep hearing from the anti-gay brigade that homosexuals and their supporters are the ones that are twisting scripture!

Rach said:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (1 Corinthians 6:9, ESV)

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. (Romans 1:26-28, ESV)

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One more time with the KJV as opposed to the ESV: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, no idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind ...

Again, deception with regard to, 1. no such mention with regard to 'men who practice homosexuality' and, 2. the list given (mostly ambiguous because of the unfamiliar terminology used) is deceptively used to associate homosexuality with a whole slew of 'sins'.

Rach said:

Now, just in case you're one of these people who declare that when the bible says "homosexual" it doesn't actually mean "homosexual"...although the particular wording used does leave one wondering how people actually justify this sad sort of logic....let's have a look at the meaning of the word in Greek.

Homosexual, Strong Number 733
arsenokoites: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Original Word: ἀρσενοκοίτης, ου, ὁ
Short Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity
Definition: a male engaging in same-gender sexual activity; a sodomite, pederast.

Even the Greek word is revealing. Arsenokoites....it sounds exactly what it is.
There is no doubt, and no room for interpretation. Homosexuality is sexual immorality, which is a sin. So please yourself with dismissal that you 'read the bible differently' to me, and that I'm wrong...but the bible is very, very, very clear on this subject, and it is you, my friend, who is mistaken.

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The term 'arsenokoites' is an ambiguous word that appears to have been made up by Paul. It is a word that could mean homosexuality but is more commonly believed by scholars to reference homosexual rape or/and pederasty. Fact: Just because Strong's Concordance might give a definition of an ambiguous word does not necessarily make it so. NO ONE - including Strong's - appears to know precisely what 'arsenokoites' means so to use it as a definitive term to condemn homosexuality is intentionally misleading. As for stating with such authority that 'there is no room for interpretation' and that the Bible is very, very, very clear that homosexuality per se is sexually immoral and therefore a sin' that is not so. Other Bible-believing Churches that welcome homosexuals in their congregation AS EQUALS are just as very, very, very clear that Jesus would not condemn anyone based on their sexual orientation. I realize that you probably wouldn't endorse their brand of 'Christianity' but even those who are not homosexuals or 'homosexual supporters' are quite adamant that the so-called 'clobber scriptures' are misinterpretations of the accurate accounts based on what was going on within and without the early Church at the time of writing. For the militant anti-gay, those scriptures say what they believe them to say and NOTHING will change that.

Its only a sin for those who who choose to believe it is

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This statement is the final proof that you have no idea how to define 'sin'.

It's just as well that God doesn't define sin this way, or it would have been impossible for him to find a Saviour for mankind, for if God doesn't know what sin is, because it depends on what people believe it is, however could He have a hope of fixing it?

KCKID said:

The term 'arsenokoites' is an ambiguous word that appears to have been made up by Paul. It is a word that could mean homosexuality but is more commonly believed by scholars to reference homosexual rape or/and pederasty. Fact: Just because Strong's Concordance might give a definition of an ambiguous word does not necessarily make it so. NO ONE - including Strong's - appears to know precisely what 'arsenokoites' means so to use it as a definitive term to condemn homosexuality is intentionally misleading. As for stating with such authority that 'there is no room for interpretation' and that the Bible is very, very, very clear that homosexuality per se is sexually immoral and therefore a sin' that is not so. Other Bible-believing Churches that welcome homosexuals in their congregation AS EQUALS are just as very, very, very clear that Jesus would not condemn anyone based on their sexual orientation. I realize that you probably wouldn't endorse their brand of 'Christianity' but even those who are not homosexuals or 'homosexual supporters' are quite adamant that the so-called 'clobber scriptures' are misinterpretations of the accurate accounts based on what was going on within and without the early Church at the time of writing. For the militant anti-gay, those scriptures say what they believe them to say and NOTHING will change that.

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There are church people just as deceived as you are, so no wonder they accept your lifestyle.

I am curious about something. GOD has obviously declared homosexuality to be sin, like adultery and fornication. What makes you think GOD now has exempted homosexuality from judgment, but not these others?

This thread simply needs to be locked
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not

Because of the tread title and the poll this thread has been nothing but an "magnet" invitation for pro homosexuals to argue its NOT A SIN.

Why not just deal with the root cause "fruit" of this thread and the difference of opinion and simply reduce it to.

yes it is a sin
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not
yes it is
no its not

Because that's what 57 pages amounts to. .......... ...yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not, yes it is, no its not

Rex said:

This thread simply needs to be locked

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I vote yay (locked, that is)