Scriptural proof that Jesus was NOT "fully God"

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Templar81

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
854
17
0
UK
How many of these men were born again?
How many of these men had the baptism with the Holy Spirit?
How many of these men were being led by the Holy Spirit?

All of them
All of them

ALL OF THEM

Churches that don't have creeds are on a dangerous path becuse their belief is unstrcutred and unfocussed adn they question things that should be seen as a given.. This is what you get if you rely souley on scripture.

Oh and BTW the Holy Spirit did not stop working when the Bible was put together. The Holy Spirit has worked through the CHurch millitant for the last 2000 years and still is now.

I think for my self too but I don't go out of the established parametres.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
This is what you get if you rely souley on scripture.
Oh and BTW the Holy Spirit did not stop working when the Bible was put together.
The Holy Spirit has worked through the CHurch millitant for the last 2000 years and still is now
.
I believe in relying solely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of Scripture.
I believe the church did not rely much on the Holy Spirit until about 100 years ago.
This is when the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement began.

Look at the NT church ... the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12) and the 5 ministerial offices (Eph 4:11-14)
were intended only for those having the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

God brought forth the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement to prepare for the last days:
Joel 2:28-29
And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions.
And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
 

religusnut

New Member
Oct 19, 2010
242
10
0
Here we see still one more example of a human being that is probably well educated but has NO clue what the Bible is saying. Unless the Holy Spirit shows it to you it will NEVER make sense to you.


I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened that you might come to know the hope of your calling.


People who make such ignorant posts as the opening one of this thread are the reason that Christianity is in such a mess especially in the US.
 

Templar81

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
854
17
0
UK
yeah right, like the Pentecostals have a monoply on the Holy Spirit. They all fake speaking in toongues and push onenanother over. I've heard about people who would speak in tongues the same time every Sunday morning and you could set your watch by them.

Make no mistake, the Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been with the church millitant and that includes; sacramentals, evangelicals, contemplatives and even charismatics to a point (when they're not too busy faking it).

I'm not downplaying the Bible but there is more to Christianity than just scripture. If you disregard the Creeds, which aby the way are excellent forms of catechesis, thenyou run the risk of going into heretical territory.
 

Dulzurra

New Member
Jun 5, 2011
15
0
0
Excuse me? Have we met? I didn't make the rules, I just follow them. As far as sola scriptura is concerned, it relies on a Church counsel. So before you talk down to me, get your facts straight.

Ok Aspen, I did not imply that you made the rules that you adhere too. In your previous post you conspicuously identified that you follow a commonly accepted mainstream christian doctrine. I stated "you uphold men's ludicrous doctrinal beliefs & not God's Word". Owing to the fact that you adhere to it you validate supporting it, therefore you are placing me outside your faith's version of christianity. It is wise to ask first to avoid making an erroneous conclusion. Yes I agree you should "get your facts straight", nor was it my intention to talk down to you but to try & open your mind.

The 'church counsel' that formulated the "key doctrine" did not follow Sola Scriptura, it more closely resembles that of the Antichrist Doctrine & Prima Luther (hypocrite M.L. who did not abide by his S S movement - the bible as the only authority, but his own opinions). M.L. intentionally added & mistranslated many biblical scriptures to vindicate his unbiblical beliefs. And one of his opinions was that "Jesus was fully God & fully man" , which according to the bible is a doctrine of the antichrist. 2 John 4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world". If you believe "Jesus was fully God & fully man" prior to his resurrection you deny he truly came in the flesh - emptied himself of his divinity he did not have all God's powers, the fact that he died full flesh & blood human one that is fully God cannot and he did not resurrect himself God the Father did. I reiterate you cannot be both simultaneously. So which "key doctrine" do you follow again??? Oh yeah thats right "men's pseudo biblical doctrinal beliefs" that originate from the Antichrist.B)


John 20:28-29 (ESV)
[sup]28 [/sup]Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Yep, Jesus is God. Thomas knew.

Thats right Ducky, Thomas recognized Jesus was fully God after his resurrection lol....:p :)
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA

The 'church counsel' that formulated the "key doctrine" did not follow Sola Scriptura, it more closely resembles that of the Antichrist Doctrine & Prima Luther (hypocrite M.L. who did not abide by his S S movement - the bible as the only authority, but his own opinions). M.L. intentionally added & mistranslated many biblical scriptures to vindicate his unbiblical beliefs. And one of his opinions was that "Jesus was fully God & fully man" , which according to the bible is a doctrine of the antichrist. 2 John 4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world". If you believe "Jesus was fully God & fully man" prior to his resurrection you deny he truly came in the flesh - emptied himself of his divinity he did not have all God's powers, the fact that he died full flesh & blood human one that is fully God cannot and he did not resurrect himself God the Father did. I reiterate you cannot be both simultaneously. So which "key doctrine" do you follow again??? Oh yeah thats right "men's pseudo biblical doctrinal beliefs" that originate from the Antichrist.



Ludicrous.


I Jn 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

When John said the word "Christ" also about Jesus, that includes the Isaiah prophecy about The Messiah, named Immanuel, which means 'with us is God'.


Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
(KJV)

Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(KJV)

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV)

So even when Jesus was a Child, He was to be called 'God with us' (Emmanuel)? Yes.

That is Biblical proof that Jesus was fully God, even when born as a Child in the flesh.

And that's what John is declaring by including "Christ" in Jesus' Title. It makes his meaning that whosoever denies that God came in the flesh as Jesus The Christ, then that denier is not of God but an antichrist.

So, do you deny that God was born in the flesh as the Baby Jesus, even as a Child? If you do, that makes you an antichrist.
 

logabe

Active Member
Aug 28, 2008
880
47
28
66
1 revelation, 1 explanation, and 1 question …

Jesus was “fully God”
”… the Word (Jesus) was God. … And the Word became flesh …” (John 1:1,14).
”God was manifested in the flesh …” (1 Timothy 3:16).
But, there are several verses saying Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to be able to succeed
in His ministry (esp. to perform miracles), e.g. Luke 4:18, Luke 5:17, Hebrews 10:38.
These verses certainly seem to stand against Jesus being “fully God”.
However, Jesus had to depend on the Holy Spirit because:
The function of the Holy Spirit is to be the Work-Horse.
God the Father never performs any miracles.
God the Son never performs any miracles.
God the Holy Spirit is the only One who performs miracles.
The Father and the Son have different functions.

Jesus was “fully man”
Since Jesus was “fully God”, He could NOT possibly have had a sin nature.
Romans 8:3 indicates that Jesus looked like a normal (sinful) person:
“For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh,
God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin:
He condemned sin in the flesh …” (Romans 8:3).
Many commentaries affirm that this verse is NOT saying that Jesus had a sin nature.
Jesus had NO sin nature because of the Immaculate Conception and the virgin birth.
The Holy Spirit miraculously performed the function of being Jesus’ Father
(Matthew 1:20-25, Luke 1:26-35).

But, one question remains
How can Jesus be considered “fully man”, if He did not have man’s sin nature?[/
b]





John Zain... that's a very good question. I guess we have to go back
to the beginning to understand that man is paying for his father's sin.

God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the fruit they would surely die. We
all know what happened. Adam broke the Law or the Word of God...
which ever you want to call it and the creation has been paying for it
ever since.

Now, what exactly happened after the disobedience is where we as
Christians part. Most say we have a "sin nature", that Adam passed
down to us in our genes.

Did Adam's sin cause us to have sinful souls or mortal souls? This
question sounds purely academic, but it has an enormous effect
upon our lives. It is one of the most important questions in the Bible.

It is extremely important for us also to recognize that no man is born
with a "sinful soul" or a "sin nature." In Romans 5:12 Paul explains
this principle very clearly, though many church theologians have
missed it:

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into
the world, and death through sin, and so death spread
to all men, because [eph' ho, "on which"] all sinned-


Paul says here that sin first entered the world through Adam's sin.
But what did "all men" inherit from Adam? Was it Adam's SIN that
was passed down into all men? NO. It was death, the liability for
Adam's sin.

In other words, man did not inherit a sin nature from Adam. He
merely inherited the liability for Adam's sin. The reason we are
mortal is because we are liable for a sin that Adam committed.
And so we die, not as a result of our own sins, but as a result of
Adam's original sin. Sinful souls are not passed down from
generation to generation by procreation. The only thing passed
down is MORTALITY, or Death.

We are not mortal because we sin. We sin because we are
mortal. Which is the cause, and which is the result? Paul says
at the end of Romans 5:12 that "DEATH spread to all men," ON
WHICH we ourselves sin. Death is the cause; our personal sins
are committed as the result of death in us.

I said all of that to say this... Jesus was fully man for the purpose
of paying for our sins. No, he wasn't shapen in iniquity but, he was
still fully man. God can't die but, God (Jesus) prepared Himself a
body for the purpose of "LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE" for all of us.
Hebrews 10:5,

5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT
DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR
ME;


God looked upon this earth and found no man worthy to pay the sin
debt that Adam brought to the Creation... so God prepared a body as
the untimate sacrifice for humanity. Jesus as a man overcome the
trials and the tribulations that were set before him. He could have
called a legion of angels to come and protect Him but, he layed that
aside to do the will of the Spirit. Isa. 12:3,

3 "Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be
afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation."


He became our salvation. How? By becoming a man and overcoming
as a man by not using his Divinity but feeling the infirmities of his
people. Hebrews 2:9 says,

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while
lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the
suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so
that by the grace of God He might taste death for
everyone.
17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in
all things, so that He might become a merciful and
faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make
propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He
has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those
who are tempted.


God is invisible, but Jesus the "MAN" was the expressed image of
the invisible God. In other words, we can now see the Spirit in the
face of Jesus Christ "the MAN". The only way you will ever see God
is when you look @ "the MAN", that God prepare for His Purpose.

That MAN learned obedience through the things He suffered. Wait
a minute... that can't be right. Jesus could do anything He wanted to
do. Ahha, but He didn't, He did only what the Spirit showed Him. As
a Man, He got hungry and thirsty and tired, just like us. He was the
PERFECT MAN that overcame the weaknesses of the flesh and that
qualified Him as a Man to receive honor and glory. Isa. 42:13 says,

13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall
stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar;
he shall prevail against his enemies.


Yes... the Man received GLORY from the Spirit and that was a no no.
Isa.42:8,

8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I
not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.


I can go on and on but let's finish with Rev. 1:8,18,

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending,
saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to
come, the Almighty.


How many ALMIGHTYS do we have. Jesus said He's the ALMIGHTY.
Sounds like He became a Man to die.

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am
alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and
of death.


Case closed!


Logabe
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
Here we see still one more example of a human being that is probably well educated but has NO clue what the Bible is saying.
Unless the Holy Spirit shows it to you it will NEVER make sense to you.
I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened that you might come to know the hope of your calling.
People who make such ignorant posts as the opening one of this thread are the reason that Christianity is in such a mess especially in the US.
Okay, smart guy, why don't you comment on the 3 verses in Post #1?
And why don't you comment on Posts #40 and #56?
Throwing boulders at people is easy.
And are you really praying?
What a laugh.


yeah right, like the Pentecostals have a monoply on the Holy Spirit. They all fake speaking in toongues and push onenanother over. I've heard about people who would speak in tongues the same time every Sunday morning and you could set your watch by them.
Make no mistake, the Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been with the church millitant and that includes; sacramentals, evangelicals, contemplatives and even charismatics to a point (when they're not too busy faking it).
I'm not downplaying the Bible but there is more to Christianity than just scripture. If you disregard the Creeds, which aby the way are excellent forms of catechesis, then you run the risk of going into heretical territory.
Most don't fake ... some do.
All sin.
Some are ignorant. Etc.
But, it's nice that you're an expert on everything.

 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,778
113
52
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is also my understanding that Jesus was NOT "fully man"
because since he was "without sin", he did not have man's sin nature.

Adam and Eve were fully human before the Fall. They were created to love and they loved perfectly until one day.....
Paul calls Jesus the second Adam - He didn't sin because He loved perfectly.
Jesus was indeed fully human.
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
logabe,

Case closed? ... No, the Judge has not slammed down the gavel quite yet.
Haven't studied the Greek, but your Romans 5:12 is interesting.
Care to comment on this?

David explains why all humans are sinners … their inherited sin nature

“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.” (Psalm 51:5)
“The wicked (sons of men, verse 1) are estranged from the womb;
they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.” (Psalm 58:3)

David tells of the disasterous consequences
“The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men … They have all turned aside,
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 14:2-3)
God looks down from heaven upon the children of men … Every one of them has turned aside;
they have all become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.” (Psalm 53:2-3)
“… for in Your sight no one living is righteous.” (Psalm 143:2)

David was a man after God’s own heart
The LORD has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the LORD
has commanded him (David) to be commander over His people …” (1 Samuel 13:14)
Paul paraphrases Samuel: “I (God) have found David, the son of Jesse,
a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.” (Acts 13:22)
But, David proved to be a sinner like everyone else, being an adulterer and a murderer.

Solomon was the wisest and most influential king in Israel’s history
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (1 Kings 8:46)
“When they sin against You (for there is no one who does not sin) …” (2 Chronicles 6:36)
“Who can say, ‘I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin’?” (Proverbs 20:9)
“For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.” (Ecclesiastes 7:20)

Job was blameless and upright
This means he shunned evil and sin, but when he did slip, he immediately
and sincerely repented … which is the absolute best any human can do.
“Man who is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble. …
Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one!” (Job 14:1-4)
All humans have the sin nature, so how could any offspring not have the sin nature?
This “man who is born of woman” theme is repeated in Job 15:14-16 and Job 25:4.

Isaiah addresses Israel
For I knew that you (Israel) … were called a transgressor from the womb.” (Isaiah 48:8)
“For we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses
are like filthy rags (women’s menstral cloths)” (Isaiah 64:6)
All of the Israelites were born sinners … and everyone else is also.

Why didn’t Moses seem to have this revelation?
God gave Moses the all-important Ten Commandments at a critical time.
It was very understandable and necessary that Moses was not told about man’s hopeless
sin nature, and that it was totally impossible for the Israelites to follow God’s Law.
Moses had to be in the most positive, encouraging, and demanding mode possible
to give the Israelites the maximum chance to succeed at following God’s Law.
Yes, God gave them every opportunity to succeed, but they failed miserably.

The main reason for God giving the Law
God gave the Law to prove that it is totally impossible for man to please Him.
So, everyone is a sinner, and no one is acceptable to be with God for all of eternity.
Man needed God to intervene somehow, if anyone was to have any chance of Heaven.

Jews, Christians, Muslims … How can you not believe in original sin?
Muslims … how can you believe God's prophets were sinless?

Jesus said His 12 disciples were evil
“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children …” (Luke 11:13)
Do you think Jesus purposely chose evil men to be His disciples?
No, of course not … He is simply saying that all men are evil.

Jesus understood man’s disasterous spiritual condition
“Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His
name when they saw the signs which He did. But Jesus did not commit Himself to them,
because He knew all men, and had no need that anyone should tell Him about man,
for He knew what was in man.” (John 2:23-25)
Jesus explains: “I am He who searches the minds and hearts.” (Revelation 2:23)
“Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries,
fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.” (Matthew 15:19)
John 2 above occurred months before the Holy Spirit took Jesus’ place (John 14:16-26).

Paul (Jewish scholar) just repeated what his Old Covenant Scriptures say
“As it is written: ‘There is none righteous, no, not one … there is none who does good,
no, not one.’ ”[sup] [/sup](Romans 3:10-12). Paul is quoting here from Psalm 53:2-3.
“The Scripture has confined all under sin …” (Galatians 3:22)
“… through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin,
and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned …” (Romans 5:12)
“… through one man’s offense judgment came to all men,
resulting in condemnation … in Adam all die …” (1 Corinthians 15:18, 22)
And you (believer) He made alive, who were (spiritually) dead in trespasses and sins
… (we previously) were by nature children of (God’s) wrath,
just as the others (everyone else).” (Ephesians 2:1-3)

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
… If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him (God) a liar …” (1 John 1:8-10)
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(KJV)

Heb 4:15
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
(KJV)

2 Cor 5:21
21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.
(KJV)

Heb 7:26
26 For such an high priest became us, Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
(KJV)

1 Pet 2:21-22
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth:
(KJV)

I Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.
(KJV)

The abundance of New Testament testimony by Christ's Apostles is that Jesus Christ had NO sin.

The abundance of false testimony here in this thread that says Jesus Christ sinned like any other man, is testimony from the spirit of antichrist, and those will pay for their harsh words against Him.
 

Dulzurra

New Member
Jun 5, 2011
15
0
0

The 'church counsel' that formulated the "key doctrine" did not follow Sola Scriptura, it more closely resembles that of the Antichrist Doctrine & Prima Luther (hypocrite M.L. who did not abide by his S S movement - the bible as the only authority, but his own opinions). M.L. intentionally added & mistranslated many biblical scriptures to vindicate his unbiblical beliefs. And one of his opinions was that "Jesus was fully God & fully man" , which according to the bible is a doctrine of the antichrist. 2 John 4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world". If you believe "Jesus was fully God & fully man" prior to his resurrection you deny he truly came in the flesh - emptied himself of his divinity he did not have all God's powers, the fact that he died full flesh & blood human one that is fully God cannot and he did not resurrect himself God the Father did. I reiterate you cannot be both simultaneously. So which "key doctrine" do you follow again??? Oh yeah thats right "men's pseudo biblical doctrinal beliefs" that originate from the Antichrist.B)

My bad..Making a correction it should read 1John 4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist,....." Excluded "not".


 

Dulzurra

New Member
Jun 5, 2011
15
0
0


Ludicrous.


I Jn 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
(KJV)

When John said the word "Christ" also about Jesus, that includes the Isaiah prophecy about The Messiah, named Immanuel, which means 'with us is God'.


Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
(KJV)

Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(KJV)

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
(KJV)

So even when Jesus was a Child, He was to be called 'God with us' (Emmanuel)? Yes.

That is Biblical proof that Jesus was fully God, even when born as a Child in the flesh.

And that's what John is declaring by including "Christ" in Jesus' Title. It makes his meaning that whosoever denies that God came in the flesh as Jesus The Christ, then that denier is not of God but an antichrist.

So, do you deny that God was born in the flesh as the Baby Jesus, even as a Child? If you do, that makes you an antichrist.


Thanks for pointing out the first verse, sorry made an error with 1 John 4:3 already rectified that. No, I already expounded I believe Jesus was fully flesh & blood human prior to his resurrection. But as the Logos & after his resurrection he was fully God. I am not stating that he was not God while Jesus but that he was not fully God in divinity that is what you do not comprehend the distinction between immortal & mortal - infinite & finite - a dozen times over it is not logical to be both simultaneously. Go back & read my previous posts I have explained this already.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
I am not stating that he was not God while Jesus but that he was not fully God in divinity that is what you do not comprehend the distinction between immortal & mortal - infinite & finite - a dozen times over it is not logical to be both simultaneously. Go back & read my previous posts I have explained this already.



Oh, I think I understand the distinction of Jesus as fully God in the flesh pretty well. Know any man that has turned water into wine lately?
 

Angelina

Prayer Warrior
Staff member
Admin
Feb 4, 2011
37,098
15,042
113
New Zealand
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Hi logabe!

We are not mortal because we sin. We sin because we are mortal.

Interesting thoughts here logabe .. That would also mean that the Angels, who are not mortal, [Hebrews 1:7] cannot sin but we know that, that is not true.

Jude 1
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Sinful souls are not passed down from generation to generation by procreation. The only thing passed
down is MORTALITY, or Death.

If sin is not passed down from generation to generation as you say...then we would not be held accountable for that penalty...which is death.

Death is the cause; our personal sins are committed as the result of death in us.

I disagree dear brother, death is the penalty of sin, not the cause. [1 Corinthians 15:56] You have this backward...

The cause of sin is disobedience to Gods commands. Jesus came to pay a ransom for that penalty and became a sin offering on our behalf so that the power of sin [which is death through disobedience] no-longer has dominion over us.

Romans 6
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Jesus died on the cross for all sins [including the original sin] which holds us accountable until we receive Christ's free gift of salvation and eternal life.[Hebrews 9:26-28]

Amen Veteran!... interesting topic! :)

Blessings!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: aspen

Dulzurra

New Member
Jun 5, 2011
15
0
0


Oh, I think I understand the distinction of Jesus as fully God in the flesh pretty well. Know any man that has turned water into wine lately?


LOL According to your brainwashed deceived perception you do. Like I said I already covered this. You apparently can't grasp it, you should try thinking for yourself and not blindly follow the millions of deceived mainstream christians :rolleyes: .

How did the full human Jesus perform miracles prior to His resurrection? John 14:10 "I do not speak on My own authority; the Father who dwells in me does the works"...verifying that he did not have the direct powers but God the Father did (via the Holy Spirit). Also the bible indicates faith played a vital role in the miracles he performed Mark 9:23;11:22-24 " So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says...." Likewise the Discples also performed miracles, were they also "fully man & fully God" ??? Ahhh No!
In addition if Jesus as a human was fully God in divinity why did he need to say this "Or do you think that I cannot pray to My Father and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?".
Also if Jesus as a human was fully God how come he did not resurrect himself from the dead?
God the Father resurrected him & restored his full powers back to him & thats when he was fully God. He was fully God as the Logos at the beginning & then as Jesus after his resurrection.
Good try though :) ...lol. "
Test all things; hold fast to that which is good." 1 Thes 5:21
 

Templar81

New Member
Apr 14, 2010
854
17
0
UK
This is how it works:

God or our Godhead is in three persons; Father, Sona dn Holy Spirit. Now Jesus is the name that we use for the Son who was BEGOTTEN FO TEH FATHER BEFORE ALL WORLDS, THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS ARE MADE. OK , so Jesus who is the SON right? was part of the Trinity right from the beginning, before all worlds. Are you with me so far?

Therefore he was always God, then FOR US MEN AND OUR SALVATION HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, WAS INCARNATE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE VIRGIN MARY AND WAS MADE MAN. So what happens here is that God the SON becomes human and takes on full humanity but does not loose his full divinity. So what we have is God the SON not just taking on the guise of a human being but fully becoming one, but because the Trinity can never be broken, he cannot give up his divinity which cannot be compromised simply by him becoming human. This is why Jesus could never be half man/half God. What happened basically is that God came to us in the form of a man, but if he sacrificed himself merely in the image of a man then it wouldn't have saved us, he had to become fully human but if an ordinary man dies on a cross it can't save humanity can it? think about it, it can't? So the only way for Christ's sacrifice to eman anything is for fully man and fully God to be crucified, died buried and ressurrected.

What I want to basically emphasise is that only Jesus as fully God and fully man can reconcile us with God and that Jesus is our salvation by the authority of the Godhead within him, that is him. If Jesus was not fully God he would not have had the authoirty to save mankind by his dying and rising to life.
 

John Zain

Newbie trainee
Sep 16, 2010
750
32
0
San Diego, CA
Adam and Eve were fully human before the Fall. They were created to love and they loved perfectly until one day.....
Paul calls Jesus the second Adam - He didn't sin because He loved perfectly.
Jesus was indeed fully human.
Interesting.
Are you discounting the value of the Incarnation?
Are you discounting the fact that the Holy Spirit had to be Jesus' Father?
He had to be Jesus' father so Jesus would not have our sin nature.



Oh, I think I understand the distinction of Jesus as fully God in the flesh pretty well. Know any man that has turned water into wine lately?
C'mon, Veteran, speak to the idea that it was the Holy Spirit's function to perform the miracles.
The 3 verses in Post #1 surely point to this.

 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
LOL According to your brainwashed deceived perception you do. Like I said I already covered this. You apparently can't grasp it, you should try thinking for yourself and not blindly follow the millions of deceived mainstream christians :rolleyes: .

How did the full human Jesus perform miracles prior to His resurrection? John 14:10 "I do not speak on My own authority; the Father who dwells in me does the works"...verifying that he did not have the direct powers but God the Father did (via the Holy Spirit). Also the bible indicates faith played a vital role in the miracles he performed Mark 9:23;11:22-24 " So Jesus answered and said to them, "Have faith in God. For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be removed and be cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says...." Likewise the Discples also performed miracles, were they also "fully man & fully God" ??? Ahhh No!
In addition if Jesus as a human was fully God in divinity why did he need to say this "Or do you think that I cannot pray to My Father and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?".
Also if Jesus as a human was fully God how come he did not resurrect himself from the dead?
God the Father resurrected him & restored his full powers back to him & thats when he was fully God. He was fully God as the Logos at the beginning & then as Jesus after his resurrection.
Good try though :) ...lol. "
Test all things; hold fast to that which is good." 1 Thes 5:21



You simply don't understand what you say.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of My Father.
(KJV)

Who else born in the flesh has that Power to lay down their life, and then take it up again? None but God only. Even if you want to try and separate The Father from that you can't, because who else has The Father given that commandment to? None but Christ Jesus only. It's why Christ Jesus is God come in the flesh.


Here's a Scripture which probably caused the unbelieving Jews mental hardship, because they couldn't understand how Christ could be born in the flesh and still fully be God...

Isa 45:21-23
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside Me.
22 Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(KJV)

That last Isaiah 45:23 verse is about Christ Jesus, for He has been given that future judgment of all men. Did God say there every knee shall bow through His Son there? No. He said "unto Me", which means what? That is The Father equating Christ to Himself as God The Saviour.

Phil 2:10-11
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(KJV)

Obviously, unbelieving Jews today still struggle with Scripture like that, just as they do with Christ's Name Immanuel per Isaiah 7, and with Jesus declaring He is The "I AM" to them per John 8.


John 2:19
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(KJV)

Why would Jesus say He would raise it up and not point to The Father also in that? It's because Jesus Christ is The everlasting Father, The Mighty God, per Isaiah 9:6, God born in the flesh as The Saviour.


Phil 2:5-8
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
(KJV)

Christ Jesus being "in fashion as a man" was about His flesh attributes, not attributes of His Spirit That was "in the form of God" and "equal with God".

God The Son humbled Himself by being born in the form of flesh like us, and allowed His FLESH to be subject to death, experiencing death like us. But something special happened with death of His flesh body; He defeated death upon the cross for us by it (Heb.2:14). Can any other do that? No. Even His flesh was raised from the dead to retain the marks of His crucifixion to show this.

Titus 2:13-14
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(KJV)


I don't know if you realize it or not, but Mysticism (like what the 2nd century Gnostics held), believed that Jesus was only a highly spiritually developed human which The Christ Spirit worked through. They believed that anyone should be able to do what Jesus did simply by The Christ Spirit working through them too. That's the false idea that we 'each' can become our own Saviour, our own god. Jewish mysticism has that doctrine too, originating from the corruption of scribes and priests that crept in from the nations of Canaan. That's why the scribes and Pharisees refused to accept Jesus of Nazareth as God The Saviour, The Christ, Immanuel ("God with us"), The everlasting Father.

They are still under that old serpent's temptation that you can be your own god. That's why they must refuse Jesus of Nazareth as being God come in the flesh, and also the various OT Scriptures that testified about Christ being born in the flesh of woman.