Why I am leaving this forum

veteran · Jun 15, 2011

Shep said:
Darling I have not said whether I am pre trib or post trib...does not matter either way...and I don't believe I have post any other opinion on the rapture except to say it does not depend on us getting to heaven...nor posted any scripture for or against....I am simply stating that a brother has felt he is not welcome here by the treatment of his opinions....When someone has been made to feel what they hold in their heart on the Word of God is dear to them.... inferior or not worthy and made to feel like their peers are strongly suggesting their on a one way train to hell ...and for others to try and force their opinions on others and when they do not change their opinions...to suggest they are babes or do not understand God's word or in simply language ...made to feel as others are condemning them for their opinions....debating a topic is one thing...however to make one feel inferior or unwelcome is down right NASTY....

Most of the time anyone can say anything to me and I just turn the other cheek, does not bother me in the least..I know where I am in the Lord Jesus, I know who I am to Him, I know my authority...I know His Word....so yes most of the time it is laughable to me....But when others try to tear down a brother or sister in Christ...I happen to get very upset because it makes my heart hurt to see people that are suppose to love each other go out of their way to be cruel, nasty and then try to turn the tables as if butter would not melt in their mouth....To me they might know the Word of God, but sure as heck can not walk it....so instead of trying to tell me I don't know God's Word or trying to tell me I am claiming falseness or I am immature...sugar you should be asking God and someone else to forgive you....you nor anyone else on here has all the answers on God's Word....I don't ...you don't...but I can tell you one thing...we ALL can be wrong...You are not loved by God more than me nor are you loved less.....and sugar go back to the op and see this was about someone leaving not the rapture being true or false or before the tribulation or after....it is about being made to feel as he was going to hell for his opinions on the rapture...and sweetheart that ain't gonna happen ...........all our opinions will not get us in heaven...all our works will not get us to heaven...only one thing will....Accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior.... now you show me scripture where that is false....cause sugar you can not....

All you're showing is your taking sides with those who push the falsehood that they have been mistreated here for pushing the pre-trib rapture theory.

And yes, those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory are in danger, because there are many Scriptures given that show Christ's return and our gathering is after the tribulation, and not before it. It's the pointing out of THOSE Scriptures to folks here on the pre-trib rapture doctrine, and their inability to disprove them, which is what has got them upset and to instead turn to the falsehood that they've been mistreated. One would think that by their being shown that Scripture proof they would get back into God's Word for theirselves more instead of swelling up all the more for being proven wrong. And now they want to claim those who don't heed their pre-trib doctrines have been nasty to them?

rockytopva · Jun 15, 2011

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is nothing wrong with the doctrine of the rapture... How is it hurting people to daily await the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ?

veteran · Jun 15, 2011

Quite a few examples in God's Word of how He takes the mocker's own mocking, and turns it around against them. For you, it will probably be the same.

Lookin4wardtoHeaven · Jun 15, 2011

In closing, let me say that I do not consider myself anything but a student of the Word. I know that the only thing that I know for sure is that I don't know it all, and if you truly feel that I am wrong in my interpretation, then all I can ask you to do is to pray for me. I wish you all God's blessing. Know that I will not stop studying, I will not stop learning.

(((Joshaua)))

I will keep you in my prayers that God gives you wisdom and knowledge as you study His word and pray for us as well.

God bless you

rockytopva · Jun 15, 2011

veteran said:
Quite a few examples in God's Word of how He takes the mocker's own mocking, and turns it around against them. For you, it will probably be the same.

there is simply nothing wrong with awaiting the return of the Lord and Saviour to happen at any time and at any moment... Not only does the Word confirm this.. But the Spirit of God...

"How fine the manners are in this barbaric country, how beautiful the view of the city!" Petrarch of Cologne

During my grandparents days revivals would go on for weeks and into the wee hours of the morning. These people were truely filled with the Holy Spirit, worked hard Mo-Fr, went to town on Saturday (all dressed up), and went to church on Su. My granny use to tell me that my Grandfather would come home from revival around 3 AM and would have no trouble getting up at 6 AM for work. The Holy Ghost was in these people hearts like burning embers in a great furnace and they daily looked for their Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Show me a people that have their people ready for Jesus to return at any time and at any moment and I will show you a decent people... Shining with the light of Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. Our community was a coal mining community and our family ancestors were a German people who helped fight the revolutionary war. During one service the preacher was preaching on the rapture of the church and a visitor got up and ran out of the church. My granny said they never saw the likes of that man again! They loved one another and lived that crazy love type life Francis Chan talked about. If you want revival in your church begin with preparing them for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.Tell them, alright yawl, Jesus is coming at any moment and on any day. And have people start living that way and begin praying for a revival... It is really not that far away! Moving to VA as a teenager was like entering in a time capsule. I am thankful I viewed the beauty of that life!

Scripture accompanying this post....

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ - Titus 2:13

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:8

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, - 1 Peter 1:3

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:13

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.- 1 Thessalonians 5:2

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.- 1 Thessalonians 5:4

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 15:3

goodshepard55 · Jun 15, 2011

veteran said:
All you're showing is your taking sides with those who push the falsehood that they have been mistreated here for pushing the pre-trib rapture theory.

And yes, those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory are in danger, because there are many Scriptures given that show Christ's return and our gathering is after the tribulation, and not before it. It's the pointing out of THOSE Scriptures to folks here on the pre-trib rapture doctrine, and their inability to disprove them, which is what has got them upset and to instead turn to the falsehood that they've been mistreated. One would think that by their being shown that Scripture proof they would get back into God's Word for theirselves more instead of swelling up all the more for being proven wrong. And now they want to claim those who don't heed their pre-trib doctrines have been nasty to them?

See darling...that is what I have been talking about.....Treating others with disrespect.....I am taking sides with the treatment of others not their doctrine.....You still can not see that...you are blind to how trying to force your opinions on others is nasty and not patient and kind...if you would just try to use kindness and not be so condescending people might just listen....when you use large fonts, unless you are in need of them to see....it portrays...yelling....you probable read smaller font just fine.....when trying to get others to see the err of scripture, using normal fonts, posting scripture and why you feel that those scriptures are clear...pointing to the reasons you feel that way, and letting people post scriptures and say why they feel their way is call debating....you know that with loving fellowship and patiently explaining scripture to those that do not understand or have been taught one way, and you know it is wrong...gets better results...sometimes explaining things to someone more than once or ten times gets on our last nerve.... we lose our tempers, we resort to scare tactics...all that does is gets someones back up and makes them refuse to listen to you.....

I can't not count the number of times I have sat back and followed threads and searched out scripture and changed my mind....I can tell you that reading a topic and suddenly find someone that starts with....You are Wrong...I completely skip the post or stop reading a topic, because here it comes....I am right...you are wrong attitude that gets right up my nose..you could be so totally right and I agree with you up to that point.....but the condescending attitude invades the topic and causes strife, nastiness and turns off the mind to your point of view....do you know how many nonbelievers sit and read those and think...WOW...never want what they have ...they can't even be nice to each other.....just think of all those people that could be reading your post without opening a Bible, but are getting scriptures and clear statements to what they mean....and learning about Jesus and finding out that He loves them, because no matter how much we explain to someone who does not understand we are still showing a loving attitude....

When we make statements that imply, if you don't change your stance on this..you are going to hell...nonbelievers start to fear....they lose interest and turn away....we should post like a nonbeliever is reading it at all times...Use love, mercy, kindness and try to be peaceful and enjoy trying to educate people to the Truth and you will find that some change their minds even if it is later...they will come back and say to you...I sure am thankful you were so kind to me and kept posting those scriptures and your opinion...It finally hit home...Thank You....

So darling, be sweet and get the results....BTW...I stopped reading your post except when posted direct to me in all threads, dislike the large fonts, stop yelling at people for you do have great points on most topics...not totally correct all the time....but worth reading and studying to see if I might just change my opinion....You would be surprised at how much I agree with some of your points....Love ya anyway...:wub:

aspen · Jun 15, 2011

Gosh....

It is like feuding at a funeral.....

Can't you guys just say goodbye?

avoice · Jun 15, 2011

aspen said:
Gosh....

It is like feuding at a funeral.....

Can't you guys just say goodbye?

Amen to that Aspen

about those angels on the head of a pin you asked about earlier
are we talking the short chubby angels or the tall thin ones ?

goodshepard55 · Jun 15, 2011

aspen said:
Gosh....

It is like feuding at a funeral.....

Can't you guys just say goodbye?

So correct Aspen and thanks for the reminder...I am out of here...Love you guys

Angelina · Jun 30, 2011

I miss you JD!...:unsure:

Fortunately I know where you are....:lol:hehe!

and no....I would never tell them folks that I'm not a pre-tribber....I don't need the agro!

Shalom!

n2thelight · Jul 7, 2011

rockytopva said:
there is simply nothing wrong with awaiting the return of the Lord and Saviour to happen at any time and at any moment... Not only does the Word confirm this.. But the Spirit of God...

"How fine the manners are in this barbaric country, how beautiful the view of the city!" Petrarch of Cologne

During my grandparents days revivals would go on for weeks and into the wee hours of the morning. These people were truely filled with the Holy Spirit, worked hard Mo-Fr, went to town on Saturday (all dressed up), and went to church on Su. My granny use to tell me that my Grandfather would come home from revival around 3 AM and would have no trouble getting up at 6 AM for work. The Holy Ghost was in these people hearts like burning embers in a great furnace and they daily looked for their Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Show me a people that have their people ready for Jesus to return at any time and at any moment and I will show you a decent people... Shining with the light of Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit. Our community was a coal mining community and our family ancestors were a German people who helped fight the revolutionary war. During one service the preacher was preaching on the rapture of the church and a visitor got up and ran out of the church. My granny said they never saw the likes of that man again! They loved one another and lived that crazy love type life Francis Chan talked about. If you want revival in your church begin with preparing them for the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.Tell them, alright yawl, Jesus is coming at any moment and on any day. And have people start living that way and begin praying for a revival... It is really not that far away! Moving to VA as a teenager was like entering in a time capsule. I am thankful I viewed the beauty of that life!

Scripture accompanying this post....

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ - Titus 2:13

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. - 2 Timothy 4:8

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, - 1 Peter 1:3

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 25:13

Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.- 1 Thessalonians 5:2

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.- 1 Thessalonians 5:4

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10

If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 15:3

The problem is that, it can't happen at anytime.....

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

As for the thief,that's only for those in darkness

I Thessalonians 5:4
"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Charlie · Jul 7, 2011

n2thelight said:
The problem is that, it can't happen at anytime.....

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

As for the thief,that's only for those in darkness

I Thessalonians 5:4
"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

Charlie -- The 'thief on the cross' only proves that the souls of all believers go to heaven when their bodies die.

Jesus, after the 'falling away' will come for those who are alive and will be 'accounted worthy to stand before the Son of man', Luke 21:36

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to]stand before the Son of man.

If the soul of the thief on the cross is 'accounted worthy to obtain that world', his body will be resurrected, Luke 20:35-36,

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage; neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

God Bless you. Charlie .

ronmorgen · Jul 7, 2011

veteran said:
All you're showing is your taking sides with those who push the falsehood that they have been mistreated here for pushing the pre-trib rapture theory.

And yes, those who hold to the pre-trib rapture theory are in danger, because there are many Scriptures given that show Christ's return and our gathering is after the tribulation, and not before it. It's the pointing out of THOSE Scriptures to folks here on the pre-trib rapture doctrine, and their inability to disprove them, which is what has got them upset and to instead turn to the falsehood that they've been mistreated. One would think that by their being shown that Scripture proof they would get back into God's Word for theirselves more instead of swelling up all the more for being proven wrong. And now they want to claim those who don't heed their pre-trib doctrines have been nasty to them?

And that is where the problem is. Every time you are shown the truth logically, and reject it, you go further away from Jesus. If we as non pre-tribers are rejected by you pre-tribers, and we happen to be right, then you are rejecting the teaching of the group that does have the Holy Spirit teaching them. You are infact rejecting the Holy Spirit, and that is dangerous.

Hos 4:6
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2011

ronmorgen said:
And that is where the problem is. Every time you are shown the truth logically, and reject it, you go further away from Jesus. If we as non pre-tribers are rejected by you pre-tribers, and we happen to be right, then you are rejecting the teaching of the group that does have the Holy Spirit teaching them. You are infact rejecting the Holy Spirit, and that is dangerous.

Hos 4:6
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

The 'logical truth' is that the rapture/resurrection of those who are 'accounted worthy' can only take place pre-trib because the scripture pertaining to being 'accounted worthy to stand before the Son of man' , Luke 21:36, speak of escaping the things of the tribulation.

We are instructed, by Jesus, to pray always we will be accounted worthy.

You accuse pre-tribbers of rejecting the Holy Spirit. Those who do not pray they will be accounted worthy are rejecting Jesus Christ.

God Bless you. Charlie.

ronmorgen · Jul 7, 2011

Hi Charles,

As you probably know, because we've been in this ring before, I believe in the Catholic view, though I'm not Catholic. The second coming of Christ, the rapture, the ressurrection of the just and the unjust, and the great white thrown judgment all happen on the same day. The rapture being another way to describe the ressurrection of the saints that remain till that day. I am amillennial, that is, I believe the millennium of Revelation 20 is not literal. I believe we are in the millenium as Christ now rules from the heavenly places through the church. The church exersises authority in the world through the prayer of faith. This should motivate you to be ready, brother, because there are no second chances after judgment.

Charlie · Jul 7, 2011

ronmorgen said:
Hi Charles,

As you probably know, because we've been in this ring before, I believe in the Catholic view, though I'm not Catholic. The second coming of Christ, the rapture, the ressurrection of the just and the unjust, and the great white thrown judgment all happen on the same day. The rapture being another way to describe the ressurrection of the saints that remain till that day. I am amillennial, that is, I believe the millennium of Revelation 20 is not literal. I believe we are in the millenium as Christ now rules from the heavenly places through the church. The church exersises authority in the world through the prayer of faith. This should motivate you to be ready, brother, because there are no second chances after judgment.

Charlie -- Since you are not prepared to accept the truth of the scriptures, as written, then further discussion will be polntless, for both of us.

However, I would like to point out that Satan is still actively attacking believers so your 'Catholic view' is without merit.

God Bless you. Charlie.

ronmorgen · Jul 7, 2011

CharlesBaker said:
Charlie -- Since you are not prepared to accept the truth of the scriptures, as written, then further discussion will be polntless, for both of us.

However, I would like to point out that Satan is still actively attacking believers so your 'Catholic view' is without merit.

God Bless you. Charlie.

Since you are leaving, I will continue the subject with any others who are following it. Sorry I can't get through to you. Shalom.

We shouldn't think that what I said is true just because it is the Catholic view, but perhaps we could be willing to read the view and decide for ourselves on the basis of reason. http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp It's a long read. It lays out the a millennial view which has historically been the most popular except in the USA in the last few decades. I had doubts until I read this. Now I have no doubt.
"Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other… Mt 24

Charlie · Jul 8, 2011

ronmorgen said:
Since you are leaving, I will continue the subject with any others who are following it. Sorry I can't get through to you. Shalom.

We shouldn't think that what I said is true just because it is the Catholic view, but perhaps we could be willing to read the view and decide for ourselves on the basis of reason.

ronmorgen said:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp It's a long read. It lays out the a millennial view which has historically been the most popular except in the USA in the last few decades. I had doubts until I read this. Now I have no doubt.
"Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other… Mt 24

Charlie --I'm not leaving, my friend, and you did not reply to my statement about Satan.

Please note, in Matt.24:31, the 'elect' refers to those who will be taken off the earth, in the harvest of Rev. 14:14-15. They will be the people from every nation and every tribe who will enter the 1,000 years in their natural state and will repopulate the earth during that time.

By the way, David will be king over Israel during the 1,000 years, as per Jer. 30:9 and confirmed by Hosea 3:5, and those who will have been given incorruptible bodies, in the pre-trib resurrection/rapture, will rule and reign with the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, from heaven, during the 1,000 years. They will be the ones to whom Matt. 25:15-28 will apply.

God Bless you. Charlie.

ronmorgen · Jul 8, 2011

Oh, but you said our discussion was pointless, and I believe you are right, so I will bow out. May God bless you richly.

veteran · Jul 10, 2011

ronmorgen said:
And that is where the problem is. Every time you are shown the truth logically, and reject it, you go further away from Jesus. If we as non pre-tribers are rejected by you pre-tribers, and we happen to be right, then you are rejecting the teaching of the group that does have the Holy Spirit teaching them. You are infact rejecting the Holy Spirit, and that is dangerous.

Hos 4:6
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

Those who rely on the Pre-trib doctrine of men love their own skin more than they love our Lord Jesus. If that were not so they would listen to Him about the time of His return and our gathering AFTER the tribulation like He said. When He spoke of our not being tempted they thought He meant physical escape, and their false prophets keep feeding them the lie while taking their money.

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