License to Sin and Building a Strawman
- Thread starter RichardBurger
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The Law of Moses has passed away when Christ died on the cross on our behalf, for all those who believe in him by faith...the bible says:
Hebrews 8
[sup]7[/sup] For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
[sup]13[/sup] In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9
[sup]11[/sup] But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. [sup]12[/sup] Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. [sup]13[/sup] For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, [sup]14[/sup] how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? [sup]15[/sup] And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
The Mediator’s Death Necessary
[sup]16[/sup] For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [sup]17[/sup] For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. [sup]18[/sup] Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. [sup]19[/sup] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, [sup]20[/sup] saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.” [sup]21[/sup] Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. [sup]22[/sup] And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice
[sup]23[/sup] Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. [sup]24[/sup] For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; [sup]25[/sup] not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— [sup]26[/sup] He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. [sup]27[/sup] And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [sup]28[/sup] so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Galations 3
[sup]10[/sup] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” [sup]11[/sup] But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” [sup]12[/sup] Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”
[sup]13[/sup] Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), [sup]14[/sup] that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Acts 13
[sup]38[/sup] Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; [sup]39[/sup] and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. [sup]40[/sup] Beware therefore, lest what has been spoken in the prophets come upon you:
[sup]41[/sup] ‘ Behold, you despisers,
Marvel and perish!
For I work a work in your days,
A work which you will by no means believe,
Though one were to declare it to you.’”
Why would God send his only begotten Son, Jesus, our redeemer, to die on behalf of the world [John 3:16] and then return back to a shadow [which was pointing to his coming] Why would God re-install the Law of Moses? which is the law of sin and death......The bible says that each covenant was dedicated by blood...whose blood would be greater than the blood of Jesus so that the Law of Moses can be re-installed? :huh:
Your wrong brother....the Law of Moses will not come back into play again....
Shalom!
Thanks for your opinion that I am wrong but you really should get past the standard blended theology of the church.
God choose the Jews to be His people. All the prophecies in the O.T. was about how God would send a Messiah and that He would rule the earth from Israel.
But the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and God turned to the Gentlies.
However God will turn back to the Jews at His second coming. The following scripture point to that time as happening when the fullness of the Gentiles has been accomplished.
Luke 21:24
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
NKJV
Luke 21:29-31
29 Then He spoke to them a parable: "Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.
30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near.
31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.
NKJV
The above was said to the Jews and it was telling them that the promised kingdom would be near when they saw these things. One of the signs would be the budding again of the fig tree (Israel). This happened in 1948 when the nation of Israel (the fig tree) was reborn.
Acts 1:6-8
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
NKJV
In the above it is the Jewish Apostles that were asking about the Jewish kingdom.
Richard! Do you not know the church is made up of all believers in Christ? Now you are dividing His Body into 2 separate categories, how is that even possible? Those believing in Christ are all heirs, Christ was the firstfruit among many.
The Israelites were a shadow of things to come, the OT was all in the physical, now, we are in the spiritual.
Richard, could you please, define the gospel for us? I would really like to know what you think it is?
Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(KJV)
Even if Apostle Paul had not said that Christ's free gift by His grace was for "remission of sins that are past", the OSAS folks would still have a multitude of Scripture to contend with that commands us to repent for later sins afterwards. The first acceptance of Christ Jesus' atoning Work on the cross is for the remission of sins that we committed from that point past. That's why Jesus Christ also taught us the need for repentance of sins after that point. That's why He gave us The Lord's Prayer which He showed us how to ask for forgiveness of sins thereafter. THAT is ESTABLISHING our Faith in Jesus Christ and His atoning Work on the cross, not condemnation of it.
My point was, that even some folks on that OSAS doctrine do NOT actually believe the heart of it, because they STILL ask Jesus for forgiveness of later sins in repentance. Some of them even say The Lord's Prayer Jesus gave us, some of them daily when they recognize they committed a sin by The Holy Spirit showing them.
It's irony, because the devils who devised that false OSAS doctrine didn't intend believing Christians should do that! The devils who came up with that doctrine intended that they NEVER ask Christ's forgiveness for anything again, and not even to pay attention to later sin in their lives! Why would some of those on that false doctrine still repent if they truly believed that OSAS doctrine?
It's because of the multitude of Scripture evidence that shows we as Christians still need to repent of our later sins. Afterall, God said He would write His laws in our hearts and minds per The New Covenant, and by The Holy Spirit is 'how'. One who has The Holy Spirit will listen to Him; those who do not have The Holy Spirit will not listen to Him. If a believer refuses to listen to The Holy Spirit convictions, then that is a believer cutting theirself off, and they must default to walking by their... what? By their flesh, like Apostle Paul showed us in Galatians 5.
So now you admit we Christians still need to repent to Christ of later sins we may commit? Which is it?
Is taking Holy Communion like our Lord Jesus commanded us just a "ritual" per your view? Thinking that it is, is another evidence of the doctrine of devils you've agreed to. What about prayer, is that just a ritual too per your view? Should we stop praying too, since you believe Christ has already covered every sin we may commit in the future? So when we pray, we're just to ask The Lord to get us stuff for us, or give us stuff, right?
Apostle Paul is who taught that Faith in Christ's Blood is about the declared righteousness for the remission of sins past.
Our flesh will never... stop sinning, which is exactly WHY we need repentance to Christ thereafter to stay in the walk by The Spirit, and not by our flesh. One walk produces works of The Spirit, and the other walk produces works of the flesh, like Paul showed in Galatians 5. We please God when we stay in the walk by The Spirit, and not by our flesh. Paul taught that IF we walk by The Spirit, then the law is dead to us, because the works by The Spirit are not against the law. Paul was not speaking that to unbelievers, but to Christians, showing that our daily spiritual walk with Christ Jesus by The Holy Spirit is vital even after having believed on Him.
But the OSAS doctrine of devils promotes no inclination of any 'walk', but wrongly assumes there is no later spiritual walk. The heart of that false OSAS doctrine only depends upon first belief on Christ, and not continued belief thereafter, for to leave that walk by The Spirit IS to not continue walking in The Faith. By what we do after that first belief, we can still fall away and cut off The Holy Spirit from us.
I can see it now, one possessed comes to Christ Jesus and repents, and since he is forgiven of all sin he may ever commit, he goes out to walk by his flesh again and becomes filled with seven times more devils than he had before...
Matt 12:43-45
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Once the unclean spirit is cast out, that unclean spirit leaves seeking rest, finding none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then the unclean spirit determines to go back to the house (person) it was cast out of. And when the unclean spirit comes back, it finds that house EMPTY, SWEPT, AND GARNISHED, meaning ready to receive that unclean spirit once again.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
(KJV)
Then the unclean spirit takes with him seven other unclean spirits more wicked and they enter into that same house (person). The last state of that man ("house") is much worse than at the first.
The scriptures divide the Jews and the Gentiles but you don't see it. God has truned from the Jews until the time of the Gentiles has been fulfilled. I didn't say this, Paul did. But you don't seem to believe him. I have defined the gospel of grace many times. It is what God has done for us, not what we do for Him. I said this in other words in the OP. But you don't want to see it.
Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV
Romans 5:8-11
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
NKJV
Salvation is the work of God.
But this is not the subject of the OP. You are trying to refocus the thread away from the truths in the OP so you won't have to deal with them.
The Jews and the Gentile believers are only separated because the Jews do not recognize that Jesus is the Messiah who is to come.
2 Corinthians 3
[sup]7[/sup] But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, [sup]8[/sup] how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? [sup]9[/sup] For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. [sup]10[/sup] For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. [sup]11[/sup] For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
[sup]12[/sup] Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— [sup]13[/sup] unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. [sup]14[/sup] But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. [sup]15[/sup] But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. [sup]16[/sup] Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. [sup]17[/sup] Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. [sup]18[/sup] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord. glorious, what remains
When this veil is removed, they will become as we believers are...one with the savior.
Ephesians 2
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Christ Our Peace
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
Christ Our Cornerstone
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Shalom!
RO 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
RO 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
RO 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
RO 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
RO 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
RO 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
RO 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
RO 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
RO 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
RO 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
RO 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
RO 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
RO 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
RO 8:18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
RO 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
RO 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
RO 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
RO 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
RO 8:37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Tkinnie
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Great posts, what WE believe can sometimes go against what the BIBLE says. I usually look at the BIBLE like this. There is A B and C:
A: Is one opinion/belief of the bible
B: Is the BIBLE as it is meant to be
C: IS another opinion/belief of the bible
This illustrates how we can have 2 diff opinions or more on what god said, but the fact of the matter is he said that.
We are MAN, we are imperfect... God says scripture interprets scripture, not imperfect man.
Its nice to see how people post scriptures to back-up what they are saying, but do it in context, and one scripture in context means the entire bible. You cant have the new Testament without the old, and vice versa. This also means you cant pick one scripture out of the new testament without considering the origins of it. You cannot understand Jesus' principals and teachings without STUDYING the entire word. His word is whole. Some people focus on the old, and some on the new. Christ is the author of both.
We have to take everything into consideration. When talking about the law, search every scripture that talks about the law and study them to fully understand the meaning, because to the naked eye, it would look like a contradiction. W
When god makes anything, its perfect period. God cannot lie, and god does not change. God created the TEN commandments.
When Christ makes anything its perfect, period. Christ cannot lie, and christ does not change (HE IS GOD) Christ created the ten commandments.
With that being said. God the father said that the law is FOREVER Binding.
With that being said, Christ said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
The SIN in man kept us from keeping the TEN commandment, now im not talking about the "Law of moses" These are 2 different things, IDK why people like to combine these things, this is why many are confused, MOSES did not write the BIG TEN, GOD did, its GODS law, however MOSES DID set up ordinances that he wrote and place outside of the arc of the covenant. These are the rituals and things paul talks about that are done away with, READ leviticus, this is the stuff WE are DONE WITH. BUT GODS LAW GOES ON FOREVER.
Think about it... If the 10 commandments were gone, then we wouldn't have anything to judge us for sin. That makes sense. If there was no 10 commandments then jesus would not need to come back, we would be in a free do whatever world. That's not the case.
[font="Arial][size="3"][/size][/font]
A: Is one opinion/belief of the bible
B: Is the BIBLE as it is meant to be
C: IS another opinion/belief of the bible
This illustrates how we can have 2 diff opinions or more on what god said, but the fact of the matter is he said that.
We are MAN, we are imperfect... God says scripture interprets scripture, not imperfect man.
Its nice to see how people post scriptures to back-up what they are saying, but do it in context, and one scripture in context means the entire bible. You cant have the new Testament without the old, and vice versa. This also means you cant pick one scripture out of the new testament without considering the origins of it. You cannot understand Jesus' principals and teachings without STUDYING the entire word. His word is whole. Some people focus on the old, and some on the new. Christ is the author of both.
We have to take everything into consideration. When talking about the law, search every scripture that talks about the law and study them to fully understand the meaning, because to the naked eye, it would look like a contradiction. W
When god makes anything, its perfect period. God cannot lie, and god does not change. God created the TEN commandments.
When Christ makes anything its perfect, period. Christ cannot lie, and christ does not change (HE IS GOD) Christ created the ten commandments.
With that being said. God the father said that the law is FOREVER Binding.
With that being said, Christ said he came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
The SIN in man kept us from keeping the TEN commandment, now im not talking about the "Law of moses" These are 2 different things, IDK why people like to combine these things, this is why many are confused, MOSES did not write the BIG TEN, GOD did, its GODS law, however MOSES DID set up ordinances that he wrote and place outside of the arc of the covenant. These are the rituals and things paul talks about that are done away with, READ leviticus, this is the stuff WE are DONE WITH. BUT GODS LAW GOES ON FOREVER.
Think about it... If the 10 commandments were gone, then we wouldn't have anything to judge us for sin. That makes sense. If there was no 10 commandments then jesus would not need to come back, we would be in a free do whatever world. That's not the case.
[font="Arial][size="3"][/size][/font]
When I study the scriptures I look at them as God's program for reconciling man to Himself. God took a people (Jews) for His own to set up a dispensation of law starting with the children of Abraham. God made promises to Abraham and his children that He (God) would send a king to rule over them. From Abraham to Christ all the prophecies were about Jesus. God has taught us through the first 4 books on the N.T. that Jesus is the promised King. The Apostles had about 40 years to convice the Jews Jesus was their King but they still rejected Him so God destroyed the Temple and sent Paul to the Gentiles with the gospel of grace (salvation as a free gift from God).
Why did John write his book???
John 20:30-31
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
NKJV
But the Jews did not believe him.
God had a hidden secondary purpose for the death of Jesus on the cross. From Jesus, and the preaching of the "Kingdom of Heaven," to this time in which we now live is a new dispensation and it was not mentioned in the O.T. it was not mentioned in the first 4 books of the N.T. nor was it mentioned in the Jewish writings of the 12. This new gospel was ""hidden in God"" and revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus, Acts 9:3-6 and Eph 3:8-9.
1 Cor 2:7-10 (NKJ)
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him."
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
I don't mean this to you but these discussions with some are becoming too contentious so I am going to take a break. See you later.
That attempt to divide Jews and Gentiles is part of the false modernist views of Dispensationalism (from C.R. Stam, et al). They don't treat even The Four Gospel Books as meant for Gentile believers, but Paul's Epistles only as applying to Gentiles. Several here on this forum that support the false Pre-trib rapture theory hold that view.
The O.T. was written to the Jews. In it there were many prophesies of the coming of a Jewish Messiah that would be their king.
The First 4 books of the N.T. were written to show how Jesus fulfilled all that was written about Him in the O.T.
John 20:30-31
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
NKJV
But the Jews rejected Jesus and God HAS TEMPORARILY turned to the Gentiles untill the time of the Gentiles end.
Luke 21:24
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
NKJV
Since salvation could not be through the Jews any longer God sent Paul with the gospel that was "HIDDEN IN GOD," The gospel of grace.
The grace gospel is not found in the O.T. nor in the first 4 books of the N.T. Nor is it found in any of the writting of the 12 Apostles. If it had been it would not have been hidden.
You can rant and rave all you wish to but this is what I believe and have been taugh by the Holy Spirit.
YES! I believe that those that believe the gospel of grace and have placed their faith, trust, and confidence in Jesus' shed blood on the cross will not be put to shame.
Romans 10:9-12
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
NKJV
I believe that anyone, both Jews and greek (Gentile) are saved in the same way TODAY under the gospel of grace so your charge that I have left the Jews out is false.
Am I to assume brother, that you've never really studied the Old Testament prophets to any real depth?
That's what your statement causes me to think, because Apostle Paul's preaching of the 'mystery' that Salvation would also go to the Gentiles was preached from the Old Testament prophets. That's where Paul was pulling from. And to cast off those OT prophecies would be to cast off Paul's preaching to the Gentiles. Obviously then, not everything God gave through the OT writers was only to, nor only about Israel. That's why the Gentiles need to study the Old Testament Books too.
That's true, but it's also true that the Four Gospels ARE the MAIN WITNESS of The Gospel of Jesus Christ TO ALL PEOPLES, not just to Israel alone.
Per my Bible, quite a number of believers were among the Jews in the Apostle's days. Paul even taught in Rom.11:1-5 that God had even preserved a remnant of Israel to Himself within The Gospel. The Book of Acts has many details about Jews that converted to Christ Jesus.
So just WHO really lost Christ's Salvatiion, for the believers of Israel certainly DID NOT?
That's where that false doctrine you've been taught falls by the wayside again, because it tries to separate ALL of Israel away from Christ's Salvation, which is a lie of course. I wonder how Messianic Jews here that have believed on Christ Jesus feel about that?
That certainly is a bunch of hogwash. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is to ALL peoples, and the idea of God's Grace CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM IT, not when It is preached to Israelites, nor when preached to Gentiles. You do greatly err in not understanding The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
But what was it that was actually 'hidden' which Paul spoke of? It was the idea that God's Grace through His Salvation Plan by Christ Jesus, the very SAME Salvation He planned from the beginning, first given to Israel, was to also go to the Gentiles, and that many Gentiles would ALSO believe. That His Grace only began with Paul and Gentile believers is such a false doctrine, I must assign it to another one of the 'doctrines of the devil'.
Paul said this about a remnant of the seed of Israel...
Rom 11:4-6
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(KJV)
Yet, what you have been preaching is a false separation between Jews and Gentiles, for that is exactly what declaring two separate gospels, one for each group, does! You're listening to another 'spirit', not The Holy Spirit, when you push the false dual gospel idea.
You GOT that false dual gospel idea from heeding men's traditions, for several others here on the forum have that same idea as you about two gospels, and that doctrine never came into being until the 1800's with John Darby and the Pre-trib rapture theory. Both of those doctrines are un-Biblical.
You believe as you wish and I will believe what I have been taught by the Holy Spirit.
I will believe God's Word as written through the Power of The Holy Spirit, thank you.
You only think you do.
You do not believe James 1:1 was written to the Jews. You think it was written to the Gentile church and it doesn't say that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Paul address many of his Epistles specifically to peoples living in his day?
Rom 1:7
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
Well, you weren't in Rome then, so that would leave you out.
1 Cor 1:2
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
(KJV)
You weren't there at Corinth either, so that wouldn't apply to you either.
Shall I keep going with this?
I'm certain others here get the idea, even if you don't.
It's like Apostle Paul said to Timothy...
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)
discipleHelovestoo
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- May 14, 2011
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Mark 10:15 KJVR
(15) Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
it's all too easy to forget this Truth when debating doctrines.
little children quickly learn to do what their parents tell them, when they tell them; and most of that learning is based on how they receive good things from their parents (love, encouragement, fellowship) when they follow their parents' leading. Yes, bad things (such as a rebuke) can influence a child to do what their parents tell them to do when they their parents tell them to do it, but only because it robs the little child of receiving the good things their parents always want to give them (love, encouragement, fellowship).
so for me, it's all about being led by the Holy Spirit.
the hard part is recognizing that leading. knowing that the Holy Spirit will not lead me to do something contrary to the written word as revealed to me by the Holy Spirit inspires me to study the written word - but not as a historian or to become an expert in ancient languages (although such things can help and do have their place in studying scripture),
the old testament law is beneficial to the reborn Christian as a guide to recognizing the leading of the Holy Spirit; not a set of rules to follow on one's own leading, occasionally checking with God to see if we are 'living right'.
people don't need a 'license to sin' - they already have one - free will. it's not actions that separate people from God, it's the arrogance of choosing to be led by self instead of choosing to be led by God - the battle is won or lost in the mind, and actions are not a reliable measure of how that battle is going in someone's mind.
what is a reliable measure of how that mental battle is going is what comes out of the mouth. those whose words focus on actions are loosing the battle in their mind - self is winning. those whose words focus on believing the best about God are winning the battle in their minds. the words we speak reliably indicate how the battle is progressing in our minds:
Matthew 12:34-37 KJVR
(34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
(35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
(36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
(37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
it's important to me to avoid setting a standard with my words that i can't keep; so i try not to focus on actions, but to focus on recognizing that thought-by-thought leading of the Holy Spirit and acting on that leading without delay. if my words focus on actions, i will eventually be condemned by my words. if my words focus on fellowship with God through faith in His undeserved favor to me, i will be justified by my words.
no one can 'stop sinning' (stop wrong actions) by focusing on actions, because by the time actions are considered the corresponding battle in the mind has already been won or lost; being led by the Holy Spirit on a thought-by-thought basis is the only way to change actions - to 'stop that sinning'.
GLY!!!
(15) Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
it's all too easy to forget this Truth when debating doctrines.
little children quickly learn to do what their parents tell them, when they tell them; and most of that learning is based on how they receive good things from their parents (love, encouragement, fellowship) when they follow their parents' leading. Yes, bad things (such as a rebuke) can influence a child to do what their parents tell them to do when they their parents tell them to do it, but only because it robs the little child of receiving the good things their parents always want to give them (love, encouragement, fellowship).
so for me, it's all about being led by the Holy Spirit.
the hard part is recognizing that leading. knowing that the Holy Spirit will not lead me to do something contrary to the written word as revealed to me by the Holy Spirit inspires me to study the written word - but not as a historian or to become an expert in ancient languages (although such things can help and do have their place in studying scripture),
the old testament law is beneficial to the reborn Christian as a guide to recognizing the leading of the Holy Spirit; not a set of rules to follow on one's own leading, occasionally checking with God to see if we are 'living right'.
people don't need a 'license to sin' - they already have one - free will. it's not actions that separate people from God, it's the arrogance of choosing to be led by self instead of choosing to be led by God - the battle is won or lost in the mind, and actions are not a reliable measure of how that battle is going in someone's mind.
what is a reliable measure of how that mental battle is going is what comes out of the mouth. those whose words focus on actions are loosing the battle in their mind - self is winning. those whose words focus on believing the best about God are winning the battle in their minds. the words we speak reliably indicate how the battle is progressing in our minds:
Matthew 12:34-37 KJVR
(34) O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
(35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
(36) But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
(37) For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
it's important to me to avoid setting a standard with my words that i can't keep; so i try not to focus on actions, but to focus on recognizing that thought-by-thought leading of the Holy Spirit and acting on that leading without delay. if my words focus on actions, i will eventually be condemned by my words. if my words focus on fellowship with God through faith in His undeserved favor to me, i will be justified by my words.
no one can 'stop sinning' (stop wrong actions) by focusing on actions, because by the time actions are considered the corresponding battle in the mind has already been won or lost; being led by the Holy Spirit on a thought-by-thought basis is the only way to change actions - to 'stop that sinning'.
GLY!!!
Apples are not oranges.
Galatians 2:7-10
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.
NKJV
Seems to me that the scriptures are telling us that the 12 Aopstles did not go to the Gentiles.
No I wasn't in Rome but Paul was addressing the Gentile church in Rome and PauI is the Apostle to the Gentiles. I am a Gentile. No where does my Bible say that the 12 Apostles ever went to the Gentiles. They were to get Israel to believe in Jesus and they couldn't so how could they get the Gentiles to believe. Under the gospel of "the Kingdom at Hand" it was to be to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles.
Shall I keep going with this. I doubt that anything I say will ever be believed by those that do not believe that having faith in the shed blood of Jesus is all that is needed for salvation. The theology of man blends law with grace and they can not see any difference in them.
But this thread is about having a license to sin. Does your comment add to the subject as stated in the OP or is it just an attempt to prove that something I said is wrong?
Most people today believe that they must have good works in order to be saved, However, My Bible teaches that we are saved by faith in His shed blood to make us righteous before God.
Romans 3:21-27
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
NKJV
The only righteousness we have is the righteousness that God has assigned to us "IN CHRIST."
Romans 5:8-11
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
NKJV
We will be saved by HIS LIFE. We have already recieved reconciliation, not sometime in the future.
Ephesians 1:4-10
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth — in Him.
NKJV
Colossians 1:13-14
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
NKJV
Not of works so that no man can boast that he saves his self by his works. It is by His grace that we have this wonderful salvation.
Now it will be said that I am against good works by that is not true. I am against the theology that says were must do good works to prove our faith. That was said by James who was under the law. I will ""NOT"" teach that others have to be sinless when I know I am not sinless. I am no hypocrite.
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