From sinner to saint

Bible Highlighter · Feb 25, 2022

David H. said:
Some would say we go from sinner to saint as soon as we are born again, I say it is a process, and a journey, a path every believer must walk in their own unique way.

When we are born again, we are Justified, declared righteous, imputed the righteousness of Christ upon us, thus we are instantly sanctified in the eyes of God. We are given the "earnest" which literally means a down payment of the Holy Ghost, and what we do with this "earnest" from this point on determines our place in the Kingdom.

A New born believer, though made righteous is yet to be Holy. this is the process, the journey we are all on. This theological terms is known as progressive sanctification. This is the work of the Holy Spirit which is given in earnest working in us to cleanse us from the inside out, making our motives and heart holy and not self-serving and proud.

Thus a a born again believer is made righteous by the blood of the Lamb, and made Holy by the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. The big hinderance to the latter of these things is the belief that the born again believer is already a saint, I am here to tell you they are not.... They are counted among the faithful, but they remain on the journey to becoming saints from the sinners we were all born as.

Do not let Satan hinder your journey from sinner to saint by being satisfied with merely being righteous. None of us are perfect, but we are being made perfect as the love of God is perfected in us.

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. (John 17:23)

As for your view on what a saint is:

Ephesians 2:16-19 says,
16 “And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”

Clearly Ephesians 2:16-17 is tying in Provisional Atonement verses in how believers are first saved by God's grace mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9 (which is the 1st aspect of salvation in our being saved initially by God's grace without works). Verse 18 mentions how through Jesus both the Jew and Gentile both have access by one Spirit unto God the Father. Verse 19 says we (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners to God, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and the household of God. Nothing is said here about how we had to reach near the end of our Sanctification in order to be called a saint one day.

Ephesians 2:13 says,

“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”

Romans 3:25 says,
“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

So we are brought near to God by the blood of Christ, and Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) by our having faith in His blood (for salvation). This is being saved by God's grace.

For Romans 3:26 says,
“To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”

For through Jesus we have access by one Spirit unto God the Father and have become fellow citizens with the saints.

The word “with” the saints is defined in the 1913 Webster's as “among.”

Source:
With | Definition of With by Webster's Online Dictionary

Among can be defined as (According to Websters):

Conjoined, or associated with, or making part of the number of; in the number or class of.

Source:
Among | Definition of Among by Webster's Online Dictionary

So Ephesians 2:19 is saying that we are fellow citizens associated with the saints or we are fellow citizens making a part of the number of the saints, etcetera. How so?

Here is another witness:

1 Corinthians 6:1-3 says,
1 “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

Here Paul talks to the Corinthian believer(s) or the Corinthian church. Please take note that the Corinthian believers were in great error. Yet, Paul says that we should not go to unbelieving courts to resolve a dispute between brethren but we should go before the saints to resolve the matter instead. Paul then says to the Corinthian reader or the church at Corinth: “Know you-all not that you shall judge angels?” Yet, in verse 2 Paul says that the saints shall judge the world. Paul switches to speaking to the Corinthian church (you) and asks if they are unworthy to judge the smallest matters. Paul is going back and forth between you (referring to the Corinthian church who were in various errors) and how they are to judge their own brethren instead of going to unbelieving courts and comparing it the concept of the saints judging. In short, Paul is calling them saints. Granted, folks seem to fail to realize that one can be in the Kingdom and yet later cast out, though.

For Matthew 13:41-42 says:

“41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Just as those Israelites who were taken out of captivity of Egypt did not all make into the promised land.
So it's not just how you start that matters alone, but it is how you finish, too.

But the point I wanted to address with you is that a saint is not in the way you suggest it, brother.
A saint is anyone who is brought near to God by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Granted, we must believe in His blood for salvation (Romans 3:25), but we must also walk in the light as He is in the light for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us, too (1 John 1:7).
Only by doing so... can we as saints have the assurance that we will truly be with God for all eternity.
For we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Bible Highlighter · Feb 25, 2022

David H. said:
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

While this most likely may not be what you are saying, many Christians today would quote John 1:17 to me as meaning we can be lawless or that we can abide in sin (on some level), and yet still be saved. However, I believe they would be mistaken for thinking this way. Take for example the apostle Paul (the most famous of all grace preachers of the New Testament).

Paul says he appeared to be without Law to those who are without Law but then he clarifies how he is not without the Law of God seeing he is under the laws of Christ.

“To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.” (1 Corinthians 9:21).

Also, many Christians today fail to understand that Paul was fighting against a heresy of which I call, "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); A certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

For if a person thought they had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved (instead of being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, the gospel, and His mercy), then they would be making a Work of the Law (the Torah or Old Law) the basis of their salvation instead of God's grace. The entrance gate and the foundation of salvation would be circumcision or a law, or work.

This is why Paul spoke in the way he did in Ephesians 2:8-9. He is not referring to all forms of works that were taught to us by the Lord Jesus Himself and His followers after we are saved by God’s grace.

For whenever Paul spoke of the words “law” and “works” in generic terms in a negative light, he was referring to the 613 Laws of Moses under the Old Covenant (or Old Testament) that does not apply as a contract or binding covenant anymore. Paul also is condemning Law ALONE Salvationism, or Works ALONE Salvationism, as well. If this was not the case, then he would be contradicting even himself (See: Titus 1:16, Romans 8:13, 1 Timothy 6:3-4, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

As for John 1:17 saying: the Law came by Moses and grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

I don't believe there was no grace during the time of the law of Moses. After the Fall: Grace, and faithfulness has been the theme of the Bible from Genesis all the way to Revelation. For even King David who was under the Law sought forgiveness with the Lord (seeking God's grace in Psalms 51). What I believe John is saying is in reference to helping the Jew who was stuck under a form of salvation that was all about Works ALONE Salvationism via by the 613 Laws of Moses with little to no grace. Grace still existed even in the Old Covenant and with the Law of Moses, but the Jews distorted that into being Works or Law Alone-ism (with no grace). Truly grace did come more fully with Jesus Christ in that the Jews did not have to keep sacrificing animals to atone for the same past sins year after year. Jesus would forever forgive sin if we come to Him (Who is our Heavenly high priest). Jesus truly offers a better way. Jesus is the Truth that comes to set the captives free not only in forgiving past sin, but setting them free from being a slave to sin.

For there is nothing that can transform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or families). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
(2 Corinthians 5:17).

You said:
Thanks for the comments, and welcome to the forum.

Thanks.

May God bless you greatly.

David H. · Feb 25, 2022

stunnedbygrace said:
There are two parts here I don’t understand. The first is the repetition “imputed righteousness.” Honestly, the phrase could almost make me jump out of my own skin when I hear it repeated because I have never understood it despite trying very hard. Everything I read is that God counts a man as having done what is right/righteous if he trusts God and believes what He says and is honest. We read, and he believed God and it was counted as righteousness. And we read about the sinner praying to the God he believed forgave sins and how he walked away counted righteous/justified. So where does this “imputed righteousness” come from when the examples we are given just say the men were honest and trusted and believed what God has said.(It’s true that no man can come to God unless God first draws him and it’s true that his trust/faith was a small seed/gift so he can’t boast.)

So if in both old and new testaments we read it is by a mans trust in God that God says he has done what is right, where does “imputed righteousness” come in? I understand growing in trust/learning about righteousness, and I understand learning the obedience of complete and unshakable trust. I further understand Christ’s blood covers our sins of unbelief in areas and mistrust in areas as we grow in trust. I just dont understand where imputed righteousness comes from. Where did men find that in Gods word?

The following explains this well enough, even though Got Questions is a "Calvinist" sponsored sight.

Why does Christ’s righteousness need to be imputed to us? | GotQuestions.org

Wynona · Feb 25, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
As for your view on what a saint is:

Ephesians 2:16-19 says,
16 “And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”

Clearly Ephesians 2:16-17 is tying in Provisional Atonement verses in how believers are first saved by God's grace mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9 (which is the 1st aspect of salvation in our being saved initially by God's grace without works). Verse 18 mentions how through Jesus both the Jew and Gentile both have access by one Spirit unto God the Father. Verse 19 says we (Gentiles) are no more strangers and foreigners to God, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and the household of God. Nothing is said here about how we had to reach near the end of our Sanctification in order to be called a saint one day.

Ephesians 2:13 says,

“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”

Romans 3:25 says,
“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

So we are brought near to God by the blood of Christ, and Christ is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) by our having faith in His blood (for salvation). This is being saved by God's grace.

For Romans 3:26 says,
“To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”

For through Jesus we have access by one Spirit unto God the Father and have become fellow citizens with the saints.

The word “with” the saints is defined in the 1913 Webster's as “among.”

Source:
With | Definition of With by Webster's Online Dictionary

Among can be defined as (According to Websters):

Conjoined, or associated with, or making part of the number of; in the number or class of.

Source:
Among | Definition of Among by Webster's Online Dictionary

So Ephesians 2:19 is saying that we are fellow citizens associated with the saints or we are fellow citizens making a part of the number of the saints, etcetera. How so?

Here is another witness:

1 Corinthians 6:1-3 says,
1 “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”

Here Paul talks to the Corinthian believer(s) or the Corinthian church. Please take note that the Corinthian believers were in great error. Yet, Paul says that we should not go to unbelieving courts to resolve a dispute between brethren but we should go before the saints to resolve the matter instead. Paul then says to the Corinthian reader or the church at Corinth: “Know you-all not that you shall judge angels?” Yet, in verse 2 Paul says that the saints shall judge the world. Paul switches to speaking to the Corinthian church (you) and asks if they are unworthy to judge the smallest matters. Paul is going back and forth between you (referring to the Corinthian church who were in various errors) and how they are to judge their own brethren instead of going to unbelieving courts and comparing it the concept of the saints judging. In short, Paul is calling them saints. Granted, folks seem to fail to realize that one can be in the Kingdom and yet later cast out, though.

For Matthew 13:41-42 says:

“41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Just as those Israelites who were taken out of captivity of Egypt did not all make into the promised land.
So it's not just how you start that matters alone, but it is how you finish, too.

But the point I wanted to address with you is that a saint is not in the way you suggest it, brother.
A saint is anyone who is brought near to God by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Granted, we must believe in His blood for salvation (Romans 3:25), but we must also walk in the light as He is in the light for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us, too (1 John 1:7).
Only by doing so... can we as saints have the assurance that we will truly be with God for all eternity.
For we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

Respectfully, I disagree with the OP. Christians are saints, not sinners. I feel like @Bible Highlighter explained this very well.

I feel like the distinction is important. God doesn't hear sinners.

John 9:31 says

"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

To be a saint is to be set apart.

"The word "saint" is derived from a Greek verb (hagiazo [aJgiavzw]) whose basic meaning is "to set apart, " "sanctify, " or "make holy." --- Saints Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

We are all to be set apart from the world.

2nd Corinthians 6:17

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Bible Highlighter · Feb 25, 2022

Wynona said:
Respectfully, I disagree with the OP. Christians are saints, not sinners. I feel like @Bible Highlighter explained this very well.

I feel like the distinction is important. God doesn't hear sinners.

John 9:31 says

"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."

To be a saint is to be set apart.

"The word "saint" is derived from a Greek verb (hagiazo [aJgiavzw]) whose basic meaning is "to set apart, " "sanctify, " or "make holy." --- Saints Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

We are all to be set apart from the world.

2nd Corinthians 6:17

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Thank you for the kind words. May the Lord Jesus get all the glory.

Side Note:

Love John 9:31. Thank you for sharing it today.

Blessings be unto you in the Lord.

David H. · Feb 25, 2022

Wynona said:
Respectfully, I disagree with the OP. Christians are saints, not sinners.

I did not say "Christians are sinners", But that is where all humans start out as sinners needing the grace of God.

Once you are saved you are counted among the faithful.... a saint is one of the faithful who has been called to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, which is to give their testimony (martyria) of the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

Simply put many are called to be saints, (All of the faithful) few are chosen (By God's predestination). We are all on the same journey to sainthood, But those who are chosen get the "accelerated course" in the wilderness and through many trials and afflictions (The fiery trial).

The time of the saints is coming and if you do not understand this distinction, you will not know what is happening... we are at the very precipice of these things if you read Luke 21, we are at the point of wars and rumors of wars (Ukraine, Taiwan, etc.) Then read Luke 21:12-19 and you will see the testimony given by the saints which causes Satan to be cast down to earth... (Revelation 12:10-11)

God Bless

David H. · Feb 25, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
While this most likely may not be what you are saying, many Christians today would quote John 1:17 to me as meaning we can be lawless or that we can abide in sin (on some level), and yet still be saved. However, I believe they would be mistaken for thinking this way. Take for example the apostle Paul (the most famous of all grace preachers of the New Testament).

I was quoting this verse to give credence to your "three cords" analogy.

Bible Highlighter said:
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;”

No Need to go to websters to define "with" The word implies a joining of two distinct groups under the moniker of fellow citizens in the household of God. There is a reason why the KJV translators used "with" instead of "among" here, and it is because the KJV translators were of the Church of England which believes in the distinguishing between the faithful and the saints.

Paul Himself counted himself "least among the saints"..... if he was least, you think the base carnal Christian is greater than Paul?

If you truly are non denominationalist, then you will consider what I am saying open mindedly, but if you are pushing a denominational interpretation, you will not be able to process this.

Jesus is the LORD.

Search

Search

From sinner to saint

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member

David H.

Well-Known Member

Wynona

Well-Known Member

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member

David H.

Well-Known Member

David H.

Well-Known Member

Similar threads